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- [00:00]
Anthony Covert
This program contains mature language and themes that may not be suitable for all listeners. Discretion is advised.
- [00:17]
Red
Dear Steven, you're only 10 and you feel like you're already on your own, but you're not. There's not always someone home when you need them, but there's a lot of people who care about and want the best for you. You can always lean on Nicole and cousin Justin. They're not always around either, but they do anything for you. You're going to understand Mom a lot more when you get older and realize the struggle she's dealing with on a daily basis. It's hard being addicted, trying to keep your together, make money and be a single mom as well. But she's doing the best she knows how to do. Right now. Dad and Gramps are waiting for the day you make up your mind and decide you want to be in Ohio full time. I know it's hard to leave everything behind in Washington. Mom, friends, Justin, Joel and the rest of the family. But it's the best thing for you. You'll still be there when you come back. The Tacoma house is too crazy for you right now and some bad shit is going to happen if you don't get out of there. Dad, Grandma and Gramps, Pam and Sue can't wait for you to make the decision, but they don't want to make it for you. Even though you're only 10, you're already trying drugs and alcohol and acting like a shithead half the time. So Dad's going to be super hard on you when you fuck up, but it's because he feels like he's got to make up for the time he missed out on while you were in Washington. He's trying to make you become the best man you can be, but you're not going to be a man for a long time, trust me. He's not happy with the way his life turned out either. His and Mom's marriage didn't work out and it killed off all their plans in their lives. But they love us more than anything else, even if they have a fucked up way of showing it. Like when mom disappears for days at a time and dad kicks our ass for getting out of line after that. Get ready because you're going to start understanding why dealing with addiction is so hard. Because it's going to kick your ass too. It's going to beat you down and fuck your life up more than anything ever will. It's the hardest thing you'll ever have to deal with. It's something you'll have to worry about for the rest of your life. But you're stronger than you could ever imagine, and you're going to figure that out soon. Drugs and alcohol will alter the trajectory of everything you do, but in the end, you'll be a better person because of it. I've heard it said that God gives His strongest soldiers the hardest battles, and you're going to battle for the rest.
- [02:29]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Of your days on Earth.
- [02:31]
Red
Get used to being in small spaces.
- [02:33]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Because you're going to be locked up.
- [02:34]
Red
For most of your adult life, but you're going to meet some of the.
- [02:37]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Best people you'll ever meet, people that.
- [02:39]
Red
Will be with you and a part.
- [02:40]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Of your life forever. You're also going to build some of.
- [02:43]
Red
The best relationships you've ever had with family and true friends while incarcerated. It's going to teach you why mental and emotional connections are so important and why just calling or sending an email to check up and ask how their day is going is going to make such a difference in how their week can turn out. After that, you're going to build actual, real bonds with the people you love.
- [03:03]
Stephen Carl Edwards
So I know it seems like there's.
- [03:04]
Red
No light at the end of the tunnel, but I promise things are going to be so bright in your future, you're going to need sunglasses. So get ready for a crazy fucking ride, buddy.
- [03:23]
Vic Chopra
Welcome back to Concrete Mama, the podcast. Hello, I'm Anthony Covert and I'll be your guide this week as we take a deeper look into the life of your favorite historian, Stephen Edwards, AKA Red. Week to week, Red has given you the insider's experience into the history of Washington State Penitentiary, and if I must say so, he has a knack for it. This week he bares his heart and gives you a deeper look into the story of his life leading up to his incarceration. There's something special about Red that I've always admired, and I was able to spot it right away and continuously throughout the course of our friendship. Red has a very unique heart and his love for people is more genuine than most that I have met. It doesn't matter what you look like or where you come from, Red is always willing to give someone a shot and make them feel welcomed. Red and I share a very common trait and that is our love for food for the incarcerated. It is a big thing to be willing to share that food with anyone. I remember working with Red at the Correctional Industries Box plant and one day we had permission to make a spread. A spread is a meal that people contribute to and cook and eat Together that day, we settled on nachos and ended up making a lot more food than we could eat. My suggestion was to save it and have it for lunch the next day. But Red, on the other hand, wanted to bless people that couldn't afford to be a part of any spread that day. So we dished out plates and handed them out to the guys that he wanted to share it with. The amount of gratitude those men had was priceless. In this place, people don't always expect to see these acts of kindness. Over the years of our friendship, I have learned that I can count on Red for just about anything and I am honored to call him my friend. As you listen to his story and learn more about him, one thing you'll see is his love for his family. It is such a beautiful thing, but he can tell it better than I can. So without further ado, I am excited for you to continue to get to know my friend and co host Red.
- [05:41]
Stephen Carl Edwards
My real name is Stephen Carl Edwards. Most people know me as Red nowadays, especially if you knew me from the streets of Tacoma or the penitentiary. Knew me back in the 90s in Tacoma or Northwest Ohio. You probably called me Steve O. I was raised to believe in God and I was very close with my dad's parents growing up. Grandma Laureen was a nurse my whole life and helped deliver me when I was a baby. Gramps was a fixture in the Baptist.
- [06:06]
Red
Church for 40 years.
- [06:07]
Stephen Carl Edwards
He was a preacher and ran the First Baptist Church in Antwerp, Ohio for the last 20 years of his life. He passed away during the last year of my first prison sentence in 2011. My mom's side of the family is from Tacoma. They lived there all my life. But my mom was actually born in Berlin, Germany. Her parents were in military. Her dad, William or Grandpa Tejan was a mechanic in the army and her mom Rose was a nurse for the American side during World War II. So later in life they never lived too far from Fort Lewis McCor they always stayed around Pierce County. Now my dad Tim was a Ranger in the army in the 80s and that's how he met my mom, Anita. She already had my sister Nicole from another relationship. But when they met they fell in love and my dad adopted Nicole and shortly my mom was pregnant with me. So I think I was actually conceived in Washington. But after my mom got pregnant they decided to move back to Northwest Ohio so my gramps could marry them in the church and they stayed together for about, you know, two to four years after that. I'm not for sure I'd have to ask her after I was born. But from what I understand, drugs, alcohol and trust issues caused them to become distant. So mom snatched me up and brought me back to Tacoma. She actually left my sister with my dad and his family in Ohio probably so she could finish school. You know, she was in school at the time. And they eventually figured out an agreement where if I was going to school in Washington, then I'd go back to Ohio for the summers. And, you know, it was always like that. Vice versa. My life was always really stable in Ohio and then a little off the hook when I was in Washington, you know, I was always the youngest and the only white kid in my friend group. I became pretty good at fighting pretty quick and became really good at knowing when my mom and her friends, her, you know, all of her hustler friends were in a good mood because I would hit them up one by one for some money, for snacks or whatever. Sometimes it was cash and sometimes it was food stamps. You know, we learned how to turn the stamps into cash, if anybody remembers them days. You know, for those that don't know, you could buy something at the store for 25 cents with the dollar stamp and get the quarters back. And if you did that enough, man, you could. You could make enough money to go buy McDonald's or a 10 sack of weed or whatever you wanted to do, you know. I was around 10 years old when I started smoking weed and drinking, you know, Sis was six years older than me, so I paid close attention to everything she was doing, too, especially when it came to clothes, music and that type of shit, you know. Her and my cousin Justin were like my big homies back then, man. He lived right around the corner and he was in. In the streets, you know, he was gang banging, hustling and robbing. But if I ever needed anything, man, they. They had my. You know, my mom was selling crank back then to, you know, to pay for shit. My sister and her boyfriend at the time took a pound. I don't know how what they did with it, but they fucked it off. Didn't have nothing to show for it. So I remembered that there was going to be a problem, but I didn't know what was going to happen, you know, because I kept hearing stuff. I could hear them arguing about it, you know. So one morning, me and my friend David used to stay over there a lot. We're eating cereal, we're watching cartoons or whatever was on TV that morning, and I heard a knock at the door. I said, come in, because I was Kind of a lazy ass kid back then, you know. Come in and the knock just got louder. I got pissed and went to the, went and answered the door and there was a.357 in my face, man. It was the first time I ever had a gun in my face. But it wouldn't be the last. It was my mom's so called friends, right? They want to know where the was at and where, where my mom was. They told me to never open the door unless you know who it is or it might be the last time, you know. And that's something at 13 that I'll never forget. The main thing I remember is my homeboy David smiling at me because he thought it was a joke. And I assured him that these dudes weren't playing, you know. You know, it was a weird thing for me back then and I could tell this was the, it was the first time he had a pistol on him too, you know, even though he was a few years older than me, you know. They held us in the house for a couple hours until my mom and her boyfriend ensured them that they'd get their money back and they finally left. But soon after, within a day, me, my sister and one of her girlfriends that had something to do with the missing dope were on a plane back to Ohio to live with my dad and my grandparents. And it was no shit, it was, it was night and day, you know, we went from basically going to school whenever we wanted and doing whatever we wanted to going to school every day, mandatory. We had to be home at a certain time, we had to ask to go places. It was crazy. You know, at the same time, it was really cool to see my dad and my grandparents full time, not just in the summer. My dad worked six, sometimes times seven days a week back to, you know, back then to take care of us. We always had what we needed. But we were around gramps and Grandma Laureen a lot, you know, we went to church every Sunday and we actually liked it most of the time, man. Still to this day, the most famous and most larger than life person I've ever met is and always will be my gramps James Edwards. He was six four, about £300, man loved to eat.
- [11:20]
Red
He, he was a big guy, you.
- [11:22]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Know, but everywhere he went, everyone knew him. It was like driving around with a, with a damn movie star, you know, I don't know if you've ever been to church and the dude preaching is.
- [11:31]
Red
Super boring and dull and you're just.
- [11:33]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Trying to get out of there, you know. But Gramps was the complete opposite. He had such a presence and such a great aura about himself. He could speak and deliver a message like no one had ever seen and have never seen to this day. I remember thinking that I couldn't believe I was related to this guy. He's the sole reason that I believe in God to this day. The way he talked about God and the conviction that he had for someone that he'd never actually seen in real life, you know, I just, I knew that if he was this passionate about God, then I would be too. On the other side, school was completely different for me in Ohio as well. I went from being the only white kid in my friend group to now living in a place where there was only one black family in the whole town. Everyone was white. It was really different for me. Of course I talked and dressed like, you know, I was from the hood still. So I got in a couple fights, but not anything like when I was in Washington, you know, I was the kid that always had the weed. I would snatch my dad's roaches out of the ashtray out of his truck or get some weed for my sister or friends. So I soon became the weed man. And I ended up going through phases with acid, mushrooms, ecstasy, cocaine, meth, everything you could think of. And then I ran into pain pills. Even though I did all these other drugs when I was a kid, nothing ever took a hold of me or called me like pain pills, you know, not only was it a mental addiction, but it was physical, you know, I started chasing this high non stop after that, bro. In the 10th grade, I met a lady that sold oxycontin, pay her bills, she broke her back and she got them every month at the same time. She'd give me 120, 20 milligra oxys and 24040 milligram oxys at 5 and $10 a piece every month at the same time. And this relationship went on for about three years. In 11th grade, I started going to Vantage Career center in Vanward, Ohio. It was a trade school for all the surrounding counties. And since I never really liked school much, I figured that this was the perfect opportunity to learn how to do something with my hands. Welding was my favorite thing to do at the time. And I spent hours upon hours burning up welding rods in class and just in the boom smooth constantly. I really did like working with my hands. And for the first time I was good at something, you know, other than selling drugs. It felt like I was in a whole different world. When I was welding Working with metal, it's something I'm still passionate about today, 20 years later. I've had a few different jobs over the years, welding. And I've worked in two different metal shops in Doc.
- [14:08]
Red
One here at Walla Walla and the.
- [14:10]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Other at OCC and Forks. Also going to a bigger school with more people, I was able to really move every pill. Of course, the ones I didn't keep for myself, you know, because I was a drug addict. This is where I met my first serious girlfriend. She was from van work, knew all the kids that did drugs. Even though she didn't get high, she just drank. But she could drink anyone I knew under the table, man. I mean, I'm talking. We drank heavy. She helped me move these pills and even stuck around after she graduated, you know, we were actually in love, man. It was my first, my first love. It was my first, my first thing, man. Our addictions would soon ruin that, though. I had to start selling coke and meth and whatever else I could get my hands on just to pay bills and keep her habits going. She was working at the time, but I had trouble showing up and keeping jobs myself. The lady I was getting the pills from went to prison in 2005 for trying to bring her son drugs to a prison. It was bad. It was the first time that I ever had opiate withdrawals. First time I was ever dope sick, you know, I didn't know what I was going to do. So I heard about a methadone clinic in Fort Wayne, Indiana. I started going there to get my fix and feel better.
- [15:16]
Red
And this worked for me for about.
- [15:18]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Nine months until I rolled her car one morning driving up there at 5am and I almost died, man. I rolled it like four or five times. She ended up leaving me after this whole thing happened because, you know, she had enough. And that was the last straw. I couldn't keep up with bills, my habits, none of that on my own. So I made the choice to get on the Greyhound, man. And I came back, came back to Washington. I immediately jumped right into the dope and crime game here. I learned how to hustle, steal to make money by breaking into cars, mailboxing. People would pay money or drugs for stolen merchandise or stolen checks and credit cards. I ended up going to prison in 08, man, for drugs, a gun, and 15 counts of identity theft. I was forced to be off drugs for the first time since I'd started getting high 11 years ago. And it was great. I felt like I was finally growing up. I like going to Work and just being free from drugs and actually being able to think clear headed. After doing 43 months on a 60 month sentence, I got out and went straight to work. I got a few different jobs through laborworks and ended up at Western Wood Preserving in Sumner, driving forklift. I think I felt like since I was doing the right thing for the first time that it was okay to start drinking and smoking weed after work because it was legal and that's what my co workers and friends were doing at the time. But that led to me getting into a fight, leaving a bar on 6th Avenue, Tacoma 1 one weekend. You know, after it was over, my left foot and my right thumb were broke and I knew I had to go to the hospital. So I went to St. Joe's that night and was prescribed oxycodone for the pain. It only took about a week and I was right back to being addicted. I wasn't able to go to work because of my foot and thumb. I had no way to pay bills. So I went and met with a friend of mine and got some drugs, you know, figure I'm just gonna hustle. I started with weed, eventually started selling meth and oxy again, which in turn you know, led me to doing meth again as well. So here I am with a full time habit, multiple drugs. I quit going to work all together even after I heal because all I wanted to do was get high and be in the streets. You know, I got, I got addicted to being in the streets as well, man, and just a fast life. But you know, I couldn't make enough money selling drugs because I, I, you know, I'm getting high, I'm doing everything right. I had people I owed money to, I had to do something. I started stealing again, man. I'd steal from stores, out of cars, whatever I could do to get drugs. I started using heroin because the oxy was too expensive and didn't work like it used to. Which is what led me to where I am today. You know, one morning I've been drinking all day, getting high and you know, I was super dope sick. Left a friend's house, was going to go back to my sister's. Me and my, my chick at the time, you know, we're walking down the street and I seen a phone in this car, in this work truck on the side of the road, man, and you know, no one's around, the windows are down, I'm like, I gotta have it, you know, So I, I grabbed it and I turned up the, the street. The owner Came running out of his house to chase me down. Well, I felt like I needed his property more than him at the time, you know, I mean, I was gone. I didn't, you know, I wasn't thinking straight. You know, I fire, I fire a couple rounds into the air. I had a pistol on me, of course, you know, just to try to scare him. It didn't work. He kept following me, you know, I turned around again, I shot a couple more at the ground, you know, I said, man, if you don't quit following me, I'm shoot you. I thought I got away. I thought, you know, I went to my sister's house and I thought we were good. But, you know, house got surrounded, the cops came, you know, I ended up doing like 15 months in county fighting my case, man. They charged me with the assault. One rob, one berg, one firearm too, man, you know, I went to trial and I lost. The judge gave me a below the standard sentence range of 60 months for assault one. But since I'd been caught with a gun for the second time, she said she had to give me 120amonth gun enhancement for each charge. I left with a 35 year sentence and no possible way to get any time back. Every month was to be served consecutive with no possible good time. At first, I kind of figured my life was over and that I'd grow old in prison. Man, I basically accepted that this would be my life. That only lasted for a few months though, because, you know, I started getting back in touch with friends and family that I became disconnected with during my addiction and people that would help me see the another side of things. My first prison sentence, I figured that doing the time that I'd been given was punishment enough for the crimes. But now that I'm older and I'm able to see the other side of things, I started thinking about the other people that have been affected by what I'd done, All the people and their families affected by the identity theft I committed, the people whose cars I'd broken into, the personal belongings I'd stolen that may not have only had a dollar value to them, but also sentimental value, right? And you know, the store owners I stole from, whose businesses and livelihoods could have suffered because of me, the lives and families that I may have ruined, selling drugs to people that might not have been able to get drugs if they didn't get them from me.
- [20:54]
Red
And then most of all, my victim.
- [20:56]
Stephen Carl Edwards
You know, in my case, and all the people in the families that were in the neighborhood that day, I thought it was a good idea to fire a gun in a residential neighborhood to scare off the man that I just stolen from. Because all I cared about was getting away and getting high one more time. I feel disgusted with myself now that I think back. I can't believe that I would have done that. Because the person that I am today is not anything like the person that I was back then, you know, And I'm not. It's not the same person I am when I'm strung out and using, you know, the person that I am today knows better and feels for people more than that. Everybody in that neighborhood, you know, they could have. They could have suffered from anxiety, post traumatic stress, depression, loss of sleep, panic attacks, you know, just from the choices and decisions that I made that day. I can never change what happened. But if I am ever given another chance, I'd love to be involved in something to bring awareness to mental health issues. A crime victim, Something to help recovering addicts find positive things to do with their time. I know being physically active and working out helped me tremendously. Also something similar for at risk you youth to help keep them from drugs and gangs and to give them something positive like sports to do in their spare time. Like I said before, I know I can't change what I've done in the past, but maybe I can help change someone else's future.
- [22:19]
Vic Chopra
Wow, what a story. So far, it's clear that Red's love for his family runs deep. And although I can't personally relate to Red's experience with addiction, I have no many people who have struggled with it, including our co host, Vic. There are many similarities between Vic and Red's stories and journeys with addiction. And the two of them recently sat down together to chat about them.
- [22:44]
Anthony Covert
How you doing today, Red?
- [22:46]
Red
I'm doing good, man. How are you?
- [22:47]
Anthony Covert
I'm good. I'm good. I think this is the first time you and I have sat down together, just the two of us, to have a conversation.
- [22:54]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Yeah, man.
- [22:54]
Red
I think. I don't think we've ever had the chance, just the two of us. And I'm looking forward to it.
- [22:58]
Anthony Covert
I want to talk a little bit about, you know, I was listening to your story as the audience is listening to it right now, throughout this episode. And what was crazy is there were so many parallels I felt between our two stories. Right. Especially with family dynamics. And I think we both are super close with our families and both of us have a lot of support from our families. Right. I definitely had a lot of support from my mom throughout my Incarceration. Incarceration. And I think you're having something similar, right, during your. Your incarceration right now, correct?
- [23:31]
Red
Absolutely. Since coming to prison, I've built a better relationship with all my family members and close friends as well. I'm blessed to have them with me right now. I had some. A lot of good times and bad times as a kid, and. And for the bad times, it's not something that I've ever really held against any of them. You know what I mean? Being locked up, up the first. And this time, we've always just got closer and closer.
- [23:55]
Anthony Covert
That's awesome, because, you know, I think a lot of people that are incarcerated can't really say the same thing, Right?
- [24:00]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Absolutely. It's.
- [24:01]
Red
It's kind of sad, man, to see that people don't have their families with them while they're in here.
- [24:06]
Anthony Covert
I think that's really beautiful to hear you talk about rebuilding those relationships that we fracture during our active addiction. Right. Because addiction, in many cases, I think both of ours as examples, it destroys pretty much everything in your life, including, you know, relationships with family members, with loved ones, with friends. And what I think is just so beautiful about your story is that through getting sober, through your incarceration, you are able to reach back out from behind the wall and start to mend those broken relationships, which is exactly what I did. I think there's a lot of work we have to do on ourselves first to forgive ourselves and understand the gravity of what we've done.
- [24:49]
Red
The easiest way to explain it is, like, you know, me and my sister Nicole are really close, and there's one thing that we never really agree upon, and that's, like, now that I'm an adult, I've forgiven my parents for, like, any kind of shitty things that happen to us when we were kids. And my sister can't really do that. You know what I mean? She still holds grudges with them, and she kind of gets mad at me sometimes about, like, well, why aren't you harder on them about stuff? You know? And I think, like, the difference between us is when I was a kid, I had her a lot of times, like, when my parents weren't around and she didn't have that. You know what I mean? Like, she didn't have someone to always, like, be there for her when they weren't. And so she had it a little bit harder than me. But, you know, I always say, like, I wouldn't be the person I am today if I didn't go through the stuff I didn't go through when I was a kid, you know what I mean? That's something that me and her have conversations about. But I definitely think, like, going through the stuff I went through, I became a better person because of it. You know?
- [25:45]
Anthony Covert
What I found interesting, too, was, I think for both of us, when pain pills got brought into the equation, that's when I think we both spiraled. We can both admit, like, we were both just basically in full blown addiction. That's when I kept secrets. That's when I was hiding it because I liked it so much.
- [26:00]
Red
And yeah, bro, it was over after that. Like, so I actually got introduced to pain pills and stuff. There was some dudes, like, in the neighborhood that were also older than me, you know, they were having pain pills, Percocets, Vicodins, that type of stuff. And once I started taking those, talk about, like, doing drugs and being able to hide it. I mean, you could just have a couple in your pocket, and then, boom, take them. And then now you're high the rest of the day, and no one sees you smoking. No one sees you, like, snorting nothing. So it was so much easier to hide and also so much easier to get because, I mean, like, we used to get them from people's parents, medicine cabinets or whatever, you know, it's what led me to prison both times. It's what ruined, like, relationships. It's an actual physical and mental addiction.
- [26:46]
Anthony Covert
Oh, 100.
- [26:47]
Vic Chopra
Yeah.
- [26:48]
Anthony Covert
I was over. Like, it was just like, this feels too good. I want to do this every day. And it is. It's a. It's a physical and a mental addiction and emotional addiction, too, right? Because it just makes everything feel numb but good, you know? One thing I grappled with after I got arrested was all the damage I had caused and trying to forgive myself for doing that. And also, like, living my life in a way that would make amends for all the people I hurt. Right? Because it's not the kind of person I want it to be. I never wanted to cause harm to.
- [27:15]
Red
Anybody when I was, like, stealing.
- [27:17]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Yeah.
- [27:17]
Red
I mean, all this stuff was for my addiction. You know what I mean? It was stuff that I would never normally do, but I just knew that I had to have another hustle to feed my addiction, you know, Same thing.
- [27:28]
Anthony Covert
I found myself doing things I never thought I would do, like stealing mail, running other people's credit reports, and then spending money on their credit accounts and then getting all this merchandise to then sell. And then all of it just goes into feeding the addiction. Because then what do we do when we make all this money, we go and we buy drugs, we get high, and then we go to the casino and then we gamble the rest of it away. And I was like, what, what was that, all of that for anyway? Like, you. We just made, you know, five, six, seven thousand dollars in one day and we. Then we just blow it all, like, well, this isn't tenable anyway. I remember, I just look at myself some days in the mirror. I'd have these moments of lucidity, like, what are you doing? But I just couldn't stop.
- [28:05]
Red
Exactly. And another thing, that I was never a gambler until I started doing drugs and like committing crimes. And it was all these things would go together somehow.
- [28:14]
Anthony Covert
Oh, my God. Exactly. I was never a gambler ever. And like my ex all of a sudden was like, decides to pick up a slot machine habit and a gambling habit. And then I was like, well, it. If we're gonna be here at the casino, all right, I'll just, you know.
- [28:26]
Red
And I know for a fact there's like hundreds of thousands of people that are going to hear this and be like, that's exactly what I was doing. Or that's exactly what. You know what I mean? You know, I wasn't someone that was like stealing from my family or stuff like that, but I had a lot of people that love me and I would just like completely ig them or like disappear because I didn't want them to see me in the state that I was in. As long as I had hid stuff before, like, I couldn't hide it anymore. Like, I was full blown addiction mode and all I cared about was myself at the time. Like, of course I loved my family and my friends and stuff, and I still cared about him, but I was like, the addiction always came first, you.
- [29:04]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Know, and so I have a lot.
- [29:05]
Red
Of regret and I feel really terrible about that still. But the best thing I can do is kind of just like try to mend those relationships as best as I can. And I think I've been doing a pretty good job of it and. And I want to continue to do that. But it wasn't until I went to prison the first time, and my family and my close friends would still be there for me. Even though when I was out there for however long in my addiction, living like a modern day pirate, basically, you know, I wasn't there for them. But now here I am and I need help and they're. They're there to help me. They're there to be for. There for me, you know, and that's when I started realizing, like. Like, I need to change. I need to figure out what I want to do with the rest of my life and quit hurting people that love me.
- [29:55]
Vic Chopra
Thank you, Vic and Red, for sharing such personal and vulnerable parts of yourselves and for our listeners both out there in the free world and for those of you who are doing time on the inside. Addiction is a powerful force that can deeply impact individuals, families, and communities. Almost everyone has been touched by addiction, and maybe you're silently suffering with it right now. We want you to know that you're not alone. You can break the cycle and reach out for help. You don't have to figure it out on your own. There are a lot of resources and people on the other side of it that are ready and willing to help. We have resources for you in the show notes, and you can also write to us here at the show. Now let's head back to the studio and hear the rest of Red's story and conversation with Damar.
- [30:49]
Damar
So a young man growing up in Tacoma, in that household. Take us there.
- [30:54]
Stephen Carl Edwards
You know, we had a big family. There was always people around. Whether it was family members, friends of my sisters, friends of mine, friends of my mom's. People were always around. People were always partying. It was always either a party and.
- [31:08]
Red
Everybody'S happy or people are fighting.
- [31:10]
Stephen Carl Edwards
I just got used to that. Them type of emotions were just normal for me back then. You know, I mean, I thought it was either one or the other. There was never, like a middle ground. You know, I didn't get that until I. I moved to Ohio. But it wasn't all bad. You know, it wasn't. And it wasn't all good, but, you know, it made me the person I am today. But there was love with, you know, me, my mom, my sister. Like I said, we have, you know, we have a big family. My mom's got a ton of brothers and sisters, so they would be around, and it was love, but, you know, they were all. They were all getting high, so it was, you know, you never really knew what you were gonna get.
- [31:43]
Damar
What was your relationship like with your mom?
- [31:45]
Stephen Carl Edwards
My mom had a. She had an old school Monte Carlo. I want to say it was like a 79. The bigger body.
- [31:53]
Damar
Is it like the one you got on your. On your sale?
- [31:55]
Stephen Carl Edwards
It's kind of like that.
- [31:56]
Damar
All in your sale right now.
- [31:57]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Kind of like the one that. It's kind of like that one. But it was a hard top, and it was.
- [32:03]
Red
It was silver.
- [32:03]
Stephen Carl Edwards
It was a metallic silver. And it had maroon interior, you know, maroon guts. I remember. I love that car, man. I loved riding around in that car with my mom. I always felt larger than life when I was in that car with her. I also felt like when she wasn't around, you know, I had some kind of like, I guess animosity because she wasn't always there, you know. And so a lot of times me and my sister were at the spot by herself. Like I said, if, if she was there, she would make sure we ate. Ate. But, you know, there was some times where me and my sister were eating out of the fridge. It's like, there's nothing in there, you know. You ever had a mustard sandwich? You know what I mean? We, you know, we had mustard sandwiches. We had. There might, like, my mom used to, like when she would cook, she would.
- [32:41]
Red
Make big meals, right?
- [32:42]
Stephen Carl Edwards
But she didn't cook all the time. But there would be like leftover baby carrots or like maybe like some.
- [32:48]
Greg Lehman
Yeah.
- [32:49]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Or, or like some salad dresses. So we would dip into the dressing and that was what we ate. You know what I mean? Whatever was left over.
- [32:55]
Damar
I remember doing that too.
- [32:57]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Bread.
- [32:57]
Greg Lehman
We used to dip it in that stuff.
- [32:59]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Yeah, yeah. In the, in like the Thousand island or the ranch or whatever it was. My, me and my sister used to say carrots and ranch because that's what.
- [33:08]
Red
We had, you know.
- [33:09]
Stephen Carl Edwards
But, you know, it wasn't, like I said, it wasn't always. It's not like we were starving. She would come home after she was doing out doing her thing and, you know, be like, oh, you guys have an eight. And she would start tripping and be like, mom, it's 11:00 at night, you know, and then she were going to the drive through, you know, like, it was like that, you know.
- [33:22]
Damar
Tell me about your sister. Tell me about what your connection's like with your sister, what your life was like with your sister.
- [33:28]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Me and sis, we were either really loving and, you know, couldn't wait to.
- [33:32]
Red
See each other or we hated each.
- [33:34]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Other, you know, we were either either fighting or we were hugging, you know. But you know, she always made sure I was good, like I said she was. She was partying and doing her thing back then, too. But she would ask me, you know, if I ate or shit like that too, back then, you know, she tried to be kind of like my mother figure when, when mom wasn't around. But yeah, we were, we were good. You know, we were, we were good unless we were fighting. And that was about half the time.
- [34:00]
Damar
Like a Love, hate thing.
- [34:01]
Anthony Covert
Yeah. Yeah.
- [34:02]
Damar
We had one sister, but I think that's because of the dynamic. There was an imbalance there.
- [34:06]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Oh, yeah.
- [34:07]
Damar
She's your sister, but also she's your mom at times, you know, that's kind of what helps you. And you love her. So you also talked about, you know, your grandfather. Seems like those guys were the, you know, your two biggest role models, really. Your sister, she was important to you. You know, I'm around you a lot, man, so I know, like, family is everything. I think that's where. That's where we connect to. Yeah, I'm huge on family. But your relationship with your grandfather, that had a big impact on you.
- [34:35]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Yeah, just. And, you know, it wasn't just him in the church because, like, you know, that was his life. He was everywhere we went. People knew him. They knew who I was because I was his grandson. I mean, he. You know, he was. He was popular, man. Like, when he wasn't doing that, we would sit in the living room and watch old Westerns.
- [34:52]
Red
He liked John Wayne.
- [34:53]
Stephen Carl Edwards
We watched all kinds of westerns.
- [34:55]
Damar
Yeah.
- [34:55]
Stephen Carl Edwards
And then I remember his. His last favorite movie was oh, Brother or Art Thou, Man. We would sit there and laugh about that. And I'm older now. You know what I mean? I'm grown up now, but I would remember sitting there watching that with him and laughing. And we just always joked around. Like, me and him had that. You know, you got that relationship where you just constantly joking with somebody.
- [35:14]
Greg Lehman
He lets you be. You sounded.
- [35:15]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Yeah, yeah, we were. We were always joking, laughing. Man, I miss him, you know, I miss him a lot.
- [35:20]
Damar
He's no longer with us.
- [35:22]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Yeah, no, he passed away in my last year at OCC in 2011. I was trying to get out of there so I could see him in person one last time, but he didn't make it, man. He had a. He got cancer and he couldn't. He couldn't make it until I got out, you know, and that's another. That's another reason that I'm so hard on myself, you know, about this prison, being in here and missing stuff like that.
- [35:54]
Damar
Most definitely. I mean, I got a chance to see you at an event with your family, man, and, like, they love you. So many people came, you know, you had, like, a lot of visitors, man. Man. So I just want to let you know, too, man, that you're. I'm watching what you're doing, and that's why you're a part of my life and what we have going on, because we're trying to do things differently. So, you know, I appreciate you for. For being so honest about that.
- [36:21]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Thank you, bro.
- [36:22]
Damar
What's one of the biggest lessons you learned from him? Cuz it sound like, you know, this guy was really like. And it's crazy because my grandfather, I was real close to him, man. So what's one of the biggest things you learned? This was like your father figure, basically.
- [36:36]
Stephen Carl Edwards
No, my dad was around, you know, it's not like he wasn't there, but you know, he worked a lot. So I just. I feel like. I always feel like I missed out on something. I always feel like I missed that time because I was doing stupid. You know, I still, luckily still have my dad today, but I don't have him anymore, you know. But yeah, he just, you know, that's probably where I get my.
- [36:59]
Damar
Your humor.
- [37:00]
Stephen Carl Edwards
My humor and you know, family love for family.
- [37:04]
Damar
Yeah.
- [37:05]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Just trying to do the right thing. I try. You know, he ingrained in me to be a good person, you know, like people up.
- [37:13]
Red
People do stupid, but just at the.
- [37:15]
Stephen Carl Edwards
End of the day, be a good person. Right?
- [37:17]
Damar
Yeah. What kind of impact has this sentence had on your family? It's.
- [37:21]
Stephen Carl Edwards
It's been rough, man. I met. I talked about Maya and Olivia earlier. My sister has a son, Ramon, too. I was there for the first couple years of Maya's life. A little bit of. I didn't get to see Ramon grow up. I was either in another state or I was locked up when they were growing up, you know, so they. They knew who I was, but they didn't really know me. So even though I don't have kids, those are like my kids, you know. It's sad that I didn't get to see them grow up, but I can be there for them now that they're older. They're all adults now, and so I have a good relationship with them. But I just. I feel bad because I didn't get to help them when they were kids, you know, I didn't get to be there for them. I didn't get to see them go through life, you know, I didn't get to help them have a better childhood that I did.
- [38:07]
Damar
You know, I seen you at the event with the. With your nieces too, man. They love you, Uncle Red. Your family. Love. Like I said, man, it was, it was. It's huge. You got a huge. You have a huge impact on them and you still can make a difference. We still can make a difference.
- [38:21]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Yeah. I just wish I'd have been there for him more when they was a kids and you know, they had another role model in their life, you know, but I try to make up for that now. I try to keep in touch with them. And, you know, Maya calls me Dede to this day. I was her first words. She was trying to say Stevie, but.
- [38:39]
Red
Her first words were Deedee.
- [38:40]
Stephen Carl Edwards
She was trying to come. You know what I mean? And so she still calls me Dee Dee, you know, now that she's 25, you know, and so, you know, we've always been real close, but I just wish we could have been closer. Sure.
- [38:52]
Damar
You know, I know a common statement that people make about us being here, incarcerated. Like, of course. Like, I hope that we can grow up with wisdom. Like, everyone doesn't grow up with wisdom to where it's like, well, they should have thought about that at the time. Like, why do you have to come here to become a man? Or why do you have to come here to grow up? Right foreign. What is something that you'd like to say to people out there in the world, like, about your story and just about criminals, man, just those who violate the law and come here and then they're hearing you, like, express your story, man. You're talking about, you know, staying consistent, working a job, how you wished you would have been a better role model for certain people, just showing that emotion and being honest about that. Like.
- [39:45]
Stephen Carl Edwards
Like, I would just say that we can change, you know, and people can change, man, just because you've been doing something forever or you just started doing something, you can switch it up, man, start doing something different. So just because you're in here, that's not who you are. What you're in prison for is not. Does not define you, or what you've been doing your whole life does not define. You can always change and become a better person. You can change the narrative that people have of you.
- [40:11]
Red
You.
- [40:12]
Damar
So, I mean, just a hypothetical, your victim stumbles upon this interview, this podcast, and it's you doing this work. What would you say?
- [40:22]
Stephen Carl Edwards
I just say I really apologize, you know, for. For that day, the extents that I went through to steal something that belonged to him, it. It was ridiculous. And I. I regret it every day. You know, if there's anything that I could help him with when I get out, out to make his life easier, he needs me to mow his grass. I'll go mow his grass. You know what I mean? Like, just to make up for that, if he wants me to wash his car, you know, just to try to show him that I am regretful and I wish that would have never happened, you know, but like I said, the. The person that I was then is not the person I am today. And the person I was when I was all strung out and. And doing the most to try to. That I thought I needed to do to get by is not who I am as a man, and that's not who I am in real life.
- [41:17]
Vic Chopra
Through overcoming and healing his own trauma and being willing to share his story with others, Red's journey is a true testament to the possibility for people to change and grow. And he has truly become a leader within the community at ws, all the while maintaining what truly matters to him. And that's family. Now for our weekly history report. We're switching things up. This episode we have learned a lot about the history of Washington State Penitentiary. And most recently, Red talked about the different groups that formed during the Concrete Mama days of the rgc. On this episode, we are bringing in my brother Demar to talk about one of those groups called Black Prisoners forum Unlimited, or Bpfu, which was an organization that was developed in 1969. But let me stop there and let's hear from Demar.
- [42:13]
Greg Lehman
This week we're doing something slightly different. I know you're used to hearing my brother Red bring you some Walla Walla history, but I got this. And don't worry, he'll be back. Remember, last week Red spoke to you about the motorcycle club. This time, I want to talk to you about the bpfu, the Black Prisoners Forum Unlimited. This was one of the three groups that was left toward the end of the RGC days. In the famous book Concrete Mama, it was said that during the years of 1978 and 79, the BPFU existed primarily as a social club for black men that were incarcerated at Walla Walla. The initial goals of the group was to gather to help black men during time reclaim their culture and identity. This was following a wave across the country in step with the 70s movement of black leadership. Led by the influence of national leaders of the Black Panther movement. The group's focus was culture and community. Community as well as prison conditions. But over time, rifts grew due to several leaders of the group being Muslim or having different philosophies regarding what direction the group should take. Ultimately, the prison culture, fueled by power or drugs influencing many of the members choices and motives led to the crumble of the BPMU. But before we talk about how things fell apart, let's go into the things they established. That was pretty crazy cool, if you ask me. Inside the prison, the BPFU was Responsible for guiding and connecting local colleges to classes developing on the inside that men doing time were interested in taking. Most of the outside support that came inside the prison was largely led and championed by the members of the BPMU. Centered on teaching culture and history as well as pushing to change poor priority prison conditions. Another cool program that was largely led and developed by black men who were members of the BPAFU and also boxers was the boxing program inside of the prison. A thing that flourished and produced some of the most skilled fighters in the country. The amateur boxing matches inside the prison also brought in community fans. When matches took place, many locals came inside and from around the state to watch fights take place in the yard and gym in smoker rings. These rings were used for developing fighters. It was a practice ring where the fights took place but didn't count on your official record. This program shaped many amateur fighters in the pros and at one time had as many as 11 fighters. Three were experienced Golden Glove champions as well as one heavyweight champion and another light heavyweight champion by the name of Curtis Johnson who became became the face of the program and the representation for incarcerated fighters around the country. It is said in the Washington State Penitentiary archives that Curtis Johnson was a Golden Gloves champion in several states and turned pro inside Walla Walla in the late 70s and as an amateur won over 111 fights. Curtis was also a member of the BPMU and served as a sergeant of arms to the group. But now let me tell you a story about how much drugs and power struggles all led to the collapse of the BPMU. During this time when the legitimate activities of the group start to dwindle due to drugs. The heroin pipeline flowing into the prison was the main problem. And the power of the BPMU rested on one man who had the heroin pipeline in his grass. His name was Cadillac Brown. The bikers in Cadillac Brown had an agreement that became the partnership between the groups to control the heroin sales and the distribution inside of the prison. The bikers, who were mainly a group of men with life sentences, became the dealers and debt collectors for Cadillac Brown. You learned from Red in the last episode how powerful the bikers club was. So this served well because the bikers were the largest group in the penitentiary. The major focus for the bikers and the BPF youth became keeping debts under control and monitoring the prison lockdowns, which was bad for business, especially the drug trade. Under a lockdown, sellers couldn't supply customers. The money stopped flowing and junkies went into withdrawal. Maintaining sales required keeping order within the prison. The inmates Called it keeping the lid on. In the book Unusual punishment that highlights the nature of the drug dynamic in the prison prison during this time, a former BPFU member said this. When you looked around, there were several people shooting dope on the breezeways and the guard would walk right by you like they didn't see nothing. Some people would be sitting there with.
- [46:59]
Damar
Needles stuck in their arms.
- [47:01]
Greg Lehman
When it came to the BPFU and the bikers drug contract, the tragic ending would be one that ended in bloodshed. In March of 1976, one of the bikers witnessed a man in the prison named Steve McCoy who worked in the kitchen selling heroin. After watching for several days, they confronted him. The bikers had the contract to sell all heroin coming into the prison through Cadillac Brown. But after missing payment, Cadillac tried giving the drugs to McCoy to deal and things got violent. After confronting McCoy and telling him to return to dope, a meeting was then called between the bikers and the BPFU and they said if the drugs won't return, there will be problems. Later, after seeing McCoy, they warned him to give the dope back to the bike shop. McCoy refused and the next morning in a brutal knife fight, McCoy was killed. That's a wild story, right? I guess it's a testament to how fast things can spin out of control in here and also when drugs are in the equation, how severe things can become. Today the BPFU doesn't exist, but there are still cultural groups striving to better themselves and celebrate customs. It's just different because it isn't about power, it's about liberation. Today we have a platform across the state of Washington called the bpc, the Black Prisoners Caucus. This program exists to create community and provide service and education to all black men on the inside. But we're also diverse and welcoming to others. We also strive to work with the administration to make this a better place to do time because we realize it isn't the 70s and we can learn from the past by reflecting on our mistakes as people and making better choices moving forward. I think anybody can take a look lesson from that.
- [49:04]
Vic Chopra
We want to thank you for listening to this episode of Concrete Mama, the podcast. Next week we take a break from our regular scheduled programming to give you some more looks behind the scenes of Concrete Mama before we close out the season with our finale the following week. Don't miss it.
- [49:40]
Rachel Cech
We'd like to acknowledge Red's family for their undying support of him while incarcerated. And we'd also like to thank Greg Lehman and Jeremy Bernie of the Union Bulletin in Walla Walla for covering the story of Concrete Mama, the podcast. That's it for this episode of Concrete Mama. But before we go, here's who makes it happen. Zach Bentz is our editor, audio engineer and graphic designer. Megan Sanchez handles our social media content and audience engagement. Vic Chopra and me, Rachel Cech are the showrunners and executive producers. Washington State Penitentiary in Walla Walla and Washington State Doc have made this project possible. For more info, check out our show notes and you can write us with questions about the podcast at the email and address listed there. We will read and answer some of them on future episodes. You can also subscribe to support us and get extra content. Concrete Mama is more than a podcast, it's a platform for voices that need to be heard. If this episode resonated with you, share it, support it, leave us a five star rating and keep listening. You can find unincarcerated productions on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok and various other social media platforms. Thanks for listening.