"Free Your Truth"

Summary

---

Concrete Mama: The Podcast

Episode: "Free Your Truth" (July 1, 2026)

Host: Unincarcerated Productions
Description:
A raw, inside-out look at the transformation and storytelling movement happening within Washington State Penitentiary, featuring justice-impacted voices, legendary guests like Earlonne Woods (Ear Hustle), and a deep dive into the prison’s notorious history alongside dreams for a more human future.

---

Episode Overview

This episode marks the Season 2 premiere of Concrete Mama, spotlighting the movement to reclaim and retell the narrative of incarceration. Recorded inside Walla Walla, it bridges life inside and outside prison walls through storytelling, community events, personal transformation, and history. Special emphasis is placed on the collective power of "Justice Media," redefining justice and humanizing those impacted by the system.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Justice Media Film Fest & Community Partnerships

• [00:00–03:40]: Vic and Rachel introduce the episode, recapping the Justice Media Film Fest—an unprecedented dual event held both in the prison and the Walla Walla community.
• Community support: Notable local sponsors (the “Concrete Papas”) and businesses underlined the necessity of community investment in these stories.
  • “Stories have so much power when the local community chooses to invest in getting them told.” — Rachel Cech [03:08]

2. Justice Media: Reclaiming the Narrative

• [03:52–09:00]:
  • The ‘Emergency Broadcast’: Urgent call for connection and self-authorship.
  • Personal Testimony: Chris Gates (“Grazy”) gives a stirring monologue about survival, emotional numbness, and the redemptive power of embracing vulnerability through storytelling.
    • “Enduring alone, that’s not growth. Growth—learning how to endure in a way that shows people who you really are.” — Chris Gates [06:19]
    • “Our stories matter, period.” — Chris Gates [08:13]

3. Meet the Team: Season 2 Introductions

• [09:01–11:00]:
  • The hosts and team reintroduce themselves and outline their growing media lab, which now includes in-prison filmmaking.
  • Anthony Colbert checks in as a newly freed citizen; the team celebrates community, transformation, and the mission of justice-impacted storytelling.

4. Guest Spotlight: Earlonne Woods (Ear Hustle)

• [11:05–26:00]:
  • Conversation with Earlonne Woods:
    • Story of transformation: from multiple sentences, isolation, and survival tactics to the creation of the pioneering Ear Hustle podcast.
    • Insights into imposter syndrome, authenticity, and the responsibility of being a public example for change.
    • Emotional regulation as a core survival and growth skill for the justice-impacted.
    • “When I stepped out of prison, my whole mission ... is that I understand that all eyes are on me, even though they’re not … How is he acclimating to society?” — Earlonne Woods [17:24]

Memorable Quotes:

• "People behind bars are not the worst thing they've done in their life. I think everybody in prison is redeemable." — Earlonne Woods [34:55]
• “Who are you when nobody’s watching? Because that’s who you really are.” — Zach Bentz [19:06]
• “Imposter syndrome? Not necessarily ... we are back to our 11- or 12-year-old selves, before we got into that shit, we’re back to the people that we were.” — Earlonne Woods [20:27]

---

5. Personal Growth & the Power of Connection

• [26:00–33:00]:
  • Chris ("Grazy") shares how the podcast team, brotherhood, and opening up emotionally transformed his path—to move beyond mere “survival mode.”
  • Hosts (Red & Damar) reflect on the power of seeing transformation celebrated both inside and outside the walls.
  • The vast impact of community support is underlined:
    • "Connection is huge for me. Being in the space with the podcast team … have really showed me what it's like to let the guards down and connect with people." — Chris Gates [28:33]

---

6. Season 2 Community Event & Reflections

• [29:40–36:00]:
  • Recap of the major community celebration for Concrete Mama, highlighting unprecedented collaboration between those inside, the community, and guests like Earlonne Woods.
  • Reflections from local resident Molly and community organizer Anastasia on the meaning and mythology of transformation, visibility, and the movement’s importance.

---

7. Inclusion, Representation, and Belonging

• [36:00–40:43]:
  • Anthony Colbert explains why staying in the Walla Walla community upon release was essential:
    • “They believed in me before I even believed in myself ... there was so much support from different people inside of the institution ... why would I want to go somewhere else when all my support’s right here?” — Anthony Colbert [36:18]
  • The episode underscores the rare sense of inclusion at the event, the need for systemic change, and the desire for those behind the wires to not be forgotten or othered.

---

8. Voices from Inside: Mental Health, Purpose, and Transformation

• [41:03–42:30]:
  • Chris Gates again testifies to reclaiming a sense of purpose and connection that incarceration had eroded.
    • “It gave me a reason to wake up in the morning again ... It gives me motivation, drive, courage ... I want to be the change I want to see.” — Chris Gates [41:49]

---

9. The History: Setting the Record Straight with Ken Atouga

• [44:09–56:59]:
  • Red narrates Ken Atouga’s legendary history—from youthful leadership, activism, and escapes, to hard truths about representation, trauma, and personal evolution.
  • Ken details the origins and demise of 1990s prison media labs, censorship, and his vision for positive programming.
    • “My vision was that we would put positive affirmations under there … it takes that amount of positive affirmations to overcome all the negative affirmations we've experienced in our lives.” — Ken Atouga [54:10]

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |---|---|---| | 06:19 | Chris Gates | “Growth—learning how to endure in a way that shows people who you really are.” | | 17:24 | Earlonne Woods | "All eyes are on me ... How is he acclimating to society?" | | 19:06 | Zach Bentz | “Who are you when nobody’s watching? Because that’s who you really are.” | | 20:27 | Earlonne Woods | "We're back to our 11- or 12-year-old selves..." | | 28:33 | Chris Gates | “Connection is huge for me ... it really showed me what it's like to let the guards down and connect with people.” | | 34:55 | Earlonne Woods | “People behind bars are not the worst thing they've done in their life. Everybody in prison is redeemable.” | | 36:18 | Anthony Colbert | “They believed in me before I even believed in myself... All my support's right here.” | | 41:49 | Chris Gates | “It gave me a reason to wake up in the morning again... I want to be the change I want to see.” | | 54:10 | Ken Atouga | “It takes ... positive affirmations to overcome all the negative affirmations we've experienced in our lives.” |

---

Important Segments & Timestamps

• 00:00–03:40 – Film festival recap and community partnerships
• 03:52–09:00 – Justice Media manifesto & Chris Gates’ personal story
• 11:05–26:00 – Deep-dive with Earlonne Woods: transformation, responsibility, and growth
• 26:00–33:00 – Chris Gates on connection and brotherhood
• 33:00–42:30 – Community event, inclusivity, and belonging
• 44:09–56:59 – Walla Walla prison history with Ken Atouga

---

Tone & Style

The episode is candid, reflective, and hopeful—alternately unfiltered and deeply philosophical. Hosts and guests use authentic, plainspoken language, blending humor, vulnerability, and righteous frustration with optimism and determination.

---

Conclusion & Season 2 Themes

The episode sets the stage for Season 2, focusing on community, mental health, and the living history of Washington State Penitentiary. Storytelling remains the movement’s engine for healing and redemption—a call to rehumanize and transform both individuals and systems shaping justice-impacted lives.

---

Concrete Mama isn’t just a podcast—it’s a movement to “free your truth.”

Transcript

[Vic Chopra]

Hey, fam. It's Vic and Rachel here. And before we start our episode, we just wanted to take a moment to talk about the Justice Media Film Fest we recently held in Walla Walla, Washington. This was an unprecedented dual film festival with events both inside the Washington State Penitentiary and at the Giza Powerhouse Theater. We partnered with the San Quentin Film Festival to screen a slew of their amazing shorts, including the hit film so Boom, and premiered our first short film, Lockdown, which was created by our own incarcerated students at the Washington State Penitentiary. They wrote the screenplay, acted, directed, operated the cameras and lighting, built the sets. They did it all.

[Rachel Cech]

We also want to talk about our amazing local sponsors who made this all possible. Now, y' all know we're called Concrete Mama, but can you believe Walla Walla also has its own set of Concrete Papas? That's right. We want to shout out our incredible premier sponsors, the Concrete Papas. And every town has businesses who believe in the communities that they serve, but these guys really went above and beyond. So to Ryan from Concrete Industries and Cruz from Moreno and Castillo Construction in Walla Walla, we just want to say we're so grateful for your partnership and helping us bring this very special film festival to life. We'd also like to thank the rest of our amazing supporting sponsors. Price Computers, Foundry Vineyards, and visit Walla Walla, Port of Walla Walla and Sharon Martin with Windermere Real Estate.

[Vic Chopra]

And let's not forget the incredible boutique hotel the Wesley. It's set in the beautiful downtown of Walla Walla, which has been voted top Main street and friendliest small town in America. It's known as a great outdoor destination for its local culture and most especially for its wine. The town also has a cool emerging film community with so many great locations for your next project. But back to the Wesley. Don't take our word for how amazing this hotel is. Let's hear from Abby Pierce and Tiny Cruise, the filmmakers behind so Boom, to tell you all about it.

[Megan Sanchez]

Tiny, should we take a trip down memory lane? Yes, we should. Let's talk about Walla Walla. The Wesleyan Walla Walla. The nicest hotel I've ever stayed in, bro. Me, too. It was beautiful. It was in that big, like, Victorian house. And then who decorated that place? I don't know, but we got to give that person their flowers because it was so beautiful inside and out. And they had one. How many hot tubs did they have? I think it was two. But all I know is we stood in the biggest one because it was it set the tones. It was, hands down, the biggest hot tub I've ever seen. And then it was in this beautiful green backyard. And the people that worked there were so nice and kind. The hospitality was on point. They had bikes that they could offer us. I mean, it was just like, such a nice space. And for two New Yorkers, those brooms were like the size of our apartments. Yo, for real. Oh, my God. Yo. I loved it so much. Oh, my God.

[Rachel Cech]

Bring us back.

[Megan Sanchez]

Bring us back. We loved it. We love you, Wesley. Yes, we do. We can't wait to see you again.

[Rachel Cech]

So if you're in the local area, please support these businesses. And if you're listening anywhere else in the country, we hope you put your dollars into the local businesses that invest in communities. And if you own a business yourself, consider this your invitation. Stories have so much power when the local community chooses to invest in getting them told.

[Craig Jackson]

This program contains mature language that may not be suitable for all listeners.

[Chris Gates (Grazy)]

Discretion is advised.

[Justice Media Narrator]

This is an emergency broadcast. I repeat, this is an emergency broadcast. This message is coming from inside. This is not a drill. This isn't news about justice. This news is our justice. In a time of uncertainty and division, we are calling people back to connection and action. Who is out there doing the work? Who's telling the stories? Who's deciding what justice looks like? I know you're out there. Journalists, teachers, organizers, leaders, artists, policymakers, families, the listeners. Justice Media is how we all stay human when the system is trying to erase us. Justice Media is about proximity. It's about people closest to the pain. People who have lived it, survived it, People who are still inside of it. Justice Media is self authorship, self accountability, public responsibility and collective memory. We're the ones that get to create what's next. What happens to one of us happens to all of us. Silence is what allows the old narrative to win. But who is really listening? We are not subjects. We are witnesses. If we don't tell the story, someone else will, and they already are.

[Damar]

Are you feeling powerless? Are you down on your luck? Are you trying to find a purpose? Maybe you're trying to find a way to impact your community in a positive way. Then join the movement. The Justice Media Movement. We want you to join the movement

[Justice Media Narrator]

now by the people, for the people.

[Damar]

For more info, check out Justice Media.

[Chris Gates (Grazy)]

Timeout. Hold the fuck on, man. Real life ain't like that. My life ain't like that. It never has been. Real life's always been struggle and sacrifice. Given everything you've got just to barely have enough to keep going. Real life's about survival, how you feel. Because real life does not care. Real life's pain and hardship and so much of it that it starts to feel normal. So much that you start to feel numb just to bear it. So much that you forget how to feel. When you forget how to feel, you forget how to connect with people. I know. Trust me, I've been there. Sometimes I'm still there. Nobody sees you struggling. Nobody cares. So you convince yourself that you don't care. Nobody sees you. But that's okay. Because being seen becomes a liability. Feeling becomes dangerous. My world's always taught me that my feelings were wrong. So I started to believe it. I was taught to endure. To thug out, act like it doesn't matter, keep my head down, keep pushing, get shit done. Suffering was a part of that. It became normal. Enduring pain became a way of life. But enduring alone, that's not growth. Growth. Learning how to endure in a way that shows people who you really are. Just as media has empowered me to do that, I've seen it change people's lives right in front of my face. I felt it changed my own life. It's about really seeing people, and it's about really being seen. Our stories matter, Period. And as much as you might not think so, sometimes your story matters. My name is Chris Gase. They call me Grazy. I've been locked up since April 30th of 2018. And I am Justice. Media.

[Craig Jackson]

Justice.

[Rachel Cech]

Media.

[Earlonne Woods]

Justice.

[Damar]

Justice.

[Chris Gates (Grazy)]

All of us are.

[Craig Jackson]

This is Concrete Mama, the podcast.

[Zach Bentz]

Well, here we are, Concrete Mama.

[Vic Chopra]

Fam.

[Rachel Cech]

We made it to season two.

[Zach Bentz]

Look, I know it's been a while since we dropped season one and we may have a few new listeners joining

[Rachel Cech]

us, so I'd like to reintroduce myself.

[Zach Bentz]

I'm Vic Chopra, founder of Unincarcerated Productions, showrunner and producer, and one of your

[Rachel Cech]

hosts on this odyssey into the world of the Washington State Penitentiary.

Rachel. I'm Rachel Cech, CEO of Unincarcerated Productions, showrunner and producer.

[Zach Bentz]

I'm Zach Bentz, editor and sound designer for Concrete Mama. This is Megan Sanchez, content producer and

[Megan Sanchez]

social media guru for Unincarcerated.

[Anthony Colbert]

What's up, y'?

[Chris Gates (Grazy)]

All?

[Anthony Colbert]

This is your co host, Anthony Colbert, back for season two as a full on citizen of the Walla Walla community.

[Zach Bentz]

We started unincarcerated back in 2018 out of our desire to flip the script

[Rachel Cech]

on how the justice impacted community is

[Zach Bentz]

perceived through the and powerful act of storytelling. And from that mission came the movement of justice Media and this podcast, Concrete Mama.

[Rachel Cech]

And through our work inside the Washington State Penitentiary, we've expanded this program into a full fledged media lab, teaching podcasting, screenwriting, and now filmmaking to our incarcerated students.

[Zach Bentz]

Yes, we actually made a short film called Lockdown Inside the Penitentiary Walls, written by, co directed by, and starring the students of our media lab. And as we expand the breadth of our in prison programming and education, we're reaching outside the prison walls this season,

[Earlonne Woods]

bringing more folks from the Walla Walla

[Zach Bentz]

community and beyond into the world of

[Earlonne Woods]

Concrete Mama, sharing their own experiences of

[Rachel Cech]

connection and transformation inside wsp.

[Anthony Colbert]

So, speaking of the world beyond the walls, we recently held a large community event in Walla Walla to celebrate the success of season one. We were extremely blessed to have one very special guest join us.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

So we got Michael Jackson.

[Zach Bentz]

Oh, yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

Nice.

[Damar]

We need that mic.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. These are the standards. Everybody need Michael Jackson.

[Chris Gates (Grazy)]

Money.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

Yeah.

[Ken Atouga]

Yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

I'm gonna say this. If y' all want money, y' all in the wrong business.

[Molly]

Yeah.

[Zach Bentz]

That right there is Earlonne woods, one

[Rachel Cech]

of the hosts of the OG Prison

[Zach Bentz]

podcast, Ear Hustle out of San Quentin. Earlonne and his team have been Justice Media before it was Justice Media.

[Rachel Cech]

Before the festivities, Damar, Red and I

[Zach Bentz]

were lucky enough to sit down with Earlonne in our studio and talk about our journeys in Justice Media.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

How did we get here?

[Damar]

How did we get here?

[Red (John Kerwin)]

All of us and you guys get into it later, but you guys got a unique kind of perspective that me and Red talked about on the redemptive side. But how did we get here? How did the universe drop us here?

[Zach Bentz]

I think first vision, Imagining what's possible. You know, I've been thinking a lot about that lately. You know, we were setting up at the event venue yesterday, and I started to get emotional because I, in my wildest dreams, sitting in my cell here, right? Like, thought all this stuff could happen. But then seven years later, seeing everything come to fruition like this, it's pretty amazing and powerful and overwhelming in, like, the best way because it literally just start with a thought in my head. It was like, okay, I'm going to be a filmmaker when I get out, right? Probably start a production company. I'm handwriting a couple of screenplays and maybe come back to this prison, maybe bring some cameras in, maybe get a chance to tell my story. And it's just like a fleeting thought. So I would say that's where it started for me.

[Earlonne Woods]

What was you thinking that in the cell?

[Red (John Kerwin)]

In the cell?

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's crazy because, you know, I served two different prison sentences. I served when I was a juvenile.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

How long was that?

[Earlonne Woods]

Six years, three months.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

Okay.

[Earlonne Woods]

I went in at 17.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

O.

[Earlonne Woods]

And I think I got out at 23, and I was still, like, 17, you know what I'm saying? Mentally, yeah, I was still, like, stagnated like a. So I think I stayed out for two years, 10 months, and then I went back to prison with two life sentences, and they utilized my juvenile case to do that. So I think when I went back to prison, I kind of had a different perspective of prison, being that I seen it already. And I seen me basically burying myself based on my decisions, you know, being a part of a gang, being involved in whatever it was, you know what I'm saying? And I said. I told myself. I say, man, I ain't gonna do that no more, because. You know what I'm saying? Because it was like I found myself in Pelican Bay Shoe and corporate shoe, doing all just. Just with the business, you know? And I was like, damn, I was burying myself, you know, And. And my mama told me one thing when I was. When I was. I had wrote her from Pelican Bay Shoe, and I was like, yeah, you know, I'm in solitary confinement. And I got a letter back, and it was the deepest. She said, baby, how you go to jail? In jail,

[Red (John Kerwin)]

you get into trouble while you in trouble.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, you know, I'm like.

[Anthony Colbert]

And.

[Earlonne Woods]

And I couldn't even say mama. It wasn't even about me. It wasn't even about. Literally, I was in the shoe for something I had nothing to do with. It was the gang I was from. When I got went back to prison, my. One of my homies got killed on the case I was on by the police. This dude, you know, he had a one year old. His wife was pregnant, you know what I'm saying? And he had a. He had another little child. The father died for nothing. So that's. I mean, I'm talking about, like, I was literally in the county jail when the light switch went off. Like, man, I can't. I can't live like this. You know what I'm saying? I can't do this shit no more. So that was, like, the beginning of my change, but I was in an environment that didn't really appreciate or respect change, you know what I'm saying? The prison system wasn't trying to offer shit. So I was in Sentinel State prison for about 12 years, and I was watching the Discovery Channel. And on the Discovery Channel, they had the San Quentin Film School. And I was saying to myself, a prison with a film school, they thinking outside the box. I got to get there. And I couldn't get there. They wouldn't allow me to go to San Quentin, you know what I'm saying? Because you had to fit in a certain box. I had to do what we always do because we got so much time. We have to think about how we gonna. How should I say this? How we going to maneuver. Maneuver and write this into existence, you know what I'm saying? So I had to look at the prison system and say, okay, I gotta play the prison system against themselves. So I had watched about 10 solo commercials. You know, I watched about 10 Zoloft commercials. And I went into the psych and I told him everything the ball was doing. Like, I can't sleep. I feel depressed. And I knew that the prison didn't have a psych program. So they got to send me to a place with a psych program, and they got to put me in my regular custody. I was in a higher custody than I was supposed to be in. And within 90 days, I was up out of there. But I didn't go to San Quentin. They sent me to a solid ad where I was really depressed now, you know what I'm saying? I'm like, man, I was better off where I was at. You know what I'm saying? But there's two things that came out of that. One, San Quentin that got rid of some of their reception centers, so they had an opening. So I was able to sign up and go right to San Quentin from there. And two, I really needed to talk to a psych.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

Oh, that's cool.

[Earlonne Woods]

And I never. I never. I never had paid attention to that. I think everybody in prison need to talk to somebody that's not a correctional officer or a fellow prisoner, you know what I'm saying? So a psych is always good. And. And I. I always want to see what they record is a. What I was saying. And I know what I was saying. Everything I went in there, talk about was dealing with three strikes, the three strikes law in California. You know, that was my whole meaningful conversation in there. And so to finish answering the question, how we got here, it was when I got to San Quentin, they no longer had the film school, but they. They had a media center that had all the equipment. So, you know, I volunteered in the media center and learned how to do video. Learned how to do video editing. And that's when I met. Ended up meeting Nigel Poor, because she came over there to do her show to do a documentary on the show. And it just went from one thing to the next. And we started doing radio programs, and then we started the podcast.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

That's so cool.

[Earlonne Woods]

One thing that I realized again, remember how I said it ain't about us. Right. But at the same time, we are the example. So when I stepped out of prison, my whole mission, even though of course we change our lives, we do all that is that. I understand that all eyes are on me, even though they're not, but all eyes on me. How is he acclimating in society? Is he back into the. Is he really what he. You know what I'm saying? The light switch flipped. I'm cool. I can't do time no more. I'm done with that, you know what I'm saying? And even I got homies that's still in the life. They're still doing.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

They do.

[Earlonne Woods]

And I do chat with them, I mess with them, you know what I'm saying? But to a certain extent, you know what I'm saying? Because I can't go down that line, that. That road. And that's probably why I don't live in la.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

I'd be noticing that now, man. I'd be seeing people clocking me in the units.

[Chris Gates (Grazy)]

Yeah.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

And I'd be like, what's up? You know, we watch.

[Zach Bentz]

Yeah.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

I see his cat looking. But what it is is people that I don't even talk to, they're listening to the podcast.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

And they're paying attention to my behaviors and how I move. And then sometimes, you know, people want to know the things that are coming out your mouth. Is that really who you are consistently, though?

[Earlonne Woods]

Right?

[Anthony Colbert]

Yeah.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

Just because you on the mic.

[Ken Atouga]

Yeah.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

And so I definitely, you know how that's how it impacts me personally. I'm like, I gotta really shape up. I gotta make sure that, you know, I'm walking my talk, you know, for my family out even in the world. It ain't just in here. People out there in the world are, like, really tuned in. And now I have to know that I really am this person that I project myself to be today for sure.

[Earlonne Woods]

Right.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

That's who I am.

[Zach Bentz]

Yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

So you definitely got to walk the walk.

[Ken Atouga]

Yeah.

[Anthony Colbert]

There's a.

[Zach Bentz]

There's a saying or people ask, like, who are you when nobody's watching?

[Earlonne Woods]

Right.

[Zach Bentz]

Because that's who you really are.

[Molly]

Right.

[Zach Bentz]

And if you're that person when you're on the mic and, like, when you're off. Right. I live my life by that. That's One of like the adages. And it's like, who am I when. When nobody's watching, right? I agree with you that there is like, there's a responsibility. I don't know, there's. There's a lot of emotion around it behind it for me, because being seven years removed, like starting this company, doing this podcast, like working on other projects that are all related around justice, Right. And storytelling and really making sure like we get and that also it's uplifting and hopeful and like I said, really giving that spark of transformation for others. Right. I take that to heart and I really live my life by that of wanting to inspire other people to live their best lives. Right. So I think this podcast is one of the ways that we do it. I think there's a lot more that we're working on it unincarcerated or just other creative endeavors that I'm doing in my life to constantly, always be leveling up, stepping up my game, pushing the limits on what I'm capable of and then showing that to others as well. Right. Because I feel like my success then, you know, rising tides lift all boats. Success multiplies. So the more successful I am, the more that it will expand out to my community, the more that it will expand out to this community. Right. So then nobody feels like they're limited.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

Do you guys think that people that change their lives deal with imposter syndrome?

[Zach Bentz]

Well, 100%.

[Earlonne Woods]

What's that like?

[Zach Bentz]

I think so.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

Do you ever feel like that, Earlonne? Like, man, am I really?

[Earlonne Woods]

No, no. We used to clown about that, you know what I'm saying? And we used to clown about it from the, from the perspective of, you know, us squaring up, doing it. Yeah, but, but what I always tell people is that we are back to our 11 year old, 12 year old selves, you know what I'm saying? Before we were distracted by the game, you know what I'm saying? Before we got into that shit, we back to the people that we were, you know what I'm saying? Like when you say who see you behind closed doors or whatever it is, I'm the dude that's pulling over on the freeway because I see you on the side of the road. I don't even know you, but I think you need help. That's the person who I am, you know what I'm saying? So imposter syndrome. Not necessarily.

[Zach Bentz]

I've dealt with it 100% because even though I have like a ridiculous delusional belief in myself, that's gotten me to where I am. There are those thoughts that creep up in the back of my head. There is lingering doubt, but I push

[Earlonne Woods]

through it, and then it's an imposter. On what, though?

[Zach Bentz]

I don't know. In trying something new, whether it's directing a film or submitting a screenplay for something, or trying my hand at something new.

[Craig Jackson]

Right.

[Zach Bentz]

If the skill doesn't come to me, like, right away, and I. There's a learning curve. There is a. There will be some doubt that will creep in, but I push through it. I push through it so, like, I know I can do it.

[Earlonne Woods]

If I was to, say imposter syndrome, it'd be us serving time because we all trying to profess a role that we really notice. You know, we all trying to be stuff that we're not. Yeah, I have an image that we're totally not. But we have to stick in, stick up to this image. We have to create this image so people can accept us or. Or fear us or. But at the end of the day, we don't beat them people.

[Damar]

I think all four of us, man, we've been having success because we're all good people. And I think that comes out, like, when. When we talk, people can tell that

[Red (John Kerwin)]

this is a good dude.

[Damar]

These are good dudes, man. So I know when I listen to Ear Hustle, that's the first thing I thought. I think that's why people can relate to us, you know?

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah, no, definitely, man.

[Rachel Cech]

That's.

[Earlonne Woods]

What about you?

[Red (John Kerwin)]

You know, I'd be having thoughts about how far I've come.

[Ken Atouga]

Right.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

And that's what be having me, like, man. I'm. Because sometimes stuff will take place around me and based on things that I've been through, and it's just. It's probably my ego. I'd be like, man, I done got super nice. I didn't used to be like that, man.

[Earlonne Woods]

But it's.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

No, it's not what that. What that is is. No, I'm. I don't. I've turned into an adult.

[Ken Atouga]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Zach Bentz]

You grew up in the right ways. Grew up in the right ways because I still think you need to have, like, a childlike mentality with, like, joy and wonder and belief and belief in, like, magic and miracles and, like, success. Right? Yeah. Having fun.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

Be a child, you know? But I just.

[Zach Bentz]

But you drop the.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

Yeah, that's what it is. But sometimes I'd be like, man, I might need to cut up a little bit because we still be dealing with stuff, man. It'd be just like.

[Earlonne Woods]

See, it's easy to cut up. That's the easiest to do.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

But when you grow to, you get mad that you don't get no as mad as you used to about certain stuff.

[Ken Atouga]

Yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

It's harder not to cut up.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

Yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

That's the hardest thing.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

But then now it is what it is. Yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

Because people gonna always try to pull you to the level that they own. And, and, and one of the biggest things, like I. I'm going to juvenile halls and I tell people, don't let people control your emotions, man.

[Ken Atouga]

Yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

You can't let nobody control your emotions because they can dictate how you're going to respond.

[Justice Media Narrator]

Right.

[Earlonne Woods]

You know what I'm saying? Like my whole thing, I don't let people get to my core.

[Ken Atouga]

Right.

[Earlonne Woods]

You know what I'm saying? And people always say, oh, man, that's a bad thing. I'm like, that's it for me. It works for me. You know what I'm saying? Because I'm not emotionally tied to what you're talking about. You know what I'm saying? So I don't have to give you a response to it.

[Zach Bentz]

Like I said, emotional regulation, that is the biggest gift you can give to yourself.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah.

[Damar]

You're not letting it fly. You're not letting stuff slide. You're just thinking about the long term.

[Zach Bentz]

Well, and you're also not letting people dictate your emotions.

[Ken Atouga]

Yeah.

[Zach Bentz]

If you allow somebody to get under your skin and get mad at you, who's. Who does that benefit?

[Earlonne Woods]

We in society. Right. And we would. Knowing what we know and the places we've been, we would be a fool to allow somebody to pull me out of my character because I'm the only one going to jail.

[Ken Atouga]

Yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

You know what I'm saying?

[Ken Atouga]

For real.

[Earlonne Woods]

We learn how to control police show

[Red (John Kerwin)]

up and run y name. It's a different response.

[Damar]

You're going home. We're going to jail.

[Chris Gates (Grazy)]

Yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

Because of who I was.

[Ken Atouga]

Us.

[Earlonne Woods]

You know, not because of what happened in this situation, but because of what that record says. I'm the one in cuffs. I'm the one in the back seat.

[Ken Atouga]

So.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah. We can't let nobody dictate our. Our emotions or none of that.

[Zach Bentz]

You're only giving it up for another person.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah.

[Zach Bentz]

It's just. That's the dumbest. I feel like that's the dumbest that you can do.

[Earlonne Woods]

Yeah.

[Zach Bentz]

We're all prone to getting emotional.

[Justice Media Narrator]

Right.

[Zach Bentz]

It's bound to happen. Nobody can be Zen Buddhist all the time.

[Earlonne Woods]

Right.

[Zach Bentz]

But you can feel those emotions, but then let them Pass process them. You're not letting it slide. It doesn't mean that it's okay. But you're taking control of your next steps.

[Earlonne Woods]

And your response might be less than three minutes, but you're gonna get 300 years for that. It literally that one minute that you just did what you did, you could have processed, process.

[Molly]

Yeah.

[Earlonne Woods]

Walk away and woke up tomorrow at home.

[Zach Bentz]

Yeah.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

One minute,

[Rachel Cech]

Man.

[Chris Gates (Grazy)]

Before. Before justice media, before being locked up, like being out there on the streets, my head was on just trying to make it to the next day. I wasn't really thinking about too much long term. I never really liked doing stuff that was going to take opportunities away from me. So I wasn't really risky in my moves, you know, despite risky doing risky out in the streets, like I would do risky in a calculated way, I guess. But I was. I was more towards just making it to the next day, man. I wasn't really thinking too much about thriving and really following my purpose and feeling like I was able to do stuff that was worthwhile, man. I. I know how to move a certain type of way, so I do all the things to make it look good, make sure I stay out of trouble, make sure I stay out the spotlight. But I was really just doing stuff that looked good so that my opportunities were available to do. To figure out what I wanted to do. Man. I didn't know I was out there trying to stay out there, but I was just existing. I was lost, man. Felt isolated, felt alone. I had a good job, working on a career, was successful by all measurements compared to, you know, a lot of people that I used to run around. But I wasn't happy. And I think became so normal to me that I. I stopped paying attention to it. I didn't even know that I was just running in this circle. Okay, I'm doing the right stuff. I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. But it wasn't because it's what I wanted to do. It's because it's what I thought I was supposed to be doing. I was stuck out there. I've been locked up before. This ain't my first time down, so this is my third stint that I've been incarcerated. I did a state bid when I had just turned 19 and then did a couple years in federal custody and now coming back for the third time. And so I knew how to avoid certain pitfalls. I knew how to maneuver. I mean, similar to how I was doing on the streets, man. I knew how to stay out the way and I knew that I didn't want no parts of the stupid, repetitive stuff that goes on in prison. I knew that wasn't. That wasn't for me. I had done that enough times and kept getting the same results that, you know, I knew. I knew I wanted something different, but I still didn't know what I was missing. And so I was still doing the same things as I was doing on the streets. I'm checking all the boxes. I'm doing the right things. I'm staying out of trouble. I'm real good at staying out of trouble. Once I get into trouble, then I stay out the way. But I was still stuck internally. Personally, I was still stuck. And it wasn't until I started getting around really, even brothers that was in the same situation I was in, brothers that was locked up with me, brothers like Damar, that was at certain places in their personal lives, man, fruitful places in their lives that they was really getting something out of life and getting something out of their relationships with other people. And that connection, man, that, like, connection is. Is huge for me. Being in the space with the podcast team and with the brothers that I've been around, that I've tried to surround myself around since I've been incarcerated, this time have really showed me what it's like to let the guards down and connect with people, man. I'm super protective. I got trust issues. I don't really give people that much information. I always tell cats I'm on a need to know basis. I don't just volunteer information if I don't feel like you need to know something. And it's not even that I'm trying to hide stuff or hold shit back. Is that my impulse, my habit is that if it's not information that's fruitful for the situation, like, I don't have no business sharing it. It feels weird to talk about shit, just to talk about shit. I have to force myself to do that. But when you're creating with people, when you're being artistic and expressive and building and connecting with people, you can't be closed off. It doesn't work.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

Hey, this is one of your hosts of Concrete Mama, the podcast. D. Nelson in red here.

[Damar]

Concrete mom of the podcast.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

So, hey, man, we're back.

[Damar]

Yes, we're back.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

We're back. Concrete Mama the Podcast Season two. I'm happy to be back in your car. I'm happy to be back in your living room rooms while you're doing your laundry, man.

[Damar]

Get ready, because we got a lot of dope stuff for you. This year, bro. This season one was cool, but season two is gonna blow it out of

[Red (John Kerwin)]

the water, and it's an exciting thing to be able to be back for season two, bro. I'm excited because a lot of things happened in between season one and dropping season two. We had that community event that was powerful. Absolutely, extremely powerful.

[Zach Bentz]

Hey, everybody. I just want to encourage everybody to come file in. We still have a few open seats up here. So tonight we're here to come together in community to not only celebrate the amazing success of season one of Concrete Mama, the podcast, but also unincarcerated productions. You know, what started as this, like, fleeting idea in my head when I was in cell G31 in unit 10 in the east complex of the Washington State Penitentiary has turned into something more amazing than I ever could have imagined. To see all of your smiling faces here, it, like, fills me with so

[Megan Sanchez]

much

[Zach Bentz]

peace and joy and gratitude because, you know, a lot of times when you're in prison, it can be a really, really dark place, and you find moments of light or inspiration or motivation to keep going. And to see it turn into something like this is just, like, beyond my wildest dreams. So I just want to thank each and every one of you for being here. And I just want to say, tonight we're in celebration of a simple idea to shift the societal paradigm and humanize the justice impacted community through storytelling. And each and every one of you are contributing to that tonight.

[Chris Gates (Grazy)]

So thank you.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

A bunch of people from the community, a bunch of people in the world were affected and touched by the podcast. And we ended up doing a really, really big collaboration with none other than himself. Earlonne woods, man from Ear Hustle.

[Zach Bentz]

So I would like to introduce each of our panelists one by one. First of all, a very, very special guest tonight who came all the way from the Bay area. We have Mr. Earlonne woods, the host of Ear Hustle.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

And I think that that was really, really huge. So many people are fans of the Ear Hustle podcast, and so many people are fans of Earlonne himself. And I think to be able to get him up here, to spend time with him, sit with him, and him to be a guest here, coming back inside the prison and then going out into the community, that was really, really huge, man. What was that like from your perspective? To see him, meet him, and then collab with him, it tripped me out

[Damar]

how down to earth he was like. He was just like one of the fellas, and it was really easy to talk to him and pop it with him. So yeah, he was a cool dude. I also enjoyed seeing how many people from the community supported us. Like, we got a lot of people that are backing us out there, man. And it's a trip how many people showed up and showed out, man, and how many people were just proud of the things that we're doing and just also want to be a part of it.

[Molly]

That was just one of the best community events, honestly, that I've gone to.

[Damar]

That's the voice of Molly, a Walla Walla resident who attended the event.

[Molly]

I was proud of Walla Walla in that moment. I was like, dang, we can do this. I think I met Demar's wife, Vanessa. I could just see her, you know, kind of beaming in pride. If you think mythologically, say young men, they go off and they go through some deep process of initiation. They go through some ordeal, right? And then they get welcomed back into their community, and they're changed. And you guys spent years in this transformative process that is like the going down into the land of the dead, right? And that's what so many of our important stories are about. You're changed when you're in there. If you are able to use that in a mindful way, let yourself be transformed by that and not lost in it. And what you bring back, that's that elixir of life that they talk about in the old stories. Right. And you're sharing that with these other people who desperately need it. And it's not just the people who are stuck in those ways. It's like there's all kinds of people walking around out here that are stuck in a thousand different ways, too.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

I like to say this, too. Like, after season one dropped. We just dropped one season. But Concrete Mama is a movement.

[Ken Atouga]

Yeah.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

It's not just a podcast. It's a movement, man. I'm proud to be a part of that. And for us to see what was going on in the community, we actually got a chance to video record ourselves speaking to the crowd, to the community. This was a crowd of people who were fans of Concrete Mama, the podcast fans of Ear Hustle, Walla Walla residents, Washington state residents, and people from all around the country.

[Zach Bentz]

Earlong.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

What do you want those in attendance at this event tonight to know about us that are behind bars?

[Earlonne Woods]

Well, I. I definitely want individuals to know that people behind bars are not the worst thing that they've done in their life. I think everybody in prison is redeemable, you know, and some learn quicker than others. You know, some change their lives because at the end of the day, 95% of people that go to prison is getting out. And the question is, how do you want that person to be when they get out? Programs like Concretemma, those little things is what help individuals become better individuals.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

Being able to speak to those guys, speak to my wife, she was in attendance, speak to the community members, speak to DOC staff. People that work at headquarters, that support us was huge. Tim Lang, Cheryl Strange, our superintendent, Rob Jackson, Huge, man. Even our cus Odell came out. There was a bunch of staff sergeants, people that work here, that work in close custody, along with people's families. And that was monumental because a lot of the times, DOC people's families being at an event together, it's kind of like unheard of. So that's why I like to say this is a movement.

[Damar]

So, Andy, you chose to stay in

[Chris Gates (Grazy)]

the Walla Walla community when you got out.

[Damar]

What does that meant to you, having

[Chris Gates (Grazy)]

the support that you have here?

[Anthony Colbert]

That's a good question. It means a lot. Look, how many people are here right now? How many people here from Walla Walla? Let's make some noise. How many people travel to be here? Let's make some noise. I think that answers it for me. What does that feel like? You know, just to know that so many people are out here because you were inspired cause you believed. Cause you felt something when you listened to this podcast or you felt something when you heard somebody else talk about it, which made you go listen to it, right? I chose to stay out here because I had a huge support, which was Whitman College. You know, they believed in me before I even believed in myself, that I was gonna get out, man. It was a thing in my mind when I first met the provost at the time was Alzada Tipton. And she came up to me and she said, after I gave a presentation, she said, I hope to one day see you at Whitman. And I'm like, that'd be cool, right? I got a 36 year sins, 2042 is my ERD. I'm gonna be like 55. What's that gonna look like, you know? But she told me something one time when she drove by here at my second presentation I gave for a Whitman class inside. She said every time she drove by, she said, I think about you. I think about the day that you get to walk our campus. And I'm like, man, this lady's really persistent about me coming to Whitman. You know, I just started being able to cultivate relationships, you know what I'm saying? In the Community itself, right? And when the opportunity came, when I got to go to clemency and she even spoke at my hearing, the thing that blew my mind was how much support I was getting internally counselors, like counselor Fletcher, she's here somewhere, you know? You know what I'm saying? She actually helped me cultivate a little bit of what I wrote to get my thoughts together, right? There was so much support from different people inside of the institution there. I was just like, man, like, they really want to see me be successful, so why would I want to go somewhere else when all my support's right here? And so I stuck it out. I said, you know, I'll release right here. I got out, released to right here, you know. And Whitman was tangible, right? I remember Logan took me and we walked the campus that first time and it was super cool. And I'm like, I can't wait to go to school here. I gotta walk this every day. I walk that joint every day.

[Damar]

You know, I met my girl through that event, bro. That was crazy. You know, she reached out and hit me up after seeing us at the event.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

Concrete Mama love, man.

[Damar]

It's crazy. So, yeah, a lot of cool things came out of that, bro. And them giving us the. The chance to ask questions to the audience and be involved even though we

[Chris Gates (Grazy)]

couldn't be there, right?

[Damar]

Was huge, bro. And so I wasn't for sure how it was going to look because we did our pre recorded questions right, but it ended up turning out dope and it looked really good, man, and people felt like we was there.

[Chris Gates (Grazy)]

So that meant a lot to me too.

[Molly]

On the one hand, you know, I was so happy to see all those people there and to see that level of support, you know, on the other hand, it. It makes me sad while we were all there.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

And that's Anastasia. She leads the Run club inside of the prison's east complex.

[Molly]

I was proud of the people who were there, but then also ashamed is maybe too strong a word, but sad about all the people that weren't there. That building literally sort of looms over our town and it's real easy for people to ignore it, you know, and it has political implications and economic implications and it affects all of us all the time, whether you know it or not. And so while I was really happy to see so many people there, I was like, you know, everybody in town should be here. Like, we should be spilling out into the street.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

We don't get the opportunities to actually be included, present when it comes to community and feeling seen and a Lot of people inside, and we just want to be included, you know, so we speak for every person that feels like an outcast as behind barbed wire fences. And that was really, really big. And like you said, it was. It was really monumental. Like, I just keep using that word, monumental. To be able to push the needle of change and accountability and growth and be a part of our community in a new light.

[Zach Bentz]

Thank you, Anthony. And thank you to all of our panelists, especially Earlonne.

[Chris Gates (Grazy)]

You know how you got people that tell you about how fun and loving and free and all the things that life is, and if you ain't in that space, it just don't resonate with you. That's where I was at beforehand and, like, more power to them. I don't hate on people that's in that space, but I just wasn't there. The experience that I had with lockdown, I felt that, and I knew as soon as I felt it, oh, that's what this is. I felt something that I felt like I had been lost for years and I forgot what it was. And I didn't even know how. How to find it again. I felt it and I'm holding on to it, man. I met some dope people that I feel like I'm safer around, more comfortable with, closer with than people I've known my entire life. And it's. It's a humbling experience, man. It's. It's crazy. It made me. It made me open to connection, made me open to collaboration, to build into growing with people. And it really. It really put into perspective the fact that I want to challenge myself to making that more normal, to breaking on those walls, getting past that. That stigma that I have. I can't even describe it in words. It gave me a reason to wake up in the morning again. It gives me motivation, it gives me drive, it gives me power, it gives me energy, it gives me courage. It gives me all the things that I was missing when I was out there in the world that I didn't even know that I was missing. It makes me want to be the change that I want to see. As corny as that might sound, and as many times you've heard that, like, this experience, this type of connection with people really makes you feel like that. It makes you feel like you want to be better for the people that are around you.

[Rachel Cech]

Through the power of storytelling, we can change the world. I truly believe that. And that's really what we are trying to do here with Concrete Mama. And looking ahead to season two, we have some Absolutely incredible episodes planned. We're really diving into two themes this season of community and mental health. We're going to be bringing you more of the amazing humans inside of the Washington State Penitentiary and their stories. More members of the Walla Walla community. We're going to be hearing from some other justice impacted folks from outside of Washington state as well. We're going to be catching up with Anthony and hearing some updates on his life in freedom and my life and freedom. We're going to be hearing more from Demar and his wife Nessa. And of course, we're going to be bringing you more incredible wild history pieces from your favorite WSB historian. Red we are so grateful that you took that walk down the yellow brick road with us in season one and get ready for season two of Concrete Mama because it's going to be a wild, amazing ride.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

Sam,

[Damar]

We're back. I know, I know you guys were getting tired of waiting. It has been a year since the last season first dropped. That's only because we wanted to make sure we had some heat for you. Now, last year I gave you the history as I know it from reading books and newspapers. Newspapers. Also from things I gathered from archives over the years. This season is going to blow that out of the water. I actually have the man himself, Ken Atouga in the flesh. Now, some of you may remember Ken from stories about the resident government council and who was featured in Concrete Mama, the book. Also from when he climbed the water tower and stayed up there for 43 days and protest conditions in the hole and from the many escapes he was a part of. But for those of you who don't remember, let me refresh your mind. Ken came in at the age of 17, going from Shelton population to Monroe population, then here at the penitentiary at the age of 18. He immediately got on the boxing team like all other badass dudes at the time. This mixed with the fact that that there were some of his crime partners here already who could vouch for his character. His status in the prison rose quickly. You see, Ken was always the youngest in his group and the last to take from anyone. This helped cement him as a leader and a guy he didn't with as a kid. Ken escaped Green Hill, a juvenile detention center, then robbed and assaulted a drug dealer and his roommate. But he was actually released to his mother's guardianship afterwards. Afterwards hopped a bus and then flew to the Philippines within a week. Someone had to pay for the crime though, and prosecutors tried and convicted a man named Mike Christie. Christie actually did Five years for the crime. By this time, Ken had come back to the States and had been thrust back into the system. And meanwhile, Christie was almost ready to get out. Now, one of the reasons old timers in the penitentiary like Ken so much was the fact that Ken helped set the record straight and get Christie released by taking responsibility. By December of 1971, Ken was elected to be on the resident government council. Basically put into a position of power that helped make decisions for the rest of the population inside. In 1972, Ken gets into an altercation with officer Payne over a dispute Payne had with Ken Selley. Payne poked Ken in the nose with his finger and was screaming in his face. Ken took this personally, came back and beat Payne with a hammer. Ken was actually in the hole for the pain incident when he escaped and climbed the water tower, inspiring others to follow his lead. These dudes stayed up there for 43 days. They lived on a water tower the whole time. For more info, listen to season one, Episode eight. Because the protests on the water tower worked and Ken and others were released from the hole, he was back on mainline, freed into the general population. In 1974, a man named Jerry Bressler was murdered outside the chow hall and Ken got blamed for it. Now, no one had solid evidence except the word of some rats. And In January of 1975, the charges were dropped. Later in 1975 was the big thing that cemented Ken's rep as being a leader and a dude you didn't cross. Ken was made the leader of the Lifers club. Now, the Lifers club was so big because it had members from all the big clubs too. The motorcycle club, the Black Prisoners Forum Unlimited, as well as every other club could roll with the lifers as long as they were good dudes and had a life sentence. Now you can imagine why this would make them so influential inside the joint. And Ken, a guy who actually earned his life sentence inside of prison, was the main man in charge. He always used to say he wanted to be the epitome of a convict. And that was what he got back then. He became one of the most well known, feared and respected convicted ever. Now, I tell you all this because we're going to hear a lot from Ken and for good reason. He was here for all the craziest that happened back then. If he wasn't directly involved, he watched all of it happen. There's absolutely no one better to get this info from. So I'm putting the books away and I'm gonna get the history straight from the man that was here for it. Ken has made it very clear that much of his personal description as portrayed by the author of Concrete Mama is exaggerated and some outright false. He's not Filipino. He's an enrolled member of the Wintu tribe of Northern California since birth. And he's never been convicted of murder, a bombing or any sexual offense. And he's never foamed at the mouth. He's setting the record straight. Ken has evolved into a completely different person than he was back then. So I just want to thank him for opening up some of the old wounds and scars. I'm sure it hasn't been easy. This guy's actually been shot, stabbed, poisoned and hanged inside a prison. And I'm sure there's some old traumas from back then he's going to have to deal with, but he's agreed to do it. So we're getting the stories right this time. When we first started doing the podcast here at Walla Walla, I thought for sure we were the first to have anything resembling a media lab. They actually had a full on studio in the 90s. I mean these guys had multiple television and film quality cameras, sound boards and even an editing bay. It was all made possible by the penitentiary and a man that Ken has always spoken very highly of, Tim Boutts. The plans were later thwarted by a woman that was in charge here at the penitentiary at the time. But don't let me tell you all the details. Here's Ken himself.

[Ken Atouga]

John Kerwin was a professor at Downtown College and at Pullman. He taught at Pullman and he taught media technology. So he got permission to start that program as part of our college curriculum here at the institution. And he got me in the class. I dreaded going back to school, but especially algebra, which you have to have, you know. But the media tech program was amazing. John actually brought a lot of his own equipment in, he had his own production company and he focused on deep sea diving events and stuff like that, commercials and stuff. But he was a successful producer and a great teacher. So we had a three camera set up, we had switching boards, we had all of the electronic microphones and stuff like you see here, older equipment. We had an excellent editing bay. So we had to learn all the different aspects of television production and movie production. And I became really, really interested. I had my own show. We'd set panels, we'd to around panels and there's certain things you have to be aware of from both sides of the camera. If you're, if you're on the production side of the Camera like we are right now having this conversation. You have to be aware where your camera's at, who's got you on their camera and where to look and stuff like that. So there's a director behind the cameras that's giving indications and, and there's a light on the camera. And so it's stuff that, that I found amazing. So I had a little show called Ken's Corner and it would come on at four o'clock and. And we videotaped all the intramural sports in the prison. Had a pickup show where we had the football pickups and had a prize on Fridays. And it worked out good for that until Tana Wood, somehow, Tanner Wood, became aware of my interest in subliminals.

[Damar]

Who was she at the time?

[Ken Atouga]

She was superintendent.

[Red (John Kerwin)]

Okay.

[Ken Atouga]

Yeah, she was superintendent of the prison and not, not a big Kanak Duka fan.

[Damar]

Do you know how long she reigned over the prison?

[Ken Atouga]

Not long. Couple years, I think. Two, three, four years. But she had been here for a long time.

[Damar]

And what year was this? 90.

[Ken Atouga]

Between 92 and 96.

[Damar]

How old was the equipment that you guys were running on?

[Ken Atouga]

Well, the switching equipment and editing bay was new. That was all stuff that John supplied himself.

[Damar]

Okay.

[Ken Atouga]

The cameras were second generation cameras, but quality.

[Damar]

What exactly was Tana woods problem with you and the TV show Ken's Corner?

[Ken Atouga]

She actually accused me and fired me from the show. But she accused me of sending subliminal messages to the prisoners in IMU to riot. I don't know. My perspective was complete opposite of that. I was hoping that we could develop some type of programming that would involve subliminals as a way of planting affirmative affirmations in constant repetition throughout your day, throughout your night. My belief is that it takes that amount of positive affirmations to overcome all the negative affirmations that we've experienced in our lives.

[Damar]

I believe that. What kind of subliminals were you thinking about?

[Ken Atouga]

The best is under sound. I mean they use. You can find the, the calm apps they're advertising now for different type of sleep aids.

[Damar]

Oh yeah, I've seen that stuff all the time.

[Ken Atouga]

To put the message under that, where you can't hear it with the conscious mind, it's only absorbed to the subconscious.

[Damar]

White noise and green noise.

[Ken Atouga]

Right. Brown noise. Yeah. Etc Sounds, jungle sounds, water cascading speech sounds. So got you. All things that have a calming effect on the psyche. And so my vision was that. That we would put positive affirmations under there.

[Damar]

I am looking good today, right?

[Ken Atouga]

Yeah. I'm Interested in being safe. I'm interested in being secure. I'm interested in helping my family. I'm interested in not breaking the law.

[Damar]

And so you wrote a paper on this for the class you were taking and she somehow got wind of it?

[Ken Atouga]

Yes, and accused me of being Lex Lutheran.

[Damar]

Can you explain that for the people at home?

[Ken Atouga]

It was hard for me to believe what she said. In fact, she said it right to my face. And she said that my actions were Lex Luthorian. And I said, Ms. Wood, that's. That's a cartoon, you know, that's not reality. She said, said, yes, an evil one. There's nothing there. There's no argument against something like that. It just had a ducktail and leave. You know, that was. Yeah, man. She was adamant. She was assured that that's what is happening. And I don't know where she got her information from. She never explained that part.

[Damar]

So she seen that cartoon, somehow got wind of your paper and she thought that you were doing evil. Doing evil. Subliminal messages.

[Ken Atouga]

IMU prison. Just crazy.

[Damar]

Can you believe they were actually allowed to run and utilize tens of thousands of dollars worth of equipment here in the 90s? That's wild. To me, those are things that Concrete Mama and Unincarcerated have only dreamed of having now in this day and age. That story does two things for me. One is it reminds me that it only takes one person to ruin things for everyone in here. Whether that's someone incarcerated that has had a bad day or makes a bad decision with equipment, which I definitely know Ken didn't do, or one staff member who doesn't like something or gets the wrong idea about our intentions. I mean, come on. Lex Lutheran. You gotta be kidding me, man. I've heard it all. Now the other side though is that it gives me hope and excitement for the future. I think with the administration we have now, the new higher powers in Olympia, and the dream team we have with Unincarcerated Productions, the sky's the limit. I see a future where every joint in Washington state has a full on operational media lab and where incarcerated can start getting actual college credits in all forms of media. I mean, like I said, that's the goal, right?

[Craig Jackson]

That's it for this episode of Concrete Mama. But before we go, here's who makes it happen. Zach Bens is a producer and our editor, sound designer and graphic designer. Chris Gates and Nate Bowers are the audio engineers. Megan Sanchez is a producer and handles our social media content and audience engagement. Vic Chopra and Rachel Check are the showrunners and executive producers. I'm Craig Jackson, one of the newest voices of Justice Media coming at you from inside the prison walls in Walla Walla. The Washington State Penitentiary and Washington State DOC have made this project possible. For more information, check out our show notes and you can write to us with feedback and questions about the podcast. We will read and answer some of them on future episodes. Concrete Mama is more than a podcast. It's a platform for voices that need to be heard. If this episode resonated with you, share it, support it, leave us a five star rating and keep listening. You can find unincarcerated productions on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, and various other social media platforms. Thanks for listening.