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"Show Them Who You Are"

Concrete Mama: The Podcast

Mon Mar 10 2025

Summary

Concrete Mama: The Podcast - Episode Summary: "Show Them Who You Are"

Release Date: March 10, 2025
Host/Author: Unincarcerated Productions

Introduction

In the premiere episode of Concrete Mama: The Podcast, produced by Unincarcerated Productions, listeners are given an intimate glimpse into life behind the bars of the Washington State Penitentiary in Walla Walla, Washington. Hosted by Vic Chopra alongside incarcerated co-hosts Demar, Red, and Cambo, the episode titled "Show Them Who You Are" delves deep into the themes of friendship, loss, and resilience within the prison environment.

The Essence of Relationships in Prison

Vic Chopra opens the episode by setting the historical context of the penitentiary, highlighting its notorious reputation shaped by the infamous "Concrete Mama" era of the 1970s—a period marked by prisoner self-governance that spiraled into chaos and violence. Chopra shares his personal transformation during his five-year incarceration, emphasizing his mission to inspire and support his fellow inmates upon his release in 2018.

Key Discussion: Friendship and Brotherhood

Demar Nelson, one of the co-hosts, underscores the profound impact of friendships formed within prison walls. He narrates the deep bond he shared with Anthony, another host who was released on clemency. Demar reflects:

"Our friendship was the anchor that held a lot of stuff together for us... Anthony treated everybody like he seen them. It was very respectful. He had a light about him, an energy about it."
(02:28)

Navigating Loss and Grief

The episode poignantly explores the emotional turmoil following Anthony's release. Demar shares a heartfelt recorded message expressing the void Anthony's absence has created:

"You going there. You hear it? That's that sound, man... you missed around here though, man."
(08:38)

Vic Chopra elaborates on how the loss of a prison friend mirrors the experience of mourning, given the stark separation between the incarcerated and the free world. He notes:

"The loss of a friend in prison is almost like you're in mourning. It's almost like a death."
(12:36)

Building Trust and Facing Betrayal

Cambo and Red discuss the challenges of building and maintaining trust within the prison system. Cambo shares his struggles with forming lasting connections:

"I get let down a lot because I give everybody a chance. I can easily become friends with people, but then as soon as they do something... I gotta be like, man, I can't with that."
(17:13)

Red adds his perspective on maintaining deep connections:

"People just come in and out of your life like it's nothing... for me, I give my all."
(19:24)

Estrangement from the Outside World

The hosts discuss the difficulties of sustaining relationships outside prison, especially after a friend’s release. Demar highlights the strain on such bonds:

"The world and what the world demands won't allow them to do that. It has a strain on the relationship."
(16:05)

Cambo touches on the futility of using pen pal websites, expressing disappointment in the lack of meaningful connections:

"I've never had any good hits on there... It's a waste since I did it."
(26:29)

Resilience and Perseverance

Despite the emotional challenges, the hosts emphasize resilience as a key takeaway from their experiences. Vic Chopra remarks on the lessons learned:

"It teaches you resilience. And it teaches you how to pick yourself back up and, like, move on."
(29:04)

Demar reinforces the importance of perseverance, stating:

"People can get sent to the hole that's like your best friend. And then you could just never see them again."
(30:02)

Historical Context: Concrete Mama Era

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to recounting the "Concrete Mama" era of the Washington State Penitentiary. Red narrates the experiment of prisoner self-governance initiated in the mid-1970s, which inadvertently led to increased violence and instability within the facility. This historical backdrop is essential for understanding the current dynamics and the enduring legacy of the penitentiary.

"In the mid-70s, two out of towners... immersed themselves inside and wrote the book 'Concrete Mama'. This was the first time in U. S. History that prisoners were granted the power to govern themselves."
(39:05)

Conclusion and Future Directions

As the episode wraps up, Vic Chopra and the hosts reaffirm their commitment to revealing the unfiltered truths of prison life. They pledge to continue sharing personal stories, historical accounts, and ongoing struggles faced by those within the penitentiary system.

Final Inspiring Message:

Demar offers a powerful closing thought to Anthony, emphasizing the importance of authenticity and self-representation upon reintegration into society:

"Show them who you are. Don't hide that from nobody, man. Show them who you are out there."
(31:11)

Looking Ahead

The episode concludes with teasers for upcoming content, including deeper dives into prison history and personal adjustment stories post-release. The production team extends gratitude to contributors and supporters, setting the stage for a season rich with compelling narratives and transformative insights.

Notable Quotes:

"You can't just text them or make plans to see each other again in a few weeks." — Vic Chopra (12:36)
"Resilience. And it teaches you how to, like, pick yourself back up and, like, move on." — Vic Chopra (29:04)
"Show them who you are. Don't hide that from nobody, man." — Demar Nelson (31:11)

Key Themes:

Friendship and Brotherhood: The unbreakable bonds formed in prison and the profound impact of losing a close friend.
Loss and Grief: Navigating emotional pain akin to mourning when a friend is released.
Trust and Betrayal: The challenges of building trustworthy relationships in a volatile environment.
Resilience: The essential role of perseverance and personal growth in overcoming adversity.
Historical Insight: Understanding the roots of the penitentiary's reputation through the "Concrete Mama" experiment.

Conclusion:

"Show Them Who You Are" sets a compelling foundation for Concrete Mama: The Podcast, effectively intertwining personal narratives with historical context to offer listeners a multifaceted view of life inside the Washington State Penitentiary. Through honest conversations and emotional depth, the episode invites audiences to reconsider preconceived notions about the prison industrial complex and the human stories within it.

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Transcript

Vic Chopra (0:00)

This program contains mature language and themes that may not be suitable for all listeners. Discretion is advised. Welcome to Concrete, the podcast coming to you from the Washington State Penitentiary in Walla Walla, Washington. I'm Vic Chopra, co founder of Unincarcerated Productions and your guide on this journey. We're opening the gate and taking listeners inside the penitentiary walls, which were first built all the way back in 1886, three years before Washington was even a state. Because of its nearly 150 year history, Washington state Penitentiary has earned a reputation for being dangerous and violent, most likely due to a very famous experiment in the 1970s where power was handed over to the prisoners for self governance. It was during this time that the prison earned the name Concrete Mama. When a book by the same name was published documenting life inside during this era, we wanted to pick up where the book left off, bringing listeners inside and telling the stories of what life is like now. I was incarcerated at this institution for five years and was released in 2018. You know, I turned what many believe is the worst thing that could ever happen to you into the best thing that could happen. I got sober and rebuilt myself mentally, physically and spiritually. And I now go back into this place where I did my healing to work with the guys inside. You know, it's important to me to not only share my story of transformation, to inspire my incarcerated brothers and show them that they can do the same thing, but to also come back and make it known that they are not forgotten. We start in our premiere episode with the relationships we form while doing time and the pain and loss we feel when they end. Over the five years I was incarcerated, I experienced the sting of losing deep, meaningful relationships over and over again as my friends got released and I stayed behind to grieve their physical presence in my life right now. Our other three hosts who are currently incarcerated at the penitentiary, Demar, Red and Cambo, are experiencing the loss of our fourth Concrete Mama host, Anthony, who was released over the summer on Clemency. More on Anthony later. But now let's hear from Demar.

Demar Nelson (2:28)

Thanks, Vic. This is Damar Nelson, one of your hosts on this journey through the world of Concrete Mama. You may be experiencing heaviness in your own life right now, or grief and loss, or maybe it's feeling overwhelmed with the demands from the world, which is constantly changing. I know we all experience that. I think we all know what that feels like, what it means to carry that. You know, things can feel very chaotic for everyone. It feels like you're constantly, you know, on the Verge of everything just falling apart. And whether you're out there in the free world or sitting listening to this in the cell or on the tier, I can relate to that. Just like the world is full of sudden changes, so is prison. And learning to adjust to changes is often difficult for all of us. I thought this would be a great opportunity to share the story of me and my brother Anthony. You know, our friendship was the anchor that held a lot of stuff together for us While we were both in here for years. We formed a bond as brothers that was really unbreakable. What's crazy is I think people on the outs have some misconceptions about the relationships that people form while doing prison time. Prison isn't just about scary people walking around, waiting to get into fights and, you know, get into violence. That's not what it's all about. People create solid, meaningful relationships behind these walls. We support each other through the trauma of doing time. And Anthony, you know, he was my brother and myself. You know, one of the things that really stood out to me when I first met Anthony was how he treated people. You know, I often watch how other people deal with other people and interactions. That's really huge for me because a lot of people in prison don't know what it means to value, you know, respect in relationships. And Anthony treated everybody like he seen them. You know, it was very respectful. You know, he had a light about him, an energy about it. Also his drive, that's something that we share. Anthony had a drive to grow, to learn, to do better. And on my path to doing better and growing and learning, I was like, man, this is somebody I can grow with. And also my trust. You know, often in prison, you know, it's hard to trust people, Especially when you're in a position to actually grow and make changes, or you're in a position with administration where you're doing things and they're looking for someone you can trust. I was able to trust Anthony, and honestly, since he's been gone and he's not my celly anymore, I've been struggling to actually find a celly that I can trust that won't put me in compromising situations that can ruin my opportunities. And he had his own identity. You know, Anthony was real unique in the way that he identified with people himself. He just had his own autonomy. You know, he was real independent, you know, just his own uniqueness. I liked that about him. It made me respect him. Because in prison, a lot of people are afraid to be themselves. That's just something that People deal with in here. However, you know, Anthony was released a few months ago, and with all the months of preparing for it, I still wasn't prepared for the reality of my brother's absence. So I recorded my thoughts on the first day without him. I want to share those with you now. My boy. D, man, you gone, Brody? Hey, man, I just got back from work. You know, it was. It was kind of different today, you know, just in terms of you. You being gone, man. You know, it's about 302 now, you know, just getting in. I'm in the cell right now, man. Just got in, man. Walked in, you know, Josh drove me back from work, you know, and you could. It was interesting, too, bro, because, you know, I could feel that your energy, man, was missing, bro. Me and Daniel went up to the shop, you know, man, rearrange, start cleaning and just doing stuff, man. And you could tell people was, you know, leaning on each other, man, because, you know, you was. You're a great spirit, man. Big spirit, man. Full of love, man. So you can see that everybody's just looking at me. What's up, Nathan? I'm like, what's up, man? You know, they're like, man, how you feel? I'm like, I'm good. So it was a lot of support, you know what I'm saying, on that end. And, you know, Reyes was kind of laid back. Officer Reyes, you know what I'm saying? You know, I told him, I said, you got me now. You know what I'm saying? We. We got each other, man. You know what I'm saying? You're gonna see him out there soon. Hey, it's crazy, because soon as I got back to the cell, I got the pictures of you out front, you know, in front of the prison. In front, man. He was in front, man. You know. You know, you was in it. Now you in front, you outside of it, man. So it's a lot of blessings, man, just thinking about that, you know, just getting a full visual of your journey and miss you, man. You already know what's up. You know, I'm in the room cleaning up right now. You know, I'm saying, I'm about to. You know how I do it. I'm about to turn on these cuts and clean up a little bit and do what we do. We did some IEP stuff today up at work, and then I went in there, I worked out. Then I seen. I was chopping it with red a little bit. And, you know, I'm saying, people. People were really just kind of like, you could see, like, you know, we do this time together, bro, and people kind of like, they lean on one another, man. So the fact that you're gone, I can see that people are like, man, you know, that energy, being able to plug into that individual is tough.

Demar Nelson (8:39)

You know, the day room's buzzing right now. You know, Cats is coming back from the yard and trying to figure some things out. You know, I'm looking in the day room right now as we speak, you know, to normal. The normal ebb and flow. Paco. Paco's out here right now. You know, Paco is. He's getting some stuff, man. You know, going to somebody's door, laughing, smiling, you know, so people still keeping that resilience spirit, man, despite it all, you know, and it feels good, you know what I'm saying? It feels good to be able to, you know, just look around me, man, and then not only I just look back, you know, look back and just think about it, you know, think about what my journey is going to be, moving forward, you know, you being out there in the world, you know, how you'll be still a part of my life, you know, I'm grateful for that, man. You know, because people move on in life, you know, I'm strong, bro. You know what I'm saying? I'm strong. But, yeah, it's day one. It's gonna be one of those nights, man, a lot of pondering, you know, your energy, you know, how when people leave, you know, you. We used to talk about people that left. You think about that, man, you know, you think about them and then you gotta restructure. Gotta restructure your movements, your time, my schedule, a lot worked around yours and how you did things. And so I'm gonna be thinking throughout the day, man, you know, just thinking about my life, my journey, man, how I'm gonna get home to my family, you know, being inspired, you know, by that. Being inspired by, you know, the. The support that you had, being inspired by the love that you gave and, you know, so on and so forth. And now, you know, it's crazy because the work continues. It don't stop. You know, you gonna be out there, I'm gonna be in here, and we're gonna continue to do what we do, man. You know what I'm saying? Working together, you know, I feel like I got a community late liaison now, though, man. It's gonna be different because we know each other so well, you know. Hold on, hold on, man. They. Hold on, man. They. They here to check on Me see what's going on. Oh, you know, thinking about my boy, you know, he left. I got some pictures, you know. You seen him? Huh? You seen. I got some pictures for the podcast, too, you know, for the Concrete Mama podcast, man. I'm just detailing what it's like. That's a part of the podcast, man. Remember when you first came into the prison? We talked about that, detailing what it's like without him now. And so we're still continuing the journey.

Demar Nelson (31:11)

6, 40 in the morning, 8am man, you hear them toilets flushing up there deep. Hey, cats are starting to get. Get up. Day one, waking up, man, without you, man. You know how it is around here, man, Listening to these toilets flush all day and night. You going there. You hear it? That's that sound, man. Hey, listen. That's that sound we be talking about, man. You know, hearing it all, all day, man. People's getting up, getting ready for breakfast. They probably gonna be calling it pretty soon, but like I said, you ain't got to hear that no more, man. Cat being, you know, getting a good sleep. And you hear these toilets and these buttons pinging off these, these sinks from pushing these, the hot and cold water. But they gonna be calling mainline pretty soon, man, so, you know, hopefully, man, I can, I can, I can on my way to work, man, you know, hoping I can get some people, man. I'm trying to. I'm gonna see if I can get some people, man. Let them express they self, man. Speak to you too, man. Speak to you, man. You know, you missed around here though, man. It's early. I got up with the hot pot popping. I'm drinking my coffee now, you know, one creamer this morning. Morning. You know, I'm usually two. I'm one creamer, hazelnut to be exact. And I just got through watching, man. He was just watching me a little bit of that word, man, and thinking about my plan, man. You know, my plan. You know, we always gotta continue to, to, to crystallize our plan. So, bro, even while you're out there, man, you know, continue to crystallize your plan, man. Because like I told you when we woke up the morning you left, bro, I was like, d. Anthony, man, the work just is, is just beginning, you know, you left at what, 18? You left at, you left at 18. Hold on, man, let me wait for this toilet. And flushing these toilets everywhere. Hey, you left at 18, man, and you returned an adult, man, you know, and so now you're learning to navigate the world as an adult. You don't identify with the gang no more. You don't identify with violence and bad habits. You don't identify with the ego war. We have a lot of ego wars in the world trying to prove ourselves, fighting to be respected and seen for things that really don't do anything but gratify our issues and gratify our egos. You know, they gratify us in some way, you know, because I think it's a self esteem thing. So now that you out there, bro, you're identifying as an, as a man, making sure you, you remember all the things you learned over the years, man. So, so many people poured so much into you. And I think People pour into us when they believe in us, you know, they believe in us. You know, I'm saying it's like we put into the cup because we look to drink from that cup, you know? Right, man. You know, now you're going to be out there, man, pouring into other people's cups and people get a chance to meet you. I'm often fascinated. I want to say too, man, about the people that haven't met us yet. You know, I always think about that. You know, I sit back and daydream about someone, some kid, some child, some woman, the business partner, you know, the friend, the neighbor who gets an opportunity to finally meet me. So I had these visions and I used to share them with you, bro, but now there's people that have been wandering around in the world, living their lives. They had no idea that you were going to bump into them. People have no idea that they're going to bump into me in the future. Future. And I want to retrace, man. You had no idea I was going to bump into you. You know, before we came to this prison, man, and I didn't think we would be cellies, you know, we met and we start hanging out and going to work together was building our friendship, you know, I didn't think we would be that tight. No one foresees that. Nobody says I'm making this friends and we're going to be this close. It just happened. And that's why I say, man, I'm so grateful because after I left Shelton, the last prison I was in, after falling on my face, man, and having a huge setback and having to learn to get back on that horse, continue to believe in my change and continue to believe in the path of, you know, someday I'll be free. So let me continue to get back up and seek doing the right thing, you know, regardless of how far I fail. And you help, help me with that, man, coming here. Because anytime a person goes to a new prison, man, you know, it's always someone that's, you know, kind of lets them know, hey, this is what's going on, get involved in this. And now it's like, I've played that role so many times, and when I got here, you know, you were able to play that role for me. And guess what? I'm right back in that role. You know, I'm trying to find other individuals that I can help lift up, find other other individuals I can empower to change their lives, man, because we can't leave this place, bro, unless we leave different and I really believe that, bro. It's impossible. Like, we can't leave unless we leave different, man. All the people I know that kind of got stuck, and they're staying the same. They stayed. You know, just think about it, bro. You came after a lot of people, but you left before them. You know, there's people we know been up in this thing, man, 28, 32 years, man. Some of them people ain't took one class, man. Not one class. They ain't went and got no ged. And I'm not talking bad about those people. I'm just, like, being incarcerated, I think we both learned, fam. It was like. Like, I gotta take advantage of my opportunity. And that's a life lesson. I'm taking advantage. So when people meet you out there, man, take advantage. You remember when you went to your clemency here, my guy? What I tell you, bro? What I tell you? Remember what our mantra was? Show them who you are. Don't hide that from nobody, man. Show them who you are. Because I think for the longest when we've been incarcerated and we was locked up and you was in here with me, and I think that's really what our fight is, that silent fight to show people who we are. You know, you interact with staff, and they look at you with a third eye if you're respectful, because you're different. You know, you're dealing with inmates, people that are locked up, like us, man, and they look at you like, why is he doing that? You know, people doubt what they don't understand. They look at us through squinted eyes, you know, And I can kind of understand that to some degree, right? Because they look at a computer to kind of define who they're going to deal with, which kind of makes it difficult not only on us, but it kind of makes it difficult for them, too, because sometimes what you read about a person isn't exactly who that person is. It's what they've done. But you can't tack that to them and say, this is who they are. I'm going to peg them. They won't change. They can't grow. I don't want to deal. That does more harm to them. Because they don't know how we met those circumstances, senses why we made those choices. Great people make big mistakes, bro, like, all the time. So, man, show them who you are out there, man. Show them who you are out there, man.

Cambo (41:29)

Because I've spent the last 10 years of my sentence here in the penitentiary. Walla Walla has become a part of who I am as a person. It'll be a part of my life that I'll never forget. There's so many wild stories and almost no one except the locals and people who have done time here that know them. I've submerged myself into the history of this place trying to find out if the stories and folklore I've heard over the years are true or not. So that I can share them with you. In every episode, we're going to share with you pieces of the history of this place. And to start, I'm going to take you into a very specific time when the name Concrete Mama was born. In the mid-70s, two out of towners named John McCoy and Ethan Hoffman moved here to take their first journalism jobs at the local paper, the Union Bulletin. They had the assignment of covering local food, religion and the prison. And it didn't take long before they were convinced that the penitentiary was the most fascinating story in town. What they couldn't understand was why the newspaper's management believed that the best way to live with the prison was to ignore it, to keep it in the shadows. So after a few years, they quit their jobs to immerse themselves in this place every day for four months. After risking their safety to become part of the community and roaming unescorted through the prison day after day, they merged with this book called Concrete Mama. While inside they uncovered a diverse community with its own economy, culture and factions who were vying for power within the prison. This was the first time in U. S. History that prisoners were granted the power to govern themselves because of a controversial experiment put together by the governor, a psychiatrist and a local warden. What started in response to a need for change and reform due to prison riots in the 1950s and later a series of rebellions that happened nationally, including the infamous 1971 Attica prison uprising became something wilder than anyone could have predicted at the time. The governor, Dan Evans, who was a liberal republican, decided to appoint a psychiatrist named Dr. William Conti, with no experience in the justice system to a position called called head of institutions. And the warden named B.J. ray, a local of Walla Walla was already in the midst of his own sweeping reforms, including prisoners being able to wear their own street clothes, grow their hair however they wanted, make and have their own money, and even go outside the walls on occasion to visit their families. Inspired by the progressive prison models they saw in Scandinavian countries, their goal was to implement similar programming at the penitentiary. What started with good intentions soon turned into something that spiraled out of control because at the same time they were implementing self governance, the prison population became seriously overcrowded with younger, more violent people. Also, those impacted by the Vietnam War, and people who were already addicted to drugs like heroin and cocaine. Tensions were also high between rival factions that formed during this time, like the Prison Motorcycle association that was full of different outlaw biker gangs, the Black Prisoners, Forum Unlimited, the Chicano Club, the Lifers Club, and others who vied for power. And to top it off, the prison administration was struggling to put in structures of support that would ensure self governance could be effective. This caused the penitentiary to become a melting pot for more violence, rape, and murder. All of this is chronicled in the book Concrete Mama. And we'll be taking a more of a deep dive into this as the season progresses. What the book did for a short time was bring many of the stories that would have remained in the shadow into the light. But did it really make a difference or change anything? We still see prisons and prisoners as separate from society. And that's kind of the point, right? This prison still has a bad reputation today, even though things are a lot different with a new era of reforms. Even when people get their chain bag that says which prison they're going to, if it says Walla Walla, everybody's like, no, trust me, I was one of those people. So we're going to give you a front row seat to our lives and to us coming out of the shadows, we hope this time it makes a difference.