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- [00:00]
Rachel Cech
This program contains mature language and themes that may not be suitable for all listeners. Discretion is advised.
- [00:15]
Vanessa Nelson
Hey, my love. I just wanted to take a moment to tell you what's on my mind. I'm just sitting here reminiscing. From the time we were teenagers until now, our bond has never wavered. We've grown, we've changed. And yet our love has only deepened. It hasn't faded or lost its spark. It only became stronger, more real. What I admire most about you is your resilience. You don't fade under pressure. No matter what life throws at you, no matter how many times you get knocked down, you always find a way to stand back up. You don't just keep going. You reposition yourself, move forward, and push through. That kind of strength is rare, and it's one of the many reasons why I love you. I've always prayed for God to keep you and Avanye close. That he wouldn't grow up carrying resentment or feeling like he missed out on having his father in his life. That he respects you for the man and father you are to him. I pray that even in your situation, you would still be the father he needs. And, baby, God has answered my prayers. He is answering them. Just the other day, Avanye told me, even though Daddy left when I was one, it never felt like he wasn't in my life. That right there speaks volumes, baby.
- [01:46]
Demar Nelson
Andrew McCarthy is interested in more than just a good listen. He's having no trouble. Could you.
- [01:52]
Vanessa Nelson
Could you say it again?
- [01:53]
Andrew McCarthy
He smell her in the white Bronyrsks.
- [02:00]
Demar Nelson
This is Demar Nelson. This is my story.
- [02:08]
Rachel Cech
It's the Demar show, presented by Concrete Mama.
- [02:15]
Demar Nelson
Okay, here we go. Here we go, man. It's an interesting thing to be. To talk about my life, man, you know, and then to have to relive it. I mean, it's necessary. It's necessary for various reasons. So, you know, I grew up in. In the Central District of Seattle. The Central District is an area that was largely an African American community. I was raised by my great great grandmother. This was my mom's dad's mother. She lived in that house when she was little. And her mom was alive when I was a kid. So I was raised by my great great great grandmother, too. On her side, they migrated from Texas. Okay. And on the Nelson's on that side, they migrated from Detroit. And they were Cherokee and black. I learned recently that, you know, the Nelson name came from one of my ancestors who actually grew up on a South Dakota plantation. He murdered somebody there fighting for his wife and changed his name to Nelson Fleen. I just learned that like two weeks ago. But for my dad, that's.
- [03:19]
Eric Smith
That's some vital history right there. It's vital family history right here.
- [03:23]
Demar Nelson
There was a lot of love in that house. My grandma opened her doors to everybody. My aunt's there, my cousins there, One of my brothers and sisters was there. Later on, as I grew up, my cousins and the people that stayed there, they were also suffering from addiction. She did the best she could. I wasn't spoiled. But after her raising her own five kids, there was really no room for me to really get the attention that I. That I really needed as a young man. You know, my mom left me with her when I was seven months. She was dealing with drug addiction. My dad wasn't around. You know, I never had the best of anything, you know, but because my grandma, she was old school, you know, she wasn't gonna buy me no Jordans or nothing like that, but I had clothes on my back and food in my belly. My grandma's affection was old fashioned. You know, coming from Texas, I didn't get a lot of that. You know, a lot of people that come from older generations, they very rarely say I love you. Especially growing up in a household with a lot of old fashioned women from Texas. They just, they never said I loved you. But she did it in various ways by showing me love. I would sit on the porch with my grandma and she would, you know, grease my scalp. She made this banana pudding, man. And I remember, you know, she would always call me in there to lick the spoon. You know, me and her had a really, really good relationship, though. You know, when my mother was busy with, you know, her life and what she was dealing with, my grandmother stepped up to the plate even though she was tired. My grandma was really old. She yelled at me a lot. She would have to catch me to whoop me, you know what I'm saying? So. And also in my household was my grandfather Bobby. And he was Detroit too. An amazing man. Was really quiet, wasn't violent. They had been married for about 50 something years. My grandfather Bobby was a very quiet provider. Okay. He retired from the steel mill in Seattle over there in west Seattle. He bought me my first bicycle ever, you know, because I remember growing up, I never had a bike. So I used to always take bikes and put them together. Took me to Costco, man, and let me pick out a bike. I know, so.
- [05:22]
Eric Smith
So when you say quiet provider, what do you mean by that?
- [05:25]
Demar Nelson
He didn't make a lot of noise, man. You know, he went to the store every day. My grandfather had an obsession with making sure we had all the toilet paper and paper towels. My grandma would blow up on him. Like, we don't. That would be his thing. Every day he'd go take a trip to the store, cut out coupons and make sure he goes and buys paper towels. You know, he could never have enough paper towels and he used the paper towel for everything. Paper towel was the coaster. The paper towel went on over the cup. The paper towel covered up his food. The paper towel covered up his food when it went in the microwave. Paper towel went on around his spoon when it was sitting on the table. Like, I never really had a lot of role models in my life, but as far as, like a lot of the stuff that I learned about taking care of yourself, it came from my grandfather, Bobby. Cleanliness, yeah, all that stuff. Like, he was really big on that. And he loved me, man, he really did love me. He loved me in a way that I'm just now starting to understand this household because it had so much going on. I wasn't raised to thrive. I was raised to survive. I was always one of them kids who was very impulsive, just do stuff, you know what I mean? I was diagnosed with all the add. I was on Ritalin at one point. I went through that, but my grandmother made a big deal out of getting me off of that because I wouldn't eat my food. In and out of my stages of growing up as a young man, the coming and going, the coming and going, that's something that's been a theme in my life leading up into my adult adulthood was my family members kind of being in and out.
- [07:01]
Eric Smith
Your grandmother was the only constant?
- [07:03]
Demar Nelson
Yeah, she was very consistent. Up until the time she passed me, my grandmother was always really, really close. There was really no supervision. She was too old. My grandfather, he was. He's in bed by 5:00. He's not there to really be a consistent disciplinarian. My grandfather, he took my, my literacy seriously. My grandfather Bobby, that's all he talked about was need to learn how to read. You need to know how to read, read, read, read. And at the time going to school, he wanted me to have like extra time into that. So he hired our next door neighbor to come and grab me twice a week and I would go over there and learn how to read. That's what's up, you know what I'm saying? And remember any of the books that.
- [07:43]
Eric Smith
You started off reading?
- [07:44]
Demar Nelson
I don't Man, I don't remember any of those books.
- [07:54]
Rachel Cech
Coming up at 8, an all new episode of Keeping up with the Nelsons.
- [07:59]
Vanessa Nelson
So me and Demar met in 2003. I remember actually I was going to the mall to actually meet somebody else who stood me up that day. And Demar was actually with a few of his friends, so we were both walking the same way. And I remember him coming up to me, and he was like, hey, you know, And I already knew who he was because he tried talking to me previously when I was like. I think it was like a year or two prior to that. And I had. I told him. I was like. When he tried talking to me, I'm like, boy, you are too young. Like, how old are you? And he's like, baby, it's not about the age. It's about the stage. And I'm like, come on. And I started cracking up, though. And I know he thought he had me because he had me laughing. And I did give him my number. I did from there. I remember him calling me that evening. I told him I was in the church because I was like, you know, before, when he tried to talk to me, he actually knew my nephew. So I already knew. I already had some type of history with him. I knew who he was. So when he called me, I had told him, you know, hey, I don't go out to the clubs or anything like that no more. You know, I go to church. And he was like, it's cool. You know, I can go to church with you. And I'm like, we was talking all the time. He actually did come to church with me a couple times, so that was kind of cool. But we started really getting close. Like, he would come to my house, I would come to his house, and we would talk about both of our little friends that we had, you know, people we liked and stuff like that. So we really had a friendship in the beginning. I wasn't tripping on him. You know, he wouldn't trip on me if somebody called my phone or anything like that. And again, we were still both yelling. But then as we started getting serious, I just remember my little emotions took over. And I used to be like, who is this? Who is that? You know how that goes. So as time was going forward, I just remember my friends, they would always tell me, like, girl, do you know how old he is? He's like, only, like, 16. I was like, no, he can't be 16. And he told me he was actually, I think, a senior in high school. I just was already in love, I guess what you would call, quote unquote, puppy love. But, you know, he had me sucked in at that time. So we just kept going forward. He would take my car sometimes he would go to his family's house and I used to want to go to. You know, it'd be holidays and stuff like that. And I always wanted to meet his family. But his grandmother, he was really, really close to his grandma. We actually call her mama. That was his mom. Like, literally someone who raised him. He loved his mama. And when I met his grandmother, I was able to be myself. You know, we just talked and talked. Then after that, we built our own relationship. And I would call her. She would actually call me sometimes, too. She would tell me things that's happened in the family. Probably didn't know, but it was a lot that, like, she would share out with me, you know, but always kept it in confidence, right? I think she trusted me. There was things that, you know, when mar. Me and him would have little issues and stuff like that, that was somebody I could confide in. I would call her and she'd be like, that dang the ma. But she had her own choices of words. And everybody that knows her, you know, we know how mama talk now. His grandfather raised him as well, right along with his mom, our mama. Even when I stayed with him that couple of weeks, I would come in the house, I'd be like, hi, Bobby. He would be like, yeah, okay. He never would say hi. Like, I remember one time he told me to put a napkin over my food, right? He said, yeah. Cause when you don't put a napkin on the food, it splatters everywhere in the microwave. And I was like, oh, okay. You know? And from that day on, it's like he would teach me little things. He would talk to me. And I think people are kind of surprised because he wouldn't talk to nobody.
- [11:32]
Andrew McCarthy
The whole project will collapse.
- [11:34]
Demar Nelson
When I was about 12 years old, I got some news that my father was trying to get his life together. You know, my father was also, you know, dealing with addiction. My grandmother placed a lot of emphasis on my father taking care of me. But she would tell him, if you're going to come get this boy, you need to get your life, right? She started to talk to me about me going to live with my dad. My dad would start to pop up every now and then, and he would come get me, but he would have to drive me off at nighttime. My grandma wouldn't let me spend the night over there. Now I'm spending Weekends with my dad, my dad's getting clean and sober. And I would go to actually sobriety meetings with my father. You know, when I was a kid, I would sit in there and listen to adults express themselves. It empowered me. They would call on me. I would say, hey, my name is Damar Nelson. I'm 12, and I got 12 years clean and sober. And everybody would laugh, you know. And so between the time that my dad came to get me from my grandmother, I would get suspended from school. Leading into my teenage years, you know, just having those impulsive, just kind of like malicious mischief behaviors. That's something that I really dealt with.
- [12:43]
Eric Smith
What was school like?
- [12:44]
Demar Nelson
When I was in school, I always achieved well, you know, I did a great in school when I was paying attention. I really excelled in language arts and reading when I was in elementary taking a test. And I read at a high school level. Fast Forward to like 2. When my dad came back around. That was when my life was starting to kind of balance out a little bit. So around the time I was 13, my dad started to get clean. You know, most of my friends and all the people I grew up with know they didn't have a dad. They either had their mom or their grandmother. When my dad came around, I was kind of like the cool kid because I had my dad. Nobody had their dad. At the end of the block at my grandmother's house, there's this bus stop. When my dad used to get off the bus, I used to just run and, man, like, jump in his arms, man. And that was the greatest feeling ever. Like my dad, you know what I mean? Spending that time with my dad was huge because I started learning how to take care of myself. You know, I would get baths, but my dad taught me how to wash between my, you know, my ass cheeks, taught me how to wash behind my ears years. How to take care of myself properly. You know, the things that a man teaches his son. Pick the right shoes out. Now I'm getting cool shoes and stuff like that. And so, you know, that's my weekend, the highlight of my weekend. I'm 13 at the time. Eventually, him and my. My grandmother sat me down and was like, you're going to be going to live with your father. How do you feel about that? And that was huge. But I ain't gonna lie, it was. It was also a heartbreaker because I had been with my grandma my whole life, man. And when you're young and you leave somebody like that, you feel like you're leav behind. Like, I'm Never gonna get her back. You know what I mean? But having my dad in my life was essential. He was clean now. He had regular transportation. I'm spending time with him. Him and his girlfriend's coming to pick me up. And, you know, I'm starting to look at the world a little bit different, you know, in terms of, you know, somebody got me. My dad was important, though, because he taught me kind of like how to be a man with my emotions, right? He's like, all right, get all your stuff. You coming? I'm on my way. D. Today's the day I'm coming. He called. I had all my stuff packed, you know, all my little. And when my dad came to get me, I remember kissing and crying. My grandma, dad was like, d, you gonna come back? You're gonna be. You're gonna see her on the weekend we left. And I remember looking out the window and I see my grandmother standing on the porch. And I cried like a baby, man.
- [15:07]
Eric Smith
Absolutely.
- [15:08]
Demar Nelson
My dad was like, man, we got in the car, man, Quit all that crying, man. You know, now I got the male presence in my life. He lived in a split level home at one point for people that are, like, transitioning. Kind of like a home that you can. You share a bath, chair, kitchen, okay? And he. That we had one bed in there. He had his tv. Because my dad had been incarcerated before. So I remember this clear TV he had in there. He had his car, and I had my stuff, and I used to. I just slept. I had a bed next to his. It was just me and my dad, man. And that was the coolest thing ever. He moved out of that, and then we got an apartment, so we ended up moving far. My dad was working at nights. I did pretty well on and off in school, but I had behavioral issues. I got in trouble. Suspended once. He didn't know what to do. My dad's young at the time. He's never parented, so we got into counseling. I spent a lot of time in counseling when I was young. I was one of the only kids that could actually have coffee in class because they said it reverses adhd. Coffee calms down hyper people. We was really, like, going through a lot of counseling when I was young, just trying to figure it out. Leading up into the time I was in high school, there wasn't a lot going on. I still had my friends, a lot of them guys that I grew up with that was into the gangs because my dad was around. A lot of that stuff kind of kept itself at bay. And I Would hang with those guys. But there was a standard for me. And then about freshman sophomore year, I started to kind of excel. Counseling was helping. I had a consistent home, which was really cool because my dad had a girlfriend who used there, made sure we ate clove. Everything was going well. I played football in high school. I would have a scout come see me. I used to be on the news a lot. Eric and Terry Metcalfe were my football coaches. So these are father and sons who've been to the NFL, right? And they were like, if this guy stays on the right track, like, we can get him to the league. I was like, one of the fastest freshmen in school. People used to come find me to race in the halls. Man, everything was actually, like, kind of balanced out. I had just met my girlfriend, who's my wife now, about 15 years old. Her name's Vanessa. Very good. Sweet woman. She thought I was 18. I lied about my age, you know?
- [17:21]
Vanessa Nelson
But what really made me fall in love with demar is his charisma, his tenacity, how mature he was, for one, that he was different. He was different from even the dudes that he hung around, you know, he had a lot of. I would use the word hustle about him, but he just had get up and go. Everything that he did, he remastered, I would say.
- [17:45]
Demar Nelson
Losing. All of a sudden, unbeknownst to me, my dad, though he was clean, he still had some things going on in the streets, his lifestyle. And so around my freshman year, my dad ended up going to prison. The football, the track, there's nobody really to supervise me. My dad's girlfriend, she's not my mom. And I'm taking advantage of that, right? Nobody's coming to my games. Only people coming to the games are my friends. They're gang members. Eventually, I kind of just fell off. I was disinterested in sports. I started only showing up when it was time to play in the games. So by the time he got out, you know, I was 18, 17. I'm all the way involved. I'm a totally different person. I'm not in sports no more. My wife, who. My wife, now I'm at her house a lot. I was really, like, broken, trying to find my way. I went to school up until the time I was a season senior in high school. I'm coming to school late. I'm tardy all the time. Now my dad's talking to me on the phone. If I'm home, his friends is writing him and telling him about me in prison, that I'm out in the streets, I'm driving. I'm in stolen cars. A year after he left, I started stealing cars. That's how I learned how to drive. That was the beginning stages of things just getting out of control for me.
- [19:13]
Vanessa Nelson
And now for win four, the first ball.
- [19:20]
Rachel Cech
Stay tuned for a very special episode of Nelson Family Matters.
- [19:26]
Demar Nelson
When I was about 17 years old, I get into a fight with somebody and they shoot up the car. I get shot. I get shot in the face.
- [19:34]
Eric Smith
Who else was with you in this car?
- [19:36]
Demar Nelson
My wife.
- [19:43]
Vanessa Nelson
So When Damar turned 18, we were both living together. I think at that time, I was about 20 years old. He called me and he said he was gonna be on his way home in a little bit, but he asked me, did I wanna go grocery shopping? And I said, yes. He told me, okay, I should be leaving here in about 20 minutes. On his way home, I do remember him calling me, and he said, he'll be there, you know, in a little bit. Make sure I get dressed.
- [20:08]
Demar Nelson
I had just had a fistfight, like an altercation with some dudes. And I was pulling away from the scene. When I left, I didn't know they was following me.
- [20:17]
Vanessa Nelson
Once he got there, he didn't call me. He came in the house. He asked me was I okay. And I'm like, yeah, I'm okay. I remember grabbing my stuff and we went outside. But I noticed when I'm walking to the car, he ended up looking to the right like, what is that car doing?
- [20:32]
Demar Nelson
A lot of bad things were going on. A lot of disagreements, a lot of fights. Weapons were now starting to be drawn. They weren't, you know, fired yet. It was just kind of unfolding as he backed out.
- [20:44]
Vanessa Nelson
He's like, where did that car go? But that's when I noticed the car had sped off. He was just. He kept looking in the rearview mirror, kept looking around, and I'm kind of like, hmm. Didn't really think too much. But I was like, so something. I don't know. Something's not right. So we're headed down towards Winco. And then all of a sudden, that car got to the left side, and before I knew it, his body. He lifted his body up, took his hand, and just pushed me down towards the glove compartment. And all I heard was, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. And instantly, like, kind of got up and jumped on top of him and started pushing on the brakes. I was able to stop the car. He got into the passenger seat, and then I busted a ue and drove back up the hill. And Then I'm just going through lights and everything. And I pulled into the hospital and, boy, that was just the night that literally changed everything. They had to immediately rush him into surgery.
- [21:47]
Demar Nelson
Ended up breaking my jaw. You know, I was in the hospital for a couple of months because the heat from the bullet had my face so big it knocked my jaw off. So they had to re. Break my jaw, reset it because it was crooked. And then they put these metal braces in my jaw.
- [22:01]
Vanessa Nelson
So they had to wire his mouth shut so he couldn't eat for like, two months. Made a lot of smoothies for him, and he lost a lot of weight after that.
- [22:13]
Demar Nelson
I'm gonna be honest, man, I lost myself, like, totally.
- [22:17]
Vanessa Nelson
I remember him just being, like, really.
- [22:20]
Demar Nelson
Depressed, you know, I became extremely antisocial, impulsive. It ruined my life, man.
- [22:27]
Vanessa Nelson
It was heart wrenching to see because he went from just this person full of life, always joking, always, to being on edge, very paranoid in a sense, you know, overprotective of everything.
- [22:42]
Demar Nelson
My life is strange because I know what it's like to be a victim and a perpetrator. I've hurt people, but it was because I got hurt. So now I got this energy about me, this posture, you know, I ain't never put her in harm's way. It just. It gave me it. I think I was snapped for a long time.
- [23:00]
Vanessa Nelson
I just noticed the difference, you know, he was very on edge, very unsettled. I know when we would drive, he's always constantly looking over his shoulder. You know, there was times that I'll be home. We lived, like, on the third floor. And he would. Especially at nighttime, he would ask, is anybody watching me or is anybody behind me? So it was hard. It was really hard because I'm unsettled, you know, and I'm, like, worried. I'm like, we gotta live like this now. You know, we don't know these people who ever shot them and that they never caught the person. Right.
- [23:30]
Demar Nelson
When I would go to the hospital for them to check up on me, there would be a correspondent meeting with the therapist. Now that I think about it, I wish I would have took that meeting because I wouldn't be where I'm at today. He was trying to do therapy on my head. He was like, you got shot in the head, basically. Like, how do you feel all that? And I'm like, I don't know you. I was never raised to talk to somebody. I don't know.
- [23:54]
Eric Smith
What was your family's reaction?
- [23:55]
Demar Nelson
Man, they couldn't believe it. I remember the hospital Was full, man. People was going crazy. I remember trying to control my friends who were there. They got revenge on their heart. And then my daddy, like, man, what's going on, man? You know, look at what it's become. My life kind of spent out of control after that.
- [24:13]
Eric Smith
Did you ever get to talk to your grandmother about this?
- [24:15]
Demar Nelson
She was there. I remember her coming to the hospital. I don't think she had much to really say. She, you know, I was safe. I remember she came to the hospital like, oh, Demar, like, what's going on? You know? After I got shot, sadly, it got worse for me. All the warning signs, whether it's the doctor trying to check on my mental health. I told my wife, eventually they would call for me to come to the appointments. I told them to stop calling. I kind of just shut everything out. I felt victim. I was small, you know, and so I became more aggressive. The gang lifestyle, I got deeper into that. But the whole time I was really hurting, you know, that whole Persona took a life of its own. And so now I'm full time in the streets. I'm not carrying a football. That's over. I'm carrying a gun. Now.
- [25:00]
Vanessa Nelson
I know this particular night, I remember him coming in the house and he was like, did you watch the news?
- [25:11]
Demar Nelson
I was at a club and I ended up taking someone's life.
- [25:26]
Vanessa Nelson
Then it's back to back.
- [25:28]
Kavita Goetchel
This is not my birthday.
- [25:30]
Andrew McCarthy
Weeknight starting at 5 horset.
- [25:32]
Rachel Cech
Don't miss tonight's season finale of Demar Knows Best.
- [25:38]
Demar Nelson
That behavior spiraled out of control. My wife at the time, you know, I had a one year old son. So before my case actually took place, there was a moment after I got shot where I'm in the streets, I'm hustling, trying to make ends meet. I'm full time doing all those things. And my wife is having conversations with me about changing my life. We fell in love young and we've been together ever since. But my wife was always someone who was telling me, I'm smart, I can do something different. So between the time I got incarcerated and between the time where my case took place, I was trying to get my life right. I enrolled in Everest College to be a phlebotomist. I was going to be somebody who worked in ER to withdraw blood, but we didn't have anybody to take care of my son, so I had to drop out.
- [26:24]
Eric Smith
So y'all were living together at this time?
- [26:26]
Demar Nelson
Yeah, we got an apartment. Now I'm back and forth though, between my dad and hers because my Wife, she's two, three years older than me. So she has an apartment, she has a job. She's stable. But I'm coming over there, too. How it is when we grow up, we got a spot. I got a spot room at my dad's because I'm still young, right? You know, But I'm also going over here because this is my girl.
- [26:48]
Andrew McCarthy
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [26:49]
Demar Nelson
And absolutely, eventually, we end up getting a spot together before I ended up taking somebody's life. She's like, you need to do something different. So I'm going to school. I drop out of Everest. I went to the marine office one day, I signed up for the marines, okay? So I was a reserve for a small period of time, okay. Because I was trying to get out the streets, right? But because my grandma was important to me, I wouldn't ask my grandma think this is something that I should do. And like, in the black community, when you say you're gonna go to the army, it's no, they think that you're gonna go straight to the front line. She was like, no, hell no. They gonna send your ass to war. But it wasn't no war. Nothing going on. But I was like, okay. So because my grandma didn't approve of that, I still was doing what I was doing. Eventually, I ended up trying to take a test to be a firefighter. I was like, man, this I could do. You know, I'm athletic, I'm strong. They talked about taking the physical test. I was like, oh, I could do that.
- [27:45]
Eric Smith
Yeah.
- [27:46]
Demar Nelson
So I ended up going to take the test in Bothell. You have to pay 60 bucks, and you got to get a certain percentage to pass. I went, took the test, got the results back. You needed a 60 to pass. I got a 59. But I couldn't take the test again. So between the time where I could have took the test again and changed my life, I ended up taking somebody's life because I'm still a kid. I went to. I got locked up when I was 21 years old. I always meant well. I always wanted to be something. But I had these behaviors associated with my life and where I was raised, who I was hanging with. And so now here comes the justice system, and I'm dealing with that, and I'm victimizing people in my community. And now I get all this time for 40 years for taking this man's life. I know my victim has a daughter. I don't know her name. It's something I remember in the trial, going through that situation as a young man, it's kind of like a tailspin. You get locked up and you're trying to figure out, how did you get here? How did I do this? Why did I do this? Why am I making these type of choices?
- [28:44]
Vanessa Nelson
He had his permit to carry. We would go to the gun range. Sometimes in that trial, I remember them saying the guy was on the porch and he broke a glass or something like that, but put it behind his back and he walked towards my husband. And I'm hearing that in trial, right? And my husband's probably not knowing because he probably didn't see in clear view what it was. So when he's walking towards you, you know what I'm saying? My husband got permit to carry, and he tells the guy, back up, back up, back up, stop. And then you're not doing that. How much more? What would you do? Right. You know, so I know my husband felt threatened, and all he could probably think of is the fact that he's been shot. And I cannot let this happen to me again.
- [29:25]
Demar Nelson
You know, the kid that used to be running around outside and climbing trees. And how did it turn into this?
- [29:31]
Eric Smith
What is it you think that you needed?
- [29:33]
Demar Nelson
Oh, I think I just needed consistency. Like when we're growing up, like today, now that I'm a father, I haven't been in my home since my son was one. But one of the things that I see works with people is consistency. I've never had that. I've always had short intervals of normalcy, like I got to peek at it, but I never could have it.
- [29:51]
Eric Smith
When you're going through this process, what do you think is one of the biggest things that impacted you? Here you are. This thing just happened. By the time you get arrested, it's like, man, everything has to hit you at once. I know when I got arrested, everything hit me at once. What was you going through at that.
- [30:07]
Demar Nelson
Time, man, to be honest with you, I don't think I understood the seriousness of it. I'm 21. When you're growing up and you're living to survive and you got this me or him mentality, before you take ownership of what you do for a long time, you learn to either just justified or you don't acknowledge it correctly. This is a big deal, man. This is. I'm in big trouble. Nobody wins. Whether I get sentenced to a thousand years, this man loses his life, my son loses his father. That man can't be a father to his daughter, his family, his legacy, or whoever he was or whatever he was going to become was snuffed out because I was hurting, like, learning to accept and acknowledge that. To be honest with you, man, I not. I'm not okay with that, because now that I've grown up and I've been able to examine who I am, man, I'm so much more than that. And he deserved more than that, you know? So being in court and listening to the judge, the family actually came to forgive me. But before trial, the escorting officers and my attorney is telling me, don't look at the family, you know, in court, because fights and stuff, you're not allowed to engage with the family or the gallery. I was trying to, like, out of respect for them, not look at them. I didn't want none of his friends or the people that knew him to start this war with me. So I'm paying attention in trial. I'm not engaging. And that ended up angering the family. So I had to, like, I talked to my victim's mother after the trial, like. And I didn't go to trial because I was trying to beat his life. I was going for elemental situation. Right? You know what I'm saying? So, like, it wasn't a disrespect towards his life. It was just some elements that they didn't get right. And I was trying to fight that. But where I got a chance to speak to the mother, she was like, I actually came to, like, have compassion for you. Where you grew up, you didn't have no mom. You didn't have, like, she knew a bunch of stuff about me, and I didn't know this lady, the prosecutor, some. She knew my. The facts of my life, how I grew up. And she was like. But when you wouldn't look at me during the trial, she was like, I thought you were the devil. But really, I just was a kid who made a scary decision, an impulsive decision, because I had been shot. But you can't bring that up in court. That's what we were arguing. They wouldn't let us bring that up because they said it'll shape my character to look like something different. So the prosecutor is just arguing that I just slayed this person.
- [32:23]
Vanessa Nelson
Them not knowing what he'd been through. You know, previously, he's been shot, shot in the face, been in driver's shooting, his wife is in the car. Like, what was probably going through his mind is, you know, I have to protect myself. And it doesn't matter how many times I let off. It's just the fact that I am trying to protect myself.
- [32:52]
Eric Smith
You're 21. They just gave you twice the amount of time that you've lived on this earth.
- [32:56]
Demar Nelson
Yeah.
- [32:57]
Eric Smith
You know, and you're being told that you have to go and now serve this time in a space that is designed for bad people. It's designed for people that can't make it in society, when in fact, you are a person that can make it in society. It's just that because we found ourselves in a situation where our youth took control of our decisions more so than us being able to analyze and think things through effectively.
- [33:22]
Demar Nelson
I acknowledged it early, but when I came, I was like, man, like, how am I going to do this? What's going to be my course? I'm looking around. There's men older than my father acting like me. That scared me. I was like, I don't want to be like this, dude. I got a son at home. I'm trying to figure out, how am I going to be a father? You know, I got a wife, and eventually I'm like, well, I need to start making myself available for things that can make me better. I have emotional issues. I have behavioral issues. I took somebody's life, the nature and the structure of their family tree. I've altered that. I was like, why? I can honor my victim by doing better. I can't give anything back. I took that. I need to just start attaching myself to things that make me in the community and people I come into contact with better. My support system, pretty good. Up until that time, you know, my wife is still there. At one point, you know, I tried to divorce my wife, bro, because I couldn't handle the weight of. Sometimes women, when you go through something, we don't know it, but they feel like they have no choice but to support you. And I didn't want to drag this woman through this.
- [34:32]
Vanessa Nelson
You know, it was probably like six months in, and my husband told me, you know, if you can't do this, please let me know. This is a long time that I'm going to have to serve. These are some years, you know, I really don't want to see you go through this. You know, you don't have to do this time with me. And if you can't ever do it, just let me know. I will always rehearse. I'll always be your friend. And I realize when you go through something like this with someone you love, there's a bond that forever is unbreakable. No matter what life throws at you after that, you just know this person is your lifelong partner. I think that's why we're so Close. Now. We do sometimes talk about, you know, what we've been through and we realize, you know, we are there for one another.
- [35:20]
Demar Nelson
She came back that following week and was like, you know, that made me want to. I believe in you. I believe you're going to get through this. I believe that. And that made me want to. Made me love you even more. This stuff takes a toll on everybody. You know, my son, no, my wife has caught him in the. In the shower crying, screaming. I just want my dad. And it's a lot. It can be a lot. But I have to carry it because I take full responsibility for the choices that I make. That's what a man does. I have to accept that. I have to accept the crime that I committed deserved punishment. Do I deserve to stay here forever? I don't believe that. But until I leave, I'm going to continue to do what I'm doing. After being there for four years, I went to Shelton population. I'm close to my family now. I'm getting visits every week. I was parenting there. Yeah. My wife would bring my son up if he had a bad day at school. I was that close. Now my household is, you know, it's getting healthier. It can reach me. It's more tangible. The same programs that we were doing at Colum Bay, okay, I brought it there and I was doing really well. My wife was able to access me now my. I built, rebuilt my relationship with my mother there. So my mom started to come to see me. I hadn't seen my mom in years. I. I begin to see a shift again, like in my behavior when you spend time with your parents. Growing up without my actual parents, a lot of my ways and the stuff that I have. A lot of people say I got an old soul. It's cuz I really was raised by old people, bro. Being raised by your parents or being around your parents when you've never had them, you're looking at your just like, whoa. I'm seeing why I do certain stuff, why I act the way I act, where my mannerisms come from. Genetically though, right? My mom ain't never raised me, you know, and I say that respectfully, but my mom has all these things that I do and it fascinated me, man.
- [37:07]
Eric Smith
I'm like, what's one of those things?
- [37:08]
Demar Nelson
She's a great listener. Okay. And she loves knowledge. She's very compassionate with learning people. Yeah, she's very creative. Absolutely.
- [37:19]
Eric Smith
Oh, I can see all those things in you.
- [37:21]
Demar Nelson
Absolutely. Yeah, she's very creative. She's intuitive. Very much so the way she moves and talks like that, like, she. We're one in the same person. As I was like, man, seeing that, it broke me, man. I'm like, I gotta forgive this woman, man. Even though, like, I may be hurting, you know, because if I keep holding on to that, like, she's not free and I'm not free, and that stuff, it just poisons me. I'm already in a bad situation. It really kind of fast tracked our bond. So then she start coming to see me now. Every Mondays I would see my mom. Sundays I see my dad. I really excelled there. And then I began to take that energy back into the population with me there. I was getting evs, so I was spending weekends in the efv. An EV is an extended family visit.
- [38:08]
Andrew McCarthy
Okay?
- [38:08]
Demar Nelson
It's when they allow you based on good behavior, they clear you to go and spend time unsupervised with your family. And being out there with my son and my wife, I was really cool with the visiting sergeant, and I'd be doing homework with my boy. I cut my son's hair out there. Like, I got a chance to be everything that I didn't have, just loving on him, you know, I was able to teach my son out there, like, it's okay to be an emotional man. Just don't let it consume you. Because I didn't have that growing up. God threaded you with emotion. Like, I wanted my son to be healthy emotionally. Me and my wife, you know, she would come and would give her a break because she's raising our son, she's paying the bills, she's trying to hold on for me. It would allow me to cook, and me and him would bring her breakfast in bed, stuff like that, you know, just trying to do my best to take advantage of having my family there. My grandmother ended up passing. I want to back up a little bit, though, because my grandfather died. Died before she passed. I went to that funeral, and I seen my grandma a year before she passed. Up until that time, my grandmother had had some strokes. She was on an air machine, but she could talk. She had her memory, but she had four strokes. The doctor said, you know, the right side of her brain, that everything that teaches her how to function and stuff, she was starting to decline. I got to see her, you know, she was just staring at me, and I was looking at my grandmother, and I didn't want to disrupt what she was doing because I knew, like, she was looking at me like she's trying to see if I'm okay. And so I Looked at her, I was like, I'm okay. She was like, okay. And then her breathing machine cut off. I had about 30 minutes left before the officers was going to get me out of there. And when the breathing machine cut off, she was. I could hear her struggling to breathe, but she wasn't going to say nothing. She was going to sit there because she hadn't seen me and 14 years, you know, I turned around and told my auntie and them, I said, she needs to go. She looked at me before she left and was like, if I don't ever see you again, I love you. I knew what that meant. It was. Her time was coming, you know. And so she ended up leaving. And the police officers escorted me outside to escort me back to the prison. And it was crazy because when I was walking to the car, I almost collapsed, man, because I had so much emotion. I turned around and looked and my whole family and cruelty and hurt was just staring at me. And I got a big family, bro. Like I was at a concert. I was on stage getting ready to perform. They're looking at me and everything just hit me. I was like, man, I'm responsible for all these people, man. My son was at the funeral. He ain't never been seen with his father free. He's on me. So I'm walking with these chains and stuff. He just wants to be seen with his dad. My whole family's looking at me and my grandmother's looking at me before she leave. And it hits me that I left, I left behind all that responsibility because I'm like one of the leaders of my family. And I was like, man, it's over for me, man. I can't keep playing this game. I gotta do better. When I got back to the prison, I cried like a baby. She died a year later.
- [42:21]
Andrew McCarthy
UPN's girls night out Tuesday 1st.
- [42:23]
Vanessa Nelson
It's an all new he's right.
- [42:25]
Demar Nelson
I do want him.
- [42:27]
Rachel Cech
And now, ladies and gentlemen, it's that time again. When Red digs into the vaults of the Washington State Penitentiary to bring you the wildest tales in the prison's history. Tonight's feature is called the Curious Case of Herbert Nichols junior.
- [42:44]
Andrew McCarthy
What if I told you that the youngest prisoner ever to be incarcerated at the Washington State Penitentiary was 12 years old? Would you believe it? Sounds pretty crazy if you ask me. Like there's no way a civilized society would ever incarcerate a 12 year old child in an adult prison, right?
- [43:06]
Vanessa Nelson
Wrong.
- [43:07]
Andrew McCarthy
This is the curious case of Herbert Nichols Jr. The youngest prisoner ever to be housed at the penitentiary here in Walla Walla. August 5, 1931. Shortly after the stroke of midnight, 12 year old Herbert Nichols Jr. Armed with a gun he had taken from his friend's father, broke into Peter Clouse's People Supply store in Soton, Washington to steal tobacco and gum. Tipped off to the burglary by a neighbor, county Sheriff John Warren Normal entered the store with his deputies and the shop owner. A few minutes later. When they ordered him to come out, young Herbert, hiding behind some boxes and a barrel of vinegar, shot the sheriff in the head as he approached and killed him instantly. The murder and subsequent trial set off a media frenzy with reporters from all over the nation swarming the area to cover the store. And the local townspeople were in an uproar over the murder of a respected lawman by a troubled juvenile with the history of theft and arson who they say showed no remorse for the killing. It became a circus during the trial. Herbert had to be moved to a safe location because a lynch mob formed. The local church was even selling fried chicken dinners to them outside the jail. I say that again. The church was selling fried chicken to a group of adults that organized themselves into a mob to kill a 12 year old. Are you serious? Come on, man. But what was uncovered at trial was a tragic tale of a family with a long history of mental illness and physical abuse. Multiple members of Herbert's family were committed to insane asylums. His mother Hazel even made claims on bestiality against his father Burt for having sex with the family heifer. Heifer Bird eventually shot and killed a family friend while attempting to kill Hazel and was sent to Orofino State Hospital for the Insane in Idaho. Unable to care for her children, Hazel gave up custody of Herbert and his three older brothers to the Children's Home Finding Society of Boise, Idaho. He bounced around from foster homes, state institutions and eventually found his way to his grandmother's home who starved and beat her grandson when he would misbehave. All of this came out at trial and soon there was a public outrage from other parts of the country, including Father Edward Flanagan, who founded Boys Town, a refuge for homeless boys in the Midwest. He started a campaign to get then Washington Governor Roland Hartley to parole Herbert to Boys Town. But no pardon or parole ever came and the jury still found him guilty and gave the 12 year old a life sentence in. And he was sent here to the Washington State Penitentiary, an adult prison. If all that wasn't crazy enough, what happened next was pretty extraordinary. At first Herbert was kept in general population, but shortly afterwards they built a specialized hut near a guard tower for him to live in so he could be away from other prisoners. At night, he ate with officers instead of in the chow hall. He didn't have to wear the prison uniform either, but he was still accepted and looked out for by the other prisoners. They helped tutor him and taught him how to exercise and play handball. In this new environment, with rules education and structure, a once apathetic and detached Herbert thrived. He became great at math and loved to read. He furthered his education by getting homework weekly from the local school district, and he eventually received his high school diploma in 1938. Later on, he even took correspondence classes from Washington State College. In 1941, due to his incredible transformation, Governor Clarence Martin pardoned Nichols as one of his last official acts in office. Nichols went straight to work. After his release, he thrived as an accountant in a Tacoma shipyard and was so good at it, he later moved to California to work at MGM Studios. From there, he went to 20th Century Fox and Hollywood and stayed working there for the rest of his successful career. He married, had a son named John and never committed another crime, ultimately passing away in 1983. This was the curious case of Herbert Nichols, Jr. Proving that if given the chance, even those that society deems lost causes or unforgivable can truly transform their lives and become better human beings and ultimately successful and productive members of society. And if you ask me, that's definitely a story worth sharing.
- [47:45]
Kavita Goetchel
We want to thank you for listening to this week's episode of Concrete Mama, the podcast. On our next episode, we bring you along on Anthony's journey to freedom after 16 years in prison. And we take you through his process of getting Clemens, which was anything but easy. Here's a sneak peek.
- [48:04]
Eric Smith
It was a struggle, man, trying to figure out who was gonna love me enough to keep me. That's a crazy thing to think about as a kid, you know, being put from home to home, and you're like a pair of shoes, people trying you on to see if you fit right.
- [48:16]
Kavita Goetchel
Don't miss it. This podcast was produced by Unincarcerated Productions. I'm Rachel Cech, one of the producers this episode. We would like to acknowledge Vanessa Nelson for her undying support of her husband Damar, and participating in telling their story. We would also like to thank our amazing support team over the past year of Kavita Goetchel, Eric Smith, Cameron Lee, and Professor Robert Sickles from Whitman College. That's it for this episode of Concrete Mama. But before we go, here's who makes it happen happen. Zach Bentz is our editor, audio engineer and graphic designer. Megan Sanchez handles our social media content and audience engagement. Vic Chopra and me, Rachel Check are the showrunners and executive producers. Washington State Penitentiary in Walla Walla and Washington State Doc have made this project possible. For more info, check out our show notes and you can write us with questions about the podcast at the email and address listed there. We will read and answer some of them on future episodes. You can also subscribe to support us and get extra content. Concrete Mama is more than a podcast. It's a platform for voices that need to be heard. If this episode resonated with you, share it, support it, leave us a five star rating and keep listening. You can find unincarcerated productions on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and various other social media platforms. Thanks for.