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- [00:00]
Vic
Foreign welcome to a very special bonus episode of Concrete Mama, the podcast. We're taking a break from our regular programming to answer some questions submitted by you, our listeners. As we hit the halfway mark of our inaugural season, Anthony, Red demar and myself sat down with Rachel to discuss our journey so far. Let's take a listen to that conversation.
- [00:38]
Rachel
Well, I'm so excited that we're all here having this conversation. It's been a while in the making and this is the first time that I think we've gotten to talk about this like, you know, on the record with all of us together, including me. So thank you for letting me join you today. I want to start out with, you know, for our mid season point, a question that I'm going to pass over to Vic. So my first question is, how has this journey been so far making this podcast?
- [01:09]
Vic
Vic? That's a great question because it's been like just an amazing journey so far. I can't remember if we've even talked about it on the episodes about like how long this process has taken us, right? This has been like a two year journey to get this off the ground and to get it recorded with everybody. I mean, just the whole, whole production process has taken like almost two years. So to see it come to fruition and get the response that it has had is really incredible. So I want to share a little story with everybody about just what a full circle moment it has been for me and for unincarcerated. So for the listeners out there, when the day the podcast launched, we actually had a huge article in the Seattle Times written about the podcast and it actually made the front page headlining story for, for the newspaper, which is just absolutely incredible in itself. I mean, I think we all kind of dreamed that that would be the case, but just to see that actually manifest and come to fruition was absolutely incredible. The biggest publication in Washington state and to have a picture of Damar in red on the COVID and the podcast studio, I mean, that's fantastic. So that being said, so when I was sentenced and when I was at Snohomish County Jail and I was actually sentenced to prison, it was me, my ex and a friend of ours. So I remember like our sentencing date was like, I don't know, early to mid August of 2014. And I remember our sentencing actually made the front page headlining story of the Hair. The Daily Herald in Everett, it's the big, it's the big newspaper up there in Snohomish County. So to have made the front page headlining story for like, the worst possible day, one of the worst possible days of my life, and, you know, the. You know, one of the most tragic things that's ever happened in my life. For choices that I made to now come full circle, and for our team, all of us on Incarcerated Productions, this thing that I've been building with this incredible team that I just imagined, starting when I was in prison, to then get this incredible project off the ground, have it launch, and then to make the front page headlining story of the Seattle Times, which is the biggest newspaper in Washington, was. I can't even, like, put it into words. What a beautiful full circle moment that was for me.
- [03:39]
Rachel
It's awesome. Thank you for sharing that. I'm curious what other people think. How's this journey been so far, making.
- [03:44]
Anthony
The podcast, the journey of watching it build from the inside. You know, I get to see it from two different aspects. Right. And so I watched the journey from the inside. The struggles that we face together in there, trying to get this thing off the ground, the vision, the dream. Right. And to see it come to fruition and then to step outside of my confinement and watch it blossom from this side, get to interact with people that are listening to it. You know, people ask me questions all the time about the guys in there. Damore, Red Campbell. You know, people are always asking, who's Vic, who's Rachel? Like, who are all these people? Right. And they want to know more. Right. People are intrigued, and I think that's a dope experience, to be able to get that. That side of it, you know, and be able to then report back to the brothers inside, like the. The buzz that's happening from it. Right. It's huge. You know, I remember driving around Walla Walla trying to find a Seattle Times paper and not being able to find one, just so I could see my guys on the front page. So this has been such an amaz, you know, from both sides, how this is. This has become what it is.
- [05:04]
Rachel
I, too, couldn't find any Seattle Times, and I found out it was because Vic was in the same neighborhood and he bought them all up.
- [05:10]
Red
Most definitely. Yep.
- [05:14]
Anthony
Yep.
- [05:15]
Damar
I think it's a really unusual when you see an idea come to fruition, right? Like, all of us, we were doing this thing. We were behind the scenes cooking up this idea to bring to the masses, share our lives, to be vulnerable, as Vic says, and the courage it takes to do that and share that art, to share yourself with the world has been an unusual experience. And also for us, to be able to lift other People based on our circumstances and what we've created. You know, I think that's really profound. It's really been. It's one of the things that I. I'm constantly watching still and listening to the unfold, you know, the unfoldment of, like when I call home and people talk about you guys like they know them, or when I walk up to people on the yard or people are saying you guys names and that's like, that's cool, you know, when people say your names and when they know you. So just watching it all unfold is really cool. People are just like, yeah, like when Vic said this or like when the yellow brick road and this. And like, people are quoting those things. They really feel connected to it and it lets me know that they really. They're with us. They're with us on that journey. So that's. That's really cool, man.
- [06:29]
Red
Yeah. For. For me, sometimes I wake up in the morning and I really don't. I can't believe it's happening still. You know what I'm saying? Like, I can't believe people actually like it as much as they do and how much it's blown up and how, like, constantly people walk up to us and ask us about it and say they like it. And I hear, you know, people on the street saying the same thing. So sometimes I just gotta, like, step back and be like, wow, we actually. We're actually doing this right now, you know, So I just kind of. Yeah, it's kind of crazy to me still. It hasn't really. I don't think it's really fully hit me yet. Like, the weight of what we're actually doing or, you know, what this could become.
- [07:10]
Rachel
Yeah, it's a little bit surreal, it feels like. And I'm. I'm remembering something Anthony said one time about. It's like, there's so many good things happening one after the other. It's like, when's the. What's. When's the other shoe going to drop? You know, And I don't think it is, y'all. Like, I think that, you know, it's all good. It's all good things, all love. So you've got a lot of ears on your stories right now. We just hit 5,000 downloads from folks on the outside. We've got another 10,000 on the inside in the incarcerated population across the country. We're definitely in the top 5% of podcasts. Um, so there's a lot of exposure. I'm just curious, what's the ideal outcome from Your perspective, both, like, personally and also for the larger incarcerated population.
- [08:05]
Damar
I'll take that question. I believe that having a lot of ears on our stories have been. It's been really awakening, you know, for us, because a lot of people inside of the institutions that we. We live in and for staff members that work here. Right. It's. It's often that we don't get a chance to share our stories. Everybody has a story. Everybody has been through something. Right. And so I think that it's really empowering that we get to lead the charge on that and give people a voice. People have really awakened. They feel like someone represents them, and that's. That's. I feel like that's. That's the really fortunate side of being able to do it and to give people hope. Like, people have hope. There are people saying thank you. Like, some people just say thank you, and that's enough. Like it. That's enough for us, you know, throughout this journey. I think that that's really, really cool and understanding that we definitely represent someone, like, my responsibility as a podcaster in this position. I represent somebody, and I want to make sure I do that for us authentically, you know?
- [09:15]
Rachel
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Red.
- [09:17]
Red
I think personally, for me, I just kind of want to keep getting better every time, like, working with. With you guys, especially, like, the history stuff with Vic and Rachel, like I've been doing, I feel like I've been getting better, and so I just want to, like, be the best I can be. And so personally, I just want to get better at it. And for the incarcerated population, I just want, you know, we're getting our stories out there, but I also want to get some other people's stories out there, too, and just kind of shine a light on this place and in places like it, you know?
- [09:52]
Rachel
Absolutely. And you're. You're a character to people. People say to me all the time, like, oh, Red did this, and Red said that, and what's he going to do next? And all this kind of stuff. So you're already doing a great job because you're making a big impact on people.
- [10:07]
Red
Thank you. That's what's up.
- [10:09]
Vic
Yeah.
- [10:10]
Rachel
Anthony.
- [10:10]
Anthony
Yeah, I think I'm gonna flip it, though. I'm gonna get to the personally second, but for the larger population, you know, to kind of piggyback off what Demar said, you know, there's a lot of preconceived notions about people inside. You know, they just assume that people just go out and do bad things or they just go out and do this but there is a backstory, right? There's. There's things that motivated a lot of life choices and decisions that led people to where they are to sit and be incarcerated, you know, and I think what that's going to do for the larger incarcerated, instead of someone just coming in and saying, looking at someone as a murderer or a robber or whatever, they're going to say what led them there? How did they get to that point of having to commit that crime, right? It's going to make them ask that other question before just jumping in and already having this preconceived notion about somebody. And I think that's going to take a weight off a lot of the incarcerated, because we spent a lot of our time when we was incarcerated trying to prove that we are more than what got us here, right? And so being able to share our stories and how our stories are so similar to so many other people's stories, you know, I think it's going to broaden that view and change some dynamics for people inside, you know, and personally, you know, what this has done for me is I go back and I listen to my own story and get reminded about the things that I've overcome, right? And so when I'm having a hard time or going through it, I go back and I listen, right? I listen to the brother's stories, I listen to my story, you know, and it reminds me of what it is that I've overcame. And so when I'm out here struggling or if it's a hard day, I'll go and listen and I'll be like, okay. You know, it's like notes to myself. It's like reopening my journal and reminding myself of where I be in so I know where I'm going.
- [11:50]
Rachel
Absolutely. You're reminding me of something that I've been told. David Heppard, who spent 26 years in prison and has been the executive director of a couple of organizations on the outside, he said change happens in relationship, and that includes relationship to yourself, you know, so listening to your own story and also like listening to it with all the sound design and all of the like, you know, sound effects and the edited version of it, like, it brings it to life in a different way. So that's what you made me think of. But Vic, what are your thoughts on this?
- [12:24]
Vic
Yeah, for me, I think it just hopefully will continue our mission at unincarcerated to humanize the justice impacted community. To continue to. To create opportunities for both folks that are inside and outside. I continuously just want to keep opening doors and create more opportunities and for just to open the public's eyes, to just understand that we're all human beings and everybody comes from trauma, some type of trauma in their life. And like Damar said, everybody has a story. And, you know, if we can just flip the script on somebody's perspective or narrative or what they've created in their mind about what they think a prisoner or a felon is and just create more empathy and understanding, I think we'll have done our job. I also really want this to create more opportunities for early release in Washington state and across the country as well. But selfishly, I really would love to. I really would love for this to affect the sentences of our hosts. I would really love for it to create an early release for Damar and for Red and get them granted clemency. That would be the most. That would be the most beautiful outcome, I think, for me. And then also, I want us to win a Pulitzer.
- [13:56]
Rachel
We're manifesting.
- [13:58]
Damar
We got some.
- [13:58]
Rachel
So I love that we got some words coming, man. I feel that way, too, especially about Damar and Red. And I'm gonna move on to the next question. So I'm reading here because it's a long one. So someone said, I love the story of Herbert Nichols, especially how the older inmates took him under their wing. That story and the podcast in general painted a strong picture of inmates supporting each other like family. Is this the exception or the rule in your experience? Is the camaraderie there, if you want it, or is it hard to find Red, I'm going to start with you.
- [14:33]
Red
I actually see this every day, and I have for the past 12 years that especially when younger guys come in, there's always like three or four or even 10 people that look out for that guy somewhere or another, you know what I'm saying? If they. If they want to get some kind of, you know, if they want to learn new stuff and. And learn how to get through their day easier, there's always someone around to help them. You know what I mean? So I. I mean, it's something that you see in here all the time. And a lot of people in here don't have families anymore, and they don't have family. So the guys in here are their family, you know, and so it's like, it's. It's consistent in here. It's not. It's been. That was in the 30s, and now it's still going on in 2025. So, yeah, it's definitely a thing.
- [15:24]
Damar
I kind of Want to touch on that too. I just thought about it as not necessarily talking about Herbert, but situations like his where there were men who were deemed possibly maybe unworthy because of their crimes or immature, but they had the eyes to see that someone else needed help and helps another individual get where they needed to be. And so, like listening to the Herbert Nichols story right now. Recently, I just moved in this young man, he's 22 years old and having that camaraderie, looking for people that you can actually support and give that confidence too, so they can get through this time. There's a lot of men in the system, period. That look to let somebody else fly on their wings so they can get where they need to be and support them in educating themselves, making the right decisions. A lot of that exists inside of you.
- [16:19]
Rachel
Can you say what you mean by moved in?
- [16:21]
Damar
So I moved in, I moved a younger man into my cell. So you have the opportunity to do that if you find somebody that you could be compatible with. And sometimes you have men around here who just looking for somebody who they can actually help, that might need a leg up or help navigating the system. And this young man, it's his first time being locked up, he's at walla walla. Younger man, very smart, very intelligent. But I moved him in just to support him because I wanted to ensure that he didn't fall through the cracks. A lot of the times you can fall within the cracks of doing time and sometimes younger people can be misled in these environments. And so like Herbert's story, instead of him falling through the cracks and getting to a place like this and actually making more mistakes, he was embraced and supported and ultimately ended up becoming a. A really great citizen out there in the world. And so there's a lot of us that do that.
- [17:19]
Rachel
That's amazing. You're a little bit of a older brother or father figure to him, I'm sure.
- [17:24]
Red
Yeah.
- [17:24]
Damar
Yeah, for sure.
- [17:25]
Vic
I would just like to say that I think that is one of the biggest misconceptions I think people have about those of us that are doing time. And that was something that we tried to address in our very first episode, is the relationships we form while doing time. Because a lot of us form really strong bonds of friendship and brotherhood, create meaningful, lasting relationships. I'll just keep saying it like I. I couldn't have gotten through the five years I did without the help of my friends and the guidance and the support or just having somebody to lean on when you're having a tough day. And it's hard to find those where you can actually just be real and break down if you need to break down or just, you know, curse the day because you're just one more day in prison. It's just the same. Same stuff over and over again, right? So you. You really do form really tight, tight bonds in there, I think. I think some of my bonds in there are stronger than some of my, you know, my friendships out here, so. Because it just. You aren't. You don't have the distractions of the free world in everyday life, so you just sit there and you just connect on deep level through deep conversations all the time, because you have all the time in the world to just reflect on life. So, yeah, I mean, it's. It happens all the time. It's just how you choose to do your time.
- [18:49]
Rachel
Anthony.
- [18:50]
Anthony
Yeah, this is a big one for me too, you know, because, you know, camaraderie is an important thing, right? Especially inside. And, you know, we have this thing called the chain bus, where people arrive from other prisons, they arrive from counties, they arrive from all these different places. And when they step off that chain bus, man, you know, they're seeking. You know what I'm saying? Where am I gonna go? How am I gonna fit in? And it's important on who snatches those people up. What I mean by snatch those people up is who's gonna be the person influencing them on how to do their time, right? And so sometimes, you know, you get influenced in one or two directions, you know, to make the most of your time, see what you can do while you're there to better yourself or increase yourself or to fall into the lifestyle, you know, and just find yourself comfortable in your setting and just do all the things a prisoner would do, right? And so camaraderie got us where we are right now, right? We're on a podcast with a group of individuals. You know what I'm saying? That we all found a camaraderie with each other. We all found a brotherhood with each other. We support each other. With me even being out here, I support them guys 100% in there, right? And when I was there, they supported me and they support me out here, you know, and so that camaraderie is so important. So, yes, that is. That's not an exception to the rule. It is the rule when you get to find people inside that you can find. Find that bond with, you know, Vic said, meaningful relationships, lasting and meaningful relationships, you know, that's what you can form. You know, you create. You create your family. You know, a lot of people are born into families, but in there, you get to create your family. You know, whether that's you first time. I remember this one guy, you know, I gave him a bar of soap when he first came off the chain, and he used to remind me about that bar of soap every time we ran into each other games. Like, bro, you know, you were the first guy to give me a bar of soap when I got off the chain bus. You know? Know, that's powerful. People remember those things. That's how you show and pay it forward is just by being the person for that person. You know what I'm saying? To motivate them to want to do something better.
- [20:56]
Red
Absolutely.
- [20:57]
Rachel
Anthony, I'm going to keep going with you. So if you could compare the making of this podcast experience to something else, how would you describe it to help others sort of understand what it's been like?
- [21:10]
Anthony
You know, this is a really great question, and I appreciate whoever asked this question, right? Because if I can compare this podcast experience to anything, it'd be regaining my freedom, right? Because when you're inside, you're voiceless, your opinions don't matter. 99.9% of the time, what you say is unheard, even if it makes sense. Right? And so by being able to have a voice for people, to hear your story, to be able to speak and create a dynamic where people can feel what it is that you're going through. You know, that's freedom to me. That's an opportunity to be free from the everyday silence that you have to experience. You know, when I stepped out of. Out of prison, I felt like I was able to be seen. You know, my brother Demar wrote this poem about being seen. Right? This is an opportunity to be free and to be seen through this podcast. And so if I could relate it to anything, man, it's freedom, you know, the freedom to express yourself the way you see fit. Right? And be able to tell your story the way you want to tell, not what some paper says about you.
- [22:21]
Rachel
Anybody want to bounce off of that?
- [22:23]
Red
I. I just say that I think this is like having another shot at life or like getting a second chance, right? Because that's what we're all. We're all looking for, a second chance in here. But this is like our second chance to, like, do something with our life, you know what I mean? It's like our. Our first opportunity at a second chance to really do something important, you know? And so that's what I. That's kind of how I feel about It.
- [22:49]
Rachel
It's beautiful. Other analogies, thoughts, ideas about, like, for the people outside, like, you know, if they're living their life, what would be an experience that they would be able to relate to of, you know, making this podcast?
- [23:07]
Anthony
That. Promotion.
- [23:08]
Rachel
I got a promotion.
- [23:09]
Vic
Yeah.
- [23:10]
Anthony
When you work hard to get that promotion, man, and you finally make it and you see your hard work paid off, you're like, hey, man, I got a couple more commas in my check. You know, that promot, man. You know what I'm saying? You work hard for things out here. You know, when people get that. Get that level of achievement, whatever it may be, you know, going from the back of the house to the front of the house, you know, you know, this is. This. This is. That's that for us.
- [23:33]
Rachel
Yep. You know, I think about it, like, so I hold space for people and facilitate learning sessions and conversations with people about really deep stuff out here. And. And what I see is when people start to open up, there's a transformation that happens in them where they're able to see others better and vice versa. And so I see that happening in a different way with this, where each of you have seen yourselves differently. You've gotten to know not just yourselves and each other, but, like, all the other people that we've interviewed so much of, so many of whom we haven't even been able to feature on the podcast yet. What, we're sitting on, like, 200 recordings, y'all. Probably 250 at this point.
- [24:21]
Damar
Yeah, we got archives, man.
- [24:23]
Rachel
Yeah, yeah, we got it. We got a vast archive. So if you haven't been featured on the podcast yet, there's, you know, plenty of time. But, yeah, I see it as like, you know, anytime that you get to have a deep conversation with people and really, like, expose who you really are and get seen for that. Like, this is doing that, and then also it's doing it at scale, you know, for people all over the country and. And beyond. Right. We've got listeners in the UK and Germany, and I don't know where all. So if you're listening to this and you haven't reached out yet, you got to write us. We got an email address and a physical address. We'd love to hear from you.
- [25:03]
Anthony
Absolutely.
- [25:03]
Rachel
So I'm going to move us forward to the next question. So are other prisoners able to listen to this podcast in Washington or elsewhere? And I already just kind of of stole your thunder a little bit on that one, but is the word getting out? Are you all local or national celebrities now? Is That a good or a bad thing? Who wants to kick us off?
- [25:25]
Vic
I'll jump in on that.
- [25:27]
Rachel
All right.
- [25:28]
Vic
Yes. So other prisoners are able to listen to this podcast not only just in Washington state, but all across the United States as well, which is really exciting. We have an incredible partner with the Adobo app. So anywhere the Adobo app is available on. On prisoner tablets, which is in 40. What is it, Rachel?
- [25:49]
Rachel
48, 47, 46, or 48 states. It's about a million people of the 2.2 million people in this country that are incarcerated. Have it.
- [25:57]
Vic
Yeah. Yeah. So we're reaching about half the prison population of the United States, which is amazing. And we just uploaded the first three episodes and the prologue a few weeks ago, and we're already at 10,000 listens or streams, whatever you want to call it, with the incarcerated population in the United States, which is amazing. So we're super, super grateful for anybody. Anybody that's listening to us on adobo. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. This is made with you in mind. We love you. And just. Just thank you so much. And I don't know how to answer. Answer the local or national celebrity question. I. I think I. Yes, we are. I think everybody's star is just going to keep rising. I was very lucky to do an interview about the podcast on kuow, which is the largest NPR station in. In Washington state, which was amazing. We all made the COVID of the Seattle Times. We're going to have some other articles written about us and hopefully more and more and more after that. So I think. I think everybody's star is rising, which is really a beautiful thing and which is what I envisioned for all of my guys here for Anthony Red and demar and Cambo. So we're just super, super grateful. And I don't take any of this for granted.
- [27:21]
Damar
Most definitely. I definitely the words getting out when we make phone calls, our families are pushing it. There's a pride also here in the facility where people that work here, our team behind the scenes, Josh and Chris McGill, constantly get feedback from the community and people that are listening on the inside. And then just to. For the people that are on the inside as well, that are getting the kiosk messages, telling their families about it, they're calling home, listening to it together, that's extremely powerful. So the word is getting out. And so for all the people across the nation that are, you know, have an opportunity to see this on Adobo and get connected it, keep telling your friends and family about it. Because we're representing you. We're doing our best to be responsible with that. And we also want you to stay connected to growing. Anything is possible. The creativity of growth and team membership, working together is what really created this possibility. So don't dare to dream. I dare you to dream. This all started with just a vision and a dream. So if you're on a tier, you're about to get out soon, get with some people you care about, create something, continue to utilize your creativity so that you guys can continue to grow, man, because anything is possible. That's what this is really about. It's creating possibilities.
- [28:45]
Red
Beautiful, for sure.
- [28:48]
Rachel
Other thoughts on that, Just in terms of is it a good or bad thing that y'all are national celebrities?
- [28:57]
Anthony
I would say that it's a good thing. You know, I'm gonna tell you why it's a good thing. Because it's important that people get to hear, you know, authenticity. You know, I've been out nine months and not to take a shot at the community, you know what I'm saying? But I've run into a lot of people that change up on me super fast out here, you know what I'm saying? And the consistency of being able to tell your story and what you've been through, that's important, you know what I mean? And a lot of the times I think this is going to be useful for people out in the community to be like, you know what? Maybe I did do that person wrong, or maybe I did switch up on this person person. Maybe I do need to, like, go back and, like, do something different. Or the people that are being consistent, they're being let known. Like, I am doing the right thing. I am staying on the straightforward path, you know, and it's. It's important because, like, we're really giving ourselves to this. You know, everything that we talk about is real. That's why people are resonating with it. I hear it all the time, you know, and that's a good thing. The conversation is happening. That's a good thing. It makes people want to be able to go back and, like, reflect on where are they at in their lives. Like, you know, I've heard some people talking about, man, you guys were just inmates doing this. That phrase, you guys are just inmates doing this, that made me think, like, no, we're people, man. You know, we're people with real stories, and it's making people look at the word inmate or prisoner different right now. We're people, man, with families, with loved ones, wives, kids, you know, What I'm saying. Aspirations, dreams, all those things. And so, yeah, this is a good thing, because I think it's changing relationships out here in the community, and it's gonna change relationships for the people inside of prison.
- [30:46]
Rachel
Yeah, that tees up this next question, too. Thank you, Anthony. So I'm curious where the season is going. Isn't everybody right now? Each episode feels like its own unique story. Is there an overarching story or theme or message you want to hit home with listeners? So I'm just curious if maybe, demari, you want to kick us off on that one?
- [31:08]
Damar
Well, I. I will say this, man. I don't want to spoil it. There's a lot of surprises in store for y'all.
- [31:14]
Rachel
You don't want to give any. Like, a little.
- [31:18]
Damar
You're gonna constantly. You're gonna constantly go down the rabbit hole of history, you know, you'll constantly be introduced to the lifestyles of people that have transcended this space. You know, that's my word. That's my life word, like Vic. And you guys will be able to go on a journey with them. And we'll also keep you along with us in the journey on the inside with me and Red and Campbell, introducing you to other people who have overcame crazy situations, who have had awesome opportunities, who've changed their lives. Also men in here who are struggling to get to that point. So it's going to be filled with a lot of authentic stories. But I think the arch of what it is we're trying to really portray is just the humanity we want to reintroduce, the humanity of people's lives here. I think where we're at, just as a country, as people, this is an opportunity for us to understand one another as a community as a whole. So I'll just leave that there. But there's a lot to look forward to.
- [32:19]
Rachel
I love how tight to the chest you're keeping it. Yeah. Red, what's up?
- [32:25]
Red
So I just want to add a little bit to that about kind of. Kind of what Anthony said on the last one about us just being inmates. I think the. The overarching story is just showing people that were not just inmates that were. That were people and were just like you guys out there. It's just we made a. A mistake. You know, whether it was me, Vic, Anthony D. Campbell, like, yeah, we made a mistake, but that's not who we are as people. Like, we're good people. We just. You know, we. We had that one bad day or a couple bad days. Whatever it was. Does So I think that's, that's the point is just to show that that's, you know, there's really good people in here and it's not just this penitentiary. It's. It's prisons all over the country. You know what I'm saying? That, that there's a lot of people in there that are great people. You just need to, to know more about them.
- [33:18]
Damar
Absolutely. And just to add to that, too, I. I just want to say something real quickly to represent the women. The women's prison doesn't get enough exposure representing them, their stories, the struggle. Of course, I can't speak for them when it comes to being a mother inside of a facility waiting to give birth to your child. None of those things. I'm just saying having visibility, to be able to convey what it's like to go through this struggle, overcome it, and still do awesome things and prepare yourself to reenter society.
- [33:49]
Rachel
Yeah, I always say that, you know, I've been doing work in prisons consistently for 13 years, but the seeds were planted very early growing up next to, you know, the penitentiary that you all are in right now. And some of the best humans I've ever met, yourselves included, are incarcerated folks. Justice impacted people, people that I've had as students and who I've been a student of, frankly, because every time I teach a class or have any sort of opportunity to conn with folks, it's always like the richest conversations and the deepest, most authentic, like real, you know, real shit. And so. Yeah, and that's also an Easter egg for upcoming episodes. There's more, more, more coming on that on that topic. Anthony, you sound like you're going to jump in.
- [34:45]
Anthony
Yeah. So the first thing that I'm curious where the season is going, man. Stay tuned. You know, your curiosity is going to be, you know, I'm saying, more than fulfilled. Stay tuned, man. We got, we got some, got some heat for you. You know, each episode is a unique story, right? And I think it was important. I think we all, when we sat down and talked about and developing this first season, we wanted to be able to bring each unique story. We wanted you to get an inside look at our lives. Right. That way you'd be able to understand who it is you're listening to. We thought that that was important in order for you to receive what we got to give you, got to know who we are, know where we came from, know the struggles we overcame. So, you know, we, we're not just, just some person that just decided to get on a mic and just Give you guys something. Now we're giving you ourselves, you know, And I think the overarching story or theme is here is like, what Red said, you know, we're people, man. We're people with something to say. We're people with a story. You know, we find ourselves in multiple positions in our lives, especially being incarcerated. You find yourself as a student, you can find yourself as a mentor, you can find yourself as big, you know what I'm saying? You know, there's a lot of men and women that are incarcerated, you know, that have to play roles from the inside, you know, like my guy Damore, you know what I'm saying? He has to be a dad from inside, you know, traversing that. You know, I think of how many mothers got to be moms from the inside, traversing that, you know, so the overall message that we kind of. That I feel that we kind of want to hit home is that, you know, people are doing some amazing things under some very, very difficult circumstances. You know, we're overcoming. And like my guy tomorrow said, we're transcending our environment to be able to ensure that we're still present in the lives of the people we care about.
- [36:34]
Rachel
What a great message for people on the outside, too, right now, especially.
- [36:38]
Anthony
Absolutely.
- [36:39]
Damar
Vic wanted to say something.
- [36:40]
Rachel
Vic, do you want to add anything to that?
- [36:42]
Vic
Yeah, I just want to say, like, I mean, I think everybody's hit home on all the points I wanted to make, but just finally, just, you know, we will continue to bring vulnerability and authenticity to each episode. And I think that's our greatest strength is really not shying away from talking about things that are very deep and meaningful and personal to all of us and letting people really see sides of ourselves that may not necessarily be expressed on a medium like this, especially from a place such as prison or post incarceration. And so I think that is our greatest strength. And you will. Will always get that first and foremost with any of the episodes that we put out.
- [37:28]
Rachel
Definitely. So last question and demar. This is over to you first. So what positive, if any, experiences have come out of the podcast so far?
- [37:38]
Anthony
Whoa.
- [37:39]
Damar
So the relationships. You know, me, I'm big on the, you know, relationship equity. I think our relationship equity with the people we work with, staff members as well. I've watched that grow. And I mean, when you're navigating a space like this and you're see. You see the respect and the connections that human beings have, and what happens is the titles and, you know, the boundaries kind of dissipate a Little bit. And we can just be people. Like, that's rewarding for me. I'm not an inmate. This person's not a staff member. We can just be men at that moment, right? That's rewarding. Also, men in the units that are walking up to me telling me, like, man, like, you know, I was touched by this, or I really like this or that saying, or Anthony's stories when he was with his family. You know, there was a point in one of the stories where, you know, Anthony's family members said, can I just put my hands on you and touch you? Like, people are being touched. They're being reminded who they are and what they can accomplish. And so for me, those are really, really positive outcomes. And also, to end it on this note, Vic talked about actually at one point being in the newspaper for something negative. Right. That's extremely powerful because now we're changing the headlines of our lives.
- [39:00]
Anthony
Let's go.
- [39:01]
Damar
That's something that I've been experiencing lately, and it makes me feel really good. My headlines are changing. Other people's headlines are changing. We're changing the narrative. I like that. I really like that.
- [39:13]
Rachel
It reminds me of the full circle of your story demarcus in the Life and Times of Jamar Nelson episode where you're talking about, I'm not carrying a football anymore. I'm carrying a gun. Like, there's that evolution, and now there's this evolution, which I've seen and known from the minute I met you, that the evolution that already happened of all the stuff that you're doing now and your SALT podcast and the stuff that you've been doing since I've been down, the documentary you were featured in. And there's been so many things that have led up to this that you've already done. And so I'm just. I just want to shout that out and shine a spotlight on that.
- [39:55]
Damar
Oh, for sure. Thank you.
- [39:56]
Vic
He went from carrying a gun to carrying a microphone.
- [39:59]
Damar
Nah.
- [40:00]
Red
For sure.
- [40:01]
Damar
Most definitely. I like that.
- [40:03]
Anthony
Yes, sir.
- [40:03]
Damar
Thanks to Vic. When I. When I make it up out of here, that's going to be on my T shirt.
- [40:08]
Vic
Yes.
- [40:08]
Rachel
I love that Others podcast positive experiences that have happened for you so far. Far.
- [40:14]
Vic
Yeah. I mean, I think it's. The community response has been amazing. The media response. I had an old friend that I worked with in media in Seattle reach out to me after she heard me on KUOW and was just like, wow, I just heard you. So great to hear your voice on the radio, and I can't wait to listen to the podcast. I had a family friend text my sister there. She was like, I just heard Vic on kids.
- [40:40]
Anthony
Aow.
- [40:41]
Vic
That's so cool. And, you know, other associates and colleagues and just people I've worked with, you know, just reaching out and, you know, sharing photos of the newspaper, just, you know, saying, congratulations. This is so cool. So I think that that recognition, it. It's. It's very fulfilling for me, for all of us, but especially for me, because I come from a background in media in Seattle. You know, I. I worked at PBS there and. And an NPR station as well, and kind of lit it all on fire when I went into addiction. And. And, you know, I think it was definitely a question mark on whether I was going to survive the life that I started leading from all of my friends at the TV station and people I had met, you know, in my career prior to being in prison. So to come out of it and then to get. Get positive recognition for the work that we're doing with, unincarcerated, with this team, which I'm just the most proud of, this project is probably the thing I'm the most proud of that I've ever done. It's really like, I can't put it into words, what that means to me. So. And this is just the beginning. So I know there's so much more to come from. From this and other things that we're doing in this work. So it's. It's amazing.
- [42:07]
Red
I was just going to say that, you know, I'm somebody that has. I have a really big family, and I consider all my really close friends family, too. And so for me, like, the. The most positive thing that came out of this is, like, you guys are all in my family now. You know what I mean? So, like, I consider. You got, you guys, we're all family. So that's like the coolest thing that happened for me so far, 100%.
- [42:30]
Rachel
And I also have a big family. Everybody's a cousin, even if they're not technically a cousin. So we can just start calling each other cuz.
- [42:38]
Red
Yeah, no, for sure.
- [42:41]
Rachel
Anthony, you want to take us home on that?
- [42:43]
Anthony
Yeah, man. I think about. There's a lot of positive that's happened out of this, you know, But I think the most positive thing for me is just knowing that the people that I left there are still have a chance to be heard, still having a chance to be hurt, you know? You know, they get to control the narrative of their lives now. You know, for me, that's a huge positivity you know, it's like a dream come true. You know, we always fought to be able to change the narrative about who we are on the inside, you know, and who we become when we come, when we get out, you know, is crazy, is because a lot of people where I work listen to the podcast and they were like, oh, man, you was incarcerated. I would have never known. Right? I would have never guessed that. And so to hear that, you know, it's a positive thing for me because that means I'm out here doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I'm not carrying no chip on my shoulder. I'm not dragging my past with me everywhere I go. You know, I'm on a new venture. So it's like a fresh start. And I'm praying and I'm hoping for a fresh start for my brothers inside the More Red Campbell and all my other people that I have love for that are in there as well. You know, my family, we've gotten closer, you know, because of the podcast, you know, and it's opened up a lot of eyes and perspectives about who people thought I was and now who they get to see in front of them. And so, yeah, I'm grateful for this. So grateful.
- [44:18]
Rachel
On that note, I think that this interview has come to a great spot. Spot to conclude. And thank you all as usual.
- [44:28]
Anthony
Thank you. Thank to all the people that. That sent the questions. Thank you all.
- [44:31]
Damar
Most definitely.
- [44:32]
Anthony
Keep them coming.
- [44:32]
Damar
Keep them coming.
- [44:33]
Red
100%.
- [44:34]
Vic
Absolutely. Yeah. Thanks, everybody, for listening. I can honestly say that the entire Concrete Mama team is so unbelievably grateful for the response to the first half of the season.
- [44:48]
Anthony
And.
- [44:48]
Vic
And we just want to say a big heartfelt thank you to all of our listeners. Please keep your questions coming and we'll answer them on future episodes. And next week, we'll get back to our regular schedule programming for this season with episode five. Don't miss.