The Evolution of the Entrepreneur with Bumble’s Whitney Wolfe Herd

Summary

Confessions of a Female Founder with Meghan

Episode: The Evolution of the Entrepreneur with Bumble’s Whitney Wolfe Herd
Release Date: April 8, 2025
Host: Megan
Guest: Whitney Wolfe Herd, Founder of Bumble

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Confessions of a Female Founder, Megan engages in an intimate and insightful conversation with Whitney Wolfe Herd, the visionary founder of Bumble. Hosted by Lemonada Media, the podcast delves deep into Whitney's entrepreneurial journey, personal struggles, and the evolution of her role as a leader and mother.

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Meeting of Friends and Founders

Megan and Whitney recount their first meeting, which was nothing short of memorable. Megan humorously recalls attending a New Year's Eve party in a "rhinestone disco crystal ball cowboy outfit," showcasing her vibrant personality. Whitney fondly remembers this moment, highlighting the lasting impression it left on her family.

Megan ([05:15]): "I was wearing a rhinestone disco crystal ball cowboy outfit because that was the theme on New Year's Eve."

Their friendship blossomed as Whitney became a trusted confidante for Megan during the early, uncertain stages of building her brand.

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The Birth and Evolution of Bumble

Whitney shares the original concept behind Bumble, initially envisioned as a "girls and women only social network to encourage kindness among women." This idea stemmed from Megan's personal experiences with bullying and the challenges she faced after leaving Tinder due to a sexual harassment lawsuit.

Whitney ([10:38]): "The original intention behind Bumble was actually not a dating app. It was meant to be a essentially girls and women only social network where we could encourage kindness amongst women."

The transition from "Merci" to Bumble occurred when Megan's business partner insisted on pivoting the platform towards dating, aligning it more closely with her own experiences and the systemic issues in dating dynamics.

Whitney emphasizes that Bumble's success wasn't solely about breaking away from Tinder but about fostering a healthier, self-empowered approach to dating and relationships.

Whitney ([44:23]): "If Bumble from 2014 to 2024 was about women making the first move, 2025 onward is about making the first move for yourself."

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Overcoming Adversity and Media Scrutiny

Megan opens up about the intense media scrutiny she faced post-Tinder, describing the experience as isolating and emotionally draining. She shares a pivotal moment in an Irish airport, where she realized the extent of the public's fascination with her story.

Megan ([13:53]): "I stopped through the airport in Ireland and... my jaw hit the floor. You were on the front page of every single thing."

This realization spurred her determination to rebuild herself, leading to the creation of Bumble and her commitment to fostering a positive environment for users.

Whitney empathizes with Megan's struggles, recognizing the immense pressure Whitney herself has faced in the public eye.

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The Power of Self-Love in Entrepreneurship

A significant portion of the conversation centers on the importance of self-love and its impact on entrepreneurial success. Whitney underscores that authentic leadership stems from loving oneself and fostering healthy relationships.

Whitney ([24:15]): "Or even liking yourself is a revolutionary act."

Megan echoes this sentiment, reflecting on how her personal journey towards self-acceptance has influenced her approach to business and leadership.

Megan ([28:08]): "The one thing you can never get back is time... your precious time."

They discuss strategies for managing stress and maintaining focus, emphasizing the need to prioritize and let go of non-essential worries.

Whitney ([28:51]): "At what point can you release some of the attachment to it?"

Megan ([30:18]): "You have to detach from the outcome."

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Motherhood and Redefining Success

The conversation takes a heartfelt turn as both Megan and Whitney discuss the profound impact of motherhood on their personal and professional lives. Megan explains how becoming a mother forced her to prioritize her well-being and set boundaries, transforming her approach to business.

Megan ([32:08]): "Their well-being is our well-being. And so I think it forces you to prioritize in ways that for me, I never did before."

Whitney adds that motherhood brings a unique perspective to entrepreneurship, drawing parallels between nurturing children and nurturing a business.

Whitney ([37:31]): "They're extensions of our soul and our heart... something really high value for the world. And in her world, that's super high value."

This shift in priorities not only improved their personal lives but also enriched their leadership styles, fostering more compassionate and effective business environments.

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Rejoining Bumble: A New Vision

In a surprising plot twist, Whitney announces her decision to step back into her role at Bumble after a year-long sabbatical. This decision was fueled by a renewed passion and a deeper understanding of self-love and authenticity.

Megan ([43:25]): "I'm madly in love with Bumble and I'm bringing all of my time away with me. And I'm going to foundationally re-architect the way people date and the way people love."

Whitney reflects on her sabbatical as a period of self-discovery, which culminated in a refreshed vision for Bumble—not just as a dating app but as a platform that empowers individuals to prioritize self-love and healthy relationships.

Whitney ([44:39]): "All the industries go out of business if we like ourselves. The anti-aging companies don't have a future. Botox is gone."

This reinvigorated mission aims to steer Bumble towards fostering genuine connections rooted in mutual self-respect and authenticity.

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Final Insights and Closing Thoughts

As the episode concludes, Megan and Whitney share final reflections on their journeys. They emphasize the importance of maintaining one's essence in both personal and professional spheres and the ripple effect that genuine self-love can have on the broader community.

Whitney ([45:34]): "It's your essence. This is what it all comes back to."

Megan offers parting advice to aspiring female entrepreneurs, urging them to value their time and prioritize their well-being over relentless pursuit of business milestones.

Megan ([27:48]): "Don't take this route to the top of Everest. It's not worth it. The view is not worth it."

Both women celebrate their enduring friendship and mutual support, underscoring the significance of having a strong support system in navigating the challenges of entrepreneurship.

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Conclusion

This episode of Confessions of a Female Founder offers an unfiltered look into the trials and triumphs of two remarkable women. Through candid discussions, Megan and Whitney illuminate the intertwined paths of personal growth and business success, providing invaluable insights for anyone striving to turn their entrepreneurial dreams into reality while maintaining authenticity and self-love.

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Notable Quotes:

• Megan ([28:08]): "The one thing you can never get back is time... your precious time."
• Whitney ([24:15]): "Or even liking yourself is a revolutionary act."
• Whitney ([44:23]): "If Bumble from 2014 to 2024 was about women making the first move, 2025 onward is about making the first move for yourself."
• Megan ([27:48]): "Don't take this route to the top of Everest. It's not worth it. The view is not worth it."

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Upcoming Episode: Next week, Megan and Whitney will be joined by a founder who has dedicated her life to championing girls and women. Stay tuned for more inspiring stories on Confessions of a Female Founder.

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This summary captures the essence of the conversation between Megan and Whitney Wolfe Herd, highlighting their personal experiences, professional insights, and the profound lessons they've learned along their entrepreneurial journeys.

Transcript

[Megan]

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[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

The one.

[Megan]

Thing you can never get back is your precious time. And the amount of time, Meg, that I wasted on being stressed, being miserable, being overwhelmed, being paranoid about what shoe was going to drop. You know what? I actually think I would have been more successful had I not been like that.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

I'm Megan and this is Confessions of a Female Founder, a show where I chat with female entrepreneurs and friends about the sleepless nights, the lessons learned, and the laser focus that got them to where they are today.

[Megan]

No time to get down cause I'm moving up no time to get down cause I'm moving up no time to get down cause I'm moving up.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Let's be honest, launching a business, it can be so overwhelming. Even with the best of teams, it'll keep you up at night. Because every single decision, every micro detail in that moment, it feels monumental. For example, a month ago I was absolutely consumed with packaging boxes. That's all I could think about. And I would sit there doing the unboxing in my head. Is there tissue paper? What about the packing peanuts? But they're biodegradable and where does the sticker go? And hold on. What size of the box is gonna be? And no, that's not gonna fit all the skus. Oh, my gosh. And then someone says, but you don't wanna brand the outside of the box because of porch pirates. Had never heard that before. What's a porch pirate? And then I'm sitting there, and I'm like, does any of this actually matter? Of course it matters. It matters at the beginning. But how much does it matter? And the person that I thought. No, the person that I knew was perfect to talk to about this, that had to lead the season. Well, she's one of my closest friends. She's the founder of the dating app Bumble. She's been named one of Time magazine's most influential people. Instyles, Women changing the world. The list goes on and on and on. You've heard of her. It's Whitney Wolfhard. Not only is Whitney a wildly successful female entrepreneur, but she's the kind of friend who just always seems to. To know the exact right thing to say when I need perspective.

[Megan]

Did you try your best? You know, like, did you really give it your all? And if you missed the meetings for the packaging and you let it slide till the final hour, then, like, yeah, that. That's not great. But if you gave it your all and this is the way it ended up, like, it's gonna be good. It's gonna be great.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

And Whit is an undeniable visionary, but what I love most about her is her ability to cut through the noise, focus on what truly matters, and be vulnerable in the honesty of what that experience has been like. Even when you're like me and you're sitting around stressed about packaging, you're in for a treat. How you doing, beauty?

[Megan]

I'm just so happy to see you. And this is gonna be so much fun.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

I know. I know. Me. And honestly, I just want the conversations to feel relaxed and easy. And also thinking about how I am just in it right now, talking to people who've also been so in it and have so many iterations, whether they've IPO'd or they're at the beginning of their climb or they said, great, I'm done, and then came back.

[Megan]

Yeah, those things happen.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Those things happen. And then the evolution of that. So I wanna talk about all of that. But I think when it's friends that are on with me, that we have such a deep personal relationship and connection and love, as opposed to starting with just where it all began for you, I wanna start with where we first met.

[Megan]

I love that. Oh, God. Do you remember when I came to your house in a disco cowboy outfit? Yes. For New Year's Eve, I was like, how am I going to meet this iconic, elegant, classy couple? And I'm wearing a rhinestone disco crystal ball cowboy outfit. Because that was the theme on New Year's Eve.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

That was. Yes, yes. That was the theme for the party you were heading to after you had dropped by our place. And it wasn't the theme of our. No, we were having one of those quiet, we have young kids, we aren't having a night out kind of New Year's Eve where we would have. I'd call it a East Coast New Year's. So that ball is dropping for our 9pm and I'm going to bed. But you guys came over with our other friends, and it was the first time we met the two of you. And to this day, Archie still will say, when do I get to see the cowboys again? That first impression for him is so ingrained that even though. Yes, I mean, your husband is a cowboy and, yes, you guys, like, that is a huge part of your life. But to see a real cowboy as a. What was he at the time? Two or three.

[Megan]

Oh, my gosh, he was so tiny. And they were so sweet. They were the sweetest, sweetest. And they. I think Archie ran out in like a Batman suit or some. Oh, no, like PJ masks. PJ masks. One of those.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Yeah.

[Megan]

That was the beginning of our. Our whirlwind.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

That was the beginning. And that was even where I didn't think it was going to become a friendship. That would also be, in many ways, the soundboard for me with work and business. And I was still in such an incubation stage, not even of a brand, but just in ideation of what it could be. And you always. I mean, think about so many times sitting there where you're like, okay, let's talk it through. Let's make a plan. What's the business plan? What do you want to do? What's your essence? No way this could be right for you and just helping me. Whereas so many people, I think, often will make the false assumption that when someone is really successful, part of that success is because they keep it close. Where really part of that success is because you share it so broadly.

[Megan]

I think that's beautiful.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

So generously. No, but it's true. I'm talking about you. Like, that's how you show up. And I've. I mean, I've loved that. We've never actually talked extensively about Everything that happened with you and your career trajectory and a lot of it is like covered ground. So I don't need us to go through all that. I think people know your story of going from Tinder and then certainly creating your own thing. But I would love to talk about even before all of that. Before all of that, what was that voice inside? Who was that person inside that knew you had an entrepreneurial spirit or not?

[Megan]

No, I think that's amazing. And I will say, I do think your story is just you. Like, it's just an embodiment of you. And I always think that those are the best entrepreneurs where they just basically, I don't know, it's like they bottle their essence. And that doesn't have to be a perfume company. Right.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

That keeps coming up. That's so. That's so wild. You said that exact thing. Yes, Your essence. How do you bottle your essence?

[Megan]

Yeah, it's like, how do you bring you to the world? And what's interesting, I've always said this about consumer products and technology. You can feel the DNA of the founders or the founder in the product you use. And so I just think that that is really what true entrepreneurship is. Real people solving real problems and putting their real energy and passion into it. And then that manifests into whatever it is. And I always joke, I'm like, I didn't wake up at 6 and be like, I want to have a dating app.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

That's not how it happened.

[Megan]

No, no.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Yet authentically, authentically, you knew that there was a need and you figured out a different way to fill that need.

[Megan]

Yes. I think it was just always in me. And it's so funny. Everyone always says, like, oh, I wonder if entrepreneurs were always entrepreneurial. And I don't that means you had to have like sold out the lemonade stand as a 10 year old. I really don't think that that's the true metric of a young entrepreneur. I think it was, how did you move through the world? How did you think about lines and boundaries? How did you think about following rules or thinking outside of the box? And so many of us put through school systems as we all are, you know, we actually get rewarded for following along and doing what everybody else is doing. If you think about it like structural, you get an A if you answered the question right and somebody wrote the question and the answer for you. Now, obviously there's some creative classes where you are rewarded for thinking different. But the basic curriculum and framework in our lives is follow the rules, be on time. So we're not trained to be rewarded, to be these free thinkers and, you know, movers and shakers. And I always struggled with that. Candidly, growing up, I was like, why do I have to check the same box as everybody else? Like, I want to do things differently.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Yeah. And I think most people would be surprised to know that Bumble, even you wanting to do something differently was not called Bumble at first.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Can you just talk a little bit about your original concept, which was an app called Merci. And where did that name come from? What was the intention?

[Megan]

Well, the original intention behind Bumble was actually not a dating app. It was meant to be a essentially girls and women only social network where we could encourage kindness amongst women. Because I was being, you know, certainly not to the degree that you've experienced, but I was being bullied on the Internet. When I left Tinder because of the lawsuit.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

And that was the lawsuit for sexual harassment that you were experiencing.

[Megan]

Yeah. When I left the company, there was a whole fallout. And because of the fallout, I could have never imagined nor predicted the level of attention it got from the media. I truly, I mean, in my mind it was like a 24 year old random young woman. I'm like, why does anybody care what I'm doing, you know?

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

And why do you think it garnered so much attention?

[Megan]

Well, I think the issue is we were so insular in our work at Tinder. Like it was like all day, non stop startup world. Like, you know, you lived it, you breathed it. Because of that, I don't think there was any perspective of how big it got in the world. I had no idea. I mean, I knew by volume and the magnitude of the registrations and the data. Right, of course. So I conceptually understood that this was a product that was growing and working, but man, I had no perspective of the cultural interest in it. And so when this all unfolded here, I naively thought, oh, this will just be like between me and them and it will get swept under the rug and this will just be behind us. And then next thing you know, it's the front page of every global newspaper and it's exposes in every magazine. And this just doesn't stop. It goes on and on and on and on.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

And you're 24, I'm 24, and I'm.

[Megan]

Not in the public eye. Like, I am not famous. I don't come from like any type of famous family. So I just figured, like, this will just blow over. So I was like, okay, I'll just go into the future. I'm going to Build something great. I'm going to start over and lo and behold, and I will come back to the Mary piece. But because of the nature of it being technically another dating app, I just got dragged into this swell again. It was like, you know, getting beat up in the ocean and you couldn't catch a breath. You're like, oh, my gosh, no one wants to leave me alone. So. Meg, it wasn't until like four, five, six years into building Bumble until people saw Stopped with the Tinder comparisons. I had to literally, like, outgrow them to some degree to stand on my own two feet. But back to mercy, like, no, but.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

What did that feel like for those four to five years?

[Megan]

Horrible. Yeah, I mean, I, you know, that's why when I see the way that, you know, you've been treated in the media, which is a magnitude I'll never understand, but my heart breaks for you. I'm like, it's not fair and it's brutalizing and so.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Well, and maybe because you understand it in whatever degree you know how to show up for me.

[Megan]

Yeah, maybe. I mean, listen, I. Honestly, I. I can imagine, but I can't because what has happened to you is at such a magnitude that no one can understand. Can I share the story of where I had that revelation when I was walking through the airport in Ireland?

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Oh, yes.

[Megan]

Okay. So I stopped through the airport in Ireland and I walked over by whatever their equivalent of like a WH Smith or whatever those Hudson newsstand. Yes. And my jaw hit the floor. You were the COVID of every single magazine and newspaper in Ireland, and every single one said something different. I mean, random headline, random headline, Right. You were the COVID of every single one of those magazines, tabloids and newspapers. And I had this moment where I was like.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

And this was a couple years ago. Yeah, yeah.

[Megan]

And I was like, holy.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Oh, my.

[Megan]

What? Like, I'm in Ireland, she's back home in California with her kids, like, doing school drop off, and she's the front page of every single one of these things. What are they talking about? Like, there's no content. There's nothing to say. So, I mean, I just had this moment where I was like, wow, this is a different beast.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

I mean, but it doesn't feel different whether it's at that scale or not.

[Megan]

No, but I do think there is so much to be said for your ability to exist even in the presence of that. Like, that takes a very strong cookie, you know, because I remember when I was going through the media storm and being called this and that and this and that. At Tinder, I didn't leave my house for like a month and a half. I was completely paranoid. I was totally depressed. I was scared to go to the grocery store. I was humiliated. I was embarrassed. I didn't want to go to a party where I would see anyone because.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

I'm like, you wondered if they believed it.

[Megan]

Yeah. What are they thinking about me? They must think I'm a this, I must think I'm a that. And so I. I like shrunk into this shell of myself where we turtle. Yeah. I just turtled. I was like, wow, I'm. I'm never going outside again. I'll just live, you know, I'll just live in my own isolated world. But then I, I decided, I was like, you know what? I'm going to rebuild myself. I'm going to rebuild myself.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

But how did that happen? How did you come out of the shell and decide to move past that? Because I think that's really important for people to hear, no matter whatever scale they're at. There's going to be a point where you're going to take a hit.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

And there's gonna be a point where you're going to have to decide if you're going to cower or if you're going to conquer or if you're going to rise above it. But it's. It will be helpful for people to know what was the pivotal point where you just said, okay, I can't do this anymore. I've got to figure out a way out and how.

[Megan]

Yeah. I had a moment where I realized it was crazy. It was almost like an out of body moment where I was reading all these crazy things about myself on Twitter or whatever the format was at the time.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

You were reading it all?

[Megan]

Oh, yeah, of course. Because what is this? You know, like, you're crazy.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

I know.

[Megan]

Lesson learned. But I, I remember thinking, oh, my God. And I think I had this like out of body experience where I put myself into my 13 year old body and I thought, holy. Excuse my French, but holy. Like, imagine being 13 years old and dealing with this type of behavior from the kids at school that you think are the center of the world.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Yes.

[Megan]

Like, like imagine if these people talking about you were the kids you looked up to at school or wanted to be a part of their group at school. And then you got picked up from school and where. When we grew up, Meg, we could go home with no devices.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

And that was it.

[Megan]

That was it. You're out of the battle zone. You can, you're done, you get to escape. Until tomorrow they're going home and they're reading that all night long. And I literally was like, oh my God, I think I just went through this. I think this just happened for me, not to me. And my entire mindset shifted and I was like, okay, what almost killed me can make us stronger. I have to go fix this problem for 13 year olds. Like, I have to go fix this problem for young girls and women.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Yes.

[Megan]

And so that kicked off the beginning of Mayor C, which was meant to be the reason why the name. Wow, that was a 25 minute long winded way of getting to the answer.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

I didn't help, by the way, but it's important. But it's important background to get back to the why it is.

[Megan]

And I think ultimately why I was going to call it Mercy is I wanted it to be a environment of thanks and gratitude. And thank you in French is merci. I speak French. I just like the name. I thought it was cute. And the currency of the product, the one like the core defining feature of the product was going to be compliments only. No comments, just compliments. Oh, and there's a lot of literature and a lot of studies out there that actually show you the power of compliments. How if you compliment someone, you can have this butterfly effect on multiple people's days. Like you, you know, you say something kind to someone, it's a ripple effect. They might say something kind to the next person. It changes the course of the energy of the day. And so I figured, let's engineer positivity into a product. Long story short, couldn't find any funding. Randomly got contacted by my former business partner and investor. He kind of said, listen, I'm all for whatever this is because I can feel your passion, but my one prerequisite is that you got to figure out how to do it in dating. I thought he was crazy. I said goodbye to him. I never intended on speaking to him again. But then I kind of started thinking, wait a second, maybe dating is not so dissimilar from this. Like, maybe dating is broken for girls and women too. And most certainly that was a correlation to my dating experiences. You know, in high school I had a terribly abusive boyfriend. And then I just found myself in these toxic relationships time after time. And I realized, like, wow, this is systemic. This is not just about a social network. This is about behaviors. And that was kind of the beginning of women making the first move on Bumble. So that's the long winded version.

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[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Also, I mean, you touch on just now having been in an abusive relationship or a toxic relationship. You look at what you've manifested now in your life with this incredible loving, sweet as can be husband, crazy cowboy and two boys. Yes, I mean it is no mistake that you ended up with two boys when so much of it for you is rewriting the history of what men and boys should be in the world and that you are the one that is responsible for creating the next generation of really good men. You are married to one. And then you have these two just incredible boys. They're so sweet, but it's so interesting.

[Megan]

It is.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

You have a family of boys. You're surrounded by this energetic circle of the opposite of toxic masculinity.

[Megan]

That is very true. And I will tell you, Meg, the one thing I have learned in my journey, and it's so interesting because this is exactly what we're focusing on at Bumble, is at the end of the day, none of this is really just about girls or boys or boys versus girls. It's all about the way we love ourselves or we don't. And what I've seen with boys and men, through my wild journey of running these products at scale with millions of people doing millions of crazy things every day, I've really learned one thing. And it is a bunch of hurt people hurting people. And that's really what it boils down to. And so you've kind of just nailed it in this, like, manifestation of like something better and positive. And what that really boils down to is I had to learn how to like myself over the years. And I, when I look back on these relationships, I'm like, oh, I must have really hated myself because I tolerated that and I put up with that.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Yeah. And look, I think you and I have really connected on that in a huge way. But I remember a quote from years ago. I can't remember who said it, but it's something to the effect of it's not verbatim. In a world that capitalizes on your self doubt, loving yourself is a revolutionary act.

[Megan]

I love that quote. It's some version of that. You're right.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Or even liking yourself is a revolutionary act.

[Megan]

Yes, yes.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

You know, you create a space with the intention, even if it morphed into something that ended up dating aligned. The root, the origin was still about autonomy, self love. Making sure that you could really advocate for yourself and be in a relationship or even the possibility of a relationship that's rooted in something that's healthy.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

And because it was so authentic to you, that's how you ended up scaling to the tremendous success that you were. I mean, I'm sure the first time I ever heard about you was in Time magazine being the youngest self made billionaire female billionaire huge. What on earth did that feel like?

[Megan]

Well, you know, it's funny. It's like at my on paper richest, I was my inward poorest.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

What does that mean to you?

[Megan]

That means that what it took out of me to hit those milestones actually robbed me of my real wealth. The ability to connect with myself, to take time for myself, to focus on my physical, mental, spiritual health, to focus on my relationships, to focus on the things that actually make you the wealthiest in life. So while my financial wealth on paper was this like crazy, crazy headline and like world record thing, whatever, didn't even matter because all these other buckets were so low. And so what has been beautiful and I, I wrote a letter to myself over the summer, actually our stock hit an all time low and I wrote a letter to myself that day and I said, today is one of the best days of my life. I said, because my other buckets of wealth are so overflowing that it just want to cry. Doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter what a stock price is today. It's not how I meas my worth.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

But what made you in that want to write a letter to yourself? How would that become a part of the practice for you?

[Megan]

I just thought, you know what, I better clock in and I better check in because I want to remember this day. I want to remember this day. I want to remember that I got to a place of self growth where on a day that should feel like the worst day in terms of riding the waves of success, right? Things always go up and down. And I just remember I wrote myself a letter and I just said this is like the best day ever. I have healthy children, I love my husband. It's beautiful where I am. I hiked, I meditated. Like I just reflected in this moment of gratitude of all the things I do have. And I think it's a really good reminder to people that you have to take stock of how you measure your happiness, your wealth and how you define it.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Take stock in your actual stock.

[Megan]

That's right.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

I think it's, it's amazing how evolved you are. It takes a lot of years for most people to be able to have that level of wisdom and an internal compass. It really does. And I mean, especially when you spent a career doing the work, the business work, how would you approach that or what advice, I guess would you give to people who are listening that say, okay, well you're saying you felt so depleted and the buckets were so low or so empty and all these other categories, but it's because of that you were able to still get to this number and get those metrics and isn't that the goal? And then you could fill up your cups again. Would you do it differently.

[Megan]

Totally, totally. And I think, you know, the one thing I can offer to the world is actually a blueprint of, hey, don't take this route to the top of Everest. It's not worth it. Like, the view is not worth it. Don't do it. Because the one thing you can never get back is time.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Yeah.

[Megan]

Is your precious time. And the amount of time, Meg, that I wasted on being stressed, being miserable, being overwhelmed, being paranoid about what shoe was going to drop. You know what? I actually think I would have been more successful had I not been like that.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

But can you turn it off? I'm. I. I say this because last night I was just. You know when your brain goes in a loop.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Those 3:00am loops, and it's just like, you can't stop.

[Megan]

I know.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Thinking the thing. And how are you going to address that? And, oh, gosh, with that packaging. And I want the packaging to look like this. And that's not the unboxing experience I had in mind. And what. How are we going to pivot? And does it matter?

[Megan]

I think you have to really take a deep breath and say, you know what? How big of a deal is this? And I would size it up.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Yeah.

[Megan]

Is this going to matter? I used to use the rule of nine, so I like the number five better. So, like, will this matter in five minutes? Yes. Is it going to matter in five hours? Yes or no? Is it going to matter in five days? Yes or no? If it's not going to matter in five years, like, throw it out the window. Who cares? Like, if this is not going to be a defining issue in your business, your life, your family, in five years, like, you'll be fine. And so when you're ruminating in the middle of the night, you're like, oh, but the box came out the wrong texture. Well, is that a problem in five months? Like, not really, because you can switch that box. You can get a new box in the next few weeks.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Right. And will anyone else know what the box was supposed to look like?

[Megan]

No.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Right. That's the other piece. But I think so much of it, especially at launch.

[Megan]

Yeah, I get it. Trust me, I get it.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

And first impression and the pressure, and you try to compare. I try to compartmentalize it and say, okay, all I can control is this extension of my essence and my aesthetic and what I wanted to share with people. But, you know, I think in that focus on the details, at what point can you release some of the attachment to it? Right. To be completely attached to the process and Attached to the intention, but in some ways detached from the outcome.

[Megan]

I mean, you have to detach from the outcome. You have to. It's a little bit like the way we talk to our children. It's, did you try your best? You know, like, did you really give it your all? And if you didn't, like, if you, you know, if you missed the meetings for the packaging and you let it slide till the final hour, then like, yeah, that, that's not great. But if you gave it your all and like, you really, you know what, you did what you could, your team did what they could, and this is the way it ended up. Like, it's gonna be good, it's gonna be great. And I also think that, candidly, energy is everything. And I think if you're so stressed, launching, your customers will feel the stress of that. And so it's almost like, shake it off. It's like it's, you know, I don't. I'm not comparing our customers for our businesses to the way our children pick up on energy, but there's something deeply intuitive and brilliant about the way children can read energy. You know, if you're stressed, children can feel it. I also feel that there's an intangible invisible energy attached to launches, attached to products, attached to all this. And so you kind of want to like, do a happy dance for your products and send them out the window because, like, that happy energy is going to land in someone's kitchen counter and you want that for them. And so I think it's kind of like, just shake it off.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Yeah. And to infuse the joy into it, go back to the why. The why of it all was always in the spirit of sharing something that I loved. Sharing a piece of what I love that people maybe hadn't been able to experience. And I wonder for you, because your boys are a little bit older now. Do people know their names? Can I say their names?

[Megan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Okay, so Bobby and Henry are a little bit older now, but also still in the same age bracket as Archie and Lily. Do you find that going through all of this as a mom was different than prior to. And your perspective was different?

[Megan]

Oh, yeah, totally. I mean, crazy different. I think being a mother, as you know, nothing comes before that. Nothing.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

I know.

[Megan]

I mean, it is. They're extensions of our soul and our heart, and their well being is our well being. And so I think it forces you to prioritize in ways that for me, I never did before. I mean, prior to Bobbi's birth, I mean, even up until I was literally delivering, I was opening my eyes at, you know, God knows what hour, hitting it immediately on that laptop, immediately on phone calls, immediately pressure testing, emails, stress, stress, stress, stress, stress. Like make it better. More can I achieve. What more can I achieve? What more can I achieve? And. And I could just like burn myself out. Right. But I was fine because it was just me. Like, who cares? It was just me.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

An autopilot.

[Megan]

Yeah. Boom, boom, boom. Like, whatever. I'll be fine. I'll work through the flu, I'll work through a cold, I'll work through exhaustion. But when you have these little angels and they need you, and they need a good version of you, it literally forces you to make choices and to prioritize. And so I think the thing that has changed for me is like I have zero issue now saying no to things that don't matter. The way I look at it is like, okay, I could either be doing that thing or it could be with my children. And if that thing is not going to add to the lives and the well being of my children, meaning it's going to enhance the outcome of the business or it's going to enhance the member experience of the business. Like, why would I do it?

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

It's not high value enough.

[Megan]

Yeah, like, no, not right now.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

And you've learned to create boundaries, which I think is so important. They're important in business. It's so key, especially when you're talking in the grind of a business where you have a small team and then once you scale to a really large team that they can have a touch point with you. But there's also a boundary so that you're protecting your own energy, you're protecting the relationship with the team as well. But you can. You know, I've talked to a couple other founders about this. The pressure that they feel to be the cheerleader for everyone. And all of that makes sense to a certain extent. But also who's cheerleading you?

[Megan]

That's right.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Maybe that shifts once we have a solid family network, as both of us do, to be able to. And girlfriends that can fill up the cup in that way. And we both had very similar experiences that we didn't know each other at the time with postpartum.

[Megan]

Yep.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

And we both had preeclampsia.

[Megan]

Can you believe we both had that? It's so rare.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

It's so rare.

[Megan]

And so scary. And so scary.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

And you go, and you're still trying to juggle all of these things. And the world doesn't know what's happening quietly. And in the quiet, you're still trying to show up for people. And in the quiet, you're still just trying to show up mostly for your children. Children. But those things are huge medical scares.

[Megan]

I mean, life or death, truly, it's like, really scary. I mean, I'll never forget the image of you after you delivered Archie and the whole world was, like, waiting for his debut. And like, I was, you know, either just becoming or about to become a new mom. And I was like, oh, my God, how is this woman doing this? Like, how is this woman putting on heels and going and debuting a child in this, you know, beautiful outfit in front of the entire world? Like, I could barely face a doorbell delivery for takeout food, you know, like in a robe. I was like, please don't look at me. Leave it down the street.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Can I be back in my cocoon?

[Megan]

Postpartum is wild. It's so wild. And it's almost like one foot in one world and one foot in another world. And it's a very confusing place to live in. I wonder if it's how we were raised to think, like, oh, once you're a mom, like, that's the primary goal. But it's, you know, it's so funny. I, like, can't distinguish if it's society or if it's an innate feeling in me.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Yeah. I don't know if it's nature or nurture. I think a lot of you also have to layer in the fact that we became moms in this pandemic, post pandemic culture too, where there's so much more working from home. And I wonder if it would feel different. Like, yes, you'll still travel for work, as will I. But I wonder if it's. I don't leave the house to go to an office. My office is here.

[Megan]

Right.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

So oftentimes, I mean, Lily still naps. She gets picked up early and she naps. And she only has a half day in preschool.

[Megan]

Right.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

So if she wakes up and she wants to find me, she knows where to find me. Even if my door is closed to the office, she'll be sitting there on my lap during one of these meetings with a grid of all the executives. And here we are. And I think, you know, that could have something to do with it. But also, I. I wouldn't have it any other way. I don't want to miss those moments. I don't want to miss pickup if I don't have to. I don't want to miss drop off.

[Megan]

And I Don't either.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

And I. What I do love the most about having young kids in this chapter while I'm building is the perspective that it brings. Because you're building something while your child's going through potty training.

[Megan]

Yeah. You're like, hold on, sorry, we're having multiple accidents around here.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

And both are just as important.

[Megan]

Yeah, exactly.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

It's like, great, okay, where's the Cheerios? Well done. And then you're championing your team 10 minutes later about something that is really high value for the world. But in your own world, that's super high value. And in her world, that's super high value.

[Megan]

I love that. I think that perspective is beautiful. And I don't think they're all that dissimilar. I mean, because when you launch a company, it is a baby of some kind, right? Like, there is such an emotional attachment. Something you, you do in a different way, obviously, but metaphorically. Birth. Right. Like, you conceive of the idea. You, you work it, you grow it, you agonize over it, you love it, you have all of this energy towards it and then it's out in the world. Like, Bumble, I always say, is like my first child because I just gave it so much, you know, and so much of me is in it. And so I think it's just making space for all of it and allowing all the beautiful chaos to exist. And I, I love that my children know that, like, mommy's going to a meeting because mommy works. And, you know, I think it, it's shown them that, like, there's structure and there's times during the day for play and there's times during the day to be serious and focus and get things done. And like, that's how things progress in the world. Right? Like, it's the way it works. And I also think to your point, technology is a beautiful tool for parents because you can dial in and be present and do a great job on the call while you sit in the carpool line outside school. It's so true, right? Like, why do I need to be at a desk? I have the same mental opinion in a carpool line.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Yeah.

[Megan]

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[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

So in 2023, you stepped down as CEO of Bumble.

[Megan]

Yeah.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

And yet, Whit, here we are a year and a half later and you're back in charge.

[Megan]

Oh, yeah.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

What is, what is it? What is it? That's a plot twist.

[Megan]

That is a plot twist.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

So how, how does that feel to come back into something that you were, I would imagine the emotional experience of making real peace with. Okay, it's time. It's time. Things are shifting. And that in and of itself was newsworthy, but emotionally, such a huge moment for you. And now about a year later, coming back into something that you had been stepping away from, what does that feel like?

[Megan]

I mean, it's definitely wild. The way I would explain it is, you know, know, Bumble was my long term relationship for 10 years. And I think we both faced a moment where I think I looked at Bumble and said, is this my forever? Or has our relationship run its course? And will, will we be in each other's lives, but in a different way? Meaning we're not going to be married anymore, but I will still, you know, oversee and make sure it's thriving and make sure it's okay. And I think I kind of broke up with Bumble to some degree.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

You were consciously uncoupling.

[Megan]

I was consciously uncoupling with Bumble and I, I just needed to find myself. Yeah, right. I needed to find myself. I, I think I was confused about who I even was. People were like, oh, it's the Bumble girl. I'm like, but what does that even mean? What's The Bumble girl. And I was really enjoying my separation. I was, you know, living my life, my professional single life. Very married, very married romantically. But I was enjoying my professional single life, which meant like, freedom. I didn't, you know, have to report to this thing all day, every day. And I was exploring the world. Is there another industry I like? Is there another passion I have? Nothing was clicking. It was this, like, I guess I'll just stay professionally single a little longer. I'll just stay professionally single longer. With no intention of going back to Bumblebee. And I went on this journey of, I would call it self love, self discovery. And I had this epiphany about halfway into my time off. I was like, someone, meaning me, needs to go and do a. Basically a precursor to a dating app. It's like, get to know yourself. Get to love yourself. Date yourself first. Swipe right on yourself first before you swipe right on others, because you'll swipe right on better people if you know who you are and if you love yourself. So I really have, like, really started to build this concept out. And then my lovely and wonderful CEO, she, for personal reasons decided to leave and her path went in this way and the universe sort of realigned and said, you're not done here. Like, come back, you're still in love with me.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Well, and that you had that time to almost a sabbatical.

[Megan]

Yeah, it was a separation. And now we're back together and I'm madly in love with Bumble and I'm bringing all of my time away with me. And I'm going to foundationally re architect the way people date and the way people love. Because there is certainly no way to make people feel better about themselves by relying on the validation of others. It all has to come from within. And so that's the path. That's the path.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

I think that's such good framing. And so now with you coming back in with a different perspective post sabbatical, how are you going to. You don't have to reveal all the secrets, but your idea of being able to re engineer it in a way that even despite those changes, or because of those changes, with those changes, in honor of those changes, how you expand that greater thinking about beginning with the love of self to create something that might be even larger than you had even originally imagined.

[Megan]

I'll frame it this way. If Bumble from 2014 to 2024 was about women making the first move, 2025 onward is about making the first move for yourself.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

So good and inclusive in that it is inclusive.

[Megan]

It's inclusive and it's bigger than just women versus men. I think the blessing of having two boys has really shown me that, you know, the last few years has been a huge learning curve for me because I was on this quest of like boys don't treat girls well and men don't treat women well. And this is a man problem and this is a boy problem. And I've really learned like this is not a boy problem or a man problem. It is a self hatred problem. And guess what? All the industries go out of business if we like ourselves. The anti aging companies don't have a future. Botox is gone. All of it's gone. If we just liked ourselves the way we were. And so that doesn't mean you can't do self improvement and you can't, you know, love to dress up and wear your favorite makeup. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying like we have been been programmed to hate ourselves or to.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Have to find something to fix.

[Megan]

Yeah.

Like we have to always be a project and so that's what it's about.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

But also, but with this goes, it's so great because it goes right back to what you were saying earlier about the energy and the ripple effect from the very first origin with Merci before it was bumble of the idea of with one compliment and the ripple effect of that full circle. Eleven years later, you're creating a larger ripple effect of the very thing you've been talking about from the beginning.

[Megan]

Yeah, no, I think you're right. I mean that's, that's how I look at it.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

So it's your essence.

[Megan]

This is what it all comes back to. It's just putting your goodwill and your problem solving energy into the world and it enhances. And I think what's funny about what you were saying earlier is how you were like, you know, oh, I'm stressing in the middle of night or this or that. I think my piece of advice, if I, if I can give it, is like, please, you're such an amazing hostess and when you go to your home, you're like, you're just like engulfed in love and coziness and yumminess. Like both from just like the energy and the surroundings, but like the things you feed us and like the way you treat us. And I think like just carry you through and the rest writes itself.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

I love that so much. I have all these notes I haven't looked down, I haven't looked at any of my notes. I'm sure I've missed all sorts of points, but, I mean, I just love, loved being able to chat because I think it's our friendship coming through, but also just who we are as moms, as women, as people who've gone through our own unique experiences but are able to see it through a lens of how can I help other women specifically, but other people who are also on their same search for what they want to put out into the world authentically with their essence and how you reorg yourself.

[Megan]

Yes. Yeah, you gotta do it. We gotta take stock. I mean, imagine if they had given us a bottle of for this conversation. Oh, my gosh, Are you joking? It'd be so good.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

I was thinking that I'll just send wine and we'll just chat.

[Megan]

If anyone's ever wondering what lunch between us looks like, this is basically it. With, like, a couple glasses of wine and it's exactly it. This is basically it.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

It's exactly. I appreciate you so much. This was awesome.

[Megan]

I am here for you, whatever you need, anytime.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Thank you.

[Megan]

And everyone's gonna get the real loving essence of you, and I'm excited for that.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Oh, my gosh. You're the best.

[Megan]

I'm proud of you.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Thank you. Next week, we're speaking with a founder who's turned championing girls and women into her life's work.

[Megan]

Oftentimes, women are having to downshift or make choices. And the way we've tried to solve this problem is say, well, the problem is women, right? Like, you got to get more confidence. You got to power pose. You know your way before a meeting. You got to get a mentor, right? It's all about, you're wrong, you're broken. When really it's just structural.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

Can you guess who it is? I'll see you then.

[Megan]

Confessions of a Female Founder is a production of Lemonade Media created and hosted by Megan. Our producers are Catherine Barnes and Oha Lopez. Kristen Lepore is our senior supervising producer. Executive producers are Stephanie Whittles Wax, Jessica Cordova Kramer and Megan. Mix and sound design are by Johnny Vincevans. Rachel Neal is our VP of new content and production and Steve Nelson is our SVP of weekly content and production. You can help others find our show by leaving us a review, rating and writing a review. There's more. Confessions of a Female Founder with Lemonada. Premium subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content when you subscribe in Apple podcasts. You can also listen ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Thanks so much for listening. We'll see you next week.

[Whitney Wolfe Herd]

We did it. We did it. We did it, did it, did it. Minute.

[Megan]

We hope you enjoyed Confessions of a Female Founder with Megan. If you'd like to support the show, the best way to do so is by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. It helps more incredible listeners like you discover the series. Thank you.