Confessions of an Implementer: “Culture By Design — Hiring For Values Not Just Skills”

Guest: C.J. Dube
Host: Ryan Hogan
Date: October 22, 2025

Episode Overview

In this insightful episode, host Ryan Hogan sits down with EOS Implementer C.J. Dube to explore the art and science of building company culture through values-driven hiring. Drawing from her extensive career in leadership, recruiting, entrepreneurship, and over 15 years as an EOS Implementer, C.J. shares hard-won lessons about hiring, accountability, and culture development. The conversation delves into how intentional design of values and structure can create healthier, more productive organizations, with practical advice for leaders at every stage.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. C.J.’s Journey to EOS and Foundation in Recruiting

• Background:

  • Over 16 years as an EOS Implementer.
  • 830+ all-day EOS sessions, 130+ clients.
  • Early start in restaurant management, technical staffing, and HR consulting.
  • Started and ran both an HR consulting business (grew to $8M in 3 years) and a massage center.

• Lessons from Entrepreneurship:

  • Running a massage center (her “hobby business”) taught her about managing culturally diverse teams and the importance of adaptable marketing and financial savvy.
    • “The best marketing I had was painting my window.” [11:25]
  • Learned the hard way about cash flow and payroll: “There were some tough times, but I gritted it out and the end, it was great. Great learning.” [12:30]

• Recruiting Philosophy:

  • Importance of right person, right seat—transcends skill. Focus on values and accountability.
  • “Structure first,” then match people to roles and values, considering runway for growth and development.

2. Hiring for Values, Not Just Skills

• Establishing Values:

  • Start by clearly identifying and living your organization’s core values.
  • Use behavioral interview questions to test value alignment.
    • “Be clear on the seat that you want... If you need someone to be up and running like now, then you need to hire for that, and be prepared to pay for that too.” [18:18] — C.J.

• Balancing Skills and Coaching:

  • Technical skills can be taught, but passion, willingness, and coachability are crucial.
  • Use EOS concepts: does a person Get it, Want it, have the Capacity (GWC)?
    • “GWC, over time can change... how long are you willing to get someone up to speed?” [15:09]

• Timing in the Hiring Process:

  • “Hire slow, fire fast”—take time and due diligence in hiring to ensure fit, rather than plugging holes under pressure.
    • “The problem is, if you just put a butt in a seat... six months later, you're looking again.” [18:18]

• Avoiding the “Purple Unicorn” Trap:

  • Don’t overload roles with impossible or conflicting expectations.
  • “Most people don’t learn to like HR. They either like it or they don’t. You’re right.” [23:25]

3. Building Accountability Charts & Organizational Structure

• Designing for Growth:

  • Define roles and structure based on the current and future needs of the business.
  • Revisit and reshape accountability charts as the company evolves.

• Adding New Functions:

  • When to expand beyond core areas (operations, sales/marketing, finance) depends on business size, complexity, and maturity.
    • “Sometimes more importantly... the stronger your middle management, the stronger the leadership team, the more the company’s gonna scale and grow and be healthy.” [30:18]

4. Intentional Culture: Moving Beyond “Happy Accidents”

• Cultural Evolution:

  • Early-stage businesses often run as “happy accidents” — family, friends, and informality.
  • Growth requires intentional structure and clarity about roles and expectations.

• Types of Cultures:

  • Intentional & Healthy: The ideal—clear structure, strong values, ongoing coaching and accountability.
  • Command and Control: Can still be found, but less effective/generationally out of step with today’s workforce expectations.
    • “Nowadays, generationally, newer generations... do not want to work for control and command.” [36:10]

• Healing Chaos:

  • Companies evolve through periods of chaos; the move toward an intentionally healthy culture requires conscious effort, often with an 18-month runway to see major change.
    • “How do we get where we can be an intentionally healthy business? That takes a lot of us working together as a leadership team... and then make sure that we're hiring and firing and mentoring and motivating to that.” [00:00 & 34:13]

5. Developing Managers and Middle Leadership

• The Linchpin Role:

  • The success of an organization’s scale and health rises or falls with middle management.
    • “You really are as only as good as your middle management.” [30:18]

• Intentional Development:

  • Invest in training and supporting managers, as they translate vision into day-to-day practice.

6. Difficult Conversations and Compassionate Accountability

• Letting People Go:

  • Fire fast instead of letting problems fester; do it with transparency and care.
  • Provide real-time feedback within 24 hours—positive or negative.
    • “We owe it to people to be honest with them.” [46:41] — C.J.

• Role of the Implementer:

  • Acts as a coach, confidant, and sometimes the necessary voice of tough love.
    • “I will look someone in the face, tell them I love them, but also tell them they're full of shit.” [49:38]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On intentional culture design:
  “How do we get where we can be an intentionally healthy business?... What are the values we want? What’s the culture we want? And then make sure that we’re hiring and firing and mentoring and motivating to that.”
  — C.J. Dube [00:00 | repeated at 34:13]

• On why hiring for values matters:
  “If you just put a butt in a seat... six months later you’re looking again. So you just cost yourself money and time.”
  — C.J. [18:18]

• On learning from mistakes:
  “The best marketing I had was painting my window.”
  — C.J. [11:25]

• On the importance of wanting, not just knowing:
  “For me, the wanted is the most important...to get someone to learn new skills and new things, you have to want it and you have to be coachable.”
  — C.J. [25:03]

• On the implementer's role:
  “I’m there to be their teacher, their facilitator, their coach. I’m not there to tell them how to run their business or make their decisions for them.”
  — C.J. [42:58]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• C.J.’s EOS Origin Story & Early Career Anecdotes:
  [02:19] - [07:40]

• Hiring Philosophy & “Right Person, Right Seat”:
  [07:40] - [17:44]

• On Structure, GWC & People Development:
  [15:09] - [18:18]

• The Problem With Rushed Hires (“Butt in a seat”):
  [18:18] - [19:32]

• Panel Interviews, Deep Dives, Reference Checks:
  [20:19] - [22:36]

• Avoiding Purple Unicorns & Smart Accountability Chart Design:
  [23:25] - [27:00]

• When to Add Functions & The Critical Role of Middle Management:
  [28:23] - [32:00]

• Intentional Culture vs. Command-and-Control:
  [31:33] - [36:10]

• Coaching Through Hard Conversations & Letting People Go:
  [45:42] - [47:07]

• The Implementer's Relationship With Clients:
  [48:06] - [50:16]

Final Thoughts & Takeaways

• Build your company with intention—values, structure, and culture do not happen by accident.
• Hire for value compatibility and coachability; skills can be taught, desire and alignment cannot.
• Invest in your managers—they are critical for healthy scaling.
• EOS tools work not just in business but also in nonprofits, churches, and other sectors.
• Approach tough conversations with compassion and directness; honesty done right is a gift.

Connect with C.J. Dube

• Website: cjdube.com
• Contact: Email found on site

Closing Note:
This episode provides a clear, practical roadmap for leaders determined to build not just profitable, but meaningfully healthy organizations. C.J.’s candid, seasoned expertise challenges listeners to approach hiring and management as a deliberate extension of company values and long-term vision.