Podcast Summary: Confessions of an Implementer – Navigating Ego and Growth in Leadership with Mike Gruley

Date: January 8, 2025
Host: Ryan Hogan
Guest: Mike Gruley, Certified EOS Implementer

Episode Overview

In this rich, candid conversation, host Ryan Hogan sits down with serial entrepreneur and EOS implementer Mike Gruley to explore the nuances of leadership, partnership, and personal growth in business. Drawing from Mike’s extensive experience building and selling companies—one scaling to a national top-25 spot—the episode dives deep into lessons learned about partnership alignment, company culture, the evolution of leadership mindset, and the complex role ego plays in entrepreneurial success.

Key Themes:

• The importance of values and vision in business partnerships
• Navigating loneliness and vulnerability as a leader
• Lessons learned from failure and industry misalignment
• The balance between ego, humility, and growth
• How EOS is more about people than process

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Lessons in Entrepreneurship & Partnerships

• Background: Mike grew up in a family business, which shaped his entrepreneurial DNA. (03:19)
  • “My dad had a business and we worked in the business. And so I always feel like I had this front row seat to the rigors of someone owning a business…all the ups and downs.” – Mike (03:27)
• First Business: Out of college, he started a company with partners. Despite business success, the misalignment in core values led to his exit after 2.5 years. (06:20)
  • “It was just cultural things. It was core value issues…They just felt they ran a business differently than I would ever dream of running it.” – Mike (06:27)

2. The Two Pillars of Strong Partnerships: Values and Vision

• Assessment of Alignment: Mike emphasizes asking two key questions before entering partnerships: Do we have shared core values? Do we want the same thing from the business? (07:29)

  • “First of all, yes, there has to be a similar value system… once you get a good match on that, it’s probably unlikely to change…” – Mike (08:07)
  • “The second part is a little trickier… it involves what you want from the business...I think very often partners, especially younger people, they don’t think of that in advance.” – Mike (08:40)

• Inevitability of Change: Even with aligned plans, life circumstances can require renegotiation. (10:36)

  • “Even when we do plan, life has a way of planning for us sometimes. And so again, I think that’s where the values come back into play.” – Mike (10:37)

3. Contracts: For When Things Get Bumpy

• On Legal Agreements: Contracts should protect both parties for unforeseen events, reflecting mutual respect rather than mistrust. (12:25)
  • “If we have really matching value systems, then the contract… is going to be something that you and I both share the same value system for.” – Mike (12:32)
  • “I've always worried about sometimes when people say, ‘Well, I don't do contracts, I'm a handshake guy.’ Sometimes I worry more about that because they don’t want to be bound to anything at all.” – Mike (12:50)

4. Weighing Expertise vs. Values in Hiring and Partnership

• Overvaluing Performance: Ryan notes business often overemphasizes expertise and undervalues core values.
• Understanding Values: Mike prefers colleagues he “loves and cares for” over purely talented people. (14:57)
  • “I would rather have people that I really love and care for, that I work with, than have a bunch of talented people. Because you can always get better, you can always learn more, you can always excel.” – Mike (15:11)
• How to Assess Values: It’s akin to dating before marriage; deep understanding takes both time and exposure across contexts. (16:00)
  • “How long would you date someone before you decided to marry them?... It is very much like a marriage, and there’s no perfect marriage and there’s no perfect partnership or business.” – Mike (15:36)

5. Life as a Solopreneur vs. Partnered Entrepreneur

• Solo Journey: After leaving his partnership, Mike ran his next (ultimately highly successful) company alone. This simplified decision-making but also brought loneliness. (16:47)

  • “When I was on my own, yeah, sure, that part was easy because I’m going to try to take the company where I would like it to go...” – Mike (16:54)

• Coping with Loneliness: Found support through external entrepreneur groups—a vital substitute for internal partners. (18:39)

  • “It is like a 12 step program. It’s a lonely place… people that have never run a business just don’t understand how difficult it can be.” – Mike (19:30)

6. Support Systems and Peer Groups

• Vistage Shoutout: Both Mike and Ryan found camaraderie and sanity checks in Vistage and informal entrepreneurial circles. (21:27–22:14)
  • “It’s empathy as opposed to sympathy. Your friends and neighbors and your relatives give you sympathy... But when you sit down with your entrepreneur buddies...they know that pain.” – Mike (22:21)

7. Biggest Mistake: Ignoring Industry Values Misfit

• Industry Fit: Mike’s most costly mistake was not moving on from an industry that clashed with his values, even though the company was financially successful. (24:05)
  • “I was in a business that the industry did not fit my core values...we were always struggling to build our own value system inside of a system that we were oddballs.” – Mike (24:23)
  • “You have to love the business that you’re in. You have to love the customers you work with, and you have to love the people you work with.” – Mike (24:45)
• Competitive Advantage/Cultural Outlier: Maintaining core values set his team apart—helping attract and repel the right people, though it made growth more difficult. (26:21–28:14)

8. Leadership Mindset: Military Lessons & Emotional Evolution

• Ryan’s Military Influence: Developed a leadership style by compiling lessons—many about what not to do—learned from military officers, as well as respect for the Navy’s evolving leadership and training systems. (29:54)
  • “When I was enlisted...I was taking notes on all the things not to do...what’s really kind of come to head over the last five to 10 years is the things that the Navy at least has done incredibly well…” – Ryan (29:54)
• Changing Leadership Culture: Both agree that old command-and-control styles no longer serve the modern leader in any sector. (32:27–33:18)

9. The Human Side of EOS: It’s Mostly About People

• Not Just Process: EOS’s lasting impact comes from focusing on team and communication health, not just structure. (34:31)
  • “I really think that it’s not just a business improvement system. I think it’s a people and team improvement business. We deal more—70% of what we do, if not more, is really working with people, making them healthier, making them communicate better…” – Mike (34:59)

10. Ego: The Good, The Bad, and The Growthful

• Good vs. Bad Ego: Ego gets a bad rap, but some is necessary for confidence—as long as it doesn't close one off from growth.

  • “Our ego is this thing that protects us all the time...it can keep us from growing...there’s a good ego...maybe a mild sense of confidence.” – Mike (36:46)
  • “If you had no confidence, we’d all walk around like Eeyore...why try?” – Mike (38:13)

• Balancing Humility and Confidence: The healthiest leaders display both; too much ego becomes invisible to the possessor and detrimental to the team. (40:38)

  • “I think it’s once [ego] starts to shut other people down...” – Ryan (40:39)
  • “If you really are arrogant and full of ego, you’re probably not even going to listen to it when other people tell you, this is the sad part.” – Mike (41:09)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Values in Partnerships:
  “If you and I decided to go into business together, I'd want to make sure that you and I really share the same core value system.” – Mike (08:07)

• On Support Systems:
  “I really think entrepreneurs hang out together because it is like a 12 step program. It’s a lonely place.” – Mike (19:30)

• On Changing Industries:
  “I was in a business that the industry did not fit my core values...I should have had the courage as an entrepreneur to find another business.” – Mike (24:23)

• On Loving Your Team:
  “You have to love the business that you’re in. You have to love the customers you work with, and you have to love the people you work with.” – Mike (24:45)

• On Ego:
  “Our ego is this thing that protects us all the time...It can keep us from growing.” – Mike (36:46)

Key Timestamps (MM:SS)

• 03:19 – Mike’s entrepreneurial upbringing and early partnership
• 07:29 – The two keys to partnership: values and vision alignment
• 12:25 – Contracts and the role of shared values vs. legal details
• 14:57 – How to assess core values in partners or hires
• 16:47 – Running a business solo vs. with partners
• 18:39 – Entrepreneurial loneliness and peer support
• 24:05 – Mike’s biggest mistake: industry values misfit
• 29:54 – How military lessons shaped Ryan’s leadership
• 34:31 – Why EOS is most transformative for people and culture
• 36:46 – The good and bad sides of ego in leadership
• 40:38 – Where ego becomes a liability

About Mike Gruley & His Practice

• Ideal Clients: Any organization with people, especially those who care about culture, vulnerability, and team health over just technical skills or industry.
• Contact:
  • eosworldwide.com/mike-gruley
  • Phone: 248-761-4401 (43:10)

Conclusion

This episode offers a masterclass in the “soft skills” of entrepreneurship—why values come before vision, why leadership is about people not product, and how a healthy ego is essential but dangerous in excess. Mike and Ryan’s practical wisdom and generous humility make this a must-listen for anyone building (or rebuilding) a business.

For more on EOS or to connect with Mike, visit EOS Worldwide or call 248-761-4401.