Confessions of an Implementer | S2E23

Kind Leadership: The Power of Honest Feedback with Matt Hanson

Podcast Date: November 19, 2025
Host: Ryan Hogan
Guest: Matt Hanson

Episode Overview

In this episode, Ryan Hogan sits down with Matt Hanson, seasoned engineering leader and EOS Implementer, to discuss "kind leadership"—the distinction between being nice and truly kind through honest feedback. Matt shares stories from his careers in automotive and aerospace, insights from his transition into EOS implementation, and the role of personal core values in leadership. Expect a candid conversation about failing forward, team dynamics, and leadership grounded in humility, perseverance, and a genuine desire to help others.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Distinction Between Nice and Kind

• Main Theme: Setting the tone for open and honest feedback in teams.
  • Matt stresses the necessity of candor in leadership and facilitation.
  • Being kind sometimes means delivering tough feedback for someone else’s benefit, not just being superficially nice.
    • Quote: “We want to be nice to people and we conflate that with being kind. And sometimes being kind is actually saying the hard thing because we're saying it for the other person's benefit.” — Matt Hanson [00:00, 31:48]
  • He borrows this concept from another implementer, using it to encourage session participants to move past politeness and engage in genuine dialogue.

2. Matt’s Path: Engineering to EOS Implementer

• Engineering Roots & Career Journey

  • Started as a biochemistry major, switched to engineering after poor performance and lack of passion.
  • Created his own “leadership rotation” by deliberately moving through engineering, business development, and operations to be prepared for executive leadership.
  • Worked in highly specialized engineering environments (e.g., earthquake simulators, rivetless airplanes at Goodrich) and eventually got into aerospace.

• Transferable Skills from Engineering

  • Engineering taught Matt a lifelong approach to structured problem-solving.
    • Quote: “All your degree really does is it tells you how to solve problems and how to think... that's the one lesson that I've taken from engineering that I still carry with me all these years later.” — Matt Hanson [05:22]

• Relatable Career Stories

  • Matt humorously recounts immature college years and finding the right level of responsibility later in life.
    • Quote: “My first couple years in college... I learned a lot on how much alcohol my body could absorb.” — Matt Hanson [06:35]

3. Leadership Through Problem-Solving & Perseverance

• Taking on Hard Problems

  • Has a reputation for taking on big, difficult challenges, often requiring “glacial perseverance.”
    • Quote: “I call it glacial perseverance, right? Glaciers will just grind on things until they make these huge valleys... I’ll just keep working it and working it and working it, and eventually we'll solve it.” — Matt Hanson [11:23]

• Motivating and Managing Teams

  • Guide teams primarily by listening, asking questions, and creating space for others to lead.
  • Values “enjoyment through learning” and “growth through hard challenges.”
  • Admits that sometimes people will get frustrated by his persistence, but openness and honesty are more important than universal popularity.

• Learning from Mistakes

  • Leaders often push in the wrong direction; Matt shares how he took responsibility after chasing an ill-suited business opportunity—ultimately solving it with his team through hard work and transparency.
    • Quote: “Giant mistake. Should have pushed back. It was ugly because it wasn’t our sweet spot... but it was one of those situations where it started where I made a mistake not pushing back in the first place, saying, we need to talk about this. And that was my failure.” — Matt Hanson [15:48]

4. Core Values: Defining and Living Them

• Developing Personal Core Values

  • Came into focus after working with an executive coach in 2019 and years of reflection.
  • Cites three: enjoyment through learning, growth through hard challenges, and service through mentorship.
  • Compares refining his values to the EOS process of continually revisiting and refining core company values.
    • Quote: “That’s the process I went through for five years to finally get down to the three core values that I think and the way I write them and think about them, that really matter to me and make sense.” — Matt Hanson [24:58]

• On the Number of Core Values

  • Advocates for “less is more”—clarity and resonance matter more than quantity.
    • Quote: "The right number is what resonates for those people. I do believe less is more." — Matt Hanson [28:14]

5. Honest Feedback & Team Health in EOS Implementation

• Fostering Open Feedback in Teams

  • Shares strategies for helping teams move past fear of confrontation, using the Nice vs. Kind framework to open honest conversations.
  • The most challenging and transformative moments in EOS implementation come when teams confront real, long-unspoken issues.
    • Quote: "That's the hardest part. Have the courage to step into that space and try to talk about the thing that nobody's wanted to talk about for a long time... it's like a game changer." — Matt Hanson [34:02]

• Critical Feedback as Growth

  • Matt acknowledges the human fear of giving honest feedback; he’s learned to model and encourage it for real organizational health.
  • The breakthrough in implementation usually happens when teams realize the room is safe for difficult conversations and real issues get tackled head-on.
    • Quote: “That’s generally it... when you have that breakthrough moment where everyone sees, ‘oh, this is a safe space, we are actually solving issues.’” — Matt Hanson [35:05]

6. Measuring and Managing People as Businesses Grow

• Navigating Right Person/Right Seat Dilemmas

  • Stresses using objective data and EOS tools like the People Analyzer to facilitate tough team decisions.
  • Importance of humility as an outside facilitator—Matt doesn’t pretend to know an organization better than its leaders but prompts them to address inconvenient truths.

• Team Dynamics at Different Growth Stages

  • Teams must evolve as companies grow; roles and people that fit at one stage may not at the next. Matt coaches organizations to measure performance, revisit the vision, and stay open to change.

7. Ideal Clients & Approach

• Ideal Client Profile
  • While agnostic, has a soft spot for organizations that “make things” due to his engineering and hands-on background.
  • Works nationally and enjoys on-site engagement but is comfortable with virtual delivery.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “We want to be nice to people and we conflate that with being kind. And sometimes being kind is actually saying the hard thing because we're saying it for the other person's benefit.” — Matt Hanson [00:00, 31:48]
• “All your degree really does is it tells you how to solve problems and how to think.” — Matt Hanson [05:22]
• “I call it glacial perseverance... I'll just keep working it and working it and working it, and eventually we'll solve it.” — Matt Hanson [11:23]
• “Giant mistake. Should have pushed back. It was ugly because it wasn’t our sweet spot... That was my failure.” — Matt Hanson [15:48]
• "The right number is what resonates for those people. I do believe less is more." — Matt Hanson [28:14]
• "That's the hardest part. Have the courage to step into that space and try to talk about the thing that nobody's wanted to talk about for a long time... it's like a game changer." — Matt Hanson [34:02]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Nice vs. Kind, Honest Feedback: [00:00–00:32, 31:48–33:24]
• Engineering Roots, Career Development: [01:04–08:08]
• Glacial Perseverance & Problem Solving: [10:25–12:42]
• Leadership, Team Dynamics & Mistakes: [13:46–19:39]
• Core Values, Personal Growth: [24:58–29:44]
• Honest Feedback & Team Health in Practice: [31:48–36:51]
• Right People, Right Seats & Growth Pains: [38:56–41:28]
• Client Profile & Legacy Mindset: [41:45–44:43]

Memorable Moments

• Matt’s phrase “glacial perseverance” becomes a running theme and a favorite of the host, who jokes about titling the episode after it.
• Honest stories about project failures, “blood on the floor,” and learning from mistakes, highlighting the value of humility in leadership.
• Matt describes the terror and value in asking friends and colleagues for real feedback: “You go ask somebody that you, you like and you know likes you, and you ask, what do you think of me? And you're scared to death they're going to say, you're the biggest asshole I've ever met.” [29:44]
• The “Nice vs. Kind” framework for feedback, which Matt now routinely uses to reset session expectations for honest dialogue.

Contact & Closing

• Contact Matt Hanson
  • Phone: 615-513-3892
  • Email: matthanson@eosworldwide.com

Matt concludes by encouraging openness, emphasizing impact and legacy over titles, and inviting listeners to connect if they want to bring kind, courageous leadership to their teams.

This summary aims to provide a structured, insightful recap of the episode’s key ideas and memorable quotes for listeners and non-listeners alike. For the full experience, tune into the episode wherever you get your podcasts.