Confessions of an Implementer

Episode: S2E24 | "Purpose Over Profit: Why People Leave Bosses Not Companies" with Curt Swindoll
Host: Ryan Hogan (Talent Harbor)
Guest: Curt Swindoll, EOS Implementer
Date: November 26, 2025

Overview

This episode centers on the foundational role of purpose, culture, and leadership in creating organizations people never want to leave. Ryan Hogan and Curt Swindoll discuss why employees typically leave bosses rather than companies, how nonprofits and for-profits alike can tap into a deeper sense of mission, and why core values must be more than words on a wall. Curt offers practical storytelling, hard-earned wisdom, and actionable advice on instilling love, meaning, and clear purpose throughout a company—while acknowledging the tension between vision and business reality.

Key Topics & Insights

1. Why People Leave Bosses, Not Companies

• Curt’s Opening Insight (00:00):
  "We know through study after study, people leave companies because of who they work for... So what does it look like to be not just a good leader, a strong leader, an experienced leader, a great leader?"
• Great leadership is about more than technical skill; it’s about inspiring people to stay by fostering genuine connection, trust, and shared purpose.

2. Curt Swindoll’s Path into Nonprofits and EOS

• Curt never set out to work in nonprofits, but found himself drawn by the complexity of issues they tackle and the passionate people they attract.

  “I care about the work of nonprofits. I think nonprofits are trying to solve some of the world’s hardest problems... I’m intrigued by those kinds of challenges.” (01:14)

• Curt founded a fundraising agency before EOS existed, always wanting to do organization development work.
• The nonprofit sector was not a “stepping stone”—eventually, Curt realized it was a calling.

3. Purpose Beyond Profit: Lessons From Nonprofits for Every Business

• Nonprofits take on challenges that are hard to monetize; they rely on passion and shared purpose.

  “How do you monetize curing the world of malaria?... There’s not a financial model... But I think there’s some really creative stuff going on in the world of impact investing.” (03:28)

• For-profits can benefit by asking “what’s your purpose, cause or passion?”—finding meaning that transcends earning a living.
• Curt shares a moving story of a homebuilder who connected deeply with the idea that “the home is a place of sanctuary and security where families find their story,” showing how powerful a clarified sense of purpose can be.

  “He started to cry. Like this touched him in such a deeply meaningful place... All of a sudden, it lit this fire in him.” (07:38)

4. Uncovering (and Articulating) Core Purpose

• Companies can operate for years successfully without an articulated core purpose—but may lose steam or miss attracting the best talent.

  “We’re just trying to tap into what you might call a superpower. And that is a transcendent reason for the work we do that attracts great talent and effort. When we do that, we are doing something money can’t buy.” (10:15)

• For-profit businesses can feel “zombie-like” if they lack this North Star, relying solely on market demand or legacy.

5. From Wall Art to Embedded Culture: Living Out Values

• Purpose and values shouldn’t be mere wall art or slogans—real meaning comes when they are evident in hiring, everyday decisions, conversations, and recognition.

  “When we reduce these things to wall art, right, it becomes a checkbox... Are we hiring people around these ideas? Are we emphasizing them in our conversations?” (25:45)

• “Companies should be just short of neurotic about these things”—values must infuse the entire culture, from onboarding to daily operations.

6. The Dance: Creating a High-Trust, High-Purpose Team

• Curt likens an aligned organization to a dance troupe: everyone moving in harmony, each trusting and responding to others, creating something “inimitable, unforgettable.”

  “When you see people working like dancers playing out a choreographed piece... It is a dance that creates something inimitable, unforgettable. I want my business to be like that.” (25:45)

7. Tough Decisions: Purpose as Compass for Hard Choices

• Reality check: Building a purpose-driven culture involves tough people decisions.

  “These dances don’t come without changing the dancers sometimes... EOS did a study: 90% of all business issues relate back to people... When you bring in this sense of transcendent purpose, it actually gives a reason for why we should have these conversations.” (33:33)

• The “core values cult” analogy: When everyone deeply shares the same values, it attracts or “spits out” those who don’t fit—by design, not by coercion.

  “Core values are like a magnet that either attract us or spit us out to the curb.” (36:59)

8. Purpose + Niche: A Practical Formula

• Curt’s exercise: Distill your business to two adjectives and a noun (“bespoke musical experiences”) and connect it with a “why.”

  “Those two things go together... It’s in bringing those two pieces together that we find what we call a ‘core focus’ in EOS.” (19:21)

• Example: Orville Redenbacher’s core is popcorn. Don’t bring candy ideas—bring popcorn ideas.

9. Repetition Is Key: How to Instill Purpose and Values

• “You repeat it over and over and over...” Until you see eye rolls, you haven’t said it enough.

  “Eos used to say, you have to repeat it seven times… Recent studies show you got to say it 70 times.” (42:17)

• Leaders set the tone—visionaries and integrators must model the values and ensure they drive decisions.

10. The Role of Love in Leadership & Business

• Curt argues businesses operate out of either love or fear; truly great organizations are rooted in love, abundance, and care for their people.

  “Everything we do, we do from either a place of love or fear... Am I making this decision out of scarcity or abundance?... The businesses I want to help create, the leaders I work with—may not be for everyone, but I really don’t care.” (51:12)

• Sometimes, even terminating someone “who is not a fit” is, paradoxically, a loving act.

11. Inclusion and Belonging

• Inclusion isn’t a buzzword; it’s a powerful feeling. Curt praises the statement “Every one of you belongs here,” noting the transformative effect it has on team morale.

  “You belong here. And there was just something like you felt like you were a part of everything...” (47:44)

12. Curt’s Focus and Approach as an EOS Implementer

• Curt’s client mix: Half nonprofits, half for-profits, typically in the $2–$50M revenue (but ranges widely).
• What matters is the curiosity, the love of people, and the work of seeing organizations “fit together” like a dance.

  “It’s not about the thing, it’s about the people I get to work with and the work I get to do.” (57:21)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Purpose:
  “Do I want to have a great job or do I want to have the best job I’ve ever had? Do I want to work for a nice boss or do I want to work for a guy, a gal? I’ll never leave.” (00:00, 62:42 – bookends of the episode)

• On What Work Should Feel Like:
  “How do we find a life that has a transcendent quality to it at work as well as at home?” (30:23)

• On Values as a Magnet:
  “Core values are like a magnet that either attract us or spit us out to the curb.” (36:59)

• On Love vs Fear in Leadership:
  “Everything we do, we do from either a place of love or fear… Am I making this decision from a place of scarcity or abundance? Am I making this decision from a place of anxiety or peace?” (51:12)

• On Communication:
  “We have to talk about people caught in the act of doing something great. We got to talk about what they look like and what they don’t look like. These values, this sense of focus that we have in common—and we should be hiring with those things in mind.” (39:28)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–01:14: Introduction—Why people leave bosses, not companies
• 01:14–03:28: Curt’s journey into nonprofits; the pull of meaningful work
• 03:28–07:37: Funding models, impact investing, and the emotional power of purpose
• 07:38–10:15: Homebuilder story; the importance of purpose for for-profits
• 19:21–23:53: Balancing purpose and business reality, connecting "why" with "what"
• 25:45–28:55: Beyond wall art—how values become real
• 33:33–36:59: Tough decisions: people, culture, and the necessity of hard calls
• 36:59–39:28: The “cult” analogy—when culture is so strong it attracts or repels
• 41:34–43:41: Repetition and communication—embedding purpose throughout the org
• 47:44–48:34: Inclusion and the effect of belonging
• 51:12–56:53: Love vs. fear; how emotions shape organizations
• 57:21–60:11: Curt’s focus as an EOS implementer; what lights him up
• 62:42–end: Final reflections—great leadership, why people stay, how to build incredible teams

Conclusion

Curt and Ryan’s dialogue is a must-listen for founders, leaders, and anyone striving to build a workplace that’s more than a job. The takeaways: purpose isn’t window dressing; it’s the engine that powers the best companies and the best teams. Love belongs at work—not as sentimentality, but as courageous, practical leadership that touches how decisions are made, how people are treated, and why people stay. If you want to have the best job and build the sort of company people never want to leave, start with purpose and never stop communicating (and living) it.

Curt Swindoll can be reached via LinkedIn (@curtswindoll), by email (curt.swindoll@eosworldwide.com), or through the EOS Implementer directory at eosworldwide.com.