S2E54 | 80% of Your Biggest Business Problems Come Down to One Thing with Julie Markee

Summary

Confessions of an Implementer

Episode: S2E54 | “80% of Your Biggest Business Problems Come Down to One Thing” with Julie Markee

Date: June 11, 2026
Host: Ryan Hogan
Guest: Julie Markee, EOS Implementer

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Ryan Hogan interviews Julie Markee, an EOS Implementer with a distinctive background in chemical engineering, manufacturing, consulting, and leadership coaching. Julie deconstructs how her problem-solving mindset, structured engineering perspective, and deep understanding of human dynamics help businesses address their real issues—80% of which, she argues, come down to people. The discussion flows from Julie’s entrepreneurial beginnings to actionable insights for creating healthy leadership teams and getting to the root cause of organizational hurdles through EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System).

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Julie’s Path: From Engineering to EOS Implementer

• Non-linear journey to engineering (01:11): Julie shares her meandering educational path, influenced by a chance comment from her dentist and bolstered by mentorship from a calculus teacher.
• Early entrepreneurship (04:11): Started her first business at age 12, running swim classes in her backyard and then scaling by using neighborhood pools.
• Lack of early confidence (06:04): Admits not feeling ready to start a real business right after college, which now fuels her passion to support young women entrepreneurs.

2. The Engineering Mindset for Problem-Solving

• Seeking the hardest challenges (07:21): Julie owns her drive to take the challenging path—"I have to say, there’s times in my life where I’m like, couldn’t I just take the easy path for once? But that’s just not who I am."
• From process engineering to sales (08:09–11:11): Progression from technical operations (Frito Lay, Ocean Spray) to sales in specialty manufacturing; highlights that sales is "just another process" for her.

3. Leadership Lessons: From Operations to Mentoring

• Early management struggles (12:21): Julie recounts lacking confidence and people skills as a new manager, emphasizing the value of open, heart-driven leadership:

  “I wasn't leading with my heart. It took me a long time to get to the point where I could lead with my heart.” (13:10)

4. Transition to Entrepreneurship & EOS

• The turning point (14:36): A rescinded job offer leads Julie to start her business — a move her family saw as inevitable.
• Discovering EOS (17:48): After years consulting broken companies, she finds EOS via a Vistage group, attracted to the chance to help businesses before they’re in crisis.

5. Structured Thinking Meets Human Dynamics in the Session Room

• Applying engineering to teams (19:03): Julie’s structured problem-solving translates into her session facilitation—she reads body language, probes what’s unsaid, adapts her communication style, and seeks to truly hear each leadership team member.
• Human dynamics as the starting point (21:51):

  “It’s always the leadership team and getting them healthy. That’s… the first nut you have to crack.”

• Tailoring communication for each exec (21:51–23:42): Observing details from speech patterns to body language, making sure quieter or more process-oriented team members are heard.

6. The Core of Business Problems: People, Not Processes

• What is a “healthy” leadership team? (24:41)
  • Open, honest communication—"say what needs to be said when it needs to be said, in as few words as possible."
  • Psychological safety: members can voice disagreement without fear.
  • Growth is linked to team health:

    “You get that team healthy, the organization takes off.”

• Tension between functions (sales, ops, finance) (26:14): Julie describes how blaming and accusation are replaced with fact-finding and root cause analysis.

7. Root Cause Analysis: Digging into Issues

• Notable Quote:

  “You have to observe it… Our tendency when we get to IDS-ing is to jump into discuss. Someone says, this is the issue. Is that really the issue?” (36:42)

• Five Whys Technique (27:23–29:21, 36:21–39:54):

  • Dig past superficial answers by asking “why?” repeatedly.
  • True root cause is often a people issue, not a process.
  • Julie illustrates this with a client who kept missing revenue targets—after refusing to let them “waste her ink” on the same old answer, she forced the group to drill down, assign owners to each sub-issue, and take real action.

Memorable Moment (39:10)

Julie repeats the owner’s feedback:

“Julie, way to tear us down and then build us back up again.”

8. Facilitating Difficult People Issues

• In-room vs. offline conflict (31:08):

  “Will I let somebody be attacked in the room? No, absolutely not… I think it depends on the situation. When do I push and when do I pull back?”

• Making the invisible visible (34:14): She observes subtle signals like body orientation or redness in the chest to detect unspoken conflict:

  “If someone doesn’t want to hear what I have to say, they will rotate away from that person.” (35:53)

9. Clarity Breaks: Preparation & Leadership Growth

• On showing up ready (46:22):

  “The more clarity breaks you take, the faster you’re going to solve your issues.”

• Definition and approach (49:22):
  • Time out of day-to-day operations for deep, strategic thinking—often in nature or away from distractions.
  • There’s no single “right way,” but regular reflection is essential.

10. Red Flags & Healthy Habits for Leadership Teams

• Signs of a people issue:
  • Hesitation, dread, or discomfort before sessions often signals interpersonal conflict (‘ghosts in the room’) (48:22–48:29).
• Integrators/Visionaries as allies:
  • Regularly check in before sessions—“Is there something going on with the team I need to know?”

11. Who Julie Works Best With

• Ideal client attributes (53:43):
  1. Genuinely care about employees
  2. Desire to do something different
  3. Willingness to recognize they may be part of the problem

---

Notable Quotes & Moments With Timestamps

• On switching to engineering:

  “Don’t put limitations on yourself.” (01:11, Julie recounts the advice that changed her academic trajectory)

• On early entrepreneurship:

  “I taught lots and lots of pools all over the Yakima Valley, bringing kids in. And that was just how I kind of grew my business.” (04:11)

• On healthy teams:

  “Say what needs to be said when it needs to be said, in as few words as possible.” (24:41)

• On getting to root cause:

  “If you’re starting to feel physically uncomfortable, you’re probably getting close to the root.” (36:21)

• On people problems being central:

  “About 80% of the time, it’s a people issue—and those people issues are hard.” (43:16)

• On clarity breaks:

  “If you’re not thinking about the business, who is?” (47:29)

---

Important Segments & Timestamps

| Segment | Topic | Start Time | |-----------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------|------------| | Julie’s educational journey | From Yakima to UW, finding her field | 01:11 | | Early entrepreneurship | Running backyard swim classes | 04:11 | | Confidence as a young leader | Struggles in early management | 12:21 | | Breaking into consulting/EOS | How a job loss led to entrepreneurship | 14:36 | | Engineering mindset in EOS | Applying structured thinking to human dynamics | 19:03 | | Root cause problem solving | Five whys, digging past surface symptoms | 27:23 | | Healthy teams & open dialogue | Defining and fostering healthy exec teams | 24:41 | | Handling people issues | When and how to address interpersonal conflict | 31:08 | | Body language insights | Detecting “ghosts in the room” | 35:53 | | Clarity breaks, reflection | How/why leaders must reflect away from work | 46:22 | | What makes an ideal client | Julie’s criteria for working relationships | 53:43 |

---

Takeaways for Listeners

• Root Problems Are Usually People: Most big, persistent business challenges stem from interpersonal dynamics, not failing processes or strategies.
• Structured, Patient Analysis: Adapt engineering ‘root cause’ thinking to organizations by continuously probing, observing, and challenging assumptions—particularly around people issues.
• Health Precedes Growth: A leadership team’s psychological health and the ability to speak frankly determines how fast (and how well) a company will grow.
• Preparation Is Power: Regular, intentional reflection (clarity breaks) sharply improves leadership effectiveness.
• Communication Tools Matter: Modify style, pace, and engagement for every leader in the room to unlock the group’s collective wisdom.
• Facilitation Is Art: Knowing when to gently push and when to create space, especially around hard people topics, is crucial for implementation success.

---

Connect with Julie Markee

• Website: keyprocessinnovations.com
• EOS Worldwide Microsite: Available via her main site
• LinkedIn: Search for Julie Markee / Key Process Innovations
• Blog Highlight: “Cooped Up Thoughts”—Leadership analogies from chicken-raising

---

Final Notable Moment

Ryan:
"That's incredible. Julie, I think you've got a million dollar blog post right now... just the things, just the like behaviors, the... subtle repositionings to facial expressions... That's a lot of things that you're looking for all at the same time, which is super helpful." (35:53)

---

This episode offers a goldmine for leaders trying to move the needle—not by fixing processes alone, but by bravely addressing the real, human root of business challenges.

Transcript

[Julie]

The way that my brain looks at a problem is very, very structured. Oftentimes when I'm in the session room, from that standpoint, I'm looking at what's not being said, what needs to be said. Why would somebody not want to say something like really kind of looking at everything that's going on and I'm watching body language.

[Ryan Hogan]

Welcome to Confessions An Implementer. I'm your host, Ryan Hogan. We share unique stories of EOS implementers and the companies they've transformed to give you a rare glimpse into the successes and challenges of the system in action. Let's jump in.

[Ryan]

There is a ton of topics that I can't wait to cover today. 1. Julie, thanks so much for taking the time to join us this morning. This afternoon, I guess, for the East Coasters. What? There was something. I was looking at your profile and I had no idea, but you're. You're UW alumni.

[Julie]

I am, yeah. Go Huskies. Like, you know, go buy Huskies.

[Ryan]

That's awesome. Did you grow up in. In Seattle or was that just like you were set on that?

[Julie]

No, no, my. My journey to get to UW was not a straight one at all. I actually started out at Occidental College down in LA playing basketball. And I left Oxdale after a year for a less than stellar reason. We don't need to get into that. Took some time off of school and went back. This is. So I went back into the Yakima Valley Community College, which is. I grew up in Yakima and I was trying to figure out my major and I went through them all. I'd gone through them all. My dad's kind of rolling his eyes at the whole thing. And I went and had my. Went to the dentist. And the dentist said, hey, Jul, have you ever thought about engineering? And I'm like, oh yeah, no, I'm not smart enough for that. And he said, well, don't put limitations on yourself. And I was like, huh? So I went home and I said to my dad, what about engineering? I don't understand that electrical stuff. Do they have chemical engineers? And he's like, yeah. I'm like, yeah, that's what I'm gonna be. And my father was like, uh, huh, sure. So I switched my major and I had to switch for math calculus for business majors to calculus for engineering science majors. And halfway through the year, so we went from differentiation to integration. Please people, don't overwhelm yourself with all calculus talk. And then I totally forgot it. So they said, hey, you need to go back and retake integration. And I said, no, I don't want to do that. So I went back, I found my AP calculus teacher and I said, Mr. Cring, will you tutor me? I promise this time I will pay attention. So he tutored me, got me through, and then I transferred to University of Washington, went there for a year, applied to the chemical engineering school and was ultimately accepted. And so I got a degree in chemical engineering.

[Ryan]

That's what we're, we're, we're going to spend a little time in this area because it's fascinating. Now we'll skip the part of why you left the first college because it sounds like we found our first off limits, off limits one, not interesting. So I, I had no idea the, the basketball. Did you, Were you playing sports your, your whole life?

[Julie]

Yes, yes. I actually started swimming when I was competitive swimming when I was 8 or 9 and swam all the way through, pretty much through almost all of high school. But I kind of got bored and took a year off and then I went back. But my, I came from a family of basketball players. My father played at Davidson College, played with some people that some coaches you would probably know. And so basketball's always been there. My sister right above me, she's taller than I am, so she played and so did my little sister. So just basketball has always been kind of the thing that the family, that the family was involved in.

[Ryan]

Someone told me that you may have started a company around some of the swimming stuff when you were very young.

[Julie]

Yes, when I was 12, I started my first business. I was a private swimming instructor and my parents had a pool in the backyard. And so I actually, I brought kids into the, into my, into the backyard. And I started at 9am and I usually finish between 12:31 every 30 minutes. Turning kids over at four to five kids per class. That's a lot of kids. Two week programs throughout the summer. And that was great until mom and dad moved and we didn't have a house with a pool anymore. So I know I'm very fortunate to have that. Please don't hear me say that. But they moved and then I was like, oh my gosh, how am I going to teach honey lessons? So what I did was I went and found other pools in the Yakima Valley, private pools. And I said, hey, I will teach your kids for free if you will let me bring kids into your pool. And so I had, I taught lots and lots of pools all over the Yakima Valley, bringing kids in. And that was just how I kind of grew my Business. And I did that until I was probably 21 or 22, and then I finally had to hang my bathing suit up for a business suit right before I graduated from college. Got it.

[Ryan]

So something that's really interesting about what you. A lot of entrepreneurs and a lot of people that are building businesses, they got bit by the bug earlier in life for one reason or another. It started very early on for them. You and I have actually pretty similar stories of like, where we were bit very early on in life with the entrepreneurial bug. But then we took. I didn't take a corporate path, but it's the military path, which basically is corporate. Like, you took a different path. So what? I guess. Why did you hang up the bathing suit for business suit.

[Julie]

That's interesting, Ryan. I don't know if I've ever really contemplated that. I think if I had to be completely honest, I would say at that age, when I graduated from college, I don't think I had enough confidence in myself to start my own business. And I. It took me a while to get there to where I had enough confidence that I could do that. And that's one of my passions, is helping these young, especially young women give them that confidence and that and that support so they can start their businesses earlier and be successful. So that's one of my passions in life.

[Ryan]

I love that. I didn't realize how similar our path was in certain respects and probably a lot of the same thoughts that were going through our head early on in life. Okay, one quick question on the engineering, and then we're going to go through all of it. Chemical engineering is not an easy degree. And when you were like looking at degrees and your dad was like, hey, you gotta pick something, and you've kind of jumped around a little bit, you picked the hardest one. And like, is that, like, innate in you? Is that who you are? Of like, it doesn't matter what it is. I'm gonna pick the hardest thing and prove to myself that I can accomplish that.

[Julie]

I would say, yeah, if you go back to Scott Peck's book the Road Less Traveled, right. Life is difficult. And that's. That's the first paragraph of the book. And I think it's just inherent in me to not take the easy way and to find the harder way. And I have to say, there's times in my life where I'm like, couldn't I just take the easy path for once? But that's just not who I am. So I think it's inherent in me is that ability, is that Drive to get better. And I know you. You only get better when you're pushing yourself and pushing yourself outside of your limits.

[Ryan]

All right, now. Now we'll get into the. The journey just a little bit, because you didn't. You didn't just go work for, like, little companies with your engineering degree like you. You went straight to corporate at that point and started with some big names. What, what kind of jobs, what kind of things were you doing?

[Julie]

I started out at Frito Lay, and I was a process engineer. So just. Just to be clear, so chemical engineering, you have two paths. You can go make chemists, you know, chemicals, or you can go be a process engineer. And so I went the process engineer route, which is basically what's the fast. What are. What's the fastest way to get to point A, to point B? What are the obstacles and how you get them out? Okay, so that's. That is my mindset. That's what I was trained to do. Well, I was trained to think, really was what I. That's what you do in engineering school. They just teach you how to think and think in a very structured way. So I went to work for Frito Lay as a process engineer. And I remember about a year into working for them, and I'm managing their wastewater treatment plant. So this is all their, you know, after sanitation and all that stuff. I'm standing outside in Vancouver, Washington. It's pouring down rain and about an inch and a half of rain in my steel toed boots that I'm like, no one told me in engineering school that this is what I would be doing. That was not the fun part of that at all. But I also got to work on some amazing projects. And this was a long time ago, but the Doritos used to have points on them, and then they rounded them and they made them thinner. I worked on the technology for the first plant and the whole Frito, all the Frito Lay plants to install that technology and bring that line, that particular production line up and running. So I did that. Super cool projects like that, like things that most young engineers don't get to do. Um, but Frito just throws those engineers in and. And just sinks, sink or swim. So pretty fun.

[Ryan]

And when you say process engineering, is this. Does it have. Because you did. You did talk a little bit about the sanitation treatment is. When you think about process engineering or the roles that you were put in, is it literally just like optimizing the process and it doesn't have to be chemical related? Or is it like there was always some Sort of like chemical stuff as a part of it.

[Julie]

No, no, no. I mean, I was in food manufacturing. So I worked for Frito Lay work for Ocean Spray Cranberries. And then I got into metal casting. So it's all about just any process. And so I came out of manufacturing. So it's like, hey, you know, at Ocean Spray, this line has lots of breakage on it. Go fix it. Like, what's the problem? Go fix it. And, and trying to, just to remove variability out of the process so it's much more efficient. So it doesn't matter. The process is not the actual industry or plant they work in. Doesn't matter. It's the same methodology on trying to solve the issues.

[Ryan]

Got it. And then I've seen this a few times where like starting off in the engineering and some of these other areas, the product side of business, and then eventually for some reason getting pulled into like the sales side of the process. What looks like after Ocean Spray, you made a switch.

[Julie]

Yeah, yeah, I switched. I went from. I left Ocean Spray as a process engineer and I was a, I was also an operations manager there. And I'm running the cranberry sauce department. And then I was ready for a change. And so there was a listing on monster.com. i don't even know if Monster is around anymore. I have no idea. And I'm not talking about Monster drink here, just monster.com. like you go get jobs like indeed, probably now. And they were, they were looking for somebody with sales experience that could sell colloidal silica into the investment casting industry. And I'm like, well, I don't meet any of those. So I'm going to apply. And so they hired me. Colloidal silica is a high temperature glue. Investment casting is a process for making high precision metal cast parts. I know all that now. And then they, and then Nauco was kind enough to teach. They take engineers, they teach them how to sell. And so sales is just another process. You just follow the process. And so that was how I got in from, from manufacturing into sales.

[Ryan]

Got it. And then you talked a little bit about operations management. Did you have a team that was working for you throughout that process?

[Julie]

I did, yeah. I had a team. We were three. Three shift operations. Two. Two shifts of operations and one shift of sanitation. And when I look back on that time, I could have been a much better manager. I mean, I just didn't. I was young, I didn't have a lot of experience. I didn't have a lot of training. And I think that's one of the things that I, that I love about. Not that we've talked about EOS yet, but part of that is teaching people how to be better leaders and managers because oftentimes we're not taught how to do that. And I know I could have done better, especially what I know now.

[Ryan]

What if you don't mind, if this is a path we can go down, like, what are some things that you reflect on early on with some of the ways that you manage that, the knowledge that you have now, you're like, what? Like, I wish I would have done this or this and that differently.

[Julie]

I think it was just, I think the. At the core was I didn't have a lot of confidence again in myself. And so when I ran into people issues, instead of really connecting with them and hearing them and helping solve the issues together, I was in that. Well, you know, I've got this position. It was like the imposter syndrome. And I wasn't leading with my heart. And it took me a long time to get to the point where I can lead with my heart. And so some of those conversations were much more adversarial than they needed to be. If I had just taken aback and just heard them and had just knowing that eventually we would come to the right solution.

[Ryan]

Got it, got it, got it. And we are, we're quickly getting to the EOS part of this. Because I think what's really interesting is like one the, You've, you've kind of been in all, all of the different, we'll call them core function areas, but you've kind of been in most, all of the core function areas. And I'm sure you had some P and L responsibilities. There's probably a little bit of a flavor of the finance as well. Like when, when did you start thinking about, like, hey, I, I've learned so much over the years. I've kind of done all of the things inside of corporations now. I think I can translate that into. Cause I think it started off as kind of your, your own business first and some consulting and then. And eventually we get to eos. What did that, what did that switch look like for you?

[Julie]

Well, it wasn't planned. So when I was out in Wisconsin, that's where I met my husband. That's where Ocean Spray was. And we got married. And I said, hey, I won't be living here forever. He calls it the Washington clause and said he didn't read the fine print. So it was time for us to move back to, to Washington. And I Got. I had a job offer from a company that was in the same industry that I had been in. And then we're coming across the country and I get an email from the owner of the company and said, oh, we've decided to go in a different direction. We're going to rescind that offer. So after a few choice words, I kind of looked at my husband. I'm like, well, this little party is over. Somebody needs to go find a job. So he went and found a job, and we did what all responsible people would do in a situation like this, and we went on a cruise. And so it was Alaskan cruise with my family. And, you know, I don't have a job. He's got some crappy job. He's gonna start when we come back. And I took a nap and I woke up and I said, I'm gonna start my business. And I said, if I'm ever gonna do it, this is the time. And I remember going to dinner on the. On the ship and I made this announcement to the family. I know in retrospect, I probably should have told my husband before I told the rest of my family, but he has forgiven me since then. But my mother's response was, well, of course you are, honey. Entrepreneurial ship is in the family. Like, it was just, like it was just this natural progression that, that I would do that. So I have, I have three sisters. Two of them are own. Their own companies or practices. And so. And my father was in private practice as a physician, so very much in the. In there. So that was kind of how I made that shift. But I didn't know what I was doing. I started out as a manufacturer's rep, and I sucked at it. I did. It was terrible because I'd be like, hey, here's what I have. What do you want to buy? And was like, there's no value in that. Like, I felt like I was just pushing products versus providing value. And that's one of the things I loved about what I was selling before. So then I started to do consulting work into the investment casting industry, which is the industry I came out of because I had so much passion and so many tools that I developed over the eight plus years I'd been there. And then I was like, wait a minute, I don't really need to just do investment casting. I can do all manufacturing. So then I started consulting in all manufacturing. And. And then I was like, you know, you can only fix so much of a process before you start to work on the people side. Because the people side is so much harder than the process. And so I started moving into interim C suite positions. Coo, director of engineering, manufacturing, those types of roles. And I love doing that. I could come in, I could have an impact, I could make. I could just really impact the companies. But what I realized was when you're a consultant or you're in that interim role, usually the companies are broken. And I just got burned out by working with companies that were broken. And I just wanted to work with companies that wanted to be great, that maybe aren't great yet. And that's how I kind of. I found eos, through a Vistage group that I was in. And I said, this is my chance to really make an impact on these companies and help not only the process part, but also the people part.

[Ryan]

Love it. Who's just out of curiosity, whose Vistage group were you in?

[Julie]

I was in Ron Merriam.

[Ryan]

Because you're. You're Pacific Northwest as well.

[Julie]

I am. I'm down in the Portland area.

[Ryan]

Okay.

[Julie]

Yep.

[Ryan]

Got it. Okay. Okay. That, that, that makes sense. We just, we just moved down to LA about 10 months ago, but we were living in Seattle for, for quite some time. So there's. There's some really interesting. There's some really interesting things here because, like, like getting into EOS now, I don't think I've ever. I don't think I've had a conversation with an EOS implementer with such a deep background in engineering. And I think that that, that creates a really unique perspective, dynamic, and other things that you can bring to the room. So, like, how has, how has some of your education, experience, expertise kind of shown up in session rooms?

[Julie]

So I think that, as I mentioned back when I went to work for Frito Lay, when you go to engineering school, they don't really teach you anything but how to think. Like, there was really. I came out of college and I went to work. I did some stuff, some project in Frito Lay I'd never heard of before, a capacitor bank. I installed a backflow preventer. I didn't know any of that stuff was. So I didn't know that. But what I did know was how to think. And that's. I think that's the whole. The way that my. My brain looks at a problem is very, very structured and to the point where I don't even realize I'm doing it. I'm just kind of do it. So oftentimes when I'm in the session room, from that standpoint, I'm looking at what's the it? What's the, what am I seeing in front of me? What's not, what am I, what's not being said, what needs to be said? Why would somebody not want to say something like really kind of looking at everything that's going on when they're, when they're like, what are those dynamics in there, those underlying dynamics? And I'm watching body language I'm listening to. I'm looking at some people when they get nervous, their chest gets, their chest gets red, right? Or their faces start to get red, their hands start to move more. It's just like little tiny things. And I'm looking for like, I wonder what's behind that. So I'm observing constantly and in a way that is not, it is for the best interest of the team. Like, I'm never looking at, oh, I'm going to go after that person. That's not my brain. My mindset is what is the issue in front of this team and how do I help them? So that's just, it's happening all the time. But when I tell them, when I'm working with my, my manufacturing clients, my, my construction clients, those I understand their businesses. My husband, I ran a construction business together. So I can also pull some of my experience like, hey, well, you know, and I came, I've done a lot of aerospace work. So hey, in an aerospace company, here are some things that have worked or ti. Understand as 9100 or ISO. When I'm working on the process component, I'm like, that's not what we're talking about here. And helping them understand. I understand your quality management system. We're not talking about that and just kind of understanding their business, but not consulting. That's not what I'm here to do. But I'm here to just say give the context and the flavor based on the experience that I've had in manufacturing.

[Ryan]

And when, when you think about kind of like the structured, the structured thinking that you bring to a room, a lot of what you talked about there was like, it starts with the human. Like a lot of your observations were with the human. Is that the, is that kind of the first thing, the first nut you have to crack, the first thing you have to solve before you can get to the, the core issue, the root issue of the things that are actually happening inside of the organization.

[Julie]

It's always the leadership team and getting them healthy. That's, that's, I think that's it. And I, I, it's also learning how to communicate with Each member of the leadership team and being able to communicate differently with each member leadership team in the same. In the same session, I'm just, I will change my style so that they're going to hear me and they know that I've heard them. And so I think it's that ability of, gee, Ryan, what's the best way to communicate with Ryan? Ryan's visionary. So Ryan's probably going to want me to be quick. I want to ask some good questions. I want to give him space to talk, right. Those types of things. And then I'm testing that. Is that really how Ryan is? Is it. Is that working for Ryan? Do I need to change my approach? How's he responding? Like, what's his body language telling me? And then I might look over at your. I forgot the name of your integrator. And then asking, like, Alana. And just. And same, like, same thing, like, gee, how should I approach her? What's her body language saying? How fast is she talking? Because the finance. See, right. Sometimes they talk really slow. They need time, process. All good. It's all good. But I have to slow that down to give them space for that. And just understanding. What does everybody in the room need in order to get the most out of their day?

[Ryan]

I love that I was laughing there because you just, you just brought up memories of. This is probably like three or four companies ago. But my cfo, he would always, like, we would always all just talk so fast except for him. And, like, like, he would. He'd be like, one moment, one moment, one moment. And like, once he had his space, then there was just silence. And then he would. He would progress and it would be thoughtful and it would be intelligent and it would be spot on with, like, things. But it's just so. It's just so funny that, that you nailed the, the cfo.

[Julie]

Well, I don't want to, like, I don't want to stereotype them, so I don't want you to feel like that at all. But I. Sometimes I'm in the room and I'll. I'll ask. I have one team that's really, really big. It's too big, but it's a fantastic team. And I'm like, okay, who in here needs more time to process? And I, I already know the answer to that, but I'm, like, asking the question. So then I'm remembering, okay, this person needs some extra time, this one. And then I gotta create that space. O.J. i haven't heard from you in a while. What are you thinking? What's going on in your head right now and just helping draw them out so they're part of it.

[Ryan]

Like, one of the things you said was this idea of like a healthy leadership team. Like, goal number one is we gotta get the leadership team healthy. Like, first question is, what does a healthy for the CEOs, the visionaries, the integrators for folks that are listening to this, that sit on the SLT and are like, yeah, we're healthy. Like, maybe they're not. What does a healthy leadership team look like?

[Julie]

I think when they have the ability, like I like to tell them to say what needs to be said when it needs to be said in as few words as possible. And there's a lot of definitions of what healthy looks like, but having the comfort and knowing that they can actually have those conversations and say it and be heard and it takes a while. But I will tell you, the healthier your leadership team, the faster your organization is going to grow. That's all that's been my experience. You get that team healthy, the organization takes off. Takes a while to get that team healthy. It's going to stagnate for a while. It's not going to grow very fast. You get the right people in the room, you get some people out, do all that. The organization is going to do that. So get them to have those hard conversations. Pull the elephants out. Pull them out and make them talk about it. And again, when I say make, sometimes it might be a conversation outside the session room of. I mean, I sometimes will have leadership team members want to talk to me and I'll just say, I'm gonna make. I hear you. I can't solve this for you. I will create the opening for you to have this conversation in the session room. It's up to you whether or not you're going to walk through it or not. So they're mentally prepared. I'm not going to call them out. I will bring the topic up and I will say that 90% of the time they are actually talking about it in the session room before I bring it up.

[Ryan]

Like, when you think about kind of the core function areas, there's always this thing, sales and marketing. And then if sales and marketing is broke up, it could be sales versus marketing. But let's say we've just had like the three basic core functions in an organization. Organization. There's like this natural tension constantly between sales and marketing and operations. In my last company, or not to, not to, not to pinpoint the exact time in some of my previous companies, I'VE had. I've had even where the finance seat would. I don't want to say take control, but would, like, spearhead the forecasting effort. FP&A, folks that are behind the scenes trying to put together forecast things like that. And there's this, like, constant tension. And at least in my experience, what I've seen a lot is, like, the sales and marketing are constantly getting attacked, and it's like, we didn't hit the numbers. We didn't do this. We didn't do that. When you've got a healthy leadership team, how are those conversations landing? They're not accusations. It's kind of just speaking the facts. But how do you have those things land where the leaders that are sitting in those seats aren't, like, taking personal offense to that.

[Julie]

Well, I think that's when you get down into the root cause of the issue. Right? Is it? And I think that's when you start to go, okay, you're not hitting your numbers. Well, why aren't you hitting your numbers? And keep. And you know, one of the methodologies you can use, it's the five whys. You ask why five times, kind of work your way down. And so I think leadership teams are often hesitant to go down. I mean, ids I. That's. If you read traction, that's the biggest letter. Right? And then there's D and there's S. So what is the root cause? Because when you say, if you start blaming sales and marketing not hitting their numbers, are you accusing them of not doing their jobs? I mean, that's a pretty. Of course someone's gonna be defensive of that. So try to keep the. Put the issue in front of you. Right. Not between you. And so together as a leadership team, we need to solve this. And we can't coach ourselves from inside of a bottle. So use each other. All of you, all. Everyone in there, like, well, asking questions like, what's going on? What's working? What's not working? Where's your data? Like, just. But help. But not in accusatory kind of a way. And I think that that's where. I mean, ultimately you got to work yourself down. We're not hitting our sales numbers. Why not? Why are you making your sales calls? You know, why not? Like, why not? And then there's usually something else at the bottom of that. And it unfortunately is oftentimes a people issue, but they don't want to talk about that. So I think it's just, hey, look, we're here as a leadership team to solve the issue. We're not here to point fingers. And when I start the journey with my clients, one of the things I say is that we get to take credit for all the great things that are happening in our organization. We have to take responsibility for all the issues. But we're not going to spend any time pointing fingers and looking back. That's not going to help us. The problem is here. What are we doing to solve it? And I think if you can just have that attitude, you'll be amazed at how far the teams will go to get that solved.

[Ryan]

All right, quick break friends.

[Ryan Hogan]

Do you find it impossible to hire and retain top sales talent or worse, are you paying insane recruiter fees who are all using outdated hiring processes? Yeah, I was too at Hunt a Killer. We were spending hundreds of thousands on recruiter agency fees. And after I sold that company in

[Ryan]

2025, I started Talent Harbor.

[Ryan Hogan]

And the whole vision here was to make sales recruiting accessible to small and medium sized businesses. Because the organizations that can hire and retain world class people are the ones that ultimately win. Most organizations rely on things like ZipRecruiter or, or LinkedIn and they get hundreds if not thousands of resumes. But we find that the best salespeople are already perfectly placed somewhere else and that's why our approach is to go after them. And we do that through a business model called recruiting as a service. We do not charge commissions, we do not have success fees, we don't have contracts, we don't have long term engagements and we become an extension piece. Your team as expert sales recruiters. If you're tired of the same old recruiters and want to actually grow your sales team, check us out@talent harbor.com. that's Talent Harbor. T A L E N T H A R B O R dot com. Let's get your next sales superstar hired.

[Ryan]

Do you think like when there's, when there's a people issue and the people issue is in the room, are you of the mindset where kind of like pushing on that button while everybody's in the room and, and having, having that conclusion being drawn in the space or is that something that you think like the visionary, the integrator picks up, There's a conversation and that's an, that's an offline. That's an offline topic.

[Julie]

You know Ryan, I think it depends on the situation. Will I let somebody be attacked in the room? No, absolutely not. That's not going to happen. That's not, that's not open and honest. That's not healthy. That's not what we're doing here. Um, sometimes I've had one. Some teams where, you know, the sales managers can't see, hey, there's an issue with your team. He. He can't see it, and he needs to hear it from the team. Like, here's some examples of what's going on. And sometimes it's. I had another team where we had two people on the leadership team that were doing this, and I. Four sessions in a row. All we're doing is trying to solve these two issues. And I finally. I got ahold of the integrator and I said, you need to solve this. We can't do another session. I can't do another session until you get this resolved. And it needs to be resolved. You're holding the organization back right now. That was resolved out offline. So I think it depends what the situation is. I had another one where there's tension between the president and operations, and that conversation took place with the leadership team. The two of them. I'm facilitating. Other members of the leadership team are participating. Hey, here's what I'm observing. Here's what I've seen from both sides. So as a leadership team, they were able to solve an issue that was related to somebody on the team in a way that was just probably the healthiest I've ever seen. So it just depends on the team. It depends on the situation. It depends on the person. There's a lot going on there, and I think it's just me knowing when do I push and when do I pull back. And also having the opportunity to coach the integrator or the visionary on. Here's some. Here's some things that usually outside the room. Here's some things I think you can do. Here's a different perspective. Here's one to try in the room. We're going to see how that works. Just kind of helping them through that, because I think they need that outside perspective to help them resolve those issues. And it just depends on the situation, what the best way is to do that.

[Ryan]

That's super interesting. Like, where. One of the places my mind immediately goes to is like. It's like. It's not about. It's not about the personal attack. It's more about, like, how. And maybe it's using an example of the one that you saw that went down incredibly, incredibly healthy and beautifully when it was a people issue and it was in the room. It's like, how. How are people communicating? How are people communicating in a way in which, like, let's say the Room's filled with your standard five people. Your visionary integrator, finance, sales, marketing and operations. Like, how do you get, how do you ensure that you don't get to a place where it becomes like a four on one? And I think one of the things I heard you say is like, it's like the people, it's almost an audience in that case. But the people, the observers, the other folks in the room were then, were then giving their observations of what they saw, generally speaking, on both sides without like potentially you. Maybe that's the. Maybe that was the key.

[Julie]

I think it was the key. It was wading into that conversation very delicately. Yeah. And those. This is a team I've been working with for a while. And they, they, they were seeing both sides like it wasn't, like it wasn't, hey, it's all your fault. It was, hey, there's tension. This is what this person is doing. This is what this person is doing. Let's give feedback on both sides. And I was, I mean, so yes, I was still facilitating and I was watching this person that was really in the hot seat and delicately working through that. But that team was able to just kind of lean in and both sides got to see it. I think one thing though, I think is really important when you are talking about this is I'm looking for body language. And sometimes if someone's mad, they're gonna put their back to the person. Like they're mad at the person behind them. And it might be a round table, but their body language is shit. Like, kind of like, I'm not, I'm not talking to that person. It's really subtle. I will not let that happen. When I start to see somebody doing that, I'm like, I think you need to move back a little bit because this person's being left out of the conversation. And just. I will, I just, that's. I don't know. I don't know if everyone picks up on it, but I pick up on it. When I feel like someone doesn't want to hear what I have to say, they will rotate away from that person. So being super clear about body language and how they're sitting in their chairs is. That's a really good sign as to what's where, where the issues are, even if they're not talking about it.

[Ryan]

That's incredible. Julie. I think you've got like a million dollar blog post right now where like, like just the things, just the like behaviors and the want, all these things that you're looking for. I mean, We've. We've went through, like, you know, a little bit of. Of red on the chest to, like, subtle, subtle repositionings to facial expressions, things like that. I don't know if it exists, but that's. That's a lot of things that you're looking for all at the same time. Which is. Which is super helpful.

[Julie]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

You talked a little bit about root cause when we jumped right into the five whys, like, the simplest level, like, because I've heard this a lot, root cause analysis. It's like, well, what is it? It's just getting to the root of the issue. Like, in. In your words, from. From an engineer. Like. Like, what is the root cause assessment or root cause analysis?

[Julie]

Well, it is just getting down. What is the true root that's causing this particular problem? You know, in manufacturing, I was. I just remember the bottling line at Ocean Spray. You know, you're dealing with glass bottles. Can't have glass. Can't have juice in a bottle that could have glass in it. Right. I mean, a food safety issue. And so we'd go out there, bottles are falling over, and it's. It seems like, oh, it's just a simple little fix. But I'd send out my best maintenance guy out there, and he would spend a couple of hours watching and, like, figure out the little, tiny nuances. It was usually a small, small adjustment that would fix it. But I see other people go in, they're like, oh, we're gonna fix this. We're gonna elbow everybody out of the way. We're gonna start changing everything. And that's not how you solve a problem. You gotta observe it. So I. I mean, I'm going back to manufacturing. That's what I know. But some. But our tendency when we get to ID'sing is to jump into disgust. Someone says, this is the issue. And yet now we're going to discuss them. Like, is that really the issue? Is that really the issue? And keep pushing them and pushing them. And I tell my clients, if you're starting to feel physically uncomfortable, you're probably getting close to the root. And so I think taking time to really identify the true root cause is. It takes so much discipline, because we just want to discuss, discuss, discuss, but just keep. Slow down. Let's figure it out. What is the true root cause? I had a client that they were struggling, hitting their revenue numbers, and it was. They missed the rock. They missed this rock quarter after quarter after quarter. And they're sitting there and they're like, okay, this is the rock. When I'm like, no, I'm not writing that down. I'm not using. I'm not wasting my ink on this. And they just stared at me. It was like the first session with a second session with a brand new president. And he's looking at me, I'm like, okay, why aren't we hitting this number? And I like listed all the potential root causes, all of them up on the board. And I said, okay, what can we do to fix this? What can we do to fix this? What can we do to fix this? It just went through all of it. Like, assign stuff, people. You're gonna do this, you're gonna do that, you're gonna do this, you're gonna do that. I circled the whole thing. I looked over at the president, I go, that's your rock. Get that shit done. So they got that done, and then what happens? Now the revenue is growing and it's just having the ability to like, really challenge them to get what is really keeping you from hitting this. And that's the part where having patience, challenging your team. Right. Because I'm sure that there are people in the room that were not happy with my approach. But at the end, the owner looked at me and she goes, julie, way to tear us down and then build us back up again. And I'm like, I love you guys, but I don't want to. You keep missing this rock and let's help you figure out why you're not getting it. And I think sometimes they just can't see it. And so keep digging down what's keeping us from achieving this.

[Ryan]

Well, I mean, that's, that's brilliant. I have, like, I have so many stories here, but one, I realized that this whole idea of EOS and having the US Implementer is this, is this two year graduation process. The argument that I have held, we never graduated. We kept an implementer with my last company all the way through Exit. And the reason for that is that that perspective that you're talking about, like, yes, someone may understand the process, they may understand how to implement, they may be able to teach it to the teams. And therefore you've kind of passed the exam. Great. But I think it's so important to have a third party in the room that can help facilitate the conversations. Like, we all have blind spots. And then we get to this weird place where like the entire SLT starts having similar blind spots. And so it's fascinating to hear both your approach and how you handle that. One more caveat. Then I'll ask you the Next question. Because I still want to stick with, with the root cause, but yesterday I had a. I'm renowned for distracting organizations.

[Julie]

They're a visionary.

[Ryan]

Yeah, I can, I can grow a business pretty fast. And then, and then like, there's a certain point where I just start becoming a problem. And I was talking to my business coach about this yesterday and we had this one problem at the current company. And it's basically like when we started Talent Harbor, I wanted a retention based business. And so we came up with this subscription model and I was like, this is great. We have a retention based business. We do not. We are so far down market and we're so good at recruiting. Shout out to the recruiting team. I'm not, I'm not a recruiter, but like, clients usually stay with us for about a month and a half and we find them an amazing candidate, they go and, and they'll come back. But that's not a retention based business. And so instead of running your process and being like, hey, let's figure out some root causes and let's figure out like some easy things that, that we can change, I'm like, hey, we need a retention based business model. And so last month I, I scooped one in and now we've got two offerings and I distracted the organization. We just, we just wound down that other offering and, and just handed the business to, to a good friend of mine. But it goes back to that idea of like, there's, there's so many layers and there's so many other things you can do. Like, I guess, like all problems are not as simple as probably the leaders on the team think they are.

[Julie]

Yeah.

[Ryan]

How do you, how do you know? You know? And I get the five whys. How do you know though? Like, like five whys is a great start. Five whys is like, hey, why this? Okay, great. All right, well then why that? Why this? You go, you go down five whys. But how do you know that? Like, you got it, you. You got to the root cause.

[Julie]

It's a good question, I think, I think it's part of just my, my. I'm asking myself really what's going on here? And I keep asking. I'm also taking all the information I've gotten. Listening, listening to the teams, listening to what they're saying. Usually doesn't take me long to figure out who I really need to go. Really? Is that true? You have data to back that up? Just kind of. Because I've seen teams run off on some idea that's not true and wasted A whole bunch of time and money following what they think was the root cause when it wasn't.

[Ryan]

So

[Julie]

I would say when the entire team is leaning in, you're probably really close to that true root cause. It's like, you can tell there's. There's been a shift in the room, a shift in the energy, and the teams that have. It doesn't happen on every issue. It's usually the meaty one. It's the meatiest issue. And all of a sudden, they're leaning in, they're all participating. It's getting emotional, it's getting heavy. And like I said, these are. These are not. Not every issue is like this. But the ones that are really holding the organization back are the ones where there's gonna be some discomfort and we're gonna have to say some stuff we don't want to say and not. They're not always ready for it at that particular moment to go deeper than where they're at. And so I'm gonna make a note of something in the back of my mind, like, hey, next time this comes up, there's more to go, but I can't push them through something that they don't want to go to yet. And I also respect the fact, as an engineer that sometimes we need time to process, because that's how I am. I'm definitely. I need time to think through things. And so if we can peel part of it back and then maybe the next session, we're going to go a little bit further. If I feel like it's an issue after talking with the V or the I, I'll put it on the issues list. Like, hey, look, this. These are my thoughts from this last session, the time we talked about this. Where's the team at with this? I have some other ideas, some other things. So I don't think that answers your question, but I think it's the biggest pain. They're leaning forward, and they're actually being vulnerable is how I know that it's there. And unfortunately, I think I said about 80% of the time, it's a people issue. And those people issues are hard.

[Ryan]

I think you just nailed my. Like, one thing that I was thinking about as you were, as you were walking through that story was you talked about how hard it is, like, when people start feeling a little awkward and. And, like, a little edgy. I was going to ask, like, why do you think that is? But I think you just nailed it right there, which is, like, those big, meaty issues. 80% of them come down to people. And that's going to make the room uncomfortable at that point. Yeah, yeah. What are there ways like in. And it's, it's interesting to hear you talk about like the idea of processing. And, and one of the things that's, you know, when you think about a quarterly pulse or a two day annual planning session, you know, you're in the room and you're, you're just like, you're trying to solve as many of the problems as you can and, and work your way through and do it efficiently and, and effectively. All those different things. Are there things that leadership teams can do to show up, to be more prepared to have those conversations? So less not thought, but less processing is needed in the moment?

[Julie]

Yes, they can take a clarity break. And I'm laughing because I don't know why I have a hard time getting my teams to take clarity breaks. But I was just doing a, I don't know if you've heard, I had my energy meeting, which we won't get into right now, but it's just a, a level 10 meeting for local entrepreneurs. We're talking about idsing. And here's the thing, the more clarity breaks you take, the faster you're going to solve your issues. So I think it's important to just, I tell my clients before, before session with me, please take a clarity break. Think about what the most important issues are, the most important rocks could be for the company, for you. What do you need to IDS with me in the room then? How do you want to show up to be your absolute best in the room? Because sometimes we don't show up with intention. We haven't set an intention on who we're going to be when we walk in that room. And not everyone's excited to be in the session room. Some people know there's tension between other people and it's hard, it's hard to be in a room with someone that you don't like, you don't trust. And I think it's good for you to get some clarity. How do you want to show up? What are the things I need to do so I can get my absolute best time out of that? So those clarity breaks, they're such a gift, they're such a gift to give to the organization if you can take time. But for some reason there's some people just are hesitant to do that. And like I say, if you're not thinking about the business, who is? So somebody needs to be thinking about it.

[Ryan]

If there's someone that's that's walking into a, into a session room and they either don't want to be there, they feel awkward. It's, it's, it's not like they're not excited about it. Would that be, and I'm not saying that, that they are the problem. Would that be an indicator to you that there may be a, a people issue on the leadership team if there's other people that are feeling like that walking into the session room?

[Julie]

Absolutely, absolutely. But they don't always tell you that. And that's the whole thing is, you know, we talk about what are the ghosts in the room, right? And it's, we need to find the ghosts. And I remember when I first started, I'm like, you know, you can't see them. How do you know they're there? And I've had sessions where there was a ghost in the room. I didn't know until the end of the day. I'm like, this would have been super helpful if somebody would have told me this at the beginning of the day. So that's again that my sense is just like, I am in there, I'm fully present, like, what, what am I feeling right now? And I've learned to ask, you know, the integrators. There's something going on in the team right now that I need to know before I walk into the room.

[Ryan]

You talked about clarity break and a little bit of like what folks should achieve on a clarity break, just in case we've got people listening and they're like, well, what's a clarity break? Outside of things that they should be thinking about, what is a clarity break and what is like the perfect clarity break?

[Julie]

Look like a clarity break is just when you're taking time to think on the business, kind of get out of the day to day. Geno Wickman created Eos by going to Starbucks at 9 o' clock every Friday and just write with his yellow legal pad. Okay. So he created a whole operating system, a whole company based on that. But I can't tell you what the perfect clarity break looks like because everyone needs to decide, discover that for themselves. They need to figure out what that is. For me, it's usually outside in nature. But if I'm going to do one in my office, probably not in my office, but somewhere not outside. I know that it takes me at least 25 minutes to get all the stuff out of my head and come down and be able to focus and really get deeper into things. And so these are big thinking questions. What are the most important things I need to focus on this week, this month, this quarter. I mean, those are some of the questions. What's one big one bold people move that I can take in this next quarter that's really going to move the organization forward? You know, for you, it's like, how do I solve this recurring revenue issue that I have? It's big, meaty issues that you, that you need more time to solve than just sitting at your desk for 15 minutes. This is just stuff that's going to help really propel the organization forward. And I have a list of questions that people have. If they're not sure and they want a list of questions, just reach out to me. I'm happy to share those. But I think as leaders, that's the most important thing we can do is take time to think on the business.

[Ryan]

Are you encouraging your leaders to do this? Like Gino, once a week, same day, same place, get your thoughts out or what are your thoughts?

[Julie]

You know what I found is when I start pushing, this is how you need to do it. What are they, what are they gonna do? They're like, yeah, no, we're good. Thanks, Julie. So I figure out what works for them. And, you know, I, you know, I have one visionary. He does it every morning, 4 o' clock in the morning. He's a flaming visionary. Amazing, right? That's what, that's. His job is to do that. So he's doing his clarity breaks every day, once a week, every other week. Probably no less frequent than once a month would be my recommendation. And that's what I tell my clients. But figure out if it's a long run, if it's your drive from, you know, home to the office, I can't. I used to just say you have to do it this way. And that doesn't serve everyone. And so I was turning people off. So I just figure out you what works for you. But honor that time because we are really good at scheduling over that time. Oh, I'll get to it. That's not that important. This is from the Eisenhower matrix, right? This is the important, not urgent stuff that we need to do. That's where your clarity break needs to be.

[Ryan]

I love that. I also love that you just brought up this idea of, of like if you do it in the car, the, the one thing that I think has been a detriment with this whole, like, everybody works from home now. Like, I work in this, this home office. I'm here, I take the kids to school, come right back meeting. Next meeting, next meeting. It's just meeting after meeting, after meeting and everything is all set up. And these are like in person meetings because they're Zoom or they're Riverside. But there's, there's not. Like there used to be a 30 minute depending upon where I live, 30 to 60 minute. When I was in Seattle, I would take the bus each day and like I would just close my eyes and think. And when I lived in San Diego, it was like a 45 minute drive to, to work each day. And there was so much like thought and processing that you could do. And that's like, that's gone nowadays now we have to be, I think, as you said, intentional about a lot of these things because those, those natural breaks that we used to have are no longer here.

[Julie]

Very, very true. And it's also learning how to work from home is a challenge too. So I'm sure a lot of people figured it out. But separating yourself, go someplace, go, go figure. I don't know. I like to hike. That's my happy place. That's where I do all my thinking. I'm also in the car. I don't have, I typically don't have music on. I usually am just thinking and just pondering things.

[Ryan]

Okay, so last two questions. Number one, what do you look for in a client? So are you geographically, do you focus on certain industries? You're agnostic? What's the perfect client look like for you?

[Julie]

Well, I have three things I like that I'm listening for if I was talking to a prospective client. The first is you have to genuinely care about your employees. If you don't care, this will never work with me because at my heart I truly just value, value people. The second thing is that you have to want to be doing to have to want to do something different. Right. If you, if you, that means something has to change. And the third thing is that they have to recognize that they're probably part of the problem and not all of the problem, but part of the problem. And so when I'm talking to my prospective clients, that's what I'm listening for to answer all three of those things. And if I don't feel like they're there, then it's not going to be a good fit. Maybe there's another implementer that's good for them. But so that's geographically. I mean, I'm in the Pacific Northwest. I do have some clients all over the country, but this is my backyard, the Portland, Oregon area. And I came out of manufacturing. I've owned a construction company with my husband. So I love those types of clients. But I also find that the other clients that I don't know as well their business, I can be even more effective because I have to ask really, really good questions to help get to the root of what's going on.

[Ryan]

Awesome. All right, last. Last question. If someone just listened to this whole thing, they're like, oh, my gosh, in engineering, USI and thinking differently and like, great at finding root causes. How can they get ahold of you?

[Julie]

So you can find me on my. My website, which is key processinnovations.com I also have a link to my microsite through EOS Worldwide. On that one, I do have a blog post that's titled Cooped Up Thoughts, and I talk about my adventures of becoming a chicken mama, and I tie that to implementing eos. So if you like a little sarcasm, a little humor, you can join me with that. You can find that on my website or you can also find it on LinkedIn. And yeah, so that's how you can find me.

[Ryan]

Nice. How many chickens do you have?

[Julie]

Just that curiosity. I think I have 12. I'm right now I have three roosters. And so one of them needs to go up. As my most recent blog post was, do I need to get rid of all three of my roosters and get fresh blood? Or I don't. I don't know. So we're not promoting from within or am I gonna bring some fresh blood from the outside?

[Ryan]

But my co founder from my last two companies and childhood friend, known him since first grade. He is like huge on chickens. And I'm just fascinated because it's a whole thing. There's like a whole community of people out there that are doing this. So I love Julie. Thanks so much for coming on. Appreciate it. Your story was incredible. I think, like, you had a lot of great tactical stuff that you brought into this, and I loved your perspective. So I just wanted to thank you for coming on and sharing some wisdom

[Julie]

for an hour and thank you so much for the time. It was great, great to spend some time with you. I appreciate it and I appreciate everything you're doing at Talent harbor as well.