← Confessions of an Implementer
Confessions of an Implementer
S2E55 | The Difference Between Tired and Burnt and Why It Almost Cost Him Everything with Justin Maust
01:01:47
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- [00:00]
Justin Moss
I felt like a rat on a treadmill inside of an aquarium with the water rising and I'm like just trying to grasp for air and I'm like, this is not the picture Justin wants for the next 20 years of his life. Something's gotta give.
- [00:19]
Ryan Hogan
Welcome to Confessions of an Implementer. I'm your host, Ryan Hogan. We share unique stories of EOS implementers and the companies they've transformed to give you a rare glimpse into the successes and challenges of the system in action.
- [00:32]
Ryan
Let's jump in. You're somewhat of a celebrity. Like you, you are everywhere. Every time I, every time I turn on LinkedIn, every time I talk to somebody, like your name comes up constantly.
- [00:43]
Justin Moss
Sorry, sorry, Ryan.
- [00:48]
Ryan
Yeah, you just like, and the one thing that is like consistent is your energy. Like you, you're like the energy, like, it's like you and Scott Rusnak, like you, you both just have never ending energy.
- [01:01]
Justin Moss
Next level. Dude, that's, that's a whole. Man, if you put me even close to that category, I'd be like, dang, you need to get, you need to see some reality. Rust neck is next level. That's for sure.
- [01:12]
Ryan
I love it. Well, thanks for, for taking the time to, to jump on and, and share your story. And you know, I, I think a big part of this is really just figuring out who you are and, and I had this like lead in question of like who is, who is Justin Moss? But one thing that came up during, I don't know, Green Room, whatever we call it here was the board behind you and like talk to me, you were the first, like not just on a podcast, something like that. Like you're the first person I've ever talked to that behind you had a vision board and like it's custom and you put it together. So talk to me about that.
- [01:47]
Justin Moss
So listen, you know, we believe in vision at eos. We, we have this VTO Vision Traction organizer. And so I'm a visual guy and I'm an emotor. I need to be freaking jacked about my life, freaking jacked about the direction I'm going. And so I don't really care what anybody else thinks. This is my room, this is my space, right? So I've got to make sure I'm fueling Justin Moss to live and breathe the way he feels called to live and breathe. So I'm a, I, I'm a faith based guy, but I needed to see vision. So I'm just going to kind of take you, right, I'll take you through a little Journey. So my wife and I, my wife and I run on Eos. Eos light. Like it's not perfected. But we do have our own little passion statement. We want to obey God, we want to love people, we want to live generously. And so I've got a favorite verse for that. And then over here I've got kind of like down here I've got my passion. Like this is my company passion statement. Everything I do, Ryan, I want to bless people. I want to, I get jacked about growing companies. Don't put me in a room with
- [02:54]
Ryan
people that don't want to grow something.
- [02:55]
Justin Moss
If you don't want to grow something, I'm not your guy. And then I want to fund ministry. So that's all from, from top left to bottom right. This is deeply personal. I'm on a personal mission. And so these three guys, this is like, they're like guys heads in a cloud. Right. But, but they're, they're all in their 80s or 90s. This was Stanley Tam. He just passed away at 107 years old.
- [03:20]
Ryan
Wow.
- [03:21]
Justin Moss
He gave $160 million to fund the ministry that he was passionate about. Then you have Truett Cathy, CEO, founder of Chick Fil A. And then you have David Green, my latest mentor. He's the founder of Hobby Lobby. Started with a $600 loan out of his garage. Paid his kids 7 cents to make a frame, a picture frame that turned into a thousand Hobby Lobby stores. So I just want to, you know, to recognize that these guys put their pants on the same way I do. And yet they're, you know, he runs a 10 billion dollar enterprise or something crazy like that and they give 50% of their profits away. So this is like the Justin reminder of hey, it's possible like stay open to what could happen. And then over here I've got a picture of my brother. He's running a non profit that I've been passionate about for years. And then my family, my, my dad and my, my son in law, they're running a mission that I'm passionate about. So this is just a reminder that I want to be about something bigger than me. It's got to be bigger than me, Ryan. It's got to be. And then this is, this is like a faith rocket because literally I, I want to ex. Go beyond what I think is possible. I want to redline my life. I want to run in such a way as to win the prize. I, and so I've got like the faith bomb has hit me and you know we all have these big targets and so I just want to run and I want to get after it. So that's like a constant reminder for Justin. And the truth is in there is some hidden numbers, but you got to be willing to like have a target. But when you need to pivot, it's okay to pivot. And so the crazy thing about this vision board is this was an eight and a half year journey and I was 18 months away from my 10 year target and I was burnt out, I was overwhelmed, I was exhausted and I was becoming the person I didn't want to become because I was striving to make my target become reality and I had to pivot. And so I don't give up on goals. Like that is not the DNA of Justin Moss is give up on goals. But everyone, everyone surrounding me was like, Justin, you're burning out. This thing is going to kill you. Stop running so hard, you're going to run yourself into a wall. And I disregarded it for like six years. And then it finally hit me and I'm like, this is too much. Great dream, great dream. I'm not giving up on me being a generous person, but I've pivoted because I think my unique calling, my mission is actually speaking training and coaching. It's not to become one of these amazing business giants. And so you can, you can try to adopt someone else's dream and it can bury you. And so I have this because I love this stuff. But you're catching me at a spot in my life where there's been a massive pivot. Within the last year, last, last nine months, I, I've sold two of my companies. I've whittled down to like, what is my unique ability, what is my gift to the world? And I am, I am here to ignite and fuel people with tools and disciplines to succeed. That's what I do. And I might not ever create something amazing like what those three people created and have the ability to have the affluence like what they had. But I can tell you what, I'm giving it everything. I got to ignite and fuel people with a simple set of tools and disciplines to help them freaking crush whatever their dreams and goals are. I love that I'm in the middle of recreating another 10 year target that fits Justin most even better. And I love what John Maxwell says. He goes, listen, there's going to be pivots in your life and you got to forget what's behind you and you got to make the pivot set a new target and keep on going with the same steam you had before. That's Confessions of an Implementer right there, baby.
- [07:23]
Ryan
That's that like right out of the gate. And by the way you and I talked, I think it was about nine months ago and we talked on the phone and you were literally like, I am. I'm going through the biggest transition. Call me back in like six or nine months because I'm going through the biggest transition of my life right now.
- [07:42]
Justin Moss
Yeah, yeah, it was huge. It was, I was burnt. Like, I'm rarely burnt out. When I say burnt out, like, literally going, what? Something is really not working. I've been tired a lot because I run hard. So tired is different than burnt. You can be tired and still be like taking it all in stride, like working hard tired, but burnt out tired. That's. That's where it's dangerous. That's where it's unhealthy. That's where you're not winning. That's where you become kind of the person you don't want to be. Whether it's at home or at work or, you know, you just, you start your mindset messes with you. And so then I just recognize, I honestly, Ryan, I just had to surrender the whole thing to God was like, what's going on? And so that whole transition, I'm a faith based guy, so, you know, I don't know what everybody else does to how they solve their burnt issues, but for me, I have to take it to God.
- [08:33]
Ryan
What does that look like from a. You know, you talked a little bit about the transition from tired to burnt and like the consistency or the other places that, that started seeping in, like when, if a founder or somebody is, is experiencing something similar, like what are some signs that they are in the Navy, by the way, we call it operating in the red. And it's like different levels of stress or different levels of life. And, and like red is, is this category that like sometimes you get there, you just don't want to stay too long. What are some things that started showing up where you were like, hey, this, I'm not tired anymore. Like, this is, this is not tired. This is something very different and very dangerous.
- [09:10]
Justin Moss
Justin starts complaining a lot. People around Justin going, are you okay? It doesn't feel like, I mean, just, just those types of comments. And then when you have your family who knows you and loves you and they're saying things like, why are you doing this? Is this the price you want to pay? Like you're giving up A lot. And so you just, if you, you know, they, they say there's two traits of the most successful people in the, in the world. Delayed gratification is number one, and self awareness is number two. And I've never been good at self awareness. Like, you gotta hit me over this head with a sledgehammer to wake me up. Because when I, I'm like a dog on the back of a meat truck. When you give me a bone, I'm gonna, I'm gonna. You're not getting the bone back. So I had a couple bones, some targets that I, I believed I had to change, chased down, and I would. I'll go through some serious pain to bring that thing to life. And I think I, I'm just grateful that God woke me up. I have so many amazing friends. Kelly Knight, integrator of EOS Worldwide, she hammered me in a conversation just like what we're having here in a zoom call. And Jill Young, she hammered me, my dad, my brother, my wife. Like, there was enough comments. And then my own head trash listening to my own voice going, this seems way harder, way harder than it should be. And I'm helping other entrepreneurs crush it. I'm help. I'm swatching them 2x3x. Today I talked to one of my clients that 5.5x his company in the past 8 years. And he has more time, freedom, he has more mental freedom than he's ever had. And it's, it's easy to him. And I'm like a year ago looking at my life going, nothing is easy. Everything feels hard and heavy and it's not easy. And I'm like, this is, this is not what we call the EOS life. And so I'm. That you just got to pay attention to the signs. I don't know if any of this is making sense.
- [11:11]
Ryan
It does. It does. Because it sounds like sometimes those signs even come from, like, one of my biggest takeaways with what you just said is like, it's not just about yourself seeing it because it sounds like you had entered a different level of, of exhaustion or like you were feeling different. And it was also the ex. Like, the validation for you was like other people were now picking up on it. And you're like, there's. There's something different this time.
- [11:35]
Justin Moss
And, and the truth is there are some other people chattering in your ear. And they've been doing this for me for several years, but I had strong desire, and so I disregarded their noise making because if it's not noise in my Head. I'm not gonna let anybody just talk me out of my freaking dream.
- [11:53]
Ryan
Yeah.
- [11:54]
Justin Moss
So it, I had to get to my low point where I'm like, something isn't right. Something's not working. This is, this is caught. John Maxwell says, you know, you can pay too much for your dream. And when you're paying too much for your dream, that's when I started paying attention, going, I'm adding up some of these sacrifices that I was making. And I'm like, is this really worth it? And then when your head trash starts going there for me, that's when I pay attention. Because there's a lot of people will try to talk you off of doing amazing things because it's too hard. I, I don't want to be that guy. Oh, yeah. I want to. I want to go with the Joneses and go with the easy path. That's just not my DNA. I'm always going to be a redliner. I'm always going to run hard. I don't want to be talked down from running hard. Don't tell me to slow down. But when I'm in burnt mode, that's one I, I, that's the best way I can describe it because I run hard. A lot of entrepreneurs run hard, but burnt hard is different than just running hard and being well rested and being able to get things done and not feeling like you're just. I think I felt like a rat. I felt like a rat on a treadmill inside of an aquarium with the water rising and I'm like, just trying to grasp for air and I'm like, this is not the picture Justin wants for the next 20 years of his life. Something's gotta give.
- [13:15]
Ryan
Did you feel out of control at all? Like, out of, not out of control of like, you physically or things like that? Out of control as far as, like, life was being kind of dictated for you based upon all the things that you had going on, or it was like, no, you, you were still choosing. It's just you were choosing all at one time and moving at a thousand miles an hour.
- [13:33]
Justin Moss
100% choosing and then getting your rear end hammered on two fronts and winning on one front and, and you're paying the price of time and energy and lost relationship with your family and burning the candle on both ends and never feeling like you're caught up. This is the entrepreneurial journey. We go through phases. And even though you can be an expert implementer, you know, a content coach, business is very different than having 50 people that I oversee that are running A business for me, an implementer career. I'm a franchisee that is very different than any one of my clients. It's, this is a solopreneur business for the most part. I got an executive assistant. I've got a full time team member in the Philippines that does graphic design. I'm a one and a half person team outside of myself. And who does the sales and marketing? I do. Who does the integration of my own vto? Well, I do. I'm not hiring an integrator for a small business like this. Now if I want to go beyond this, I'll need an integrator. So you know, there's some people that would argue that would hammer me over the head right now saying, Justin, you need an integrator right now. But you know, I don't feel the need to have an integrator for my EOS practice. 25 clients, great executive assistant. Jennifer's amazing. We're crushing it in terms of just the EOS business. It's when Justin layered on two other businesses and a big challenge and all kinds of things. Does that make sense?
- [15:10]
Ryan
It does. And I do want to come back to that in just a second because you talked about two other businesses and there's more than just that. Like you, you've, you've had quite a few businesses over the years and super interested to get into some of those topics. One thing I, I do want to talk about with the 10 year target because this is such an interesting thread and I just caught you at the right time. Wrong time, Right time, who knows. But like you going wrong time for me, that, that might be, that might be it or right time for me and the audience and wrong time. But it's like there's so many lessons to extract from this and one of the things that I find fascinating is, is you Change your, your 10 year target. And you know a part of this is, is you know, as companies evolve and companies pivot and companies do other things and some companies like reach their 10 year target in three years and have to redevelop the whole thing. You redid your 10 year target. What lessons did you learn from that initial 10 year target that you carried forward into this kind of new vision?
- [16:11]
Justin Moss
So I'm in, I think I'm still in the middle of it to be honest, like, because I've, I've, I just sold the company in last October. There's still, my rear end is tagged to a couple things still from a liability standpoint and, and I told my team I'm not doing, they, they pushed me like, Justin, can you commit to not doing anything new this next year? Like in 26? Can you just be an implementer? And so I'm like, that's it. I, I, I promise you guys, we're just going to do this, we're going to kind of lock in here for a minute. And so that's the mode I'm in. And I'm in the middle of developing my next 10 year target and I've got a green light. Listen, I'm, because I'm a solopreneur small team here. I got a green light from my executive assistant and a green light from my wife. I got one idea that I'm working on. Oh no, no, no, no, no. And I've gotten a green light from two ladies that are like high fact finder, high follow through. And we're just throwing, we call it a bullet, just a little bullet. Not a cannonball, not a cannonballs. Jim Collins talks about fire bullets and cannonballs. He's like, the companies that struggle, the people that struggle are when they just fire massive bullets. Lots of time, lots of money, lots of resource and it doesn't produce results. So I'm firing a little bullet, ping, miss, miss, miss, ping, ping, ping. And then all of a sudden I hit. So right now they've given me the green light. I've been working on this project for probably four years and they gave me a green light to push the needle a little bit more this year. Just a small investment. And so I'm in the middle of establishing a new ten year target with two things in mind. But both of them, here's the key point, Ryan. They're both in my sweet spot. They are both about me delivering content. As a speaker, trainer, coach, facilitator, implementer, it's me doing what I do best. It's me not trying to be like one of those guys and have a business that's scaling and growing. And it's me just developing content and igniting and fueling people with tools and disciplines to help them succeed. My target that I'm building is 100% dialed in to my unique ability, to my mission, to my calling, where I can directly tell you the other two businesses I had had nothing to do with my unique ability. They had nothing to do with my core passion. Because my target was about generosity. I just had a giving goal. So everything about that past target was just make more money, not necessarily have more impact. It was become more generous. And that target put me into a zone where I Was striving way beyond what I should. And now this one. I have the freedom. I mean, I can't tell you how much freedom I feel like I have. I have the freedom to be Justin Moss. Like, on this podcast. I'm still living out my purpose. Some people are looking at all my mistakes, going, boy, he sure is passionate about all those jacked up mistakes. But I'm igniting and fueling people, hopefully with some lessons of don't do this or do this, but that's me in my zone. Does that make sense?
- [19:28]
Ryan
It does. And like, would you say that the money aspect, I realize we're talking about giving, but there's a quantifiable thing of money of like chasing money versus changing that to chasing impact. Like, is that, is that a core difference that you're seeing through this evolution,
- [19:47]
Justin Moss
man, because it's so much in my wiring. I feel like everything I've done has had crazy impact. I wanted to impact people's lives. That's a way of how Justin shows up. That's always been the base case. But doing that through eos is. And then taking the dollars I generated and starting another company and trying to replicate and multiply the revenue generation. And that company went from 0 to 4.8 million in like six or seven years. They grew it 60% a year for seven years.
- [20:23]
Ryan Hogan
Wow.
- [20:24]
Justin Moss
So it wasn't like they did nothing but the tax that I paid, the toll I paid, the liability, and the weight that I was trying to shoulder where I couldn't be laser focused, my. My head was over here, my heart was being pulled over here, and it was derailing me. And evenings, I can't tell you how many phone calls I was taking in the evenings, not being with my family. And so I was just paying too much. So I felt like I've always had impact as an implementer. But I bet you there's some of my clients that could say, yeah, I noticed Justin was a little bit more tired. And so did they. Did they take a back seat? Not in my heart, but in my capacity, probably no. And so to answer your question that, you know, I, I didn't just chase dollars. I was having impact, but I was trying to multiply whatever I was getting revenue wise. Let's put that back into this. Let's put. And some of that. I just lost my butt on a couple ideas. Like, it's when you lose, you have to work really hard to lose as bad as what I lost. And that, that helps wake you up sometimes. Like, dang, that was a One of the ideas was a complete fundraiser. It was the right ideal, it was the right heart. Totally flopped. Lost a quarter million dollars on that one idea. And it was supposed to be a fundraiser for nonprofit. Instead it was a quarter million dollar loss to my business. And, you know, I, if you could have seen the conversation at the end of that project, my wife and I talking, and she put her hand on my shoulder with tears rolling down because we both volunteered our time and she's like, Justin, if you would have just been an implement or just stayed doing that and didn't entertain this other thing. She's like, we actually could have written a check for a quarter million dollars and not had to spend any of this time. Like, that was so painful, Ryan. Like, I'm like, oh, I never want to have that happen in my life again. Those are the kinds of things that you experience when you're striving too hard for something that maybe you weren't designed for.
- [22:32]
Ryan Hogan
Yep.
- [22:33]
Ryan
I, like, I resonate with this so deeply. The like, to your point of like, just investing back and trying to multiply. So one thing that doesn't get publicized. I don't know if I've ever talked about this before, but my last company, Hunt a Killer, we grew and scaled very, very fast. And so we went from 0,55 million about four and a half years. What I don't share most of the time, outside of like, the accolades that have happened was the year that we hit 55 million, we lost 5 million. Like, the, we were pushing the organization so hard and we were investing so heavily back into growth and infrastructure and everything else. And people don't see that. Like, what, like, like the headline you just gave there of like a company that, that just scaled drastically to 5 million over a very short period of time. Like, people hear that and they just hear the top line. They don't hear about the blood, sweat, tears, the losses, the, like, what it takes to actually do that. I just, yeah, I resonate deeply with what, what you're talking about here.
- [23:32]
Justin Moss
I just, I just poured the gasoline on the ideas I had Rack the restoration that was up and scaling. It was starting to get profitable. Then I bought a franchise called Nutrition hq. My son was going to run that. It didn't work well for us because I'm not a retail guy, like, and I had zero capacity to learn retail, trusted my son to run it and we were just, we knew it was bleeding out when I bought it. So I thought, oh, good deal. We can solve problems. We can implement eos and we'll turn it around. Well, you do need a leader to have capacity to go solve those problems. And so that was a mistake. And at the exact same time I did that, I did this nonprofit fundraising challenge. And so two big events, the purchase of the one company, the idea of this big fundraiser. We gave a Corvette away. There were so many cool things about it. But at the end of the day, you know, you want to look at results and say, did we move the needle towards the target? And I'm like, man, I didn't move the needle towards the target. I burned out a ton of energy. I had to fire my entire team that was putting that project together because there was, there was no gas in my tank. And then I did. I'm the last guy that wants to go fire everybody because of a one failed small project. Justin. Can't you get over that? I was burnt. I was burnt. And so I'm just hoping not too many people see this podcast so that nobody knows
- [25:00]
Ryan
that I pay for that car. What? So, and this is like personal curiosity and, and also like I have this. I am really good at kind of the 0 to 1. And then I become a detriment to organizations. Like right after EOS implementation. Now granted, you know, with Talent harbor, we self implemented right out of the gate. And so like we already kind of had this going. But it's like once an organization is getting to a place of where we're starting to place leaders, like my fast mind and moving and breaking stuff just generally breaks the company. And so I've had this like, thought of like, well, maybe every two to three years I'll start a new company, help it get to product market fit, and then take a step back. Like was there an opportunity with, with some of these companies before sale, like just to place an integrator and, and get out of the day to day, or is that just theory and really hard in practice, we improve the company
- [25:57]
Justin Moss
year over year by 25%. The one that, that, that I sold, that was kind of failing. We made improvements. If I would have kept on that bandwagon, we would have solved the problems. I'm convinced of that. And yes, we maybe would have hired some people. But at the core of what I did is I, I, you know, I'm a faith based guy, Ryan. So when I have problems, I go to God with those problems. And I was whining and complaining like humans do. And I, I just, I just came to the realization that I needed to stop trying my own way of getting there. Like God's ideas are better than my ideas. And so I just need to say yes to his ideas. And it was his idea. He's the one that said, well, you said everything is hard and heavy. Why are. Where is it hard and heavy? And I was saying, well, I have this giving goal, Lord, I'm trying to, you know, honor you with that. And so I got these other businesses and one's winning, one's losing, and this fundraiser was a complete flop. And I'm just complaining. He's like, well, whose idea was the giving idea? And he says, well, where is it easy in light. And I was saying, well, Lord, when I'm coaching. So this is just an internal dialogue Justin Moss is having with God. And I just recognize that, whoa, I'm not doing what I think the reason why I'm on the planet to do. So stop doing that. That was basically the assumption that I pulled from him was like, well, if this is easy and light, Justin, why don't you do what I've gifted you to do and stop trying to do it your own way? And I'm like, okay, I give up, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stop. And it was literally that's how it happened. So some people would call that a clarity break. And that's totally fine, it's good. But, but trust me, I've got my journal and I take this baby with me everywhere. And there was lots of clarity as I'm whining and complaining and processing and looking at reality and looking at results and feeling burnt. And I mean, there had to be 100 data points. That was like telling me, duh, you're running too hard and you're running in the wrong direction or you're split your split attention. And so less is more. Take my own medicine that I teach my clients. I'm a 9 quick start visionary. I fall in love with my ideas like any other visionary. And the one thing that I will give credit to my mindset or myself is I've got a brand called success, loves discipline. And I knew don't let go of what you're really good at to do some other wild haired idea. So that's where I got burnt. As I was doing my unique given skills, implementing EOs, speaking, training, coaching, and I was doing all these other things and all those other things just was enough weight to be the straw that broke the camel's back for Justin. Then I'm like, I'm supposed to do this differently. So I surrendered all those things, gave up on the 10 year target and I'm recalibrating as we speak.
- [28:52]
Ryan
Interesting. I did Rodney Mueller put together an artist way cohort about a year or two ago. I think he's still like, he's doing these every three months now. And the biggest takeaway for me was journaling. And I had no idea how big of an impact that could have. And basically the whole premise was you just free write three pages every morning. And so I would wake up, you know, at 5:30 instead of 6, and I would spend 30 minutes just free writing. It was, it was a, it was game changer. Like getting head trash out before the day started was cra. And so it's interesting to hear that like a part of your breaks, your journal, your pen and it's, it's down on paper.
- [29:31]
Justin Moss
Ryan. I have probably 40 of these at one point in my life that, that was how I won the day. I was dialing in my agenda every day and I was tracking reality because that brand success loves discipline. I just talked about prior to, prior to 2000, what year would have it been? 2012. Massive procrastinator. So journaling and capturing and having an agenda and getting my thoughts out and seeing reality never was a thing for Justin. One ball of energy could never follow through. Just procrastinate like crazy. And a ball of energy just spinning out of control until 2012. And I finally got to the point where I've got, I've. I gotta get some traction in my life. And when you have a spouse that you've been married to for 16 years and she looks at you in the eyeballs with tears rolling down her eyes saying, I love you, but something has to change. And you're not the man I thought you'd be. You're not the husband I thought you'd be. You're not the father I thought you'd be. That's when you wake up and you know, you feel like your best friend just stabbed you from the front and, and you're super grateful because she's dead, right? And, and if you want to be the man, the husband, the father that your best friend thinks you should be and you agree with her, then you will start changing the way you think and the way you do. And I went on a massive mission in 2012. I didn't actually become an implementer until 2017, but the journey of Justin Moss kind of getting to where I'm at today, man, I've fallen in love with discipline. So part of that burnt out is I was unrelenting, committed to owning the few disciplines that was providing for my family, providing fuel, allowing me to have impact. I just layered on like multiple too many things to create a series of burnout that, you know, I've never, I've never been that burnt in my life.
- [31:28]
Ryan Hogan
All right, quick break, friends. Do you find it impossible to hire and retain top sales talent? Or worse, are you paying insane recruiter fees who are all using outdated hiring processes? Yeah, I was too at Hunt a Killer. We were spending hundreds of thousands on recruiter agency fees. And after I sold that company in
- [31:49]
Ryan
2025, I started Talent Harbor.
- [31:51]
Ryan Hogan
And the whole vision here was to make sales recruiting accessible to small and medium sized businesses. Because the organizations that can hire and retain world class people are the ones that ultimately win. Most organizations rely on things like ZipRecruiter or LinkedIn and they get hundreds if not thousands of resumes. But we find that the best salespeople are already perfectly placed somewhere else. And that's why our approach is to go after them. And we do that through a business model called recruiting as a service. We do not charge commission, we do not have success fees, we don't have contracts, we don't have long term engagements. And we become an extension of your team as expert sales recruiters. If you're tired of the same old recruiters and want to actually grow your sales team, check us out@talent harbor.com that's Talent Harbor. T A L E N T H A R B O R dot com. Let's get your next sales superstar hired.
- [32:51]
Ryan
What does discipline mean to you?
- [32:53]
Justin Moss
John Maxwell says the secret to your success is found in your daily agenda. And so when you think of a whole life success, it's not one discipline, but it's usually a handful of disciplines that if you own them, the turtle wins the race. It's the incremental daily commitment to a few of those core disciplines that will allow you to have the greatest impact that you desire in your life, whole life success. And so discipline is just that. Finding those. The reason why I say success loves discipline is I don't know, I don't know of someone that would say they, they're not interested in success. It's just that we define success differently. But what I do know is success loves discipline. So us humans, for us to have any of that success, that whole life fulfillment, that massive impact, the bank account, the abs, the whatever you deem success, there's a handful of disciplines that are tied to every one of those success buckets. And so discipline is your willingness to own that daily grind day in day out behind closed doors and you are unrelenting to just live your life that way. Jocko Willink, success equals freedom or discipline equals freedom. You know that those, those are all real. I think Zig Ziglar said something about motivation. People are making fun of him. You know, motivation doesn't really last. He goes, you know, I, I agree. He goes, I feel the same way about showers. You know, that's why I have to take showers daily. The discipline of feeding your mind the right stuff to get up every day doing the thing. The discipline of brushing your teeth, the discipline of working out, the discipline of putting the right food in your body. All of us know how to be healthy. Success like healthy. We just don't do what we know. Most people in their business, they know the things that their business should be doing, but they haven't fallen in love with the disciplines that actually will produce those sustainable results.
- [35:00]
Ryan
That's powerful. God, that's powerful. When, when you think about, because like a part of this is you talked about leading up to the, the burnout. It's like looking at the disciplines like your list was just too long. And so when you think about like the things that you value today or how that, that list has probably been cold a little bit and at the same time maybe reprioritized. Like what do your disciplines look like today?
- [35:28]
Justin Moss
So I have this, this model, this thing I was telling you about that I'm, I, I've been given a little green light to just a little bullet, little ping. I'm just firing bullets. I'm trying to live this stuff personally. So for me, I'm looking for whole life success. So again, everybody, everybody that's listening to this, you have to define success your own way. I'm not telling you what success is. I'm simply saying for Justin most, one of the disciplines is I've got to figure out hearing God. If I'm, if I'm a faith based person, you probably should spend time with God. So for me, one of my disciplines is, is how do I hear God? And then I'm looking at vision. So I have vision, health, relationships, my career, my calling. I have my money and I have my time. And now I'm looking at, well, what are all the disciplines that I need to own to live intentionally, Intentionally living day in and day out is going to produce a result in my life that's way better than unintentionally living. Unintentional living is not going to produce the results that you get excited about in your 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s. So intentional living is okay. What are the areas of my life where I want to freaking crush it? And that will be the same when I'm 50, 60, 70, or 80. Where do I want to win down the road? And so I'm crafting a vision right now, Ryan, that kind of incorporates all those major areas. And what I probably did to burn out is I indexed heavy on the career and the impact, and I sacrificed so many of these other key components that are core to Justin Moss living a whole, a life of whole success. Like, whole life success means intentionally factoring in thinking, journaling. Am I winning the relationship game? What relationships matter most? Am I winning in those areas? What about my health? I have friends that are in their 70s and, and they, they can't get on the ground and roll around with their grandkids or great grandkids. They don't have the health for that. And yet my dad, he's out last night at 75, cutting huge trees down and doing ridiculous things because he's, he's owned his health in a way that some people haven't. There's going to be. What does Jim Rohn say? There's one of two pains that we're all going to have in life. The pain of. The pain of regret or the pain of discipline. Regret weighs in tons of discipline weighs in ounces. Discipline is free to use, and excuses are free to give. Holy mother. What do you want? So you ask me, what are some of my disciplines? I'm crafting some disciplines around those key areas of my life that I'm going to suck at golf the rest of my life.
- [38:32]
Ryan
Ryan, I've thrown the bag. Yeah, I'm with you because it's not,
- [38:38]
Justin Moss
it's not connected to whole life success for Justin most. But being a better husband, being a father, and being a son to my mom and dad, those things matter to me. Those are relationships that are core. And so I'm looking at those areas of my life and I'm saying, well, what does a win look like? You have to clarify the win, and that better show up on a personal VTO somehow, somewhere. And so my career is going to be more right sized. My impact as a speaker, trainer, coach is going to be more right sized than like indexing all into that one area and, and not winning in some of these other areas. I don't know if that's answering your question, but that's my best answer.
- [39:20]
Ryan
It does. And like, when you, it sounds like you're almost thinking about this in like buckets now. And and when you think about it, it was like you were. When you. When you talk about over indexing, it's like one bucket was way too full and everything else was way too empty.
- [39:33]
Justin Moss
Yeah. And.
- [39:33]
Ryan
And the intentionality that you're speaking about is like, now. And it's to. To me, I don't hear you saying it's equal weight anymore. I hear you saying, like, you're. You are very intentional about looking at that bucket and seeing how much it should be filled and then kind of going. Going. Each one.
- [39:52]
Justin Moss
Yeah.
- [39:53]
Ryan
Is this like, how do you. In practice, how do you do this? Um, and. And I'm asking for very, very, very selfish reasons where it's like, you know, do you. Do you use a calendar and you color code stuff on calendars to make sure, or is it like you look at what you're doing for the day and you make sure that you're filling those? I've tried this so many times, and I feel like I keep defaulting back into, like, the professional and the career and the chase and all these different things. What sort of tactics are you using to, like, break those. Those types of patterns?
- [40:26]
Justin Moss
Number one, I'm giving Justin Moss a lot of grace to just evaluate and soak in life. What do I want? I'm talking to God about this. I'm talking to my wife. And we are recalibrating. We're recalibrating. So I am not gonna just go and dial in a whole bunch of things again and put myself right back into crazy mode. And so I'm giving myself some time. I'm evaluating it all. I. I'm trying to live these disciplines or practices that I'm talking about. And so eventually, I mean, right now what I'm doing is I'd rather take action today than have a perfect plan tomorrow. So I'm not letting that perfect plan stop me from owning some of the disciplines today. So here's a couple of disciplines I'm trying to own in my business. I want a certain number of session days, so I'm making sure I do enough biz, dev and marketing and serving my clients to where I have the right number of clients to do all the things I want to do. So that's in the career bucket. Right now. My wife and I are building out a vision, and we're recalibrating that vision to really help us get where we think we want to go. And one of the disciplines that my wife and I have because we're faith based is we want to pray together. And there was A time in my life where I asked my wife, this was 16 years in, we've been married 30 years now. I said, honey, what would be one thing that you just wish we'd do together? And you know what she told me? This is embarrassing, but she's like, I just wish we'd pray together. Holy mother. If we're faith based people, shouldn't we be doing that? And I could count on my hand how many times we intentionally beyond like praying for a meal, that we actually did that back 15 years ago. So this year we've got a goal which is a discipline that we want to spend a certain number of sessions, 30 minute sessions where we actually pray together. I think it's 15 or 30 minutes and we have a certain number we want to hit. So let's just call it weekly or bi weekly. We want to be intentional about that. That's helping me in that relationship component. We have a. We love. Jenny and I both are fitness, like junkies. We love fitness and challenges. And so I love hitting the gym. It's a stress reliever for me. So I, I'm not perfectly measuring that, but I'm checking the box that I'm trying to get in the gym five days a week or go work out five days a week. That's me. Some people are like, oh my gosh, just two, man. Two is good. Great that you got to figure out your health journey. So that's, that's a discipline that I'm owning. I. Clarity breaks. Taking time to think. I'm trying to take a clarity break once a week. That's, that's a discipline to help me stay centered. Because when I take clear break, it's not just about my business, it's about my whole life. So I'm able to kind of get high level, zoom out, out of body experience and look at my life saying, how you doing, man? Are you burning out? Are you aware of what's going on? Looking at my whole life, looking at time and money and career and all the stuff. So I'm, I feel like I'm, I'm more focused now than I think I've ever been. And I think I'm adding more value wherever Justin shows up now than I ever have. And so, you know, there's some, there's some value in introspection and giving yourself some grace and, and settling. So there's clarity Breaks are a discipline. I said number of session, days of discipline. One discipline that I'm, I'm working through. Gino hammers on this in his Book shine. And that is doing a daily agenda every day, the night before. And I have struggled with. I believe in this, and I have an agenda for the week every week. The agenda is laid out, but I haven't filled in some of the. Some of the extra spots. And so I'm giving myself grace right now, but I think there's room for me to be more intentional. And some of that is putting rest in there. And I suck at putting rest intentionally in my agenda. And so that's an area that I'm like, okay, I'm not going to beat myself up over this. There's no point in that. I'm trying to do my very best, but intentionally planning for rest is, I think, my next horizon.
- [44:41]
Ryan
I love that. What a transformation. And you're talking about this. You're not only able to allocate time, but you feel like the time that you're allocating is exponentially more valuable or effective now into these areas. And earlier you had talked about almost like the deletion, like, and it wasn't deleting, but it was selling businesses off. Stop doing this. So, like, have you felt that, that by stopping doing things, you've actually been able to move faster or better? Or, like, how do you. How do you reconcile that?
- [45:15]
Justin Moss
Have you ever talked to someone and you knew that they weren't fully there?
- [45:21]
Ryan
That's most people when they talk to me. And I'm not doing a podcast.
- [45:24]
Justin Moss
Yeah.
- [45:25]
Ryan
Yeah.
- [45:26]
Justin Moss
So I was doing so many session days and I was running so hard in these other businesses that I was. And I would say a lot of people didn't notice this, but I felt it. I noticed it. I knew there was more in the tank I could give someone, but because I'm just unable to. I was burnt. I didn't have extra juice to give them. Well, if I. I am giving more juice to every session today than I was a year and a half ago. Most of my clients don't know that because, you know, they were rating sessions really well and I was running hard. I'm always intense, but there's a level of depth that I think I'm attacking their business issues with that I. I didn't have capacity for when I was running so hard. There's a level of depth that I'm attacking my own life with where when I was running at breakneck speed with no capacity, feeling burnt, I kind of a gibbish. I didn't give a. Like, who cares? I don't got.
- [46:32]
Ryan
I got.
- [46:32]
Justin Moss
I don't got energy for that. I'VE got heart for that. I missed out on some meaningful conversations. Just does that make. I'm trying to make sense, but me being more fully present is adding more value wherever I go because I don't have so many commitments that need a little piece of me now. They're grabbing a piece of my heart here and a piece of my heart pretty much soon. I got nothing to give and I'm depleted, I'm empty. And so I'd rather delete the things out of my life so I can be fully here than allow all the things to delete me.
- [47:06]
Ryan
And if, if other folks don't understand and maybe it's just damage. Like for the last 60 days I've been going through some radical, maybe even 90 days, radical transformation and, and with that, like being present and what's been really interesting to me. So I, I have four kids total. Three kids are down here in LA. The oldest 21 year old, stayed in Seattle when, when we moved down here last year. And being more present, I've been in more tune with my kids. And what's been like almost kind of heartbreaking for me is I've been able, I've been able to identify like when I don't do the right things or when I say the wrong things because I'm more in tune to like their reaction or, or to like the subsequent, or the ripple effects or whatever it may be. And like I've been in this weird journey where now I. I've been thinking about like I've been not unplugged, but my mind has been elsewhere for the last 15 years. And like how many times did I do things, not even thinking without being in tune where like I didn't say the right things or do the right things. And it's not to say that I'm perfect because I'm still not doing it, but I know when I don't and then I can either address it or I have the ability to take action and then I didn't. So there's been some weird stuff that has been coming lately from like a being present that you're talking about.
- [48:22]
Justin Moss
Yeah, I'm, I'm. I mean, I've been a guy of massive action. And so doing, doing, doing, doing is a skill that I have. I'm a worker, I'm a grinder. I love helping people. So I'll go to bat for people every day of the week if they got issues. I want to be helpful. And so now I'm like, huh. By me having a little bit more time Capacity by me having a little bit more freedom. I'm actually going harder in session with clients. I'm actually making bigger moves with my family than maybe ever before. And it's not perfect. It is not perfect. Still learning. Still a hot mess over here. But I'm better with this hot mess than I was a year ago. That other hot mess was taking me out.
- [49:07]
Ryan
Yep, I feel you like in the. I didn't even know where I was a hot mess until, until I really kind of peeling back the onion. You talked a little bit about, about your unique abilities and, and how like this, this kind of transformation has really kind of focused you on like really leaning into your unique abilities. Did you just like wake up one day and journal and be like, these are my, these are my unique abilities? Like, how did you, how did you come to define your unique abilities?
- [49:38]
Justin Moss
You know, again, I bring my faith into this. Everybody has to figure out their own way of finding those. But I feel like when I was young, I had really impressed upon me that I, I was supposed to speak for God and never did. I feel like I'm supposed to be a pastor. Never did feel that. Still don't. But I'm like, okay, I'm going to take that nugget and I'm going to lean into that because if you're faith based, you want to be obedient. So I'm taking steps down this path and when a door opened for me to speak, I would do it. And I started to get kind of good at it. I got feedback, I got some pats on the back, I got some people commenting on, huh, you're, you're good at putting words together or you, you emote and I feel your passion and I, I resonate with that. And so I started doing more of it, but I never made it a career. And so I didn't really land on this until deep conviction in 2012 when I started my own leadership training company. And I said, you know what? I think I'm going to. I learned how to do Edward Jones, I learned how to do financial advising, I learned how to start a non profit with my brother. I learned how to do a few other things, but I've never fully committed to a skill set that I think that I'm passionate about, I think I'm good at. And I think I add a lot of value to people when I do it. And so I struck a chord. I went out on my own, starting that leadership training company in 2012. And that was my mental conviction, my, my commitment that I'm going to hone this skill of speaking, training, coaching. Let's see if I really am good at it. Will people actually pay me for leadership content? And so went and got certified with the John Maxwell team, started developing my own curriculum. And you know what? People started paying me. And locally, I hosted the, the largest leadership event in northern Indiana. I'd have 1500 people coming to my event, coming to my, you know, coming to the stage where I fill the stage with amazing speakers. John Maxwell, Chris McChesney from the four disciplines of execution, Eric Thomas, Darren Hardy from the Compound Effect. I mean, all kinds of big names across the country. And it was my event. And we've never had a leadership event that big in my region. And so you, you start taking steps towards where you think you have some skill. And we call it core focus, right? With eos, it's what you're deeply passionate about, what you think your superior skills are, what you think you can be best in the world at or best in the region at. And then an economic engine, does it pay the bills? And so I started honing in 2012, started testing. Is this really a unique ability? And I've never stopped growing in that area. I'm so freaking jacked about doing that today. And I've, I've, like, I'm a guy that gets bored easy. And since 2012, it's 2026 now I feel like I'm just getting started at learning how to communicate and learning how to add value and learning how to light the room up and learning how to be a great coach and implementer. It's still fun to me. And so I think, yes, there's lots of discipline and honing your craft, but I love it. I know I'm wired for it. I feel like it's a calling and so long answer. Go take some steps. Go test some of that deeply passionate about unique given skills. Like I'm. This is a, this is a, this is an area that I think I can be really good at. And, and it's a, it's a, it's a superior skill. Out of all the skills I have acquired in 51 years on planet Earth. This is something that I think I can really add value. And is it paying you money? There's a lot of people that have some skill, but it ain't paying them. Like, that's not what I would call a unique ability. It's not a. Not from a Jim Collins good to great mindset. It's got to provide the economic engine. Then you have those Three things combined. I think now you have your hedgehog concept, you have what your personal unique ability is and now you just hunker down and leverage that skill. Maxwell has a great line. Don't send your ducks to eagle school.
- [54:06]
Ryan
Yeah.
- [54:07]
Justin Moss
So what I think I felt is when I had those other businesses, I was a mallard duck. Nothing wrong with a male or duck, but a male or duck is not going to be an eagle. Don't ever try to make that. And so I, I have my unique skill set. I'm, I, I'm trying to become an eagle when it comes to speaking, training, coaching and, and I was outside of my, outside of my element doing things I probably shouldn't have been doing.
- [54:36]
Ryan
How'd you, how'd you know, how'd you know that, that you weren't? Hey, because like the businesses were growing, at least one of them, like, like some of the, at least the external validation signs would have been there saying like, hey, this, this is working. Like, how did you come to self discovery? Like maybe or I am the malware duck in, in this. Even with some proof points that, you know, there was some success.
- [55:04]
Justin Moss
All of the education I've been given before, my faith, my wife, all the people, the burnt out feeling, all of those things, the, the couple failures I had and then where I was really winning, where I was really winning is my unique ability. Everywhere else. I actually, it wasn't producing the kind of results that this easy and light work should be doing. Like, it's not easy and light. Like it's not hard. There's so much effort put in. But the kind of results I'm getting, being a speaker, trainer, coach, being an implementer, is exponentially more powerful in terms of results for my clients and results for Justin Most. Nothing else that I have been doing was producing those kind of results. There's data, yeah, it was successful, but not nearly as successful. I mean, yes, we grew 67% a year for seven years. The profitability on that, I mean, I can combine all seven years. That didn't equal last year's profit in my EOS practice. So return on time, return on dollar, return on effort. Not there.
- [56:17]
Ryan
Yep.
- [56:19]
Justin Moss
So I'm going to double down on my. John Maxwell says, don't let your weakness overshadow your strength. But he also says invest into your strengths, find where you're good and double down on those things. The problem is when you get good, you think you can maybe do other things and be just as good over there. And I've just, you know, got my butt Kicked enough times and got burnt out enough times where I'm like, huh, maybe I should stay in my lane, bro. Maybe I should stay in my lane.
- [56:48]
Ryan Hogan
Yeah.
- [56:49]
Justin Moss
And so that's, that's for me. Everyone else is going to find probably a different way. But trial and error is a great teacher. And when you get thumped on the head enough times with a ball peen hammer, you're like, huh, don't want, I don't want that again. I'd like to learn by watching you fail. But sometimes I have to learn by watching me fail.
- [57:06]
Ryan
Yeah, that, that one's going in the quote book. What? Last unscripted question then, then the last two just quick sign offs as a part of this like transformation. Are you redoing your vision board?
- [57:24]
Justin Moss
I'm going to redo the vision board. There's no question about that. I'm keeping that because I'm still inspired by those generous people. I, I still believe there is some type of rocket ship, but it's going to have a different outcome, maybe a different result. But I still am the guy that wants to like go beyond what I think is possible. That's still all. There's so much value in this to me still. But you know, on that vision board are some targets that are hidden that nobody can see. So I'm going to change some of that and I might change a little bit more. But yes, the long answer or short answer. I'm going to have a new vision board and it's going to go somewhere else on one of these walls. But this is going to be an awesome reminder for me of this is this still matters and it's a great teacher of. Hey, remember when you picked the target that wasn't in your sweet spot?
- [58:16]
Ryan
When you get the new vision board, let's do a part two of this and just dive deep into. Because this transformation, it's almost like I want to talk to you in five years and see what transpired along this journey and along this change.
- [58:31]
Justin Moss
I take that challenge. This would be fun. The compound effect of a human just trying to stay more dialed in and making those incremental improvements over time. Boy, I hope, I hope we have ridiculous results in five years from this level of focus.
- [58:47]
Ryan
And I don't think you have to do much hoping. I mean you are insanely disciplined and I think the transformations and where you're just me, just an outsider, I think there's going to be magic and fireworks here.
- [59:00]
Justin Moss
I hope I'll take that. Yes, I'm with you.
- [59:03]
Ryan
We didn't even get much into. We'll do a part two anyhow for the EOS journey. So you are an expert EOS implementer, which barely scratched the surface on that. What. What do you look for in clients? Do you stay regionally focused? Like, what. What does a great client look like for you?
- [59:21]
Justin Moss
I gotta love them. I. My wife even said this to me. I'm trying to get more local clients. I want clients to come to me because I don't want to be on the road and traveling. But my wife said something. She goes, you know, Justin, if you have a local client that sucks the life out of you, she goes, you're miserable and it's a drag on your life. She goes, it's good. When you find a client that you love like that you want to go to that you want to go to bat for. When you love the people in that room, it's so. It's less about the type of business or the niche I'm agnostic to. It's like, do I love these people? Am I freaking jacked about where they're trying to go? Then sign me up to help them master these tools, to help them gain massive traction. Like, that's when I'm in a room with people that I want to go to, when I want to go to bat for that. I want to help them break through their ceilings, and I want to help them own their pain and get real and raw. Then I love serving those teams. So they come in all different shapes and forms. I mean, I've got teams that are, you know, 1500 people big, and I've got teams that are 10 people big. But one common denominator. I love the people in the room.
- [60:30]
Ryan
Love it. Love it. All right, Someone just listened to this and they're like, I want. I want to jump on the Justin train here. What is the easiest or best way for them to get a hold of you?
- [60:40]
Justin Moss
You can reach out to me. Justin Mossos Worldwide. That's my email address. I'm on LinkedIn. I don't know my LinkedIn handle, but, Justin, most. If you see a face that looks like this, you'll find me.
- [60:53]
Ryan
I love it, Justin. Thank you. So you did not disappoint. I knew that this was going to be full of energy. I had no idea which path we were going to take. But there were just so many nuggets catching you at a period in your life where you're, like, going through this. And we were able to, like, in real time extract the lessons that you're learning. And I'm sure it's going to help other people if nobody else is going to help me. So I appreciate you, brother.
- [61:22]
Justin Moss
I hope that this was valuable in some way because that's the only reason I spent the time. I'm like, I heard enough about you, Ryan. And I'm like, if I can be helpful to Ryan, I'm willing to give an hour. And I hope if. If someone's listening, I hope there is value added to you, too.
- [61:37]
Ryan
Love it. Awesome. Thanks again, Justin. I appreciate the time.
- [61:40]
Justin Moss
We'll see you.