S2E56 | EOS Worldwide Means Worldwide with Living Proof Wayne Smith

Summary

Confessions of an Implementer – S2E56

“EOS Worldwide Means Worldwide with Living Proof Wayne Smith”
Date: June 25, 2026
Host: Ryan Hogan (Talent Harbor)
Guest: Wayne Smith, EOS Implementer

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Episode Overview

This conversation with Wayne Smith explores Wayne's unique global journey—beginning in corporate leadership with multinational companies and culminating in his transformation into a premier EOS Implementer. Wayne shares his cross-cultural experiences, pivotal leadership lessons learned from auditing and running international businesses, and his passionate adoption of EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System). The episode dives into challenges and triumphs of implementing EOS in diverse environments—from Hawaii to Southeast Asia—showcasing the adaptability and impact of the EOS model beyond U.S. borders.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Wayne's Global Path: From Cement to EOS

• Early Career:
  Wayne started in supply chain management with Lafarge (a French multinational cement company), leading teams and operations in over 40 countries, including France, China, Malaysia, and the U.S.
• Leadership Progression:
  Wayne’s career evolved from managing terminals to leading internal audit for emerging markets. This required recruiting and mentoring multinational teams (up to several thousand people).
• Commitment to Growth:
  “I’ve always been in charge of helping develop people and that’s really what got me excited.” (04:53, Wayne)

Memorable Quote

“You go to Harvard Business School and then you go right into a pile of cement. That’s cool.” (03:15, Wayne)

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2. Lessons in Cross-Cultural Leadership

• Managing Diverse Teams:
  Wayne recounted leading multicultural auditing teams (from Nigeria, India, China, etc.) and learning to bridge expectations—for instance, the contrast between command-driven and creative approaches in China vs. France (06:39).
• Building Team Cohesion:
  The “mission” approach—immersive, real-world team audits in challenging locales—helped with self-selection and adaptation to high-performing expectations.

Notable Insight

“We can’t change people. They have to be willing to change themselves.” (09:10, Wayne)

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3. Business Auditing, M&A, and the Human Factor

• The Auditor’s Dilemma:
  Teams on the ground often saw them as unwelcome watchdogs, but Wayne prioritized relationship-building with country leadership to make audits value-driven, not punitive (15:40–16:38).
• Strategy in Action:
  Led major sell-offs and IPO efforts in China, often serving as the "grim reaper" for business units during divestitures. Emphasized communicating honestly and providing clear incentives for key players during M&A transitions.

Memorable Quote

“When a Fortune 300 company says we’re leaving what everyone perceives as the biggest market on the planet, where we lose more money every day than we’ll ever make…” (22:28, Wayne)

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4. Talent Identification as a Superpower

• Slow to Hire, Honest in Expectation:
  Wayne advocated for patience in talent acquisition, favoring empty seats over rapid, incorrect hires, and always emphasizing hard truths in interviews.
• Fractional and Interim Talent:
  Normalizing interim/fractional hires to clarify needs (18:49), ensuring the best cultural and operational fit long-term.

Key Quote

“I would rather have an empty seat than a seat filled poorly.” (18:49, Wayne)

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5. Entrepreneurial Journey & EOS Discovery

• From Corporate to Entrepreneur:
  After years in multinational leadership, Wayne transitioned to running and then selling smaller businesses in the UK and Hawaii, seeking to "get closer to the customer and where business is done" (30:37–31:21).
• EOS Epiphany:
  A private equity partner handed him a copy of Traction. Implementing EOS in their PE portfolio during the pandemic, he immediately recognized its transformative power and pivoted to become an implementer.

Quote Highlight

“Where the heck has this been my whole life? I would have been so much more successful if I had this book in my hands.” (31:53, Wayne, on reading Traction)

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6. Implementing EOS in Hawaii and Beyond

• Launching During the Pandemic:
  Wayne grew his practice virtually and via word-of-mouth in an isolated, locked-down Hawaii; his first client was a prior vendor who quickly bought in after reading the EOS book (34:34–35:34).
• Scaling Across Borders:
  Moved family and practice to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, to support his wife’s career and extend EOS into Southeast Asia, maintaining a blend of virtual and in-person clients worldwide.

Notable Stat

“Just word of mouth…got up to I think 24 clients at one point.” (35:38, Wayne)

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7. EOS Challenges: Universal and Cultural Differences

• Common Barriers:
  • Skepticism due to “flavor of the month” initiatives
  • Leadership team turnover post-implementation (up to 70 clients, only 2 retained the whole team after 12 months)
  • Resistance to structure, especially in collectivist cultures
  • Difficulty reducing oversized leadership teams, sometimes as large as 17–15 people, down to the core 3–7 required for EOS (44:03–45:13)
• Asian Market Insights:
  • Sidebars and "saving face" are significant factors.
  • Building trust often takes more time in some cultures.
  • Secondary leadership teams or operating committees are a frequent local adaptation.

Notable Quote

“If she doesn’t really get into the process and trust her colleagues, she’s not going to last. No matter how much knowledge she has.” (42:26, Wayne on resistant leaders)

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8. Graduation & Ongoing Facilitation

• On Graduation:
  Wayne follows EOS methodology—clients should be able to “graduate” after two years but values ongoing objective facilitation, likening it to having “outside eyes” (48:31).
• Client Retention:
  His first client is still active after six years, indicating that long-term external facilitation is sometimes preferred.

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9. Working with Wayne: Criteria and Philosophy

• Client Profile:
  • Open, honest, coachable leadership teams
  • Desire for excellence in human energy management and team strength over industry specifics
  • Willingness to work virtually or meet in SE Asia (within 5–6 hours of Kuala Lumpur)
• Contact:
  • LinkedIn: Wayne Smith EOS Implementer
  • Email: [e-mail]

Final Insight

“Help first—our number one core value. And that’s what we do.” (37:50, Wayne)

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Human Nature & Leadership:
  “We are all fragile humans.” (05:08, Wayne)

• Auditor Reputation:
  “‘Oh God, here they come. Can we reschedule?’...But I tried to make it a win-win for them.” (15:40–16:38, Wayne)

• The Impact of EOS During the Pandemic:
  “We were crushing the competition because we still met, we still had a rhythm, we still had a scorecard, we knew what we were doing.” (33:38, Wayne)

• Advice for Leaders in M&A:
  “Once it’s past the letter of intent...get the few key people in a room. Can we give them some sort of equity rollover, or a performance bonus, or a longevity bonus at the end?” (25:33, Wayne)

• Why Wayne Chooses Dirty Industries:
  “I just like the action...You can feel the impact more than when it’s in a spreadsheet or a PowerPoint presentation.” (31:21, Wayne)

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Key Segments & Timestamps

• Wayne’s career journey: 01:08–04:53
• Cross-cultural team building: 06:39–09:20
• Experiential training in audit teams: 09:20–10:36
• Leading major M&A transactions in China: 21:21–24:12
• Talent hiring strategies: 18:16–19:58
• Transition to EOS implementer: 31:53–34:13
• Challenges of EOS implementation in Asia: 39:59–45:13
• On saving face and leadership structure in Asia: 45:13–47:15
• Philosophy on client graduation and facilitation: 47:48–49:30
• Wayne's client criteria and how to reach him: 50:04–51:35

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Takeaways

Wayne Smith brings a rare, global perspective on leading, hiring, and transforming teams in complex, multicultural environments. His journey from international corporate leadership to EOS implementer—especially through tumultuous times like the pandemic—demonstrates resilience, practical wisdom, and the universal applicability of EOS. The conversation offers actionable insights on talent strategy, change management, and why sometimes the best "system" boils down to understanding human nature, everywhere in the world.

Transcript

[A]

Said, hey guys, this has been fun in the PE world and I really enjoy it. I want to be an EOS coach. And I became the first EOS implementer based in Honolulu. That was in 2020, in the middle of COVID right, you quit a PE backed CEO job, give back all your shares, put the chips on the table and think, nah, I'm going to do, I'm going to build my own thing here in this little island that's completely land, you know, water locked and we don't let anybody in or out right now.

[B]

Welcome to Confessions of an Implementer. I'm your host, Ryan Hogan. We share unique stories of EOS implementers and the companies they've transformed to give you a rare glimpse into the successes and challenges of the system in action. Let's jump in. I don't know if it's the green room or what it's really called, but I almost asked you the question of like, where in the world are you? And then I stopped short of that because I felt like that was almost a better opener for this because I feel like this is going to be the common theme. So, Wayne, one, thank you for, for coming on and two, where, where are you headquartered right now? Where are you based?

[A]

Yeah, thanks Ryan. Good to see you. Good question. I am in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, which is my home base these days. That's full time home. But I do travel a bit, as you'll probably learn for my U.S. life.

[B]

Yeah. So let's, let's jump right into it. Like how, how did this all start for you? I remember during our, our pre call maybe about a month ago, like what, what blew my mind is you were like, wife, like I'm here and, and then was Malaysia one of the stops as well? Yeah, it was Malaysia, Philippines. It like all started after business school in Miami. But like how did you become this, this world traveler?

[A]

Yeah, so you know, I'm a little bit odd for an eosi and that I did the corporate thing. So I grew up in a family of entrepreneurs who were like, whatever you do, do not have a business. Right. So, okay. Program, go to college. And then I did, I went after business school, I went to a place where a company where I thought, hey, I can travel the world. And that was part of our deal. And I worked for a cement company of all sexy things. And that took me all through the US but also Paris, Kuala Lumpur, Beijing, back to Paris and 40 or so countries in between. So yeah, my life has always been pretty global since then.

[B]

What, what did you start out as. Because I think the really interesting kind of topic or theme here is going to be like the uniqueness of the cultures as you've, as you've gone through kind of this expat experience with the cement company. What was, what was the name of it again, by the way?

[A]

It was called Lafarge. It doesn't exist anymore. Like any big companies, a French multinational.

[B]

Got it. Lafarge. When you started there, what was your position? And then, and then. Did that evolve over time?

[A]

Yeah, it did. So I'm kind of a jack of all trades. I started in supply chain managing cement terminals. So I mentioned my entrepreneurial background. My parents, they were in the swimming pool business. So I'm used to growing up in the dirt with muddy boots. And that's where I went straight back to, you know, you go to Harvard Business School and then you go right into a pile of cement. So that's cool. So I did supply chain. Supply chain in Detroit, of all places, the home of EOS Worldwide long before I knew it was there. I did marketing strategy. At one point I was leading strategy for all of Asia. You know, several billion dollar business, 50 odd business units. I made, you know, kind of full circle and. But what took me overseas, Ryan, actually was, you know, I had this HR guy, he promised me if I did anything he wanted for four years, he'd send me overseas. And he showed up in my office one day and he said, wayne, I've got this perfect opportunity for you. And I was like, this is amazing. This is gonna be so good. He's like, we want you to lead internal audit for the emerging world. And I was like, what? And we want you to do it from Kuala Lumpur. And I was like, where is that? Like, I'm thinking, okay, those two towers, I know them. And I asked him, dave, you trying to let me go, like, that's cool. We can be honest with each other. It's like, no, this is an amazing opportunity. And it was amazing. And I came to KL Kola and kind of within a couple of days met the lady who's now been my wife for many years. And we've had a cool journey around the world. So that's where it started.

[B]

As you were going through this process, were you, were you leading teams at all? Or were you more like coming in, looking at strategy and then getting out of the way?

[A]

No, leading team. So that's been a theme even before business school. Just kind of always managed. From the time I worked in an ice cream shop running it, you know, at age 15 for the boss all the way through. So teams up to several thousand at one point, you know, different businesses. So I've always been in charge of helping develop people and that's really what got me excited. More so than running the actual business, to be honest, was the.

[B]

Just because I can't help myself on, on this one because you talked about the ice cream shop at 15 and I'm sure you had like a small staff running around like what's, what's one thing that you wish you could have told your 15 year old self back then as you were managing the ice cream shop.

[A]

Yeah, just look at the human dynamics because we're all as, as our mutual friend JBS says, we are all fragile humans and everything about that. Right. I, I manage like a 30 year old guy. Him, he hated working for me, of course, and that was a theme for a lot of my career. Just look at how are people working together or not working together because that's the key that fits it all even in the U.S. right. Just getting that right team assembled, which I did not have at Larry's Ice Cream in Fort Lauderdale, Florida at all.

[B]

Is Larry's Ice Cream still around, by the way?

[A]

No, it's not, it's not. The owner, Paul, closed it down. I probably did such a crap job that it didn't, didn't make money.

[B]

Oh, that's a shame. So as you're, as you're leading teams and, and you're an expat and you're going to different countries and implementing different things, like what is, what is that? Like the, the only experience I have with that would be on the Navy side. And for me, like we've done joint operations, joint exercises, stuff like that. And, and I would say like that's more, that's more peer to peer and so it's more like integration and coordination and things like that, but, but less from a leadership and management. And so there's, there's definitely certain nuances of, of influence and, and like understanding kind of other cultures, how they operate. What was that like for you in a leadership position going overseas and like what are some things that were maybe challenging about that?

[A]

Yeah, great question. So I'm, you know, American through and through. Right. Born, raised at, all my education. So going from Atlanta, Georgia, which was my last posting in the States, to Kuala Lumpur, literally halfway around the world. And my mandate, Ryan, was to build a team that could be the talent pipeline for our company. So internal audit was a way in and I was recruiting people from Nigeria, India, Indonesia, Korea, Japan, China, and bringing them together in a team that also needed to perform. And I'm sure I made so many mistakes, but just getting down to the fundamentals of, you know, we're all human, we need to. We have certain needs that need to be met, you know, from a leadership and management style. And those are different. Right. So if you come from China, you're expecting, at least at that stage, you know, sweeping generalization. Please give me my marching orders. Let me know what to do, boss. And you're like, well, I'd like you to be, you know, think creatively about this assignment and that we had to work on what that meant. Whereas, say, for my French colleagues, it was actually, let's be a little less creative and follow the process a little bit more. Right. You're trying to meld these. These teams. And for me, it was really foundational for what came after. It was the best sort of experiment I could have had. And even for today. Right. Just understanding how teams sit together, how they fit together, and knowing that, again, we're all fragile humans underneath. But the way that we express that, communicate, want to be communicated with, maybe

[B]

different across cultures, there's this, I'll say, a growing trend or a trend that's coming back. So there was, there was a time where, you know, people that were transitioning from the military, they were in very high demand. And then we went through this weird period where I think there was like, a lack of communication of, like, how do you translate those skills to these skills? And right now it seems to be coming back. And so there's a lot of even search firms out there that are placing operators into, like, GM roles and CEO roles and things like that. And what you just said about, about some of the cultures that you've dealt with is like, either the. Tell me what to do or, or like, I don't, you know, I don't really think creatively. Like, just follow the process. And that. That reminds me very much of, like, a military indoctrinated person. And. And so, like, my question would be, and I think this, especially as people continue to go down this path, like, how did you change that? How. How did you start to, I don't want to say rewire, because that. That people don't. I don't necessarily need to be rewired. But. But how did you help them kind of break that traditional mindset and come in with, like, this is what we need to do and. And this is what we're going to do together?

[A]

Yeah. In that particular assignment, which was three years. And we recruited over 30 people from 15 different countries speaking so many different languages. It was very experiential. You know, I could teach you, we could have our training sessions. But basically it was almost like a military operation in that we would prepare for an audit and then we would put a team of three people together, always from three different countries, and send them to Poland or to Ivory coast or to, you know, Indonesia or somewhere. And they needed to work together for 21 straight days. There were no days off and you know, form, norm, storm, all that stuff at once. And so it was experiential running. It was just, hey, let's get in there and figure it out. So what we started doing, what we learned is, you know, before you come into this department, we're going to take you on a test mission. We always called them missions French style. And we would give them, you know, five weeks, come in, learn it, spend time with us. Is this fit for you? And if not that's okay, then of course we pay them. And I think the test and learn is super critical because that's the only way you're going to know whether it's going to fit for you and whether you want to adjust. Because we can't change people. They have to be willing to change themselves. Do they want to do that? And by and large it was successful and it was amazing. And they all went on to do incredible things after which I'm super proud of.

[B]

That's actually super interesting because that's like, that's like something tactical, like getting someone into kind of a test environment. Were, were there opportunities to mentor, teach, influence, or was it strictly a test of like pass fail? We're going to see if this works.

[A]

Yeah. And so having spent 10 years in a French company, there you live in the land of gray. There's really no black and white. And so it wasn't really pass fail. And we often left it up to the individual. You know, this is, this is who we are. This is our crazy band of people who travel the world and you're going to do it for three years. Can you see yourself doing this? And if they said yes, then let's go. Right. And there were some things they need to do. Were there people we had to part ways with occasionally? Yes, because they just couldn't fit it. But yeah, it. I think that self selection is super powerful once they've seen it because then that's their identity. Right. And we all try to live in our identity. I'm an internal auditor, I travel the world with this group of people and they deliver.

[B]

That almost goes back to the want it. So the GWC get it, want it, have the capability. It's like you put them through it self selection, the experiential part of it. Now they've experienced what it's going to be and they can say like do I want this or not?

[A]

Absolutely. And then when you do, you're in.

[B]

And what did, just out of curiosity, like what were you training these people to do?

[A]

Yeah, so in our world internal audit was like internal consulting. And being a Fortune 300 company, we had a lot of requirements. We were listed in multiple stock exchanges so we had a lot of requirements and we were going in and looking at all the operating processes of every business and the critical ones that have been identified by the board of directors and then coming back to the board with reports on what you know, is anybody stealing cement along the way? Are there issues with safety? Safety or do we have trouble with accounting and reporting numbers really top to bottom. So it was like getting a mini MBA for all of us. I think I led teams in 30 something countries and you can see how people are doing business and who's above board and who isn't. So we were training them on all that. So if you came into our team we'd say Ryan, hey, we know this is your background. However we'd like you to work on financial reporting and internal control. So in the next five days you need to get up to speed on what to look for when we get to Russia. And you'd do it and you know you'd have 12 opportunities to do that over three years.

[B]

What year was this by the way? Just out of curiosity.

[A]

Yeah, this was 8 to 11, 2008 to 2011, post Enron, all that stuff.

[B]

Yeah, now it's making sense. Like when you think about, when you think about a SWOT analysis, I think there are a lot of, there are a lot of people that consider like the geopolitical climates a threat as far as like it's ever changing. And obviously today it's, it's like it's, it's not changing like yearly anymore. It's like it's changing daily and things are just moving very, very, very fast. As you were going through this and like dealing with it, there's, there's the human aspect and then there's also kind of the business aspect. Were there different things from like a geopolitical things that were influencing anything or did you have to like understand all of those local markets to, to be able to make sure. That you were in compliance.

[A]

Yeah, I'd say 80. 20. So 80. 80 would be the standard pieces that you would see in any business. And 20% will be the local. And we needed to come in and be somewhat understanding. But if you've ever been audited, the level of understanding and empathy generally is pretty low. So we tried to be a bit higher. But we were there to protect people from going to jail. Right. We were there to protect them from losing their jobs. So 80% standard. But we also needed to understand, you know, if we're in Qatar, there's a way that people are doing business in Qatar, and maybe our processes aren't perfect and we need to adapt as long as it's not creating risk. So geopolitically, there wasn't too much at that stage other than wars in, say, Syria, where we did have assets. You know, I have been, you know, to some places that are probably not on your. I'm sure you have as well, not on your, hey, bucket list, let's go to these countries, because that's going to be amazing. You know, we weren't there, so that was geopolitical risk. But what was big at that time is the bird flu, sars. And so we were constantly looking at the effect of a pandemic. And of course, you know, 12 years later came a really big one. And so, yeah, had that company been around, we probably would have ready. Would have been ready for it. We were always looking at the effect of a pandemic. Huh.

[B]

And when you think about the auditors and going in, like, you. You brought up this. This notion of, like, consultants. When I think of auditors, it's got this ring to it where it's like, oh, gosh, somebody's coming to, like, look at all the things that I'm doing wrong. When. When you were sending the troops out into the field and you were doing these things, like, were people looking and saying, hey, here come our friends here to keep us out of jail and make sure we're. Or were they like, oh, God, here they come?

[A]

Oh, God, here they come. Can we reschedule? Do you have to be here? Do you realize it's a public holiday? Do you know, oh, my gosh, our cfo, she's got pneumonia. And you're like, we're coming. You know, we planted a year. We plan on a year in advance. And, you know, our marching orders came from the board, but nobody saw us as their friend. But that is the human piece, right? So as a mission leader, which I manage the team, and Also led some missions. I would sit with you as the country CEO and say, look, you know this is going to happen, right? And they're asking me to look at your supply chain. They're asking me to look at these two other elements. What do you want to get out of this? What do you feel about the business? Where do you want us to dig? And by building that relationship, he'd be like, you know what, actually I'm a little bit worried about marketing. Can you look at our marketing processes and can you also have a look at this great try to make it a win win for them. I mean, does it mean they love you, but at least they're getting something they value out of it versus you just being the corporate watchdog, which I always hated.

[B]

So what like the, the experience that you got from doing these audits and looking in, looking at all parts or all facets of the business, sounds like you've got this deep background in supply chain. Like and now you're, you're an EOS implementer. I don't want to take us too far into that conversation yet because I think there's a lot of like, really interesting things that we can get into there. But specifically with like the skill sets that you built through this experience, like what, how has that either evolved or changed? Like how you step into a business and kind of the first things that, that you're looking at or that you're paying attention to.

[A]

You know, I had a chance to lead several businesses after that and what I learned is patience. I mean, unless there is, I was never really brought into a turnaround situation. That's completely different. Same in eos. We don't really do turnarounds is come in and have patience, observe. Right? What's the market? How are we approaching it? Is this a good business or not? If so, do I have the right people here at the table to help me get there? You know, what's the next three years look like? It was always a three year assignment, right? So you're planning in your head, how am I going to leave this better than I found it. And you have that cycle of time and you have patience looking at the people. And one thing that I feel that I've been so fortunate at, probably because I sucked at it in the ice cream world, is really good at identifying talent. You know, I think I've been able to excel in my career because just finding the right people to put around me and recognizing that I don't want to be the smartest person in the room ever. Because I was generally the youngest person in the room and that brought a certain stigma. So how do I find the wise ladies and men to make this happen?

[B]

What a beautiful topic of talent and finding the right person and what an incredible superpower to have based upon, like, businesses, simply the organization of humans. I see people hire all the time and I, I, I was one of those. And I, I'd hire the wrong person or I get, you know, I get it wrong or I bring someone in that wasn't like, at the right level because they were too far up at the, at an organization that was already too large. They didn't know what they were doing when they came down to, to our size. How did you hone that craft? And like, what's some of your, your secret sauce that goes into that?

[A]

Yeah, I, I don't know if it's, well, I don't know if it's a secret sauce, but I never wanted to be in a hurry. Right. I would rather have an empty seat than a seat filled poorly. And even back, I don't know because I started leading Companies in the UK maybe 12 or so years ago. Fractional and interim people was totally normal. I said, you know what, let's get somebody for six months. Let's figure out what we really want and then we can scope it and find the right person. So probably that patience was really helpful. And then I believe aligning expectations is very kind. It may not be nice. Despite how much I smile, I'm very willing to have difficult conversations even in the interview stage. Like, Ryan, you sure you really want this? Like, this? This job is hard, man. You're going to be away from your family three nights a week. I'm going to be down your neck. We've got a huge growth goal. Are you sure? Don't come to me in six months and say you don't want it. And I guess maybe the unselling, which is what we do in the US as well, unselling a lot, being patient and being willing to be raw and real with people. I don't know. I'm not a visionary type, right? So visionary types are like, just fill it, let's go. I'm like, well, hold on, let's get the right person.

[B]

How do you balance that? Because when you see an organization and they've got this empty seat and they're like, if we just had that seat, we would add, let's say it's a sales seat, be like, we would just have X amount more of revenue. Like, we just need, you know, A body in that seat. And you and I both know, like, no, you don't. You need the, the right person in that seat. So someone that might be struggling with, with finding the right person or a visionary, that's just like, fill it and fill it now. How do you start to kind of counteract that if they hadn't experienced the pain yet of like, putting the wrong people in the wrong seats?

[A]

Yeah. It's probably back to that theme of experiential. Right. So we, as we are teachers, facilitators, and coaches in my eos world. I'm, I'm not a consultant. I'll never tell a client what to do, but I'll experience and then they can make a decision. You know, if it's super important and they really want to put someone in the seat, they're going to do it. But let's see how that went after. And it usually doesn't work very well. You don't need to fall on that twice. Share experiences. Also, I love connecting my clients with other clients. Like, hey, you know, you should talk to Sarah because she did this like two years ago and she's still fixing that whole, you know, bag of snakes. Maybe you should talk to her.

[B]

I like that. Okay, we'll come back to the EOS part, but when. So the audit after that, you said you went on to go run some companies.

[A]

Yeah, I did. So. So after that, I became head of strategy in China, which I do not speak Mandarin. We were the large. One of the largest foreign companies in China. And I moved to Beijing with, you know, newly married, brought my wife there, and that was a challenge in 2011. But what I quickly learned, Ryan, is that that was, can you please sell all of our businesses? And that became a real challenge. It wasn't a growth mode. It was, hey, we need to get out of most of this and de risk it. So that was not a fun job, but I had a very large strategy team. So we were trying to IPO one part of our business and sell the rest of it. And then that was. That was hard. I was the axeman, the grim reaper. When I showed up, you still didn't like me. I was the auditor. Now I'm the guy selling your business.

[B]

Oh, God, you just can't win. Every time you, every time you went back to Beijing, they were like, oh, God, here we go, here we go again.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

When you were running these businesses and, and it sounds like there was a bit of a sell off and then trying to take one public, like, was that, was that Were you leading the entire strategy for that?

[A]

Partnered with our headquarters in Paris. So my boss actually wasn't in China, my boss was in Paris. And so we were doing that together. And at one point it got dicey enough that we actually moved to Paris to kind of leave that situation because it wasn't healthy and then working more with corporate cause that's a pretty big decision. When a Fortune 300 company says we're leaving what everyone perceives as the biggest market on the planet, where we lose more money every day than we'll ever make.

[B]

When you're walking into a situation like that and obviously you're going to need buying because I almost think about that. I mean it is, it's M and A activity. It's like sell off these businesses, try and take this one public. And so now you're, you know, I think about that when, when I was selling Hunt a killer and, and like, you know, how do you get buy in? Who do you tell what to? So the day you show up, I mean, how do you, how do you start to I guess cool the nerves and get like the team focused and behind the strategy that you've put in place?

[A]

Yeah, I mean there's certain amounts of it that you don't share and there are some that you do. Right. And there are certain people that you bring into the circle. And our method was, you know, letting them know they were safe and rewarded when this is successful because that activity doesn't happen overnight, which a lot of people don't realize. The business just didn't get sold. It's taken 12, 18, 24 months of negotiation, especially in the case of being in China. And so we had to have some people, some of the key team leaders, it was cement plant leaders who were willing to participate and they're accepting a certain level of uncertainty that afterwards they're not sure where they'll be. We had to make it attractive for them, but we didn't tell everyone because that would be, it'd be hard to keep everyone motivated.

[B]

The level of certainty. So let's say there's a US based company and it's a small to medium sized business, they're going through something similar as far as they're going to go out to market and take it. And, and the CEO sits down with the, call it the senior leadership team because we know there's going to be some sort of interview process or something that comes along with the actual M and A activity. Right. The full M and A process. What should those business leaders like, both like what. And how should those business leaders. It promised things like, how can they structure things where it's like, okay, like, I'll give you an example real quick. And apologies to keep going back to the military. There are, there are many times in the military where, where we're like, hey, this is what we're doing. We're going down, downrange. We're going to do xyz, like, prepare yourself. Ready, break. And then none of that happens. And everybody's like, well, he didn't know what was going on. Like, and at the end of the day, it's like we, we don't have control over that. And I kind of translate that to the M and A activity, but which is like, when you go through a process, what happens the minute that all that paperwork is signed is like, beyond you? So what and how sorts of guarantees and promises could a leader here make to their team as they're running some

[A]

sort of transaction process on the sell side? Right? So, like in your Honda Killer case, I think once it starts to be more than just a dream, you know, once it's past the letter of intent, the loi, once the due diligence is done, you're like, okay, this ship is sailing. It's the same. It's the same thing. Get the few key people in a room. Hopefully you've negotiated with the buyer. But, hey, we need to keep Ryan, we need to keep Wayne. These are the five key people that are make four key people that are making things happen. Can we give them some sort of either rollover in their equity? Can we give them a performance bonus or a longevity bonus at the end? That's super helpful to keep them on side because you can't false promise and say, I know exactly what's going to happen. But, hey, these are the new parents of this baby and we'd like you to stay with it. It's super helpful. And then to the extent that you can share the strategy of the buyer, if the buyer is a friendly, which you hope it's a friendly, say, hey, this is what they plan. This is the why behind the what. This is great news. They love you. And what we've done so much. If it's true, in our case, it's an SMEs, it's usually true. And this is what they plan to do with it. Now, if it's a private equity buyer, that's a whole different conversation. If it's a friendly buyer, you know, just. Just bring those few people in because you need them to put out the Positive noise into the business or otherwise. The negativity will fill in.

[B]

All right, quick break, friends. Do you find it impossible to hire and retain top sales talent? Or worse, are you paying insane revenue recruiter fees who were all using outdated hiring processes? Yeah, I was too. At Hunt a Killer, we were spending hundreds of thousands on recruiter agency fees. And after I sold that company in 2025, I started Talent Harbor. And the whole vision here was to make sales recruiting accessible to small and medium sized businesses. Because the organizations that can hire and retain world class people are the ones that ultimately win. Most organizations rely on things like ZipRecruiter or LinkedIn and they get hundreds if not thousands of resumes. But we find that the best salespeople are already perfectly placed somewhere else. And that's why our approach is to go after them. And we do that through a business model called recruiting as a service. We do not charge commissions, we do not have success fees, we don't have contracts, we, we don't have long term engagements. And we become an extension of your team as expert sales recruiters. If you're tired of the same old recruiters and want to actually grow your sales team, check us out@talent Harbor.com. that's Talent Harbor. T A L E N T H A R B O R dot com. Let's get your next sales superstar hired. Okay, so you rent, you went and ran that business. Did you run any other businesses or was that it? And you're like, you know what, what? I've heard of this thing called eos and I'm just gonna, I'm gonna go join.

[A]

No, so I did, I moved to the, to the uk. I left that cement business. Eventually I could see the right, you know, when you're tasked with selling all the assets, you, you kind of understand which way the ship is going. And I moved to the UK and ran a couple of different businesses. One was power generator rentals, like 1 megawatt powering cities, probably some of the military camps you've been to. Military was a massive client of ours. It's a British company. And I was in charge of developing Africa and the Middle east. And that was great. So build businesses in Algeria and Tunisia and Nigeria and run those from London. And then I moved into other equipment rental which is scissor lift and boom lift working at height. And another UK Middle east business that I ran and grew that one, that One was around $200 million and 1300 people. And then that business was sold. I think I may be on bad luck when we sold that business that I. I took a different turn and moved to Hawaii and private equity and discovered us.

[B]

Interesting. Is there just a common theme? Was it like the pool stuff growing up and you're like, I always want to be in construction. So it was like pools to cement to generators.

[A]

You know, it may be, you know, maybe I'm just not. Not posh and cool enough to do something fancy. But I've always been on muddy job sites almost my whole life. And even when I moved to Hawaii, I was in a property restoration business. So after, after property I've been in flood or a fire, we were remediating that and rebuilding it. So always kind of like, I guess, muddy dirty industries.

[B]

It's so interesting because, like, I also feel like those are the industries that are insulated the most from things that are out there. AI I mean, obviously not rising costs and tariffs and things like that, but you know, when you think about innovation and like what technology is doing and it's like upending entire industries, it feels like the industries that are most insulated are the ones where you get dirty and there's real work that has to get done. Any intentionality behind that or it was just like, well, that's where we landed.

[A]

I think it's where we landed kind of the next best step and looking for something that I could do where I could add value. And each of those companies got smaller and smaller, from several billion to 1 billion to 200 million to that 25 million. That was the more intentionality of I want to get closer and closer to the customer, closer and closer to where business is done less and less in an office. That was probably more intentional. And the golden thread was I've always been in these kinds of industries.

[B]

Interesting. And I understand wanting to be closer. Like that was taking you further and further towards the entrepreneurial path. Like, was that a. Why did you want to get closer to the customer and. And kind of go into a different. A different segment of the market?

[A]

I just like the action. Right. I don't want to push paper and make PowerPoints. I like the action. I like to see where the decisions are made to work with my team, make customers happy. You can feel the impact more than, you know when it's in a spreadsheet or a PowerPoint presentation. I just went that direction. I don't regret it at all. It was super fun. Super, super fun.

[B]

That's awesome. Okay, so it was, it was at the last stop and you were in Hawaii. And. And how did you, how did you discover E.O.S.

[A]

yeah, so I took, I took what, you know, I took an adult gap year when my daughter was three. So when our company was sold in the uk, we took a year off. But as I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do, I thought, I always want to retire in Hawaii. And my wife was like, well, let's just go there now. So we found some contacts and talked to a private equity firm, to two guys in Honolulu who had a small PE firm. They said, hey, we've got an opening. And I flew out, interviewed. I don't know if it was an interview or they're like, hey, you'll take the job. Great. And when I was leaving, one of the partners, his name is Chris, handed me a copy of Traction. He's like, hey, we're going to do this here, okay? And I read it on the plane back to, from Honolulu, back to Kuala Lumpur, the whole thing. And I thought, where the heck has this been my whole life? I would have been so much more successful if I had had this book in my hands. And so when I landed a few months later, we implemented eos across all the portfolio companies, self implemented, then got some help. And I loved it so much that, you know, after a period of time I said, hey guys, this has been fun in the PE world and I really enjoy it, but I want to be an EOS coach. And I became the, the first EOS implementer based in Honolulu. And that was in 2020, in the middle of COVID right? You quit a PE backed CEO job, give back all your shares, put the chips on the table and say, no, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna build my own thing here in this little island that's completely lamb, you know, waterlocked. And we don't let anybody in or out right now. So that shows. Yeah, I don't know if that's it, bravery or, I don't know, craziness.

[B]

Was it when you decided to depart from the PE firm? Was it actually during the pandemic or was it right before the pandemic?

[A]

It was during the pandemic. Yeah, it was during the pandemic. And, you know, luckily we had EOS in place. We were running it in all of our companies. You know, we're having our weekly level 10s. We were on work from home. So Hawaii was very strict about work from home. And we were crushing the competition because we still met, we still had a rhythm, we still had a scorecard, we knew what we were doing. We had set rocks before all this happened. And I Thought this is so powerful and more people need to know about it. So I did it in the pandemic, mask wearing and all, as required by the local government.

[B]

And so what, like, so you came up like truly through the hard knock lifestyle of business development. You know, there's a lot in today's environment, it's like, hey, I just became an EOS implementer. I'm going to go to these local networking events, I'm going to meet some people. Like, how do you, how do you do those things when everything is shut down?

[A]

Yeah, it was such a bad plan, but it seemed to work. And you know, I just called people I knew. I'd only been in Hawaii for a couple of years. I shared what it was. I joined some virtual networking groups that were happening and these masterminds, because none of us could get out of our house and just share what I was doing. And then my very first client, who is still a client by the way, I love them so much, I dropped by. They were, I was their client. They're a safety consulting firm. I was their client. And I went and saw the owner, Tracy, and I said, hey, here's a book. I'm doing this thing. I think it's awesome. She read it in a week later, she's like, we've got to do this. And she became my first client pretty quickly. Took a while to get number two and three, of course, but just word of mouth, you know, Hawaii is a small place. I wanted to make sure we provided a five star service that I over delivered for every client. And there was a bit of a hunger for it and just started amassing bit by bit and got up to I think 24 clients at one point.

[B]

Just in Honolulu.

[A]

Yeah. And a couple on like Big Island.

[B]

That's pretty incredible because I think the, the other part to the story has been you've just been kind of traveling the globe and all across Asia implementing eos. And so at what point, so you took this during the pandemic, you got a client, then you got a few more and like now it's, it's just on fire. You've got 25 clients. What made you say to yourself, you know what, let's take this the rest of the distance all the way to Asia.

[A]

Yeah. So my wife has been, you know, chief household chief mommy officer for so many years. And our daughter started getting older and she said, I think I'd like to start working again. So we explored it and she decided, hey, going back to Malaysia would be ideal for her. And it Was, you know, we love Hawaii. I can see I'm still, you know, got my Christmas aloha shirt on, still loving Hawaii. But we decided to make the move and we took a year to plan it out and we've been here now since the middle of 20, 24 and 18 months. I'm building my practice here and still serving 10, between 9 and 11 depending on the quarter. Great clients in Hawaii and we have some great implementers in Hawaii now who are able to serve the local market and the growth there.

[B]

Interesting. And then what took you even further? Like how did you start getting clients even outside of your local market where you're at today?

[A]

Yeah, that's been a bit of a challenge. EOS worldwide helps a little bit. The brand is still becoming known. You know, connections try to connect through eo. We do have some great implementers throughout Southeast Asia. There's a handful of us trying to leverage that network and then just meeting people and trying to reach out through things like LinkedIn and show up in the right places. It's a slow, slow grind as it was in Hawaii, but I'm confident now that it'll keep picking up. And we have three focus days scheduled for January for two teams from Hong Kong and one from Jakarta, which is great. So it's just kind of consistency, compounds, right. So just be consistent, just show up. Help first. Our number one core value. Help first. And that's what we do.

[B]

So I just joined you. I've been a part of Vistage now for the last like seven years. It was life changing for me. It was an incredible experience. Experience sitting around with CEOs that have been there, done that. And between that and EOs, like both of those things were the ones that completely changed the trajectory. Like my first company actually bankrupted and then fast forward four years later, I was very lucky to have found another rocket ship or find product market fit pretty quick. And so the first thing I did, joined a Vistage group. Second thing of all people, it was Dan Wallace that came through my Vistage group. Like now I know who Dan Wallace is then I didn't, I was like, oh, here's this amazing guest speaker for my Vistage this quarter. But I just joined DO as well. So like literally just joined a few weeks ago and they, they've said like, they've said the, the Asian markets and even specifically where you're at, like it's, it's a very big deal.

[A]

It is a big deal. It is a big deal. And they usually have their annual meeting for the region Here in Kuala Lumpur, there are some EOS implementers who are really heavily involved in EO and they contribute. I think Mike Peyton even came out and did a talk two or three years ago there. It is a big deal and it's growing very rapidly and I always recommend my clients, hey, if you're in that right space, you need the three things. You need an operating system, a coach and a peer group. I'm your operating system. Let's get you a coach and get you a peer group. And EO is a great one.

[B]

That's awesome. So you've been doing this for a bit and you've grown very fast and so you have implemented this quite a few times. What are some of the things that you see consistently of when a company's coming? Let's say they're not self implementing and so the only exposure they have is they've read a book, they've said this looks really cool, they go out and get someone like you. Like, what are some of the common challenges in the early days that, that you see that are consistent across the companies that you've, you've helped?

[A]

Yeah, it's just that often visionaries have this flavor of the month. They'll read a book, they'll find a program, they'll come back to their business and want to do it. And the team gets a little numb to it. And I'd say 8 out of 10 times they're a bit numb to that thing. I'm that thing that shows up, so I need to show up in a very authentic way. I'm not here to sell you anything. This is what it is. And they'll roll their eyes at first, but that resistance sometimes can be really strong. And when we implement eos, I'm not sure how it was in your business, but usually a couple of the leadership team members will end up changing in the first six months because they're just not on board with the way it goes. Once we unplug them and plug in, people who GWC get it, want the capacity to do is a rocket ship, as you said. So that's usually it. They're a little numb. The other one is kind of, they're allergic to structure. But we, we all do all these things and you're like, oh, okay, we gotta unwind this web, especially here, because in Asia, you know, there is a real focus on being efficient around cost and we're trying to get the most out of everything and everyone we can. And when you bring an eos, it's a little bit Foreign about specializing in certain things and having good process and not everyone doing everything all the time. That's pretty hard.

[B]

Yeah. Have you not to scare folks that may be listening and thinking about implementing or some of the core function leaders. Have you ever implemented EOS? And after 12 months, the same team that you started with is still the team that's coming to the sessions

[A]

out of 70 something, maybe twice. And by the way, sometimes it's not people departing. The team might be getting bigger. We might say, oh gosh, we actually need this leader. So it's not always, you know, gloom and doom, but to be honest, it's good for the other person too. Right. If that's not their home and they're not going to fit, there's a great place for them somewhere else. As Mark o' Donnell always tells us, it's just maybe it's not here. So it does happen.

[B]

What are some of those things that you see? Like are there like key indicators or observations that you're making in the room where you just kind of know? And maybe it's not like the gwc, maybe it's something else on that people analyzer, but are there some things that like you're identifying early on and if so, what are they?

[A]

Yeah, I mean one of them is always. And you've read Gita grip maybe, right? So I think that the CFO lady, right, arms crossed, leaning back and you're like, okay, we're going to try to warm her up, but if she doesn't warm up over time and those arms don't come down and she doesn't kind of just really get into the process and trust her colleagues, she's not going to last. Right. No matter how much knowledge she has and know where everything is in the box. So that, that turning away from the people who are talking to you, which is far more common than you would think, like, hey, you want to join the conversation, you know, politely invite you. And some people are just resistant. That's not going to work. You can see that really early on. And then the folks who everyone thinks is a super high performer because they know where all the stuff is buried, when we start realizing that's all they really know and they're not actually great at their job, the company's outgrown them, that becomes hard. And you might want to keep them and put them in a different role, but you can see that pretty early on. I think those are the few main ones. And sometimes actually it's the visionary too who wants to be dictating like you're here to help me dictate everything. Well, we're here because it's an egalitarian system and we're all fighting for the greater good at the table. And that means you too, Mrs. Visionary or Mr. Visionary. And that can be challenging.

[B]

Is building that trust any different? Like out in, in where you're at versus like your clients in Hawaii? Do you see, like, the dynamics are different or is it, is it kind of the same?

[A]

I see that for the teams that I've been blessed to work with, it's a bit different. And it takes more. Takes more time. It takes more time. You know, we don't need the meeting before the meeting, we don't need the meeting after the meeting. We don't need the meeting sidebar. This is the meeting. And that's a hard concept sometimes. And it's cultural, Right? And the team that you're referencing was a team I work with in Vietnam. They're just amazing people doing amazing things. But they did want 17 people at the table. We're gonna need 20 hours to do this session if we have 17 people at the table. And you know, in the end they weren't willing to do that. Right. And that's okay. But that's not how we operate. So it is challenging. And some cultures are very collective. They want to work together, together. And they have a hard time actually to identify those key three to seven people who are in charge of the key functions. And we need to work heavily on that. I was just having one of those conversations earlier this week, helping an amazing visionary decide. His leadership team currently is 15, I'd call it a management team. We're going to do a focus day, who really should be there. And we got down to five. And that was powerful for him. Now he has to tell.

[B]

Nice. Like when you think of like the sidebars and the pre meetings and the post meetings, is that like a, is that a byproduct or a factor of like time efficiency? And it's like we don't want to have these conversations in front of everybody because everybody's not there. Or is it like these are the only two subject matter experts that should be like having any part of the decision making process for these problems. What generally do you see there?

[A]

I think it happens for a couple of reasons. Probably the second one, right? So you and I know, and then we're going to tell everyone, okay, maybe. And then it really is just, you know, they're having, they're having these sidebars because the folks in the Room can't. Are not really qualified to make the decisions. Right. And they just want to tell them and help them save face. I don't want to. Saving face is quite a concept here, which is we don't want to embarrass anybody. And if we ask you not to attend this meeting, you're going to feel embarrassed in front of your team. And they'll say, why aren't you, Wayne? Why aren't you in this leadership team meeting? Do I need to listen to you or not? And the saving face is a big part of it that I've experienced anyway here in Southeast Asia. Maybe a little different. Other areas.

[B]

Yeah. Have you found ways to kind of work around that, like set up a secondary SLT? I think Amazon has that. The 2Lt and the 1Lt. And you kind of work your way up the leadership teams.

[A]

It's pretty common here, you know, kind of an operating committee or something like that. And say, great, okay, if you want them to meet, we can. And then I'll help them with the OS rollout. It makes things a bit slower in my opinion. But I have a couple of teams who are that way that have that second tier and the first tier still participates in the second tier. It just gets wider and, you know, it slows things down. But it helps them, I guess, to preserve the culture that they're trying. And we are here to help people get what they want from their business. Right. It's not me to say this is what you want, you need it. It's how do I help you get there. And if it's helping you grow, prepare to hand over your business. Then we'll do it. A little nuances. We have to shift here in the US in the region.

[B]

Yeah, that. That makes sense. And you said. Did you. Did I hear you correctly earlier when you said your, your first client is still a client today?

[A]

They are, they are. They could graduate if they want to, but, you know, we love each other too much, I think. And I've seen them, you know, grow through so many amazing things. And we still. We have their 6th annual coming up in January in Honolulu. So they're ready to go. They're prepared to go, but not ready to go, if that makes sense. And I'm happy to keep working with them as long as they want to.

[B]

Hopefully this isn't injecting any bias. I always had this thing where, like I get the graduation, like the graduation is like we have, we have mastered these tools to the degree in which like, we can self teach and we can we can work it internally, but I always like when I look at truly the value of bringing an EOSI into the room, for me it was like an outside set of eyes that's like able to identify things that everybody is so in the day to day or able to facilitate conversations because you're an expert at reading the room and starting to bring people in. What's kind of your philosophy with the graduation?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I follow the EOS methodology, which is at the end of two years, you should be ready to graduate. It's your choice if you want to or not. Having been on the other side of the table and self implemented, the best day was when somebody showed up and I didn't have to prepare the meeting. I could sit there and be focused on my team and on the growth and somebody else was running it. And I tell people that. And whether it's me or whether we find you another coach who can bring a different perspective for a few years, I think it's good to have a third party facilitator. That's just my bias. And I'm the fourth EOSI for one company, I'm the third EOSI for another and the second for another. And it was kind of like that. And I'll probably pass them off to someone else, get some different perspective and, you know, maybe pay a lower fee, you know, so that, that's my. I agree with you, Ryan. They're ready to graduate. That's my job, that's my duty. But I'm here to serve you. If it still makes sense.

[B]

Love it. Okay, so what do you look for in clients? And, and also, not just, not just like attributes or industry or things like that, but also like, how far do you travel? And what I'm trying to get a sense of, of here is for anybody that's listening, making sure that if they're like, oh, I, I want Wayne to come and help us, and they're, they're in Miami where, where you grew up. You're like, hey, listen, I love you guys and I love Miami, but I'm not, I'm not flying all the way there just for a session. What do you look for clients and where do you look? Or what do you look for and where do you look for clients?

[A]

Yeah. Thank you for asking. So at the moment I, I developed a skill of virtual sessions because I started in Covid, So my first 100 sessions, first 99 sessions were all done virtually. And so I'm happy to work with, I work with several virtual teams who are spread around the globe as long as they're willing to work in a decent time zone. That's one and second, I travel anywhere here in the region, which I'm starting a couple teams in Hong Kong, Jakarta, you know, if you're in, if you're in Southeast Asia, if you're within five or six hours of Kuala Lumpur, I'm happy to help you and if not, we can find you, find you the right person here in the region. But that's really where I'm focused in terms of building now and then the attributes that I look for. Just open, honest, willing to grow, happy to be coached and really want to build an excellent leadership team. Because in the end that's what we're here to do, managing human energy, get that right team in place. I think that's, that's about it for me. I'm very simple, sweet.

[B]

And then so someone just listened to all that and they're like, oh, virtual. So I can still, I can still get them even if I'm in Miami. If somebody's like, I got to get a hold of Wayne, what's the best way they can get a hold of you?

[A]

You can find me on LinkedIn, Wayne Smith EOS implementer or something like that. I'm sure you'll find me or my EOS email. We all have the same style. So Wayne W A Y N E Smith S m I t hos worldwide.com and one of my awesome team members or myself will pick it up and have a chat with you. And even if you just have some questions, I love helping. Just get in touch and I'll help answer some questions for you.

[B]

Love it. One last question. What time is it where you're at right now?

[A]

Yeah, you were super kind and I didn't have to do this in the middle of the night. It is 8:55 in the morning tomorrow. So this is Thursday the 11th. Welcome to the future. All looks good.

[B]

Back to the future. There we go. If you could give me some stock tips, let me know what's going to happen in 11 hours. Awesome. Well Wayne, thank you so much for, for taking the time to come on and, and talk about your experience. Like I, I just think both upon our first conversation where we talked about this and this one, like the things that you've seen, experienced, explored, you just have like so much perspective like cross culturally auditing inside of businesses and, and then all sizes of businesses because you started with much larger businesses and then you were like, you know what, what? Like I'd like to be kind of closer to the action. So I just wanted to thank you for. For taking an hour early morning for you to come on and. And share your journey.

[A]

Thank you for the opportunity. I'm glad we got a chance to do it and appreciate it. I can do anything for you. Let me know. Always happy to help.