← Confessions of an Implementer
Confessions of an Implementer
S2E61 | Do Your Core Values Create Clarity or Complexity? with Andrea Schlapia
00:55:26
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- [00:00]
A
Think about core values as your DNA. Like, what do you want to live and breathe by? You're hiring, firing, rewarding, and recognizing people on those core values. And if everybody has different, like, am I measuring this group on these core or these core complexity is what holds businesses back.
- [00:22]
B
Welcome to Confessions of an Implementer. I'm your host, Ryan Hogan. We share unique stories of EOS implementers and the companies they've transformed to give you a rare glimpse into the successes and challenges of the system in action. Let's jump in. Also, by the way, if I could just say, is that the board behind your head that I saw last time? And I was like, that thing looks amazing. Vibe board.
- [00:45]
A
Yeah, like, look, it turns into all, like, it's a giant iPad. That's all it is.
- [00:51]
B
It's wild, fantastic. I've got this gigantic whiteboard, but every time, every time it fills up, I have to delete it. Everything off of. So then I've got like an iPhone full of pictures that were on it. But you, you can just store the stuff.
- [01:03]
A
That's exactly right. And I can turn them into PDFs, and I can write on my iPad and like, share it there, share it on my computer, share it on my phone. It's crazy.
- [01:13]
B
I love it. And we're, we're actually going to get into some of that because one of the, the interesting things that I think you and I connected on in our, in our pre call was you do a lot of virtual sessions, and I think there's some really interesting nuances that will help kind of when people are thinking through, like, does my implementer need to be here? Do they not? I definitely want to get into some of the nuances on that before we get into that fun stuff. You've got a really interesting background and you kind of came up the, like, financial management space. So where, where did that all start for you?
- [01:46]
A
I started out, you know, I, I graduated from a private Christian college. And when I graduated, you know, somebody from my church said, hey, do you want to come work at the bank? And I'm like, I looked at my watch and like, sure. What else do I have to do? My mom was super proud that, like, we spent a bunch of private, you know, school money and then I became a data entry person at the bank. So that was an awesome realization for the gutterball kid that she thought she had. But, but all of that to say that was the foundation. And I just had the opportunity from a mentor to sit in a lot of different seats, seats at the bank and I ended up sitting in the financial advisory seat, and I fell in love with that because of what it was able to do for my clientele to take care of them from a wealth management perspective, help them to see the path forward of, like, you're going to have peace of mind that you're going to have the money that you need to have in retirement. And part of why that's important to me is, you know, my dad passed away when I was six. He was killed by a drunk driver. Obviously very shocking for our family. And my mom was out there with no one to help from a financial standpoint. And that's why the money piece became super important to me to, like, understand it, how to navigate it, what do I need to know? Because I saw my mom struggle with that aspect of it and, like, figuring it out. And I grew up on a farm and we never had to leave. And I was. Had a very, you know, wonderful upbringing. And, like, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Right? But I say all of that, like, that's why financial advisory became important to me, was that. And then my mentor gave me the opportunity to start training financial advisors. That came in the door and that literally sparked my passion because I love teaching, I love coaching, I love helping and supporting. And we could go down the, you know, road of working genius, and I could explain all of that and how that fits. But that fueled my passion to say, if I can help other financial advisory businesses and firms to be really great in their space, then I'm actually helping even more people than if I was just the financial advisor. I can help the whole entire community and landscape of that to recognize people like my mom that didn't have a lot of help navigating a financial conversation and understanding how to manage that and manage what little you have or a lot you have. Either way, it was helping people to run their businesses better around wealth management space.
- [04:27]
B
I love that. And one of the things you said in there is like, it's almost like impact at scale. Like, you know, you started with the financial management and learning and understanding, and you were helping individuals. And then you got into this, this, like, coaching position where you were able to help quite a few. And then like today you're helping firms and shops actually optimize their business and help them out. So it's like the impact that you were making on an individual, now that's like exponential.
- [04:54]
A
That's right. And that feels fantastic to have, like, at least a grain of salt worth of impact. If I can leave something better than When I first came in the door, that is my absolute goal. I can make it better. By the time I leave, then I have done my job. And the reason I'm on this earth
- [05:13]
B
when I think of, like financial managers, is it how much of it is the understanding, the actual management of the wealth and being able to place things in the right buckets and diversification and then how much of it is business development and the sales aspect?
- [05:29]
A
I will say it's even beyond both of those. It's the relationship and it's the connection with the human being. Obviously you have to be technically versed and educated to be able to put together a financial plan and the wealth management and all of those things, all of those are critical. And from a growth perspective, obviously if you're going to build a business, you have to have that growth component. But yet, guess what is the underlining of all of that? It's the humans. We have to have the connection with the human in order to do both of those things really, really well.
- [06:07]
B
And when you were coaching, whether it's. Whether it's the coaching that you do today or the coaching that you were doing as you were kind of coming up the ranks, were there like specific attributes that you saw and you could immediately identify, like, this person's going to excel or this person's not.
- [06:21]
A
Everybody asks the question, when they darken our doorstep and consider working together with us, they're like, what are the measures? And again, I'm speaking, you know, financial advisor, wealth management, like, how much Aum do you have to have in order to work with us? Like, what's the revenue? I said, you know what? More importantly than those numbers, do you care about running a really great business? Do you care about practice management? And if you care about leading, managing and holding other people accountable and having a really clear vision and taking away the complexity of your business, that's who we want to work with.
- [06:56]
B
I like that. And like, what are some of the things. And I'm sure you've seen this in all different aspects. Whether it was like coaching individuals or even what you do today, which is like helping shops. What are some of the immediate problems that when you come in, you're like, yep, I know this is going to be an issue already before I even walk through the door.
- [07:18]
A
Guess what? Again, it's back to the humans. Like getting the right people in the right seats and clarity of the role and responsibility and who is accountable for what, and having clarity. Clarity and one vision. Do we even know what that is? It's way Too much in somebody's head. A business owner has it, they're clear in their own mind and never communicate that out. So I'm not sure if I even want to be on this bus or not because I don't know where the bus is going. So it's the lack of clarity, lack of vision, communicated vision. Not that there's lack of or it doesn't exist, but it exists in somebody's head. And the bigger you are, the more critical that is to get your whole leadership team on the same page, obviously, and then communicating that through the rest of the organization. So all that human energy is going in one direction. So it's still, it's, you know, Ryan, it's still back to the humans role, responsibility, right people, right seats, clear vision. Where are we going? Who's leading, managing and holding other people accountable.
- [08:22]
B
And like, what's really interesting, you talked about this, this idea of like clear and effective communication. And it sounds like in order for this to work, like someone can understand where they're this enterprise or core focused niche, all of these different things. What are some best practices that you've seen for this idea of being able to communicate from the top all the way to the bottom and making sure that everybody truly understands why that organization exists.
- [08:48]
A
It's ultimately, where do you even want to go? What is the culture and the behavior that you want to replicate time after time with other people that you're going to bring in? And I think those are just two of the biggest things that are missing or not communicated, I should say. And, you know, just getting on that path, taking the time, I can't stress this enough, taking the time to work on the business and not just in it. I literally just was with an advisory team and it's three business owners that are merging and coming together. And it is not clear of like, are we following your vision or your vision or like, what's the new vision of coming together? And that's the piece of it is we got to slow down. Organizational health is like the number one competitive advantage. I am a Patrick Lencioni five dysfunctions of a team working genius die hard believer in all of that. Because if you don't have organizational health,
- [09:52]
B
you don't have anything that's such an interesting thing of bringing organizations together. And I don't know much about the financial management space. I'm assuming that quite a few times, much like in professional service space or a business service space, like there's a lot of consolidation, there's a lot of mergers of smaller Shops to make a larger shop. Like, what are some. When you start to think through, like, hey, we got to get these three organizations that probably have different cultures, different, maybe different core values. They all do the same thing generally. Like, what are, what are some things that you think through when you're like, we. We got to be effective in pulling these things together?
- [10:36]
A
Well, you actually named two of them. I mean, it's the core values. Think about core values as your DNA. Like, what do you want to live and breathe by? You're hiring, firing, rewarding, and recognizing people on those core values. And if everybody has different, like, am I measuring this group on these core or these core. And ideally, it's like anywhere from three to seven core values. Again, complexity is what holds businesses back, regardless of industry. In my humble opinion, complexity is what holds businesses back from reaching their potential. Let's keep it simple. Again, core values being, you know, three to seven core values. What are we living and breathing by? Because now, again, you can hire, fire, reward, and recognize people on those core values. What are core values really do for you? It's the behavior that you want people to live and breathe by. Because guess what? Behavior creates culture. So, and it's, it's. And there's a statistic from Korn Fairy out there. It's 70% of business owners believe that culture is absolutely critical, but yet they don't know how to get there. So if, I mean, if it's that important that, that slow down. It's. It's. What are those behaviors that you want? And you can feel it when you walk into any kind of business or location, right? Like, you can just feel in the air of whatever that culture is of, like, if it's crickets, if it's, you know, if there's somebody's, if there's anger, you can, you can just feel what it is. So that's what I. Why those core values are so critical, because it helps create the behavior, the positive behavior that you want people to live and breathe by.
- [12:16]
B
Especially when I think of a merger, acquisition, or consolidation, I think what I hear you saying is that the first thing that's going to happen is, like, there has to be alignment on. So if they're. Let's just say they were all running on EOs. Probably not the case. But let's say they all had, like, clearly defined their core values. There's a good possibility that. Let's say they're all at the max. 7 times 3, 21. There's a pretty good idea or pretty good chance that they're not the same seven. And that there's, there's now a lot. And so a part of that is like redoing the core values and looking across the organizations and who do we want to be? What's a, what's a second step to that? So, or like the best second step, meaning they just went through the exercise. Let's say they, they ran the EOS process where, where, you know, you close your eyes and you think about some of the, your rock stars that are in your organization and go through the whole keep, kill, combine exercise. What's, what's the best second step?
- [13:11]
A
To not roll them out past the leadership team. Because what if you change your mind? Let's like, let's think about this is let them marinate. If you've gone from 21 and now you've got the best possible outcome among that merger acquisition group together, how about we just let them sit for the next 90 days? If we're living in our 90 day world, right? Like, let's work with those and keep those in the leadership team. This is what I see so many times they're like, check core values are done. Let's roll them out. And they roll them out and then guess what happens. Oh, well, we changed our mind on this one. Or that's not really the one that we, that's not what we meant it to be. That's so I cannot stress. Don't roll it out. Let it marinate for 90 days, come back together as the leadership team and say, are these really true? Can you see these flowing through the entire company? Can we utilize these in our people analyzer? Remember, what our people analyzer is correlated to is the core values. So do you live and breathe by that core value? If it's humbly confident, all the time is a plus. Sometimes it's plus minus. Minus is never. Like, yeah, that, that one really works. Again, keeping it simple too. I was just with a team two days ago and they had on their Vision traction organizer, their VTO, like 15 core values. I'm like, really? Like, really? How did one. How did this happen? Like, this wasn't on my watch. Like, how did this happen? And do you even remember all of these? Like, no. Like I couldn't without. If I covered that up and took the paper away from them, most of the leadership team could not recite their core values.
- [14:57]
B
And that's. So I've been in the Navy now for the last 24 years and there's a lot of things from the Navy that I would look at and be like, that's bureaucratic and that's, you know, that's the old way of doing business. And the more that, like, I've grown and matured, I've realized so many things that they got right that I got wrong. So, for instance, I can tell you off the top of my head without even thinking about it, honor, courage, commitment. Honor, courage, commitment. Those are the three core values of the United States Navy. And I don't even know the last time they changed. And it's like ingrained in you since day one. And what I like to like, talk about and think about is like, if the United States Navy, one of the US Military in general, like one of the biggest entities in the world, if they can get by with three core values, then like, you know, why can't your $5 million business?
- [15:43]
A
That's right. Exactly. And that's why I say complexity is the killer of all potential. So I, and I lovingly say to, to business owners and team and leadership team members of, like, you're not the unique snowflake that you think that you are. You're just not. Like, let's keep this as simple as possible. And if you, you know, if you have to make a word out of it, lots of teams, like, I have one that spells the word dream. I don't remember what they are. But, like, there's a reason behind what all of the core values are and it makes it simple for other people to digest. And I can't stress enough. Core values are not marketing words for the wall or the website. I mean, they can be if you want it to be eventually. But I think that's the biggest misunderstanding of core values, of people start thinking about marketing. And it's, this is not about marketing. This is the behavior you want humans to live and breathe by so that it's wash, rinse and repeat of all of these. And you hire, fire, reward and recognize around those core values.
- [16:50]
B
Yes. Don't tell any other EOS implementers. So we changed the name of core values to core behaviors. And that was the correlation that we saw was like, when everybody thinks of core values, immediately they think to what's on the wall. And there's that old adage of like, Enron, like Enron had integrity and all these other things on their wall, and it was the complete opposite. And so I agree with you there. And one other thing, so it's interesting because the question that I asked earlier about the first step after there's some sort of M and A activity or something, and you're trying to reestablish the core values of the holistic enterprise. Such a great take on stop, don't do anything, sit on it, marinate on it. Is that your same advice when you're bringing eos into a new organization and they have just developed their core values?
- [17:45]
A
Absolutely, 100%. And rollout is different for every single business. My encouragement, if you're considering eos, regardless of what industry is, if you as the leadership team don't understand the foundational tools and can't teach them. So think about like, you may have absorbed them, but can you turn around and teach them? And you don't have to teach them to a mastery level, but if you can't explain them and like what the concept and the foundational understanding of those core and foundational, I should say, tools are, then rollout's not, it's not time for rollout yet. Like this. There's not a let's roll out in 90 days after we've done this, or 6 months or 12 months. I'm like, I have teams. The fastest I've seen it successfully keyword in this is successfully rolled out is nine months from the leadership team, going through the EOS process of focus day and vision building one and vision building two and getting into the 90 day world of quarterly cadence. And some teams have yet to roll it out two and a half years later. Now, you don't want to keep it a secret, but to be vulnerable as the leadership team, to be able to say, hey, here's what we're working on. We want to get it right. The first slow drip, if you will, like drip a little bit again, don't keep it a secret. But if you're not ready and if you don't feel like it's in a state where you're not going to make a lot of changes, don't rule it out.
- [19:19]
B
We, we actually waited. So my last company, Hunt a Killer. We self implemented for a few years and then we went and got an implementer. By the way, I tell this story all the time. I just give you like the wave tops, which is like we self implemented and we were like, oh, look at this. We've transformed the company. And we did like, we were working so much better than when we were before. And then a few years later we're like, okay, we can afford an implementer. We go out and we get one. And it was Margaret Dixon. She was like, what the hell are you guys doing? And we're like, what? Like, we've been doing this three Years. We know we're experts and the company went through this completely new transformation at that point. And when we were self implementing we kept it at the leadership team level. It was just a way for us to operate. We talked about core values and things like that. All this to say is like we took 12 months to fully understand and become like we looked at the core function leaders as like mini implementers because they have to go do their own L10s and so they have to be able to lead and answer questions. When you think about some of the development that happens in the early days for an organization, core values, 10 year target, a three year vision, all these different things. Is your recommendation ever to like drip campaign? Meaning? Meaning like hey listen, we sat on this for three months, these are our core values, we know it. And like permission to roll them out or are you like no when you're rolling out eos, be ready for everything and wait until the right time.
- [20:45]
A
I think it has to work in your house. How it feels right for you is the way I would answer that. So that's why I agree with you and I'm going to use your words. It's a drip campaign. Why not? I mean now here's the ideal is it's a state of the company and where we've been and where we're at right now and where we're going along with all the VTO information again. But I would hate for you to keep it a secret. And then people make up their own narrative, you know that, right? Like they make up their, like we don't know what they're doing in that room for a full day. Like what are they even doing? They don't come back and they don't tell us and like so all of a sudden it can become this negative thing because you just haven't given them clarity of what your goal even is as a leadership team. So that's why I cannot stress enough to drip something, educate them. I mean even as an implementer, I offer our clientele to say I'll do a 90 minute meeting for the whole entire organization to give clarity of what we are doing behind closed doors. Not that it's going to be rolled out and I can become that voice. And so that really I have observed the leadership teams that we have the privilege to work with, they're kind of relieved because I'm the one that's delivering that information. They're not having to figure out how to navigate or communicate that conversation. So that just makes it easier. And that's remember that's my primary goal. I want to leave it better than when I came in. And if I can help to communicate that to the whole entire company, I'm happy to do that. Because we want to do it right the first time. Let me take the. Let me take the bullet for you, leadership team, because somehow you may not communicate it right and you may let something slip, and now it's like a mess. Like, let's just take that off the table. Let me help you do that.
- [22:39]
B
That's the first time I've ever heard. So I've done probably 100 of these interviews. That's the first time I've ever heard that. And I. I love that idea so much. Never even thought about having a 90 with the full team, because that's where you get all your exposure and your initial understanding. And what better way than to bring in as many folks as possible to get the same level of understanding out
- [22:59]
A
of the gate again, I try to keep it simple, take away the complexity, because a leadership team that is in the moment of learning eos and implementing all of the six key components and the two disciplines underneath each of those and getting clear on their own vision, that's a lot up here and a lot of mental work to do. So how about we just take that off the plate of complexity and frustration? I'm like, what do I even say to the rest of the people? Like, how am I communicating that? That's why we. Why I've chosen to do that, because it just helps the leadership team, helps put them in a really great light so that it's communicating EOs purely. And we're not divulging anything that they've decided on yet either. And so that's the vulnerability piece to be able to say they have to learn this, and they're putting effort and time into this for the benefit and the greater good of the entire company. So let us do that. And when everybody on the leadership team is ready, you're going to be the first to know. Guess what? We're not leaving you out, but this is the work that we're doing on your behalf.
- [24:13]
B
And that level of transparency, I think back in the day it was like, do as I say. And that has really kind of transformed. It's like, well, why? Being able to give a lot of those underlying reasons of why. And I think that shows of bringing someone in that can explain this is why we're doing this. That way it's not so abrupt of like, hey, from this point forward, you're going to do L tent. Oh, by the way, here's our core values and you know, go figure it out.
- [24:41]
A
Right? Exactly, exactly. And core values can be, you know, if we said, you know, I heard you reference some Enron ones of integrity and trust, which were the absolute opposite obviously of that company. But if we said what are ones that are permission to play, those would be permission to play. Like is that really a core value? Because you don't really get an option to sometimes live or breathe by that. You don't get an option to not live or breathe by that. Aspirational core values are like, well, that'd be nice to have, but so far out there it's really not even going to happen. So that's not a core value. And a successful business that is taking it to the next level can have accidental core values because they just grew into them. But is it the same thing that they want going forward? So those are the three things that I would help you and challenge to think about. Is this an accidental one? Is it aspirational and never really going to happen? Or is it a pay to play honesty, integrity and trust are pay to play, my friends. It's not thing a good core value.
- [25:43]
B
All right, quick break friends. Do you find it impossible to hire and retain top sales talent or worse, are you paying insane recruiter fees who are all using outdated hiring processes? Yeah, I was too at Hunt a Killer. We were spending hundreds of thousands on recruiter agency fees. And after I sold that company in 2025, I started Talent Harbor. And the whole vision here was to make sales recruiting accessible to small and medium sized businesses. Because the organizations that can hire and retain world class people are the ones that ultimately win. Most organizations rely on things like ZipRecruiter or LinkedIn and they get hundreds if not thousands of resumes. But we find that the best salespeople are already perfectly placed somewhere else. And that's why our approach is to go after them. And we do that through a business model called recruiting as a service. We do not charge commissions, we do not have success fees, we don't have contracts, we don't have long term engagements. And we become an extension of your team as expert sales recruiters. If you're tired of the same old recruiters and want to actually grow your sales team, check us out@talent harbor.com that's Talent Harbor. T A L E N T H A R b o r.com let's get your next sales superstar hired. You talked a little bit about about complexities and just use this as Like a business case, like I think like Chipotle or five Guys. Like when they get hyper focused on one thing, fries and burgers, that's, that's all we do. That's, you know, it's that simple. You talked about complexity as it relates to core values in some of these other areas. Are there other places when you walk in probably specifically to the financial management space where you're like, what, what are you guys doing? Like, we gotta simplify all this.
- [27:36]
A
Amen, brother. It's everywhere though, let me tell you. It's, it's everywhere throughout. Like if we just said the six key components of eos, the vision component complexity. Because everybody's on a different page and nobody's going in the same direction. The energy is like going everywhere instead of one direction. Because this is, it's about managing human energy, right? The people component. How about the definition of all the seats and your accountability chart? Like that is where complexity can happen because it's like, well and remember it's about six to 12 months from now. We're not trying to align the 10 year target with the accountability chart, but we're also not building the accountability chart for right now. We got to build it for six to 12 months from now, not 10 years from now, but six to 12 months. And then how about the data component? Oh my goodness. Let's talk about scorecard. Who doesn't have an issue with scorecard? Like what are like A scorecard equals KPIs, key performance indicators or OKRs, objective and key results. Like all, all those things are the exact same thing. So right there in and of itself, three different terms for the same exact thing. So scorecard items, what mean, what is a great week in marketing or biz dev or operations? Like that's the dotted line to your scorecard. Because again if I said the book four disciplines of execution talks about lead and lag measures and I love this because lagging measures are the numbers. And I don't care what industry you're in. So if I speak wealth management, it's assets and revenue and net new assets and ebitda. And like all of those things, which EBITDA is still true for any business, but you may or may not like the numbers, but those are lagging because the numbers going to happen no matter what. Leading indicators are the activity that lead you to the number. So what is the leading activity that you must do week over week to get the numbers that you actually want? So I correlate it to, you know, scorecard is like the rumble Strips on the side of the road. You know, when you're driving off the road and then you hear that, like, that's what a scorecard does for you because it helps predict. Like if you're off track on your scorecard, you're probably not going to get the numbers you want.
- [29:47]
B
Staying on that topic for just a second, like when, when you think about leading indicators and lagging indicators, one of, one of the exercises that that's run is, you know, imagine yourself on an island and all you have is a laptop and an Internet connection. All you can see is one dashboard. What are those, you know, five to seven numbers that you're going to want to look at to understand the health one? Well, I won't start with our problem. I'll just start with the question, how
- [30:11]
A
do you, how do you get into it? Let's hear it.
- [30:14]
B
How do you. Well, okay, I'll get into ours. Like, one of the things that we've struggled to do is create. Create leading indicators at the SLT level. Because the things that we want to see are very much like, what's the health of the business today? And we've had this weird thing where, like, all of the core function areas have leading indicators. And I would say about half of our scorecard at the SLT level is lagging indicators. How would you think about that and how would you help us see it differently?
- [30:50]
A
So if you looked at all the functions on the accountability chart, and if those have more leading indicators in those functions, what could be at the senior leadership team level that says we know that 80% strong based upon that function's scorecard? Like, what if it was as simple as that to be able to say all the things that we have identified? We know that that function, the biz dev function, the operations function, the sales and marketing functions, the finance function, is running 80% strong or better because of what their core scorecard says. So what if it's that 80% strong? You know, what if it's that piece? What about coaching moments? Like, this is where I observe leadership team members and visionaries and integrators love more coaching moments, which, guess what that leads to. It helps you to delegate and elevate. So that's absolutely a leading indicator because you've had those coaching moments during the week. I had a team that I had the privilege to work with and their client experience function was such a fantastic scorecard. Like it, like, they could have sold this to other wealth management firms. And I let them know that the visionary and the senior leadership team Hated that scorecard because they're like, I don't care about any of that stuff. Yeah. I'm like, and that's okay. This group has to care about this stuff. And what if it's, you know, that that function is functioning because of all of those things are happening? So 80% or strong or better of all of the scorecard items. What if that was just the line item of all the different functions? And the senior leadership team could say, yes, we're 80% strong. We're on track for that because of this other scorecard detail that's in the weeds. I don't know if that answers your question or made it more complex and confusing, which. That's what I want to get away from.
- [32:50]
B
No, no, I actually, I like that a lot. The 80%, because. And that's how. Well, we don't have the 80%. And I'll give you just like one. One example we've got. One of the things that we want to look at on a weekly basis is new clients acquired. We want to look at the bank account balance to make sure it's going in the right direction. So there's something. But those are both, like, the only reason we would be increasing velocity in the acquisition of clients is because we're reaching out to X amount of people per week and we're, you know, retaining X amount of clients. And so, like, would your recommendation be to, like, take some of those things off the scorecard and, like, replace them with this? And it's just kind of like, well, Ryan, you can open up the bank account balance and know if it's going up or down, but this is what you want the SLT focused on, you
- [33:39]
A
know, it's back to the island, right? It's back to that island thing. And I would even say I would take your computer away from you and you would literally only get. Get a physical piece of paper from the cabana boy or girl with your libation of choice. And it's the piece of paper. Because you can cheat if you have your computer on the island. So you don't even get the computer. You only get a piece of paper with libation of choice with those 5 to 15 numbers on it. So, I mean, there is no easy, like, black and white silver bullet answer in this. It's like what's most important for you to have the pulse of the business is what you want to see on the island. And every function, technically is its own island, if you will. And that's the. The example I gave in this client experience. What they wanted to see on their island and client experience was so much more in the weeds of what the senior leadership team really wanted to see. So now what, what would out of those things, what do you care about from the senior leadership team? So go look at all the different functions is my recommendation and say, out of all of that, what's the pulse for the senior leadership team that you care most about? If there is one single thing or if it's merely a combination of those things to say, we know that they're more in depth on each of these different functions of the business. And as long as all of those things are running and on track, then that's what I actually care about on the senior leadership team. So that's why I'm saying the 80% strong in whatever somebody else's scorecard is, don't get rid of it. But that just could be a component of what's on the senior leadership team level that you want to see. I mean, I like heard you say bank balance. I've heard credit card balance. I've heard, you know, yes, we've got that centers of influence, you know, what outstanding loan balance. Like, am I saying any of them that are feel right?
- [35:32]
B
You've already got like 85% off right now.
- [35:34]
A
Yeah, hey, 80% is a goal. I'll stop now.
- [35:40]
B
Three to seven core values. Try and get as close to three as possible. When you, when, when we get to the SLT scorecard, you know, you talked about the 5 to 15. Are, are you, are you of the mindset of like, if you're at 15, you have way too much or you're like, no, like, like there's going to be different things that are on that. And, and you have grace up to 15. Before I start getting involved, you have
- [36:01]
A
grace like be it be. And here's why. If it's that important and there's clarification and justification behind whatever that scorecard item or rumble strip or I say these are like the reps at the gym. If you want that body, you got to do this many of this every single week. Whatever analogy you need to like help understand scorecard, those are what's going to be on it. But if everything is on it, you're not necessarily predicting. Well, to say this is the behavior that we have to see every single week to ensure that we're getting that number. So getting everything that you want. If you want, you know, X number of total client meetings per year. I mean, for my own math, Billy, let's just say 300 like we have to reverse engineer that to say okay, well if that's the number that we need and not need, but want at the end of the year, let's reverse engineer that and say okay, well this is what it's going to take. We need to meet 10 people a week and we need four follow ups and we need two proposals closed every single week to meet that number at the end of the year. Reverse engineering everything. I love reverse engineering everything.
- [37:12]
B
I love it. Do you, I'm not sure if you experience this on the financial management, wealth management side. You might because there's small shops and there's probably people that are making legitimate money at the top. Do you ever run into circumstances where maybe it is the bank account balance where it's like as the owner of the company, the owner wants to see that but, but as far as the whole slt, they feel a little, a little weird with that information out there. What's your, what's your position on that and how is that overcome?
- [37:44]
A
I think it's the question really is about transparency, like how transparent, visionary and, or if it's the business owner, like do you want to be in this? And I think that the more transparent you can be, the better it is because then we're just all on the same page, especially with the leadership, senior leadership team. I mean again you're not sharing bank balance with beyond those functions, but I see that more often than not. And you know these are billion dollar wealth management, registered investment advisor firms that are hanging their own shingle, that are multi locations. And so these are really big companies that have to run like a business. They're in wealth management. I say you moved away from running a practice to now running a business with a group of humans. It's not a solo business owner as a practice, you are now an ensemble business. Multiple financial advisors, multiple seats on the bus, client service people, client concierge, relationship managers, you know, 30, 50, 100. I have a team that I'm working with and blessed to get to hang out with and there you have almost 200 people in their organization. So these can be, you know, very profitable regardless of the size in wealth management.
- [39:13]
B
Space is one of the things that you see in wealth management shops, maybe, maybe like the smaller ones like when you get into the core function areas is sales and marketing, operations and finance. Do you ever struggle specifically in this vertical of like, well who's in charge of the operations and who's in charge of sales and marketing Just based upon like it feels like a flat construct where it's like a lot of people have to go and help other people manage their wealth. Do you ever run into issues there?
- [39:41]
A
Of course, the size of the business is a question of that. But if I speak peer EOs, I mean, you know, this is for anywhere from two to, you know, 100 employees, you know, 2 million and up in revenue, all those types of things. And all of the teams that we work with and the businesses that we work with are in the target market for eos, because as you know, if it's, if it's outside of the target market, it doesn't necessarily work. And there's a lot of people that have multiple hats that they're wearing. So they're sitting in multiple seats of the accountability chart, which that just is an opportunity to get the right humans on the bus, get clear on what the role and responsibility is and in hiring opportunity, which again, if you don't have clear core values, how do you know if it's the right person for the team?
- [40:28]
B
Okay, one thing I did want to get into, this is such a great conversation, is you do a lot of virtual sessions and I've heard mixed reviews on virtual, but you have obviously figured it out. You've got the vibe board behind you, you've got an amazing mic, an amazing set up. Like what are, what are some, some things that, that might be different or that you have to do different when you're coming in virtually versus being able to sit across the table from someone.
- [40:57]
A
I mean it's, it's thinking about what the experience is, right? So it is about the microphone, it is about the vibe board, it is about your camera, it is about your lighting, it's all of those things are critical component. One of the teams that I am now newly working with, they were looking at multiple implementers and, and because they're a displaced team, they wanted virtual and that's why they ultimately chose to work together with my team and I, because this, I mean this is a giant iPad is what this is. That's how the easiest way I can describe a vibe board, but I can share that screen on the computer screen, I can have it on my iPad, so I can be writing on my iPad, which will show up back there, but it'll show up on my computer and, and there are a lot of other implementers that have virtual opportunities and that are way better than I am. So like this is just the scratch of the surface of what you can do from a virtual perspective. But it's, you know, and get a stand up desk and like that's what I have. Like I got, I got the nice one with the button that like if you're not standing up, you know, and I'm about ready to get my balance board because I like need to be wiggly and all of that. But it's what's the environment that you're going to be at your best so that you can give the closest in person experience that you can. Because it is about energy. Energy has to come through this computer screen. Otherwise if you're just sitting there and clicking a PowerPoint or clicking whatever, if they use 90 or Straddy or like whatever the EOS platform is that they like and if they don't use any kind of technology US platform, good luck because that's going to be challenging if you are in a virtual space. Most of my, you know, teams, well, all of my teams use some form of a tech stack in that regard because then I'm in that it's pulled up here and the beauty of the vibe board is I can share that with you and then you could be writing on that vibe board and like it's like we're standing in front of a real whiteboard together. So it's not just about me drawing on it. Like I can have post it notes up there and you can put your post it note up when we keep killing, combine and scratching stuff off. So again, just think what is the opportunity to create high energy for yourself? Because you've got to like project all of that. You are the one that's driving the energy. But how do you create the closest thing to an in person experience as possible when you know that that were across the screen from each other. So I play music. I have teams pick their favorite music. I'm like, I start with a lot of, you know, hardcore rock and roll stuff, like you know, conference type kickoff music. But then on breaks I'm playing that music. So there's, there's a lot of. And we do breaks. Like that's the other thing is you do have to break more. I feel like I have cracked the code on this of like we go for three and a half hours and we break for lunch either 30, 45 or 60 minutes and we go another three and a half hours. So you know, the EOS days are full. 7 plus or minus hours. The minute, like I say that to someone, it's plus or minus seven hours in a virtual, they're like, shoot me now. I'm not going to be on, you know, a zoom meeting for seven hours. The minute I change it to go. We're going to work three and a half hours. We're going to have a couple breaks in there. We're gonna, and breaks being 5 to maybe 15 minutes. And then we're gonna purposely break from 30 to 45 or 60 minutes, whatever you choose. But remember the other end of that. What you choose means when we get done. But then ideally we work another three and a half hours. Let me tell you what, Ryan. Three and a half hours goes like lightning speed. And that is so much more digestible from a virtual experience to go, okay, I got this. Seven hours. I don't have it. Like again, put me out of my misery on a zoom call for seven hours. I don't want to think about it that way.
- [45:01]
B
So one of the, I don't know if it was in the five dysfunctions of a team, but there is this level of engagement. And I realize we're all adults, but at the end of the day, even when we went into session, we all put our phones in a little box. Even as grown ass humans, we would do that. Is there like, like I feel like the temptation for distraction? Like, oh, an email just popped up, sales thing. Like, is it, is it everything that you just talked about here of like the energy keeping people engaged that like keeps them out of all of those things?
- [45:32]
A
Absolutely. And then when you're looking like you're going like this and all of a sudden I see like this, I'm like, hey, Ryan, what you doing over there? Like, is Millie the dog with you in your office now? Or like, what's, what's happening in this moment? I need you to come back. So, you know, it's calling people out. I like to have a lot of fun, but I'm very sarcastic and if it's no one else's entertainment, it's my own. So I will, I mean, I'll call you out, man, like focus. And that's the other reason why I feel like the three and a half hours and breaks in those three and a half hours really works. Because then it's like, okay, please put your phone on, do not disturb, shut it down. It's not like you're locked down today for seven hours and you're not going to be able to listen to voicemail, look at email, all that stuff. You're going to have that opportunity. But I ask you to be here, present, turn your camera on, be involved. In the minute you start looking off camera and doing other stuff, then I'm going to go, hey, what's happening? Let's pause. Like, what are we doing?
- [46:35]
B
Are there best practices as far as, like, what if two of the people. Like, you know, what if you're doing a virtual session and two of them just happen to be in the office and the rest of them are remote that day? What's your philosophy on that?
- [46:46]
A
No bueno, man. Not happening. Everyone gets their own Brady Bunch box. And I just dated myself by saying it that way. You gotta be in your own little zoom box. Like, no, if. If everyone's in the room but me, this is not gonna work. If there's two people in the room and I'm not. Like, it's not gonna work. Like, just. I. I have learned by doing that, and it just sucked. So let me just help you to never do that. Yeah, everybody's in the room, or everybody's in their own zoom box or teams box. Whatever. Whatever technology you're using.
- [47:23]
B
I imagine the. The market size for that is huge because, like, when you think about all the distributed teams and, you know, teams were going distributed and things like that before. Before COVID but after Covid, everybody realized that zoom existed and. And now can go work from home. It's just gotta be such an amazing. Like, everybody's already used to it at this point, and so just being able to get in and tap into that market is pretty brilliant.
- [47:49]
A
So let me go back for a second of, like, history. So remember when I was that financial advisor, I worked for three different mutual fund firms, and I got to go to every location possible. Wirehouses and insurance and banks and, you know, independent advisory firms. But those are not cool jobs to have a practice management role in 2002 and 2008. So I got laid off twice by the same human. And which was also the catalyst In December of 2008, for me to start my own coaching firm. So Ironstone Business coaching is mine, and EOS is a part of that. But I tell you all that because guess what? In 2008, like, we started using virtual in 2008. Like, we were already. Like, does anyone remember Skype? Okay, like, if I say Skype to you, like, we use Skype. And I a long time ago. I'm so dating myself. So 2020 literally did not disrupt my team at all because my whole team has been virtual from inception of the company of December 2008. So we were teaching people how to use Skype and, like, to do this already. And I still remember. We'll never forget. One team was like, you know what? I. We don't want to see you on video can we just do a conference call? Because this is really weird. I will never forget that, because it was just so foreign. Talk about foreign. 2008 to 2020 was when we were already doing this virtual thing. A lot of it. And so, yeah, more of it was phone calls than video, but those that were willing to try it tried Skype.
- [49:25]
B
Yeah. So you. Well, actually, first question. The guy that laid you off, are you guys still friends today?
- [49:33]
A
He's no longer with us on this earth. And like, sorry. So. But. But no, we were not really after that second round, and it was like a whole group of humans that were laid off in that process. Again, practice management is the first thing that, you know, chalks out if. If we're gonna leave. Like, practice management's gonna be the first that goes. But that is what I love. Like, that I want to help you to run your business better. So that was just the, God, wink and push. To say you weren't going to leave your corporate job, that you were known as the lone wolf and, like, person that couldn't be managed was part of my reputation because I am entrepreneurial, and somebody gave me permission to be the visionary that I am. And the minute that, that. That clicked in my brain, I was like, yes, I love this. Of creating and making and. But yeah, that. That's. That's some further history of. Of where I've come from to where we are today.
- [50:39]
B
I can. I can certainly understand, you know, the first time, maybe a little bit of forgiveness. Second time, I can. I can. I can see that also. You just. You just did pull chalks, and I just a fun little anecdote was just with the whole team, and I was like, hey, time to go. Because we do this in the military. I flew in helicopter in the back of helicopters, but that's. That's the whole pool chalks thing. And. And they thought I was doing some sort of, like, I don't know, Seinfeld
- [51:03]
A
or See, but I, like, I know what you're talking about. And this.
- [51:06]
B
This is great. You know the lingo.
- [51:08]
A
Yes, I do. I was raised in a military family, and I'm married to. I will just say, Ryan, you're. You're Navy, but I'm Air Force. So, buddy, like, like, chalks out. Time to go, bud.
- [51:18]
B
Yeah, that's. You know, listen, we all hate on the Air Force, but the reality is you have the best golf courses and the best hotels, and I think it's really just comes from jealous around the world. It's true. It's true. I was out in Japan. And I forget which base it was, but it was up until that point it was the best golf course I'd ever played at in my entire life. It's probably like 30 some years old. And it was an air force base. Of course it wasn't Navy or marines. No.
- [51:46]
A
You're welcome.
- [51:47]
B
Yeah. Thank you, thank you, thank you for your service. That's, that's the whole thing.
- [51:51]
A
Thank you for my spouse's service and my dad's service. So like they get the credit. I'm just the support team. So.
- [51:57]
B
Which is by the way and like not to break character on any of this, but that's like the most important component. Like being able to go and operate and deploy and be forward, knowing that like things are being taken care of, that's a tremendous amount of responsibility. So. So hats off on that one. All right, question is, what do you look for in a client? Like, are you. Well, you're obviously not geographically. It has nothing to do with geo. So like what, what are you looking for in clients?
- [52:25]
A
I actually think I said it in the beginning. If you care about running your business better, you care about, I'm going to say practice management, right? Like if you care about how this business runs and you want to create something that's beyond your lifetime, that's who we want to work with. If you want a lifestyle practice where like I don't care about growth, I just want to come in and do my thing and you know, I'm not necessarily care about like the vision of like I just want this in the present moment. Like that's we're not the best, we can't be our best for you. If you don't care about running your business, getting all the human energy going in one direction, getting traction and accountability on that vision and ultimately having a healthy team, organizational health again is your number one thing that will make you stand out in the sea of sameness. So if we can help you to gain control, boost morale, grow your business, unlock the freedom that all that does that allows you to exit wise when that time comes. Exit is not an event. Exit is just a great business strategy. And that's what all of this is.
- [53:34]
B
Yep. I had a guy told me a long time ago, he's, it was like, he was like, the best thing you can do today is build your business to sell. It doesn't mean you're going to sell it, but you put the, the processes, the infrastructure, you build it like you're going to sell and God forbid you don't sell you have a great running business at the end of that, so.
- [53:53]
A
That's exactly right. Think 100 year business if you want a hundred year business. I mean, you're planting the tree now. When's a great time to plant a tree now? Because you're not planting it for yourself, you're planting it for future generations.
- [54:05]
B
Love that last question. So someone just listened to this whole thing and they're like, oh, my gosh, I'm a fully distributed team. I've got a growth mindset. I'm ready to roll. How would they get ahold of you?
- [54:16]
A
Lots of places. I mean, ironstonehq.com is our website. It will also lead you to the EOS microsite because we have an EOS plugin right on our website. You can find us on LinkedIn all of the above. And I know you're gonna drop all those probably in the show notes when you put everything in there. So I welcome collaboration, conversation and all the like, because this is what I love.
- [54:39]
B
I love it. Andrea, thank you so much for taking the time to come on. I appreciate it. This was like, I've got three pages of notes. I don't know if you saw me flipping, but I was frantically taking stuff down. I learned a lot, like the simplicity stuff and the core behaviors, but really, like thinking through some of the complexities that come. Like, it's so. It's so easy for people to say, hey, you need three core values and that's it. Or, you know, hey, it's leading indicators versus lagging indicators. But what you were able to do is, like, break down some of the complexities that come along with things that seem real easy. And if nothing else, you helped me out in a big way. So I appreciate you.
- [55:14]
A
Outstanding. I appreciate you. Thank you for inviting me. And this has been a really fun collaboration aberration. So let's keep talking.