← Confessions of an Implementer
Confessions of an Implementer
The Power Of Active Listening, Business Culture And Empowerment with Jackie Kibler
00:55:50
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- [00:00]
A
Well, one thing, when you were talking about those people that said they're just dumping on me a recommendation that I might have, and this is also in how to be a great boss when they're dumping on you, it's like, hey, you know what? That sounds like a great problem for you to solve. What have you come up with so far? And if they say nothing and this is a Vistage thing? Well, I don't know. Well, if you did know, how would you start?
- [00:30]
B
Welcome to Confessions of an Implementer. I'm your host, Ryan Hogan. We share unique stories of EOS implementers and the companies they've transformed to give you a rare glimpse into the successes and challenges of the system in action. Let's jump in. Okay, so where do we even start here? There's some really interesting kind of like Vistage tie ins. Obviously we've got the EOS stuff to talk about. But how did you get into all this stuff? Because your background, there's a psychology background in there, is that correct?
- [00:59]
A
Yeah, yeah. I was a psychology major in college and I during college and a little bit after, I was a suicide counselor and trained people to be suicide counselors. I worked in an inpatient rehab facility for dual diagnosis. I worked with the mentally and physically disabled and trained in, trained in, you know, active listening. And as I transitioned to business and started working with whether they were my team members, direct reports, you know, people that were leaders, and then eventually, you know, coaching CEOs and leadership teams, which is what I do now. I mean, it all boils down to my passion around people and, and really wanting to help them get to their next level of success. You know, obviously it's a little different with trying to have somebody really think about whether they want to take their own life or whether they want to change somebody out of their leadership group. But it is all around basic human principles. So to me, that background in psychology has really helped me do what I'm doing now and to be quite honest, helped me throughout my career, no matter what I was doing, because it all has to relate to people.
- [02:28]
B
What's. You said this and this term is thrown out constantly. Like we all hear about this idea of like active listening. Like what, what does that actually, what does that mean? What is active listening?
- [02:38]
A
So with me, and I'm going to just go back way to the beginning when I was being trained to be a suicide counselor, it's listening to what people say without thinking about what your next question is, not interrupting them and then asking questions to the person to ensure that you have that information, correct? Because lots of times that doesn't happen. And I'll use my husband, for example. Why not? Right? I might be in midstream and he's just going to start talking because what he has to say definitely related to whatever my end part of the conversation was. And so that, that is the opposite of active listening. You've got a lot of people who just, they don't mean it. It's just that they what they have that have a thought in their head and they don't want to lose it. And so they may not, it may have nothing to do with what the other person was saying or you might even not hear the whole thing the other person was saying.
- [03:41]
B
And what are. That's why I take notes. Because if I don't take, if, if I don't take notes, I'll forget because I'm trying to active listen. And then I'll be like, next, next thing. And here's some topic points. But I hear you on that. When you're talking about active listening and you're talking about like this, some of this is just normal human behavior. Are there like some tactics or strategies that people can use or that you coach people on where you're like, do these three things and it'll stop you from derailing the conversation or taking it in the direction that, that you want to go.
- [04:11]
A
If there is something, and this is more of a coaching thing, I do it with myself too, I guess. If there's a question that you have regarding something that being said, write it down. If you feel like you're going to this is this. I do definitely do. If I feel like there's something I need to say and they're not done half the time, I'll like bite my cheek because I don't want to interrupt them. And then the third thing ask for. I mean, if I'm hearing you correctly, what you're saying is you write things down you. To ensure that you're hearing what's being said and you don't interrupt.
- [04:51]
B
That's correct. And was that a, is that a clarifying question? Is that like to keep it back and verify the things that we heard are true and correct? Or was that a legitimate question just for me?
- [05:03]
A
I was trying to role play with you, what you just asked me.
- [05:09]
B
There you go. That's. Yeah, that's exactly what I do. I write stuff down. It does. It did. It does. And then you got into sales and so like I'm assuming this stuff like translated into, into those parts of Your life.
- [05:26]
A
Oh, yeah. So I grew. When I left the psychology, you know, or counseling world, I was lucky enough to get into an organization called Dun and Bradstreet. And, and at that time, the role like that, you know, new hire, green bean type role, it didn't have selling. I just had to call people, get all the information from their organization for their Dun and Bradstreet report, get their financial statement, get their credit references and call. And that's what I did. And then they started integrating sales. But in the very beginning, I told my manager, I'm like, I really don't want to sell. I really don't want to do it because you sort of feel like a used car sale salesman or that's what I thought it was because we. I just wasn't brought up in a business family. My dad was a entrepreneur. You know, he was. Had a music business for 50 years. My mom was a kind of a stay at home mom. And so I didn't, I didn't know anything like that. But then when Dun and Bradstreet started bringing in things that needed to be sold and we had to sell them, and we were being measured on it now. Sort of go to eos where if you measure it, it gets done. But right, that's when I started listening to what people were doing that were successful. Taking it, adapting it, and then doing it. And so, interestingly, the person who hired me at D and B was the only one who wanted to hire me in that office because, you know, apparently I'm a bigot of a loudmouth. But the coolest thing was is that her time investment in me paid dividends because I ended up being like the number three person in like definitely the northeast, if not the country, for what I was doing. And so I, that's why I was, you know, you and I, when we spoke, apparently on June 17, we talked about, you know, all the different places we lived in D and B. Every time I was promoted, I was relocated. So, you know, I went from Syracuse to Cleveland to Tucson to Orange County, California. I lived in Greensboro, all these different places. And what I would say helped me from a sales perspective outside of training that I got much later was that Cheryl, my manager, like, took time with me and helped me and trained me, like, probably more than anyone else would ever spend time with. And that is now the way that was how I worked with anyone who worked with me. So, like, some of the people that I worked with, who I brought on as, you know, fresh new hires, I mean, one of them is an executive at Google. The other owns her own recruiting firm. I mean, and all of that to me boils back to the person who took time with me and paying it forward and giving it back to me is so, so important. So that's how sales came to be. So I went from being a counselor to sales, and I guess I sort of, you know, whether it was sales, sales, sales leadership, sales training, it was all. I mean, that was sort of like the majority of my life.
- [08:36]
B
I love what you said there about, like, this idea of, like, giving it back. So I've. I've been in the Navy now for 23 years, and that's three years past when I could have retired. And. And like, very early in my career, I was lost, and I had a whole bunch of energy and was, like, very passionate, but maybe not directing that energy in the right ways. And there was like, one or two people that saw something me, not many, but if you looked at my evals and some other things, like, you wouldn't see, maybe like the greatest things. And I got into trouble earlier in my career, but there was, like, one or two people that believed in me and either gave me another shot or. Or put me in a position where. Where I could succeed. And it changed my life. And. And that's. That's one of the reasons I stay in. It's certainly not for the money. It's like, I can make these. These impacts now at scale. And so if I can impact one or two lives like mine was at 17, like, it's very important to me. Like, what did Cher see in you? Like, what. What it sounds like she became kind of, you know, your champion inside of the organization. And you became her pet projects. A terrible, terrible word. You became.
- [09:38]
A
I was a pet project for sure. For sure. And still am. I'm. We are best friends. We've been friends now for 33 years. You know, we go on vacation together. We, you know, she moved to California to be near me, that she then left, but she at least did it. So I think she saw someone that had potential. I think that's all she said. She's like, I knew Jackie had it. You know, I usually just take that as what she's saying, because then, you know, because after she says that, she's like. And no one else thought so, but I was right. That's what she says.
- [10:15]
B
So that's that. I love that. And this. So this is going to sound like a loaded question. It's not a loaded question. And we can maybe work through this question together. Because you just said. You just said she saw the potential. And. And, like, I've been in that position too, where, like, I see the potential in somebody. And so my question for you is, like, what does potential look like? Because as you said that, I was trying to think. I was like, what. What does potential look like? Because we. We do it all the time. But, like, how do you articulate that?
- [10:46]
A
Well, you said it about yourself. I mean, you had a hunger in your belly. You had all this energy. You needed someone to help channel that energy. When I had to take the Tucson. The Tucson office at DNB from like 30. God, it was like 12 to 15 people to a hundred. Because at that time, call centers were a big thing. I would. I mean, I remember recruiting this one kid who was in. He was a server at Applebee's, and he just did. He was like. He did like. He put salt underneath my cocktail so it wouldn't stick. He tried to upsell me. And so then I had him work for me. I mean, it's just that service. It's that hunger in your belly. It's like going a little bit above and beyond, showing some personality, listening to the coaching that someone's giving you about something. To me, if you can do that, that's everything. Now I have also, because I fall in love with people, like, probably too quickly. I would even say that with clients now I fall in love too quickly. There are times, it really took me a long time as a manager, not necessarily a leader, but as a manager, where times I would think they had the potential, and maybe they did, but I wanted it for them more than they wanted it for themselves, you know, so that. That's. I. You have to kind of. You have to gain the maturity, I think. And maybe I'm slow. It. Maybe it took other people less time than it took me. But for me, if I saw it and they said it and they did it and then they didn't do it, or that was very, like, here and then not there. And you see that with right people, right seed all the time. You know, more the right seat than right people. You can. Can't fake, you know, the right people thing. But to me, that was the only thing that was a challenge. You saw potential, you knew that they had it, and then they. They didn't want it. And so you have to make the decision to find a different path, whatever that path is.
- [12:57]
B
It sounds like what you said is you missed that they actually wanted it or you wanted it more for them than they wanted it for themselves. Is there, is there things that you look for or that, that you can see or observe or is this just a gut feeling nowadays where it's like, I've seen this, this story a thousand times and like, this one doesn't want it. As you've like, not course corrected, but as you've like honed your approach at observing behaviors, observing people and really trying to make sure that you're investing your energy into the right folks.
- [13:28]
A
Yeah, I mean, I don't have direct reports really anymore, except, you know, the people that work with me, like Sheena and my bookkeeper and those are really the only people that have, that we do things with now. But back, you know, when I worked at corporate executive board and I had all these like people, too many people reporting to me, I mean, to me what I saw, I mean, it wasn't, I never went by gut feel. It was, I asked questions to help get the answers that I wanted. But it was also, and I think I would find this a little bit more difficult, maybe not virtually versus in person. So when I met people in person, I knew very quickly. I mean, when I was at LA Times, you'll get a kick out of this. I was bringing, bringing a new team together and I totally changed the profile that LA Times had for hiring for this specific group. I went from people with experience, people who were of a certain tenure, people who, I don't know, whatever those are, those are things that were, that they, that they had and they wanted. And I decided I wanted to hire a brand new team of young, not as tenured folks so that I can train them the way I want it to, wanted to train them. And the project that we did actually like it went, it flew because it was launching a new, like, like, like a magazine or whatever. It flew because they were learning the methodology that I wanted them to learn and how to do what they were doing and also selling holistically for, versus just that one product. So when I'm talking to people, I want to not just hear what they're saying, but the way they're saying what they're saying. Right. So this way you can hopefully get a true view on who they are and what they want and what they can accomplish.
- [15:37]
B
There's a story out there and it's like Henry Ford and he wanted like, I don't know, unbreakable glass or bulletproof. Whatever it was, it was something to do with the glass. And his engineers came back to him and they said, and by the way, I don't know if this is like an urban legend. This is, this is just the story that has gone around for the last hundred years. But his engineers came to him and said, that's impossible. And so what did he do? He fired all of them and he brought in new engineers and those engineers figured it out. And there's sometimes where this bias and preconceived notion and all of these things that had kind of entered the picture which will, like jade your. Like, what is actually possible. And we actually do this at Talent harbor as well because, like, I think and this. I know you come from the recruiting industry as well. So I will, I will tamper my. My words and disdain for the industry. But unless they're actual recruiters, because I think there is, like, there is something about tenured recruiters, but all other aspects of the business, we generally go outside of the industry because we don't want those preconceived notions. We don't want those biases of, like, how things have been done. You spotted something. You were like, listen, we need to get young, hungry people through the door and like, train them to our ways that we know that works. I'm sure you see this in organizations that you work with. Like, what is the timing on that? So what are some things, some patterns that you're seeing inside of the organization where you're then like, it's time to blow this up. I'll stop there because I could go on a rabbit hole on this one.
- [17:12]
A
So I can either talk about what I do with EOS or what I did as a leader. It's up to you.
- [17:19]
B
Let's go with. We'll tie in some EOS into this. How do you do it as eos?
- [17:26]
A
So with eos, and I know you talk to a lot of implementers, the coolest thing, and I wish I had this in any of the organizations that I worked with. You've got your set of core values that are defined by you and your leadership team for the organization. You're bringing it down through the organization and keeping it alive. It puts like the culture of the organization in black and white. Then you also have your accountability chart, right? The accountability chart is the structure of the organization with each seat having. Which is a person with each seat having five to make it easy. I call it expectations. Five expectations of that person to be successful in that seat. It's not a job description, but you could definitely write a job description from it. And if with those five roles in the seat that brings across the right seat, they also that when you bring the two together, it's right people, right seat. I'm a cultural fit and I can do a good job. There's other parts I think that can add to that as well. You talked about bringing in preconceived notions or habits from the past. If you. And I'm just going to the process component really quick with eos. What I love about EOS also is that we have an entrepreneurial way of documenting process. Top 20% of tasks that get 80% of the results. So if I'm working at Talent harbor, you're giving me a list, right? A list. This is how we do X, Y and Z. Follow it, and that will get me 80% of the way that I need to get successful at Talent Harbor. So then the last part is the scorecard. If I'm not doing what I need to do by the number that I have or measurable that I have for the week, all of it. It just takes out all subjectivity out, puts it in black and white. It shows you the way to do it. Right people, right seat and metrics. That is a beautiful box in how to identify whether I'm living up to the potential that I thought you had when I first hired you or you're not. Also, it would help me to identify, are there seats, other seats that you might be able to gravitate towards, help with succession planning, things like that. You know what I mean? So that was a lot. But to me, that's the passion. That's why I do what I do. I mean, I love. I love the fact that when I'm working with companies and you see, there's. I'm just going to go to an example. There's a company that I'm working with in Salt Lake City. They are a construction company. I do work with quite a few construction companies. And they're like. When I was first talking to them first, they. They're like most of the people here, like, half of them aren't right people, right seat. We've got so many issues. Accountability is bad. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I started working with them nine months ago. Nine. They have like, one of the leaders, when we were doing their quarterly a couple weeks ago, he's like, I am in. I am in amazing shape. He's like, I've got all right people, right? See? And I literally stood up, did a little dance, sang a little song, and they were, they. I mean, it's. It's so amazing. Half the issues that they talked about are now mitigated. I mean, now they're 100% or 80% strong in anything, it is elevating. You know, it's like 100% utopia to get strong in anything. Just like for you and what you try to do, to be disciplined in what you're doing day to day, that's what these companies are trying to do. And so for me, when you talk about that and then you hear, just makes my day so happy.
- [21:30]
B
All right, quick break, friends. Do you find it impossible to hire and retain top sales talent? Or worse, are you paying insane recruiter fees who are all using outdated hiring processes? Yeah, I was too at Hunt a Killer. We were spending hundreds of thousands on recruiter agency fees. And after I sold that company in 2025, I started Talent Harbor. And the whole vision here was to make sales recruiting accessible to small and medium sized businesses. Because the organizations that can hire and retain world class people are the ones that ultimately win. Most organizations rely on things like ZipRecruiter or LinkedIn and they get hundreds if not thousands of resumes. But we find that the best salespeople are already perfectly placed somewhere else. And that's why our approach is to go after them. And we do that through a business model called recruiting as a service. We do not charge commissions, we do not have success fees, we do not, we don't have contracts, we don't have long term engagements. And we become an extension of your team as expert sales recruiters. If you're tired of the same old recruiters and want to actually grow your sales team, check us out@talent Harbor.com. that's Talent Harbor. T A L E N T H A R B O R dot com. Let's get your next sales superstar hired. What do you, what do you think? So like a place applying that same structure. Like, like think about Henry Ford's engineers that did a great job building glass, but when he changed the dynamics and wanted something different, they were like, that's impossible. Or, or maybe even the team that you adopted at the, at the newspaper company. Like if you would have used those principles, like, do you think that they were missing a behavior, they were not the right people. Or, or the organization wasn't valuing a growth mindset and being able to challenge norms. Like, I guess because like, what I see is companies always fall into this trap of like, they get to a certain place and then there's this whole notion of like the team that got you there isn't the team that will get you there or whatever the case may be, but they did get you there. And at a certain point there was a change where they couldn't keep up. Like it. Do you think that it was like a right seat because they couldn't evolve or like challenge their own preconceived notions 100%.
- [23:51]
A
I mean, yesterday I was doing a focus day with a company in Los Angeles and they are very successful at what they do and a third of their leadership team, when we're trying to look at even just the seats and how to make the seats so it will help support and sustain what they want to do to get to the next level, to be number one in their space. It was, it was. This is what they've known for 10 years. And it's difficult to see how to. Even if you're talking about lifting yourself up, what is it? You can't, you can't read the label of the pickle jar from inside the jar.
- [24:34]
B
Yeah, yeah, that's it.
- [24:37]
A
So they're very. They're deep in those pickles.
- [24:42]
B
That's. That's going on the court of the day. It's a good one. That's great. Yeah. Do you think some of those behaviors get trapped at the top, meaning they're not being challenged enough by the people at the top enough to evolve or. We talk about this idea of human nature is change resistant and there's not a human out there that loves change. And for some people it's easier, and some people, it's very hard. Is the idea here that, like, they're not being pushed enough to continue to adapt and think critically and the organization is just getting soft or it's like, no, they were always the wrong person. It's just, it didn't come out until we got to a place of where the challenges actually became even harder.
- [25:38]
A
I think you probably got a combo out with that. Right? So especially with companies that I work with and other implementers, for the most part, they're entrepreneurial companies. The owners are running in 15 different directions and just expecting the folks to do what they need to do to get the job done. And to your point, people don't. They're change resistant. So in some instances, and I heard it yesterday, it's easier to avoid conflict and just continue doing what you're doing than to fix it, you know, and maybe in other instances, you know, you've got somebody who was able to take the company to, I'm just going to say 20 million and then what needed to be done to get to 30 or 40 million was beyond their capacity. So, I mean, that, that definitely happens. And it's a matter of how they deal with it. The coolest thing yesterday is the, the two partners of the company that I was with yesterday after everyone left, we had a conversation, you know, and they asked me to be very candid and I was, I was pretty candid, you know, for good or bad.
- [26:51]
B
Yeah, I had like. And that's, yeah, obviously I'm a huge fan of Eos and like what happens in the session room. And Eos changed my life. Not to make this like a podcast all about an EOS infomercial, but that was one of the benefits. So Margaret Dixon. Do you know Margaret Dixon?
- [27:10]
A
I don't, but that's okay.
- [27:12]
B
Okay. So Margaret Dixon was our implementer. She's out of Boulder, Colorado and she would do the same thing. So after, after like group sessions, she would pull me aside and she would give her her candid. I mean I would, I would ask for them and I would be like, give me your candidate. Because there's this like confidant slash third party who has a lot of wisdom, a lot of experience and just observed everything. And like sometimes we're so focused in the business that like we can't see the things. And like based upon her feedback and I'm sure based upon the feedback that you're giving, like there's going to be serious conversations, following conversations that happen based upon that. Because you guys can see stuff that like visionaries can't see and integrators can't see because we're just in the day to day.
- [27:54]
A
Right. 100% and people that have that. I guess if you're not open minded to make change, you wouldn't hire an implementer anyway, nor probably be interested in Eos. But there are organizations where, you know, the CEO or visionary is really interested and very wanting that feedback. Some aren't as open and then some are, but never do anything about it, you know. So the fact that she did that with you, to me is really important. And the fact that you were open to it to me also was. It says a lot about you as a leader.
- [28:42]
B
What's more, just like I've gone through so much failure that I was like. Because I'm just going to call it a phase of life. I did have the phase not where I thought I knew everything, but just where I thought I didn't need help. Not that I knew everything, but that I could solve challenges on my own. And it just ended in disaster. So many times, like one time to the tune of a business bankruptcy, personal bankruptcy, and then like trying to maintain a TSSCI Clearance through like personal bankruptcies is very challenging. And so like it took, I'm like when, when you're like, hey, that, that pan is hot. Like I, I just need to touch it real quick just to make sure that what you said. Yeah, okay, it's hot. Oh, now we have burned hands. But like, you know, at a certain point I was wearing mittens from all the failure. And so like after I had the next company that really started to take off, it was like I can learn so much by putting together or being a part of a peer group, which Vistage. And then, and then, yeah, then Dan Wallace came through and did our, did our speaking engagement in the EOS group and, or excuse me, in the Vistage group. And then we implemented and was life changing. Well, one thing you said, and this is just kind of top of mind, so this is a really poor example of active listening because I'm kind of taking us in an offshoot. But you said something about, and I forget which company it is, but you said I had way too many direct reports. And yesterday I read a really interesting article that I sort of agree with which was this gentleman talking all about like every time he goes through an M and A process, the middle management is costing the business more money than they're making it. And basically like there are people that set the vision and then there are people that just do it sounds like you were managing a lot of people. Like how many people is too many? And is there still, maybe in the future, do we still have a whole bunch of middle managers to manage? A whole bunch of the doers?
- [30:40]
A
Yeah, that's a great question. So I'm going to tell you my reality and then I'll tell you, I mean, just what I try to do with my clients.
- [30:52]
B
Okay.
- [30:54]
A
So when I was with ceb, at first I had a team and I was sort of like middle management at this, this when I first got there and I had 16 direct reports. But it was like they were, it was a team of, you know, they were teams that was, that was nothing. But then they started adding more teams and I didn't have any managers. And so towards the, the, I don't know, we'll say a year, a year plus into it I had five teams that reported to me globally and I went to my manager and I just was like, look, I, I all about being Ms. Cellophane Lady. But I, if you're not going to have, you have to at least if you're not going to give me trained managers, I don't care if they're frontline, if I have to train them. So they gave me six, six managers but I, none of them had experience so I had to train them. But you know, looking futuristically, I was cool with that because I could train them the way I wanted to train them, have them do side by sides the way I wanted them to do it, to help really position the frontline folks for, you know, success. And also because I had experience in working with outsourced partners, I was finding an outsourced partner for them. I'd worked with them before, so I was helping them with that. And then I went on to also have a, A, a sales team outside of like these people were lead generated. Like they were calling to create appointments, if you will. That was too many drinks worthy. That's, that's what that was. But the cool thing first the company was amazing. I mean I, CEB is now part of Gartner Group. Love it. They're a really good company. It was just that I just kept taking more and more and more and more and I maybe it was just my ability to not say no. Although I don't think I was given much of an opportunity for that. But also it gives you the opportunity to multitask and really use creativity to try to get as much done as you can. And I was able to get what I wanted towards the end with the people that I work with now clients. For me it's important that they can maximize what they're doing. If you have 100% of your time and you are in five different seats, there's no way you can be giving 100% of your time to each of those seats. The maximum you could give if you're doing it all perfect is 20%. Right. The less seats you have. And also think about, so now think about direct reports, right? Really what is the magic number is like seven direct reports. If you're really doing deep dive, one to ones, quarterlies, things like that. I mean for my performance reviews for these folks, the people I was talking about, it took me a month and I was doing back to back to back to back to back to back performance reviews. It was, it was nuts. So yeah, it's the opposite of what you would really want for people. Especially if you don't want people to burn out. I talk to people about themselves and then also about who's reporting to them and trying to figure out like who, like if something having what you don't want is a single point of failure, like somebody has to be able to do what you're doing somebody else to be able to replace you. If you want to get move to Bora Bora or get recruited to a higher position within the organization. Promoted was probably a better word for that. I think the magic number seven. I mean, maybe you can go above and beyond that, but. But if you go too much beyond it, then you're not giving your direct reports what they need to be successful.
- [35:05]
B
What's your. And I don't know if it's a hot take or, or, or not. What's your. What's your take right now? Because I'm seeing a lot of different things across the spectrum, a lot of different opinions on this. Like, what's your take on One on Ones?
- [35:17]
A
I, I mean, I don't know what everyone else says, but for me, one to Ones, I love them. I think that they're really important. But what that doesn't mean is everybody needs. I mean, in the book how to be a Great Boss, which we also do workshops on, in that book, they talk about not like in One to Ones. There might be people that need to meet with you more than others. And I can just tell you a couple of the things that I did. Like, for me, if I had someone who, like, they could probably do my job better than I could and they were out in the field doing whatever they were doing, I might ask them if they wouldn't mind mentoring somebody who is newer in the playing field. Because then I could ask them really quickly what's going on about them, but also talk about the plan with the people that they're mentoring. You know, you don't want to smother somebody, but then also you don't want to be. So like, for my son, he works for a company called Sazerac. So they do like Pappy's and Blanton's and Eagle Rare, just bourbon stuff. Fireball. For people who don't know what any of the other stuff is, if they.
- [36:28]
B
Don'T know what Eagle Rare is, they. They shouldn't even know what whiskey is.
- [36:33]
A
His sales, he's grown that territory that he has been in 170 or 180% since he's had it. The people that manage him really, I mean, they don't really talk to him. It is so that, you know, you kind of. You could feel a little first off, you could be making mistakes that they don't know about, which could cause clients to quit. So there's one thing, but the other thing is that person might feel that they're not important in the organization. And the only thing that the company cares about is the numbers, not them. And so there can be some disheartening with that. So one thing that I talk about with the clients that I have is them meeting with each of their people to identify what is the right meeting pulse that, that one to one cadence for them to, you know, talk things out, get to know each other. And it shouldn't be just about bad stuff, you know, it really shouldn't. It's about good things that should be worked on, things that I could do to be a better manager. What I've seen in you from, you know, values, roles, rocks, measurables, just doing it from an EOS perspective, I mean, it helps to build and strengthen relationships, you know, and using active listening when you're doing that is really important because you want the person to talk to you and think that they can trust you or know that they can trust you.
- [38:03]
B
So the, the hot takes right now you've got these business leaders that are coming out and they're saying every time I'm in a one on one, basically what's happening is like the problems that that person should be solving are now coming to me. And it's an interesting take. And then what you just said, which, which is like huge, is this idea of care. Like when I had evaluated previous leaders throughout my military career, the ones that stuck out to me were the ones that genuinely cared about. They took an interest in who I was as a human being and I would go above and beyond. And another thing you mentioned is like, if the organization is just tracking numbers and the numbers, it sounds like your son's numbers are like through the roof. And they're like, well, we don't have to talk to that guy because he's just out there killing it. But then that guy's like, they don't even care about me. Like, there's got to be an interesting, an interesting balance of this.
- [38:51]
A
Well, one thing when you were talking about those people that said they're just dumping on me a recommendation that I might have, and this is also in how to be a great boss. When they're dumping on you, it's like, hey, you know what? That sounds like a great problem for you to solve. What are, what have you come up with so far? And if they say nothing and this is a Vistage thing. Well, I don't know. Well, if you did know, how would you start? Love that. Because I use that. I was talking, you know, it's when I was with Vistage and somebody asked me a Question. And I was like, well, I don't. I don't really know. And he looks at me like, been like a chair for 30, 40 years by now. He's like, well, Jackie, if you did know, what would it be? And I'm like, that means you have to answer. So what solutions have you thought about and what's holding you back from starting them? What do you. What can I do to help you? Because what happens with a lot of leaders is when somebody's dumping on them, they take all the dumping. Throw that. It's. It's not your monkey and it's not your circus. Have them take the monkey, don't take the monkey.
- [40:01]
B
Yep, I did, by the way. I, I just used that same example. The, the monkey. The HBR article. Is that. Is that the one? Have you heard about this?
- [40:10]
A
Not my monkey, not my circus. Keep the monkey. That you. To keep it yourself. There might be things that the leader needs to take care of because it's above what that person can do, but if it's within their control, don't, don't, don't take it.
- [40:25]
B
When, When I read, when I read that, that HBR business article about the monkeys and was like, you're walking down the hallway and like, you're like, oh, hey, Bill. And then like, their monkey jumps on your back. Then you bump in the Jan. Jan's like, monkey jumps. And by time you get to the end of the hallway, you've got 37 monkeys. And like, now the rest of your schedule for the day is, Is burdened with helping other people. It's so interesting because, like, this is also very, it's very topical right now because of this whole remote work. And it's hard for. Well, I don't know, for some reason, MBTI says, like, I'm halfway between an introvert and an extrovert. I would disagree with that. But that's what it says. And so I'll still speak on behalf of introverts. I feel like the only reason that, or some of the core purpose of why we exist is to connect with other humans. And in a virtual environment, regardless of where you stand on the spectrum, we don't have to go down the debate of, like, are we virtual or are we not in office? Because of course we're in office. But like, the, the moments, those opportunities, like, let's say you didn't have one on ones. And those moments to connect at a deeper level, like, typically take place by the, the watercore, but those moments aren't happening nowadays. And so, like, trying to recreate those moments and do it at a frequency in which makes sense while not getting bogged down on one. On ones. It's like this weird balance where, like, as human beings, I. I have no idea how we solve that, but they're all at conflict, I guess, is the thing.
- [41:53]
A
It's true. No, I. I agree with that. And there's lots of. There's lots of companies that their communication has dissipated, which also dissipates the culture that they're trying to create with without having that communication.
- [42:11]
B
That's. So we started this at Hunt a Killer, and I liked it so much that we do it today at Talent harbor, but we have. We call it a fireside chat. And so every Friday, the entire company gets together for 30 minutes, and we have. We'll call it a loose agenda, but we start with the core values, and we start with acknowledgments of actions or behaviors that an individual made inside of the company. That is a great example or vignette of one of our core values. Because it's one thing to, like, say the core value or, like, put it on the wall, but people, when you can actually start drawing a line between, like, a behavior that was observed that you can now point to and say, like, that was growth mindset, great job. I feel like those connections are better. And then we just give everybody an update. So it's like we start like a cult. Like, we're like, these are our core values. And we send out some. Some. We call them Bravo Zulus in the military. We send out some BZs, and then we just give everybody an update on where we're going.
- [43:05]
A
I love that.
- [43:07]
B
Yeah, we're. We're. We're trying. We're trying. We're learning. And, like, it was the pandemic that forced us to do it. So the. The issue that we had during this was back in The Hunt Days, 2020, we had a team that came in every single day. And in a creative environment, some of them would argue this, but I believe that in a creative environment, you need brains together, having that conflict, talking about the story, and how are these components and pieces going to come together? And when we went 100% remote, like, it was incredibly isolating for folks. And so anyhow, that's why we started it back then. And then now that I've continued to run remote operations, it's just something that I think is helpful for the enterprise real quick, backing up all the way to the beginning in this, like, super connector. Like, what. What was your. What was Your secret sauce. What was your magic? Have you just been in and around LA so much that you've just met other people? Because the purpose of this question is especially EOS implementers and Vista's chairs and other people, like, they're always looking for ways to, to meet new people. So how. How did you become the super connector that you are in la?
- [44:11]
A
I don't know. Because, I mean, honestly, there are people that knew me before here that would tell you that I'm a connector. I just like meeting. I mean, it goes back to the fact that I love meeting people and people are, you know, I mean, they are. I, I love to be entertained. I love hearing stories. I love helping, like, not just clients. Like, if there's somebody I know that's like, hey, I need some help with this, I want to know somebody that I can introduce them to, to help them with where they have a gap. I mean, that, that's the bottom line. And I've always been that way. You know, I don't think it's just a, Like, I, it's. I think it's an innate thing. I. You know what I mean? I, I love, I'm. I'm genuinely interested in learning about you. Like, I want to hear about your journey, I want to hear how you got where you are, I want to hear about your business. I want to hear how you grew up, why you moved as much as you did. You know? You know what I mean? Aligning that with the fact that I did and we lived in a lot of the same places, that's really cool. You know, one of the things, even at not at Dun and Bradstreet, trying to think some of the, like, I worked at two executive recruitment firms. One I was a partner with somebody, and then the other one, I was. I told him he had to hire me and I went and picked up my desk and so he hired me.
- [45:43]
B
Wait in the office or out of a magazine saying, this is my new desk. You're going to buy it?
- [45:47]
A
No, A friend of mine introduced me, I flew down. That's when I moved to Florida. I moved, I went down, I flew myself down to Florida to go meet with him. We had lunch. He took me to the office. I walked in, I saw a desk. I'm like, okay, so this is my desk. I'll be here on July 11th and I'll see you then. And he said no one had ever done that.
- [46:07]
B
So.
- [46:11]
A
But I mean, I just, I, I've always wanted to be able to help people with who they like, if you need something. I want to be able to be the person to give you some guidance. That's it. And I've always. It's just always been that way.
- [46:29]
B
You and I are very much the same there. Like, both with our quick starts and then with. And also, like, I don't, like, life's not about money and this and that. Like, life's about human connection and the. And like, I've always felt that, like. And actually, some could argue it's almost selfish because, like, I get joy out of helping other people.
- [46:46]
A
Yes.
- [46:47]
B
And therefore, de facto is like, I am actually selfish because I'm. I'm actually doing this because it makes me feel good. And I am genuinely curious and excited to. To help you. Well, how. How did you. Because you just moved to Charlottesville. So you just moved to a new area. Like, what's your tactic there? You moved in and then what was the first thing? Like, you find somebody in your Rolodex that knows another connector in the area?
- [47:12]
A
No, it happened way before then. I knew I was going to be moving, let's just say nine months before we did where we were going to move, when. Ish. We were going to move.
- [47:22]
B
And.
- [47:23]
A
And I was at a. One of our quarterly collaborative exchanges, our QCEs, which is where all. Lots of implementers get together. And there was a guy, Derek, I think his name was from Firefly, which is the PE company that owns eos.
- [47:43]
B
And he's Derek Smith.
- [47:44]
A
Yeah. So I told him the fact that, you know, that blows my mind. But I told him, or someone, someone said, hey, you know, this is Derek, blah, blah, blah. And he was like, so you're moving to Charlotte? And I was like, yeah. He's like, you have to meet this guy. He's in Raleigh. So he made a virtual introduction. That guy was with Sales Acceleration, which is a sort of a sister company of ours. He introduced me to a bunch of people, and that's how I started. It's just, it was like, just like one person introduced me to five, five introduced me to more. And I just, I've been like, I had a party at my house four days after I was there, and then two days later I flew back to L. A To do sessions. So there were like 30 people at this party. And it was just to begin to get the ball rolling.
- [48:37]
B
Did you have furniture down yet or.
- [48:39]
A
Like, I went with my best friend Cheryl to go buy, like, bedroom furniture. But we, I was. I was lucky enough to have purchased some of the furniture from the lady who had the house before Us. So we did have. We did have downstairs furniture.
- [48:58]
B
I. It's so funny because, like, that was my intent, too. I was like, as soon as we go down there, and we knew. We didn't know six months in advance, we probably knew four, like, where we're going to be and what it was going to look like. So I started doing the same thing. So I got an intro to Gary, and then Carlos, you know, Carlos as well, but, like, started connecting all these things, and I was like, you know what? I'm going to have a party as soon as we move down. So we moved down, and we just couldn't get, like, our crap together fast enough. And there's a long, longer story there, but there's. It's just very busy and a lot of moving parts and schools and children and, like. And now we're past the time we're not having furniture downstairs. It starts to be, like, a little bit of a question. So, like, we missed our window where we could be like, come over and don't pay attention to anything, because people will come down. They'd be like, where's. Where's your dining room table? And we'd be like, well, we sold it in Seattle and we just haven't had time.
- [49:47]
A
Or, you. You moved it because you were having a party.
- [49:53]
B
This is why we're talking, say that.
- [49:56]
A
There'S always 20 reasons why not to do things. And I have very unrealistic expectations of myself, like, having a party and being there for four days and still having to unpack and put stuff on the walls and buy furniture. And the coolest thing I did is I was. I can't remember where I was, but I was somewhere and I was laying in bed, and I'm like, you have to find someone to cater this because there's no way you can go shop, prep, set up, cook, and all the other stuff. And luckily, I found somebody. It's like, talk a chef or take a chef. I found that online. And so I hired somebody. It was the best money I ever. I ever spent. This way I could talk to the people, get to know them. They get to know my husband and my best friend who was hostessing the whole thing.
- [50:50]
B
I love it. She's just going around with the wine and the.
- [50:52]
A
He was.
- [50:54]
B
I'm. I dig this. We're doing something similar. So, like, I've got this, and you'll appreciate that we'll talk about this more tomorrow, because I don't know how much listeners actually care, but I've got this hypothesis that the Vistage ecosystem, the EOS ecosystem and sales acceleration. Chief outsiders like these ecosystems all share the same icps and all add tremendous value in their own competencies. But there's been no conduit to bring these folks together. And so we started out here. I think I told you. You said if I would. If I would have been out or known. We did the Magic Castle event. We brought together those three ecosystems and it went so well that we're now, like, scaling it. So we're doing another one out here. You'll be invited if you decide to fly out. It's in November. We're going to do an LA Kings game, but we're doing one on your side of the coast in Annapolis on October 10th, and it's the same thing. So we're going to rent an Airbnb mansion thing on the Chesapeake in Annapolis, and then we're just going to have a cater come through and have like a huge seafood boil and just bring together all of these ecosystems.
- [52:00]
A
Oh, I'm going to that. I'm going to that.
- [52:02]
B
I've got a client.
- [52:03]
A
I've got a client. I could bring a client. He would be so excited.
- [52:07]
B
In Maryland, you have a client.
- [52:08]
A
Yeah, in Annapolis.
- [52:10]
B
You're just like, all over the place at this point.
- [52:12]
A
But I. I told you, I'm trying to get clients on the East Coast. So he is. And I work with a lot of industrial manufacturers of hoses, and he is an industrial manufacturer of hoses. So I'm actually going up there in September. But I'll tell him we will. He's going to be my. He'll go. He doesn't know that yet.
- [52:32]
B
So I love it. You're just like texting right now. October 10th. Book it. Save the day. Yeah, you're already on the list. You didn't know it because we haven't sent out invites yet, but. But you were already on the list. Now you're on the list with a plus one, which is even better.
- [52:47]
A
1. He never stops talking. He's a good client. He is a trip.
- [52:50]
B
He cracks me up if someone's been listening to this and they're like, holy crap, I need some Jackie in my life. She's got the experience and the, like, the active listening and the dynamics, the personality, like, to make a difference in my business. How would they get ahold of you?
- [53:05]
A
So the quickest way is to email me, which is the same name that's in front of you, Jackie kiblersworldwide.com. they can go to my LinkedIn and send me A message or you can get in touch with Ryan Hogan because he knows my contact information.
- [53:24]
B
It's very true. And you're all like, yes, yes, someone's in la. You're like, yep, I got clients there. And Maryland evidently got clients there. That's awesome. Okay, and then last question, like, what do you look for in a client? Like, are, are you, are you the type that's agnostic? And like, because I, I know you did say construction. What, what are some of the things that you look for in a great client?
- [53:47]
A
Awesome quest. Question. So, no, it's a lot more than just construction. It's just, I've got three or four of them. I also said industrial manufacturers of hoses, which I've got about five or six. So. But I've. The company that I very recent company was a law firm. It's everything from attorneys to agriculture, everything in between. I've work of them. For me, honestly, what I look for is somebody who has got a mind, a growth mindset. Like what got me to 10 million won't take me to 20. What got me to 20 won't take me to 40. I want somebody to help me and my team from an objective point of view, help us get there. And it would be a fit. I mean, you talk to a lot of implementers, Ryan. My personality, I think it takes a special company to want to hire me. So I mean for me they have to. I take what I do extremely seriously, but I don't take myself seriously and I like to have fun. But I mean, my clients know that I'm there for them, that I care for them and that I'll do whatever I can do to make them be their best.
- [54:56]
B
Love it. Awesome. All right, well, thank you, thank you for taking the time to come on. I know like you're in the middle of traveling, you're probably jet lagged at this point and well, it's easier to go east to west and west to east, so. Good, I caught you on this side. But your, your body is telling you it's, it's like six o' clock and after hours. Appreciate you taking the time to come on. Looking forward to lunch.
- [55:17]
A
And just like we're doing dinner, not lunch, remember tomorrow night, dinner.
- [55:21]
B
I just follow what my calendar says and I'm hoping that it's on there at the right time. It is. Yes. We are doing dinner. We are doing dinner. But thank you so much for taking the time to come on, have the conversation and it's been great getting to know you over the last couple months now, which is because just, like, worlds collide constantly when you and I talk, which is great.
- [55:38]
A
Yeah. No, I agree. And I've really appreciated being on here. It was a great conversation. So thank you for having me.