A (3:19)

There you go. That's incredible. So is this, like, one of your things you like traveling all across the world, and how did you wind up there?

B (3:28)

Yeah, I am insatiably curious. And my mama says I don't have enough worry bones in my body. So I'm always finding myself in situations that probably the normal traveler wouldn't, but they always turn out interesting and cool. And my mind keeps expanding because of what I am willing to try, what I'm willing to do. And so I'm always taking that back to my business, my clients and curiosity to me is an amazing leadership skill.

A (4:04)

You know what's really interesting about what you just said? And if you take this from, like a product or service level, you hear about a lot of entrepreneurs that do international travel and see and experience things, and they wouldn't bring pieces of that back with them. So Starbucks was all about creating the third home. And it's because of either the founders or Howard Schultz had experienced this in Europe. Red Bull, like, Red Bull kind of came out of Thailand or something like that. But there's a lot of things where entrepreneurs go and travel the world and see things, and it inspires them to bring parts of that back with them. Are there things that you've done during your travels, or what things? Because I think you said, yes. What things, like, during your travels, have you either drawn correlations or brought back saying, like, this is something that not necessarily need to implement, but this is something that needs to be discussed or thought more deeply about from a leadership level.

B (4:53)

What an interesting question. There's several things that have happened. For a while there, I had created a corporate university in the company that I worked for. And so I got to travel the globe and teach while I was there. And understanding the differences in how everybody lives their lives, cultures. In the beginning of my travels, it was all about the differences. The more I traveled, the more I realized it's all about the similarities. Where are we together? And I think that was a big lesson for me when I came really became a leadership developer, a leadership coach, and focusing in on, where are we the same. How can we start there? Because if you can Connect with me or I can connect with you. Then we build trust faster and we can have greater conversations. And I think that that's such a huge thing. I learned really quickly when I was traveling and teaching around the world. The simple examples that I would use in my training, they don't translate. Like, I had a class that I don't even remember what the class is now. But one of the examples I was using was a baseball diamond. And as I'm flying over to China, I realized that may not be the right example. So I had to figure out what's another analogy. But being able to not just speak the language, but what's the heart connection.

A (6:26)

I agree with you. And I mean, even in our society, we could use a lot more of that. Today, with everything, politics and everything else going on is like a simple understanding. And like, where do we agree first? And then getting into some of these other areas. That's so interesting. Are there things that, like, is this a matter of listening more? So is your approach to this? Like, I'll open up my ears and open up my heart. Like, I will be more receptive first to understand where they're at in life or get an understanding for who they are. Or are there things that you come out of the gate in trying to find those things that are already similar between you and them?

B (7:05)

Yeah, it depends on if I have any time to do research. I find this is a simple little thing. I find LinkedIn is a good way to just go and quickly see are there any kind of connections there? If there aren't, and even if there are, my favorite go to is questions, which leads back to being curious. I find that when I ask more questions, there's several things that happen. One, people start to feel heard. Two, they start to recognize that because my tone of voice is not one of interrogation, it is absolutely one of curiosity, they begin to realize that I value them and the information that they have to share. And people love to talk about themselves, about their business, about their company. So when you start talking about them, there's just this unfolding that happens. It's so exciting.

A (8:00)

It is. I think you and I are very much the same. Like, I love learning, I love exploring, I love adventure. And a lot of that comes around getting to know people. Because people have very interesting stories and I don't know, maybe, like, I don't like talking about myself. Like, I would very much rather listen to someone else's story and just get lost in their life versus talking about myself the whole time. And sounds like you Take a very similar approach.

B (8:25)

Yeah, sounds like podcasting is good for you, man.

A (8:29)

We're trying. This is a career number four. So we'll see if it pans out.

B (8:32)

Well, I think it's a willingness to step out. So here's another travel story. I was going to a friend's wedding in Lake Como in Italy, the Italian Alps. Beautiful. However, their wedding was a week after 9, 11. And so the vast majority of people canceled. And I thought, there's probably not a safer time to travel on air than there is right now. Right. Because everybody's watching. So I went over, took a week before, went to the wedding, and then took a week after and just explored. And so one of the trips, I was heading to Venice, flew into Germany and realized, you know what, I want to go to Dachau. I'd already been to Auschwitz. I wanted to go to Dachau because I think that there is a great honoring that needs to happen for people. So when I did that, I missed my overnight train. So I had to take this speed train, which got me into Venice about midnight, one o' clock in the morning. However, if you know anything about colby, I'm a 10 quick start. So I tend to leap before I plan. And apparently the B&BS close at 10. I could not get a hold of them. And it was one o' clock in the morning, and so the whole station was empty. And so I'm sitting there trying to figure out, what am I going to do? And the conductor came by, and in my limited Spanish, in his limited English, I discovered that he had a friend named Sebastiano. So he called Sebastiano to come to the station. And I'm walking down the streets of Venice and it's just gorgeous. The moon is reflecting off of the water. And in my head I can hear my mama saying, sandy, Denise, what in the are you doing? And I thought, even though we couldn't talk as clearly as you and I are, you can still connect. And what happened was he and his girlfriend owned a three story building. The first two floors they rented out and then they stayed on the top floor. And I was going to be in Venice for like a day. I ended up being there a week because they were so cool and I got to explore. And I found out more about how do you interact with people? How do you begin to build trust? Because one of the things that I thought was really fascinating during that trip was I was told very explicitly before I left by the company that I worked with, by, anyway, all kinds of people, they were saying, don't do anything that has an American label on it. Don't wear anything, don't say anything. Because it's very easy to tell if you're an American. And I was traveling by myself, so it was really easy for me to do that. I got stopped so many times, Ryan, without saying a word, people saying, I'm so sorry about what happened in your country. And finally after I don't know, the fifth or sixth person, I said, how did you know that I am an American? And they said, because you walk with confidence and you don't have that. It's like speed, trust, like not constantly swerving to see what's going on around you. I don't know that that's good. You start paying attention to the people around you and it's easy to connect, just seeing somebody in their eyes and smiling and them smiling back. When you're traveling by yourself, there is so much more opportunity to talk to people and they will show you places that you can't when you're on your own. And I just feel like when you are walking into a company and you need to build trust with them, how do you do it? You do it by being human. You look them in the eyes, you smile, you start asking questions, making sure you don't have that interrogatory tone of voice. And I think it's amazing what can happen that comes out of that curiosity.

A (12:22)

And you talk about this a little bit. I think when we did our initial call and one of the things that we talked about was this notion of like a golden thread. And it gives us kind of one theme to kind of pull through the entire conversation. And it's interesting because I think we're kind of already hitting on it. But one of the things that you said was this idea of helping business leaders open their minds. What does that mean? Like, it's easy to say open your mind. Like, what does that mean in practice?

B (12:48)

Yeah, most of the companies that I work with are small to medium sized companies, like two to 250, 500 employees. And what I find is I work with the business owners and their leadership teams. Most of the time they are really good at what they do, but they haven't really been taught how to run a business. And so they come in it with this filtered perspective of how to do things. And my job, I feel, is to enable them to see there are other opportunities, other options that you can choose. I think it was Einstein. I get it wrong all the time, but I'm going to attribute it to Einstein. I Think he said that when you grow up in one industry or one profession, you get incremental growth. When you switch, you get exponential growth. And that's why I think this whole time travel and working with multiple companies, being able to bring people in and say, hey, I've got other clients who have thought about it this way. Have you thought about something like that? Just giving them the opportunity to say, oh, that just never even occurred to me. Here's a simple example. When I was starting my business, I was working with a consultant and she said, sandy, you are doing great. I know, I'm so excited. She goes, and you are going to burn out. I'm like, what? Because I was doing great? She goes, because you are a one man show. You can't grow until you start having people come in and do work for you. And it was like it never even occurred to me that in my business, as a consultant to other businesses, that I could and should have people working for me too. It was a simple thing. But it's like one statement can make you look at something totally different. Say, ah, one of my favorite books now is who not how. So how do people see the opportunities that are out there so they can choose. Rather than being caught in this incremental growth, I want them to have the option for exponential growth.

A (14:56)

And we kind of just glossed right over this transition period that you had because you spent a lot of time in corporate America.

B (15:03)

Yeah, 17 years.

A (15:05)

So 17 years, and then you went on your own. You had a coach say, you're killing it, you're great, you're a rock star. You're like, I know, now go hire some people and do even better. But 17 years, did you just wake up one morning, you're like, I'm gonna start my own business. How did that come about?

B (15:21)

Actually, I had a business before I went into corporate and loved it. Advertising and marketing. And three years later, I'm a flaming visionary. I was ready to sell it and the contract was at the other companies, attorneys, everybody was ready, they were excited. And that week, just total fluke. My two biggest clients that were in two totally different industries went bankrupt. Very difficult to sell 15% of a company. And so I thought it's unfair for me not to pay my vendors, even though I wasn't getting paid. So I thought, okay, let me go back into working for the man. Let me go back into the world. So I went into corporate and I thought I would be there for a year. And it turned into 17 years. My thought was going into it first I want to pay them off. Second, I need to learn what it is to be a good entrepreneur and how lovely to have somebody else pay me while I'm doing that. So I made a list of the things that I needed to know or I thought I needed to know. And so every job that I did, because within three months, the corporation, the huge corporation that I worked for, spun my company off. And there were, I don't know, a couple hundred of us when we started the company, and within four years, there were 10,000 of us. So every job that I did, I got to be an entrepreneur. I totally got to create my jobs. And then when there was a new. So the last seven years is when I created the corporate university, new president came on and he said, why in the world do we have trainers? Can't these techies read a book? And so he let go of all the trainers all across the world. So my whole team and I, I had people in many different countries. I felt really bad for them. I personally was ready to go. But they paid for my mba. They paid for my executive coaching certification. They gave me training that I wouldn't have had in any other place because it was entrepreneurial. I got to do a lot of things. And so when I got laid off, I was like, cool, thank you. Because I already had clients in the coaching world because I was getting my certification and I just never looked back. It's been 11 years now, and I feel so lucky that I get to do what I get to do. It's fabulous.

A (17:37)

One of the things you talked about, this idea of the corporate university and thoroughly training something, it's something that we talk about a lot, Alana and I at Talent Harbor. And actually today we were talking about. I don't know how it came up, but she was like, you know, throughout the three decades that I've been recruiting, if I get somebody from Enterprise, Disney. And there was another one, she was like, I know that they're going to be a rock star because they've already gone through their vetting process and the training programs that those corporations have are second to none. And so we had this whole conversation this morning over the value, coincidentally. And then we jump on this call. We're talking about the fact that you put these programs together. So give me your perspective on corporate training. I mean, they obviously probably a little biased because you started from scratch, but everybody on the outside seems to think that there's a lot of value in these things. So what are your thoughts?

B (18:24)

Yeah, I mean, you know, the trite statement that our employees are our greatest asset. In some companies, that's true. In other companies, just make me money. Stop talking. Just do your job. What I find, Ryan, is that the companies that really want to grow recognize that their people have to grow as well. Marshall Goldsmith wrote a book, what Got yout Here Won't get you There. And I have two clients that in the last three weeks have lost two people off their leadership teams. One company because they fired two of the leaders. One company because they resigned to move somewhere else. All four of the employees who are leaving are employees. Employees that wouldn't have gotten the company there. They got the companies here, but they won't get them there. And the smart companies are the ones that recognize. So how do I grow my people so they have longer opportunities to be with the company? Because I was at a state of the city or something address a few months ago and one of the things that statistics that they shared with me just scared the behaviors out of me. They said that last year there were 5 million more jobs than employees or people looking for jobs. Let me say it that way. 5 million more jobs than people looking for jobs. This year it's gone down. It's only two and a half million more jobs than people looking for jobs. So you can't afford to lose people just because you are not pouring into them. Because the more you pour into them, the more they pour into you.

A (20:03)

And when does that training start? So a company puts together a training pipeline. Is this something? Well, they've been here for a year now. Let's start like investing in them. What's your take on that?

B (20:12)

I was reading an article about a company that actually starts training after you've hired, been hired, but before you start. And I think you start from the beginning. I think most companies, their onboarding process is abysmal and people join companies, but they leave their managers. So how do we do multiple trainings, multiple exposing of brains so that the managers can continue to build the people? One of my favorite things is I work with leaders who create leaders. So many people are so focused on them and their job, but they don't pay as much attention to people around them unless they're not doing well. And it's incumbent upon those of us who are in leadership roles, whether you have the title or not, Ryan, to be teachers, to be coaches, to be trainers.

A (21:06)

It's so interesting when you talk about the whole day one or even pre training, but in the Navy they did a lot of studies into the success or failure of sailors that were checking into new units. And what they realized is that it was all about the first 72 hours. And so they created this amazing template for the first 72 hours of any sailor checking into a new vessel. And what those programs emphasized was who were they going to come into contact with, ensuring that the administrative and all the other things that need to get taken care of were already taken care of, that they already had a rack. So if they're going to a ship, they've got a rack on a ship making sure that there are sheets and pillows and. And this is simple stuff like sheets and pillows. How do you translate that into a company? Do they have the computer and the other things that they need? This is simple stuff. And we find even at Talon harbor, companies miss this every day. And it's like you spent so much time and money and resources, energy, effort to find the perfect person, you believe in them so much to bring them through the door, and then you just drop the ball. It's incredible. When you think about the first 72 or an onboarding program, we put something together as well. Like what are kind of the critical components that you think about, Especially with your background coming out of this corporate university and putting together training pipelines and things like that. What do you think is most important for onboarding success?

B (22:30)

One of the things that I incorporated or instituted, whatever the word is, when I really started this at my company is I created this simple one page, or I guess really two page back to back brochure on the front. It had their office number, their office address, their email, their phone number, all the stuff that about them. Then you open it up and there was a page that had to do with all the HR stuff they would need to do, who their contact is, all that stuff another panel talks about. Okay, so when you come here are the people who are on your team and what they do. Another panel is here are your customers or your clients, whether they are internal or external, that you need to get to know. And we've already scheduled two or three of them. It's your responsibility to schedule the rest. On another panel, we talk about their buddy because sometimes you don't want to ask your manager some questions. We gave them a buddy. And then the last panel, it was a simple map because it was a corporate building. So like, where are the bathrooms? Where do you go to eat food? So that one piece of paper had a lot of information that they needed. Then the next thing that we did is we gave them a training program. I think one of the things that you said about do they have a computer? Do they have a phone? Do they actually have an office? And office is loose.

A (24:03)

Yeah, yeah.

B (24:04)

But because of some of the corporate rules, you couldn't get it until the person started, which meant that they couldn't get it for two weeks after. It's ridiculous. So being able to work around what are the rules that you have in place in your company that are preventing your people from coming in and saying, oh my God, this was the greatest experience I ever had to start. There was some of my clients, which I think is just fun. A lot of people, when they leave the company will give them a party, you know, farewell, thank you. This client, one of the client in particular, they love to have the party when the person comes. So they welcome them with a party. We have the first week that they are in place. I had somebody that would give who's their lunch buddy. So they had five lunch buddies that first week. So they just to build connection, depending on what their position was. I had a list of here are the trainings, here's some of the things that you need to do online. And some of the trainings were here are the people that you need to meet. Go meet with them and then come back and talk to me about what were the questions that you asked. A lot of times I would have a kind of a pre training coaching session, say, look, here are the people, here's some of the things about them. I want you to find out this, this and this. And then what are you going to share with them? Because I thought it was as important for them to learn how to be relationship driven than it was for them to get in and do their work.

A (25:32)

I love that. That's probably one of the most comprehensive outlines I've heard. Like I love the a meal every day or a lunch buddy every day. The place that we took it is making sure that there's some sort of a sponsor. We call it a sponsor. And there's at least one sponsor. And you got to the heart of this, which is it's not the boss. It's someone that is like kind of equal level that they can ask the. There are no dumb questions, but there are simple questions that might not need to go to the boss. And so like that sponsorship is incredibly important. You just took it to a whole nother level where it's like, yeah, sure, there's a sponsorship and there's a peer, there's someone they can talk to, but they also have five lunches the first week where they're meeting someone else and then you put a little game into it of like, what did you learn from them and what's one thing that you want them to know about you that's brilliant. Do you think that because of your background in, in corporate. So I, I talked to a lot of business coaches and a lot of amazing EOS implementers and folks seem to like not gravitate, but they have a certain thing that is kind of their thing. Like if it's a visionary integrator relationship, like maybe they had a rough visionary integrated relationship. So they have all this experience and expertise of like how not to do it. Your background in like building a university inside of a corporation is this one thing that you really kind of help focus on is like systems and processes and like how can we set you up for success? Or do you just cover it all and you've got it for everything?

B (26:54)

I think it's funny because I'm a flaming visionary and so details are not my favorite thing. And I find that, well, because I had my own business before I went into corporate, so I had a different mindset than employee mindset. And then coming in, like I said, within two and a half, three months we were spun off. So you barely had time to get to know anybody in the great conglomeration of the mega corporation. And now all of a sudden you're spun off and it's like we're in a survival life raft. So you immediately start glomming on to people and what do you know and what do you think we should do? And it all became about problem solving and dreaming and leading right into my skill set of curiosity. And so I think that I started off with a different perspective, which I think helped me be a good employee slash leader and be ecstatic when I got to go off and be my own boss again. But I think one of the things being an entrepreneur than coming into a company, it's no different. The entrepreneur, my clients are outside. When you're an employee, your clients are inside. In the types of positions. I was chief of staff of legal for like eight, nine years and then I was chief of staff of HR for a year. My job was to pull all the hrs around the globe into one. And then I did the corporate university and so everything that all of my clients were internal. So what did they need for me to be able to communicate easily with them? How did they need me to be to grow them into what I saw the company could be, what the department.

A (28:37)

Could be if you didn't have that experience because like you are who you Are. So the fact that you're a 10 quick start, that didn't change whether you started out as an entrepreneur or not. But do you think that that perspective going in like really kind of changed maybe your perception or how you view life before you join the corporation or do you think like you would have been like that anyhow? It's just you had a little bit of an extra edge because you live through it.

B (29:03)

Interesting. Well, I think it certainly helped me be more strategic. Strengths finder strategy is my number one learner is number two. And no matter how many times I take it, those two are always the top two. So I'm always looking for how do we make this even better? Here's my dream now, how do we make it happen? And who do I need to get to make it happen? And how do I get them excited about doing this? Because I know as the 10 quick start that I am gung ho getting it started, getting everybody inspired, and then I'm bored and ready to move on. So I need people to keep it going. So I think it was innate in me. And I don't know if lucky is the right word or I just told the universe what I wanted and it gave it to me. But every job that I have had, both as an entrepreneur and a corporation, was something that I got to create. And so I didn't come into any position with it being prescribed for me. So I got to use my strengths.

A (30:08)

Yeah, and that was a bit of a self serving question as well, I'll admit, because I probably went through the opposite but then got there. And I'll explain that just very briefly, which is I enlisted at 17 years old. So my mom signed my permission slip and I shipped off the bootcamp. There's a longer story of how I got there, but that's what happened. So I skipped through entrepreneurship, but always wanted to be an entrepreneur. Always wanted to start my own business, but just couldn't figure out how to do it and was still young and undisciplined and all the other things. I spent about 12 years enlisted and I started a couple companies during that period and then I wound up getting a commissioning. But the time that I was going through the enlisted to commissioning program, I was running a company, so the Navy calls it the Seaman to Admiral program. State 21 started run for your lives. It grew very big. We had probably 50 employees. And so here I am, a young E5 that happens to be going to the University of Maryland, still active duty Navy and then running a company. And then we don't have to get into the company. It unfortunately just a tough lesson in just crash and burn. But then I got a commissioning and what was really interesting is the commissioning experience for me was completely different because one, I had the experience and expertise of being on the front lines. And so like I understood what it meant to be underneath of a helicopter the day before Thanksgiving, scrubbing the belly, getting soap in my mouth and my tongue going numb. Like I understood what it was like to be in a sailor's shoes. And I also understood how to run a company. And so it was so interesting what you just said there about like, it's almost like being able to build like champions around your ideas and around those things and getting them to a place of where they're self sustaining to walk away and go fix something else. Because that's what it sounds like you did is found a problem, fix the problem, got people motivated to continue fixing the problem and gave you the opportunity to go find another problem to solve. Yeah, yeah, it's great. One of the other things you talked about was employee mindset and a visionary mindset. What are the differences between those two?

B (32:03)

You might even be able to use the fixed and growth mindset. There are people out there who believe, like my grandparents, that you get a job, you stay with the job forever, you do exactly what the man asks you to do, and then as soon as you walk off, you are not involved at all. You don't think about it, you don't do anything about it. It's a paycheck and that's what you're there for. And to me, that's a fixed mindset. A person who has a growth mindset is insanely curious. They talk about how all leaders are readers, but not all readers are leaders. I think that's John Maxwell. And so to me, the people who have a growth mindset are the ones that want to know more. They want to know how I can apply that. So the visionary mindset is that I see connections. My big thing while I was in corporate, especially in the corporate university, was you have got to connect the dots between what we're teaching and their job. Because if you don't connect the dots, people always loved my classes, right? So yay, check. I had a fun day, thank you very much. But it made absolutely no difference whatsoever. That doesn't make me feel good. I don't want to be the entertainer and have you have a great class and then you forget about it. I really want you to be involved and okay, now how do I apply that to what I'm doing. So I think it's the same thing. I am constantly inspired by conversations and books and studies and articles and just different things connect in my head that people are like, I never would have thought of that. But like whoever came up with peanut butter and chocolate together, God bless them, right? Yes, I try to do the same thing in business. How do I connect this idea from over here to this idea so that they get something, oh, that's simple, that's something we can do. Not necessarily easy, but different way of looking at it. Reinvention is a word that I've been focusing on lately because so many of my clients are at that point where they have made growth and yet reinvention needs to happen. I was reading an article this morning and they were talking about, I think it was like by in 2020 or something like that, 52% of the companies that were in the Fortune 500 have changed. They've either gone out of business or they are much smaller. That's an astonishing number because for years they were doing surveys on how long it took for companies to feel like they needed to reinvent. And it used to be like decades. And before the pandemic it got down to like every three to five years. And now they were saying, I can't remember the exact percentage, but it's something like 60 something percent of companies feel like they need to do some sort of reinvention within nine to 12 months. That's shorter than a budget cycle. And so when you think about reinvention, I was like, what are you talking about there? And they were talking about soft kill meetings, like looking at our products, looking at our services. What do we need to kill so that we have room for something else? What are we holding onto? Because we've always held onto it. What is it that's actually making us money and what's not, what is moving us forward and what's not. And I find that fascinating that we are in such a fast paced world. The information that's being shoved at us, our brains are having a harder and harder time filtering through what it will let in and what it won't. And I think going back to my favorite word, curiosity, I think the people who are curious are the ones that are going to be successful, the ones who said, okay, I got on board with your change effort, but you're asking me to change again. There was this implicit belief that if I did a change, a transformation with you, you'd leave me alone for a couple of years. We can't do that today anymore. So how are we working with our employees?

A (36:12)

Do you think that this is a continuous thing? So like when you read that and it takes it from a decade or two down to nine months of disruption or reinvention, is this something that you see that should be on a certain interval or a certain frequency, or is this something that you think can be instilled and built inside the culture to where there's a continuous cycle of reinvention?

B (36:35)

Yeah, I think those are the companies, Ryan, that are going to be successful, the ones who just build it in. Because when I'm talking about reinvention, I don't mean you have to totally scrap everything you've done in your business and totally start over. But I think the idea of every year or so you look doing a look at all of your products and services, what's still serving us, what's still serving our clients? Every year I do a risk assessment of my clients. Who do I think is going to graduate? Who do I think is going to leave early? Who do I think will want to stay more? What's the likelihood of them getting acquired? I've had two clients in the last year that have been acquired. And so how does that impact so helping people get ready for all of that? But if I didn't do that, like earlier this year I had seven clients within a three week period that graduated, quit or got purchased. So if I hadn't done a risk assessment at the end of last year, it would have freaked me out, but I'd already started doing some business development around that. And so what's needed? Because I feel like we don't call ourselves consultants, but we're facilitators, coaches and trainers. I think it's incumbent upon me to understand what's going on in the world. Not necessarily all the industries, but like what are the big things that are happening in the world that I can talk to my clients about? So the swot, right? The strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, threats so it doesn't become so myopic that they start thinking about some of the bigger things that could impact them as well.

A (38:16)

That's great. You just stole my second question. I was about to go there because like everything you're talking about is like, well this, this sounds like either in addition to or replacement of swat, like maybe it's an enhancement. Like once you go through SWOT and you understand like what's the landscape, the threats, all these different things out there, then you run a soft kill meeting or a reinvention meeting and it's like layered on, using that data points and really thinking critically about, okay, well, we listed all of these things. What are we going to do about them?

B (38:46)

Right. I think it's important too, Ryan. One of the things I've started doing the last few months is not just having the executive team do the swot for the whole company, I think that's super important. But also having each department head do it for their department. And one of the things that I've started asking for, this really is something I just started about three months ago. I started asking each department head to tell me, what are the industry trends in your department? Like, what's going on in your industry for your department? Hr, operations, finance, whatever. And then the visionary tell us, what's the industry trends for your industry? So we get the big macro, but then we also get, here's what's going on with HR. We got 2.5 million more jobs than people looking for them. So hiring in every single one of my clients is the hardest thing for companies to deal with right now. What else is going on? And I think having that juxtaposition of both, here's the high level, but here's also how it's dealing in my department. And then how do we combine the swot of my department with the swot of the whole executive team? Are there things that we're aligned on? Are there gaps that we hadn't even thought about? It's a bigger awareness. And I really hesitated doing it, Ryan, because one of my favorite EOS phrases is one vision, one voice, one team. And I'm telling all of my teams what I'm trying to do is help them with their mindset in the very beginning that this executive team is your number one team. The team that you lead is your second team. So many of them come in with, this is my team. So I'm going to get what I need for them. And it's all about me and my team versus what's good for the company.

A (40:27)

Yep. I love the first team approach. And I've seen it on teams that I've led. I've seen that. I've seen where they're like, well, these are my people. And it's like, no, these are your people. We're solving the problems. And like, yes, that's your team, of course. And you want to care for your team. You want to do all of those things, but your first commitment is to this team here, and that's going to dictate the success. When you think about this, I don't want to Take us too far back, but you talked about the fixed in the growth mindset, and I'm curious, is there a place for both? So, like, do you want a whole bunch of growth mindset people running around the company or not? Just curious. And I swear to you, it's an innocent question because, like, as you were talking through it, I was like, I wonder if I want a whole bunch of growth or fixed. So what do you think there?

B (41:10)

Yeah, I think there are fewer leaders than there are employees. Same thing with this. You will have more of a fixed mindset in your employee base. And then the ones that have growth mindset will naturally roll up and you can work with the fixed mindset folks to a point where they are still willing to change. Here's the thing that I have found, Ryan, is that it's not that people are afraid of change, they are afraid of the unknown. So if we can help them with, this is why we're doing it. This is how it ties in and it makes sense. We've connected the dots. We need people who are consistent, who know their work, who we know every time it's going to come out this way. You need those people in your company. You don't need them in your leadership.

A (42:03)

Got it. All right. Someone's been listening to this podcast and they're like, I need Sandy to help me with my company. What do you look for? Like, what is your icp? I know somewhere, like, I only focus on family business. I. I focus on construction companies. Like, what is your ideal client?

B (42:18)

So from EOS perspective, my ideal client. I love working with family businesses. I have probably 85% of my companies are family businesses and have found that unintentionally. But I have found that I tend to get those who are transitioning from one generation to the next. So what's needed to help them be successful? I think that is a lot of fun. And then the industries that I have, I mean, EOS is industry agnostic and the ones that I tend to attract, I have a lot in the construction industry, not just the general contractors, but every aspect of construction. I have a lot in hospitality, which I think is really, it's just such a fun juxtaposition. And I think that the kind of clients that I love working with, that I attract are ones that, their hearts are big. Like one of the clients that I have in California, they are in the hospitality industry, which is not known for its benefits. For its employees. Yes, for leadership, not for employees. And they were one of the 5% of hotels that successfully came off of the corporate brand and became independent. And what I love what they did with the money is they turned it into best in class of benefits for their employees. So they could have done a whole lot of stuff with that money, but the fact that they turned it back and said, no, our employees really are our greatest assets and we're going to prove it. So that's what they chose to do. My clients have big hearts. They're looking beyond their company. How do we play in the community? How do we play in the world? I love that. Right. So the legacy is not just the family, but the people who work for you and the people who are in the community.

A (44:16)

And I heard you say California, but yet you live in Texas. So you are geographically agnostic too. It sounds like you'll take clients anywhere.

B (44:23)

Yeah, most of my clients are here in Texas, but yeah, I've got some in other locations. They happen to be a championship golf course and luxury resort, so I love going there.

A (44:36)

I was about to say that's a sweet deal. I can't imagine where you stay and what the conference room looks like.

B (44:41)

Yeah, it's nice.

A (44:43)

So if someone wants to get a hold of you, how do they find you? Sandy?

B (44:46)

Well, the easy thing is my website is apex catalyst group.com My email is Sandy Mitchell@eosworldwide.com and reach out, because I love EOS. I love what it does for our clients, and I love the juxtaposition of the people and the business systems working together.

A (45:08)

Awesome. Thank you so much for coming on. This was like a truly enlightening call and I loved the conversation and just all the different topics that we explored. I loved your background in the education or the university because it goes back to, like, taking care of your people. So I just wanted to thank you for coming on, sharing your wisdom and yeah, thanks.

B (45:26)

Thank you, Ryan. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

A (45:28)

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