Confessions of an Implementer

Episode: Why Hiring a Professional EOS Implementer Beats Self-Implementation

Host: Ryan Hogan (Talent Harbor)
Guest: Bill Hueter, Certified EOS Implementer
Date: June 5, 2024

Episode Overview

This episode features a deep-dive conversation between Ryan Hogan and Bill Hueter, focusing on the transformative power of the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) and why hiring a professional implementer can yield far superior results compared to self-implementation. Bill shares candid stories from his own entrepreneurial journey, lessons from leading his company through EOS, and practical insights gleaned both as a leader and a certified implementer. The discussion explores the nuances of hiring, team alignment, leadership transitions, facilitation styles, and the critical importance of organizational clarity and core values.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Challenge and Importance of Hiring the Right People

• Hiring Beyond Experience: Too often hiring is focused on experience & expertise, neglecting cultural fit and behavioral alignment.
  • Quote: “Organizations are simply a group of people united in solving problems around a common goal... and getting the people part right is the hardest part.” – Ryan (01:32)
• Cognitive and Behavioral Indicators: Bill and Ryan discuss moving beyond surface qualifications to hiring for cognitive and behavioral fit, using techniques like Critical Behavior Interviewing (CBI).
• Jack Welch’s 50/50 Hiring Coin Flip: Even legendary leaders struggle to get hiring right half the time, underscoring the complexity and stakes of talent selection.
  • Quote: “At the pinnacle, he said he got hiring right 50% of the time.” – Ryan (16:38)

2. Bill’s Entrepreneurial Journey and Hitting a “Ceiling”

• Company Background: IMS Expert Services (now IMS Legal Services)—founded in 2001, focused on headhunting expert witnesses for high-stakes litigation.
• Organic Growth and Stagnation: Grew by bootstrapping, made the Inc. 5000 list several years running, but eventually hit a revenue ceiling.
  • Quote: “We got to year nine, and then bam, we hit a ceiling. And the ceiling was, it was a revenue ceiling… we were going to go flat.” – Bill (02:49)
• Discovery of EOS: Introduced by their COO, who was also a Vistage facilitator. The team initially self-implemented the system.

3. Self-Implementation vs. Professional Implementation

• Benefits and Limitations of Self-Implementation:
  • Made solid progress, but lacked depth, discipline, and maximized tool usage.
  • Quote: “90% of people who implement EOS self-implement, and most of them don't get where they want to go.” – Bill (04:53)
• The Impact of a Certified Implementer:
  • Accelerates progress, removes bias, and brings deeper tool knowledge and outside perspective.
  • Quote: “If somebody comes in that has no history, has no baggage, knows the tools, and has done this with 50 or 100 clients, your ability to create traction is going to go much farther, much faster.” – Bill (13:16)
• Personal Experience with Professional Implementation: Ryan also shares that his company saw dramatic improvement after finally hiring an implementer.
  • Quote: “You just don’t know what you don’t know until you get someone that comes through and has that type of perspective.” – Ryan (07:08)

4. The Vision/Traction Organizer and Organizational Clarity

• From Implicit to Explicit Vision: The VTO tool helped make core purposes, values, and goals explicit and widely shared across the company.
  • Quote: “The core focus in the VTO allowed us to… lock it down crystal clear, so that not only did we as owners know it... but the rest of the team knew it.” – Bill (08:17)
• Leadership and Team Alignment: Real progress was marked by a unified team moving together with shared understanding and discipline.
  • Memorable Moment: The “rowing in the same direction” epiphany (10:00)
    • Quote: “For the first time in my life, I am a part of a company where everybody in this company is rowing in the same direction, at the same speed, at the same time for the same reason.” – Bill (10:40)

5. Navigating Right People, Right Seats

• Accountability Chart and Core Values:
  • The process of clarifying roles revealed the distinction between having the right people and having them in the right seats.
  • Often, clarity brings necessary but difficult team changes; Bill notes his situation was unusual in not requiring immediate leadership changes.
  • Highlights the importance of a visionary’s role in establishing and maintaining culture.
    • Quote: “Culture is one of the five roles of the visionary. Because they set it, they own it, they drive it, it's in their DNA.” – Bill (14:35)

6. Hiring for Core Values and Behavioral Fit

• Critical Behavior Interviewing (CBI)
  • Ask candidates for specific stories that demonstrate alignment with core values.
    • Quote: “When you bring someone to a specific instance of how they have or haven’t lived that core value in the past, then you gain a lot of insight about people that you’re interviewing.” – Bill (17:05)
  • Candidates who truly align with the values “light up” when discussing them.
• Hiring Experience vs. Cultural Fit
  • Traditional methods (like “Who: The A Method to Hiring”) focus on experience and performance, often missing deeper fit issues.
    • Quote: “This doesn’t look at the cognitive side of it. All this looks at is the performance side of it… And so the overwhelming issue was everything else would be on gut, it would be on feel.” – Ryan (19:10)

7. The Facilitator’s Style: Directness vs. Nurturing

• Different Styles in Facilitation
  • Bill positions himself as fairly direct but not a “drill sergeant,” emphasizing the importance of fit between client and implementer style.
    • Quote: “If that style doesn’t work for you, don’t hire me… it’ll be brain damage for both of us.” – Bill (22:25)
• Value of Directness
  • Being direct can drive quicker, more honest conversations and faster progress, but risks bruised egos if not handled thoughtfully.
  • Style should be discussed upfront for optimal partnership success.

8. The Value of Time and Decision-Making

• Hyperawareness of Time’s Value
  • Bill’s facilitation driven by being hyper-conscious of not wasting time; prefers short, productive discussions (“make a decision, move on”).
    • Quote: “I make a decision, I trust quickly. I get a set of facts and I make a decision quickly. In large part because I feel this sense of not wanting to go over it again and again and again.” – Bill (27:19)

9. Common Implementation Hurdles

• IDS (Identify, Discuss, Solve)
  • The hardest client habit to change is succinctly stating the root issue and avoiding lengthy context setting at the start.
  • Vulnerability is crucial for effective issue solving—but hard to cultivate.
    • Quote: “They got to learn to be open and honest and willing to be vulnerable. Because it’s in that openness and honesty and willingness to be vulnerable that the hardest issues come out and the hardest conversations are had.” – Bill (29:00)

10. Accountability, Scorecards, and the Difference Between Accountability & Responsibility

• Encouraging Objectivity
  • Emphasizes that missing targets isn’t an individual failing, but a collective problem to solve.
    • Quote: “Accountability means that you’re accountable to make sure that it gets done, but you don’t have to do all of the work. In some cases, you don’t have to do any of the work.” – Bill (31:15)

11. The Gap and the Gain

• Focus on Progress, Not Perfection
  • Drawing from Dan Sullivan's book, Bill encourages teams to look back on gains to appreciate progress, versus only seeing the “gap” ahead.
    • Quote: “What you need to teach them… is they should turn around 180 degrees and look backwards and say, here's the gain... take pride and joy in everything that has come before and has gotten you to where you are.” – Bill (32:13)

12. Lessons from Aviation Applied to EOS

• Preparation and Discipline Parallels
  • Like flying, great business “flights” require rigorous prep; Level 10 meetings are the “flight” and success depends on what’s done beforehand.
    • Quote: “You have better flights when you’ve done all your prep work… It’s the same thing in EOS. It makes you a better leader, a better member of a leadership team.” – Bill (37:00)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “For the first time in my life, I am a part of a company where everybody in this company is rowing in the same direction, at the same speed, at the same time for the same reason.” – Bill (10:40)
• “You just don’t know what you don’t know until you get someone that comes through and has that type of perspective.” – Ryan (07:08)
• “When you ask somebody about core values and ask them to give examples and it makes them light up, you know, you're hitting pay.” – Bill (20:40)
• “If that style doesn’t work for you, don’t hire me… it’ll be brain damage for both of us.” – Bill (22:25)
• “Make a decision, move on. Make a decision, move on.” – Bill (27:19)
• “It's not a personal attack... It's a company problem, not a Tom, Bill, Scott, Janine problem.” – Ryan (30:10)
• “If you do all of that ahead of time, you’re going to have a great Level 10. Well, it’s the same thing with flying…” – Bill (38:00)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:17 – Framing hiring challenges and the importance of cognitive/behavioral fit
• 02:49 – Bill describes hitting the growth ceiling and discovering EOS
• 04:53 – Self-implementation pros/cons and the difference with professional implementers
• 07:08 – Ryan’s story: transition from self-implementation to hiring a professional
• 10:40 – Bill’s “rowing in the same direction” moment
• 13:16 – The unique value a professional implementer brings
• 17:05–21:40 – Hiring for core values via Critical Behavior Interviewing (CBI)
• 22:25 – Bill’s direct facilitation style and importance of style fit
• 27:19 – Decision-making speed and respect for time
• 28:04 – IDS: hardest cultural habit to change
• 32:13 – The Gap and the Gain explained
• 37:00–39:40 – Correlations between aviation and EOS best practices

Conclusion

This episode offers a wealth of practical insight for business leaders considering or currently on the EOS journey. Bill Hueter’s experience spotlights both the immense value of EOS and the meaningful difference a professional implementer brings. Through stories, tactical advice, and reflective lessons, the conversation is a masterclass in people-centric operations, leadership clarity, and the discipline required to scale with purpose and momentum.

Contact Bill Hueter

• Email: Bill Hueter (h-u-e-t-e-r) @ eosworldwide.com
• Phone: 770-722-5412
• Core Value: “Help first—even if you don’t become a client, if there’s something I can do to help you gain some clarity and traction going forward, happy to do it.” (39:55)