← Confessions of an Implementer
Confessions of an Implementer
Why Saying "No" Builds a Better Business with Jonathan B. Smith
00:17:30
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- [00:00]
A
This is like your third appearance at this point. You're just hogging. You're just hogging the show. Third time.
- [00:06]
B
I just love being here with you, Ryan. So you give me the opportunity to hang out with you, I'll say yes.
- [00:12]
A
I love it. What's interesting is, like, every time you and I connect, and last time was in real life, which was incredible. I actually, I rewatched that episode, and it was just really well shot. There were so many lessons learned. And the real thing is, like, every time I walk away from one of our conversations, I'm like, man, I just learned so much. That's, like, the longest way of saying thanks for. Thanks for making your third appearance.
- [00:33]
B
Well, thanks for being my friend, Ryan. I need friends.
- [00:37]
A
I literally. You know what? I'm not going to take us down that tangent right now, but I had Alano on the podcast this morning. I literally talked about you and the genuineness of the relationships that have, like, come from these things. So thank you for being a friend, and it's been great knowing you for the last couple years, which has been awesome. All right, what we're here to talk about is you've got an event coming up, and I won't steer the thunder of what this is. It's a cohort of sorts. But talk to me about this event, because I want to get into maybe one or two of the things very specifically of, like, some of the things people are going to take away from when. When they attend.
- [01:15]
B
Well, so I created this Stay Curious Mastery cohort, and I call it Mastery because that's what it's about. How do you master becoming an EOS implementer? EOS is very good at teaching you how to deliver sessions, you know, having the format, having the material, having the brand. But the reality is, once you get your first five clients, there's a lot to going to build the business, and that's where I shine. And scaling things up, that's my preference in life. And as a result, I created this Stay Curious Mastery cohort. It really was an outgrowth of the fact that I always have an apprentice on my team in New York, and other people wanted to be apprentices from other parts of the world, and that was. Was not an option geographically. So we created a cohort to sort of recreate the apprentice experience, but. But virtually, well, physically in person for a while, but mostly through a virtual cohort experience.
- [02:15]
A
Yeah, I love that. And like, you've had. This isn't your first rodeo. You've had some incredible people that have gone through this and have gone on, we're already great humans and have gone on to do huge things. Rodney just actually Justin Times too, I think you had Justin Cook and Justin, Justin Mink, but you've got some incredible people that have gone through this. When you think about like the takeaways, like I always think about things in, in three uniques. Like EOS just like infiltrates my life at this point, but like the three uniques. And when you think about somebody that's coming into this cohort, which is upcoming in Denver in August, like what are, what are some of those takeaways? You talked about some of the problems when they walk away. What are, what are they taking away from the cohort?
- [03:01]
B
Consistently, we've been told they have much greater confidence and their ability to deliver sessions. They don't feel stuck with the idea of, well, how do I just deliver this session? Purely they walk in the session and say how do I deliver a session that gets the client what they need from their business? Because every client sort of open opens a session with a different set of issues. They're related to the EOS model, but you have to meet the client where they're at. So the confidence to actually meet the client where they're at, that's number one. So confidence number two, the ability to sell in a different way. This is not a business development cohort, but the idea is you're going to just show up differently and you're going to go build a business. I say pick the life you want and then let that being your EOS life and make sure your EOS practice supports that EOS life as opposed to just randomly taking clients all over the place, jumping on a plane and stressing yourself out, hoping the connection makes it there. That to me isn't my us life. And I want people to go build their EOS life. So we put some infrastructure in place to do that. And then the third thing is with a thousand EOS implementers out there, I think everyone needs to have a personal brand. So we built a whole, whole course, whole component around personal branding. And think about how you, you present yourself to the world and found that to be make a huge difference.
- [04:36]
A
I love that. And listen, I'm not getting in trouble on this podcast and getting into the purity of EOs. I will tell you this is from personal experience. And when we grew and scaled Hunt a killer, the hardest thing when we were self implementing was trying to follow the process to a T. And we were like, we, we're consumer product business. We've got different Methods like, it's just different and operates differently. And shout out to Margaret Dixon, who was able to meet us. You just said something so key, like able had the confidence to meet us where we were to be able to solve our challenges. And sometimes I realize this might be an unpopular topic, but sometimes it means, like, being able to modify, enhance, do things a little differently. And I think that's kind of what you're speaking to, is like the confidence to show up, be yourself, and meet the client where they're at. Is that. Is that summarized in in the most cryptic way ever?
- [05:35]
B
Well, first of all, I don't really care about getting in trouble. So that's one of my favorite things. So it's okay. We're not going to get in trouble. If we get in trouble, I'll take. I'll take the flack. Secondly, we say that 15% of delivering EOs is about how the content is structured, and 85% is about the magic of facilitation. So, yeah, we're going to try to follow the agenda. We're going to try to use all the tools as designed. We're going to try to make it look as described in traction. And the reality is everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the face. And every session we walk into, we get punched in the face. So we better be able to facilitate, just like Margaret did for you. Margaret's a star. And having an implementer who can do that for you and still understand and at the end of the day, land the plane and it still looks like eos. That's really what mastery looks like.
- [06:30]
A
When you talk about this magic, you talk about this confidence. And then one of the other things you talked about was this idea of first building the life you want, and then it sounds like unlocking the practice, unlocking the business to facilitate or achieve the life that you desire. What are some things that an EOS implementer would be experiencing right now where they're like, I need to be a part of this. It's like, this is happening or this is happening or this is not happening. Like, what are those things where you're like, hey, that. Like, that's why you got to come here.
- [07:09]
B
They thought getting another client was going to make them happier because they were going to make more money first. They continue to say yes, often to the wrong people. They lie to themselves that someone's a lead, when in fact they're not. So, you know, we have happy ears and we're like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. That person's gonna start with me. I can count on them. And I'm just like, well that client is hard, annoying, lame and frustrating. Per joke polish. And we are not gonna work with hard, annoying, lame and frustrating clients.
- [07:40]
A
The example that you just gave there of like, oh, this person's going to close. Person close. That's me. Like, you just basically described my entire Persona. So Alana's like, you say 100% of the clients are going to close. I would say she's like 80% there and I'm like 20% there because I'm like a yes to everybody. Sounds like I need to join your cohort, which we're sponsoring. So I'm excited to not participate, but come for lunch and hopefully learn some stuff. We've been talking about this a lot in internally, which is like identifying the right clients out of the gate. So when you talk about like, you know, saying yes to, to the wrong clients and it maybe may not making your life better or taking you to where you want to go, like, do you have a criteria or do you have like a checklist? Like how do you think about or how do you advise consultants, EOS implementers on like when to make the hard decision to say no to a prospective client?
- [08:35]
B
So what we have is a target market client. So target market is, look, it's like 10 to 250 employees, 2 to $50 million in revenue, growth oriented, open minded, appreciative, frustrated, want help, willing to learn, generally privately held. That's what EOS looks like. So first and foremost you have to say that. And a lot of times it's a psychographic issue. You're like, I just saw that guy kick his dog. Like when I walked in his office. Like, if he kicks his dog, he's gonna kick me. Cause the greatest predictor of future behavior is past behavior. So don't lie to yourself when that's happening. And you know, my target market is slightly different. Like, I'm like, can I do something that's really hard? And I'm gonna grow and I'm gonna learn from the business. And it's probably 25 to $500 million. And it's not a traditional EOS implementation. It may require negotiation skills, or I call it embedded advisor skills. But you know, I have 1500 sessions. So I just want to do different things at this point. So don't lie to yourself about what a good client looks like. If you don't want to work with lawyers, don't work with lawyers just because they called you and they wanted to wanted to work with you doesn't mean that's going to make an ideal client. And then you're stuck with them for two years. It's like you took the Hippocratic oath, the Hippocratic Eos oath, and now you have to help them fix their business, and they don't want to be compliant. So you're like, this is terrible.
- [10:11]
A
What's interesting about what you just said there, I just talked to Alana about this, and it was this idea of, like, how much you have to invest. We basically just recorded a podcast on how to activate, manage, create a partner channel. And we talked about the amount of investment that you have to make, because everybody wants instant results and they want it now. And it's like, if it's not working, then move to the next thing. And we frankly, like, we almost did that. And the hardest thing that we talked about was, like, saying. Saying no. And especially, like, when you're saying no when you need it. And I guess what I'm getting at there is when you're in the moment where you don't need it and you said no enough times, and you've got, like, the perfect client base. You're like, this is. This is how I drew up the plan. And the hardest part is when you're in that. That suck zone of, like, you don't have enough clients, you're saying yes to everybody. But you and I both know that the more you say yes to the wrong clients, the more time that you're investing into the wrong clients and not getting what it is. And so I guess, like, how do we convey to people of. Because it's a big leap of faith. Like, how do we. How do we convey to people that, like, yes, you're saying no now, but it's going to open up the space, the capacity, everything for the life and the future that you want.
- [11:29]
B
Saying yes now is like putting more on your credit cards and not paying your credit cards off monthly. You're gonna pay the price later. You're basically mortgaging your future freedom. It's not easy. It takes discipline. But the reality is, like, I would just rather say no now and. And you have fantastic clients in the future who, who I love working with and having lots of fun with.
- [11:56]
A
When you talk about, like, saying no now, and you talked about this a little bit earlier of, like, you know, you get to five clients, you're like, oh, crap, like, now. Now I've got a real business or real practice. I've got something I really have to. To manage at this point, what does that growth journey look like? You know, like, you talked a little bit about, like, yes, this is not a. This is not a necessarily like, you know, growth hacking your practice. That's not the concentration. It sounds like your cohort, the program that you put together is really the holistic approach. Like, what do you want out of life and how are we going to kind of build this practice around. Around your own goals, but a little bit on that, that growth strategy of like, you know, someone's at 5 or someone's at 7 and. And they want 15 to 20 active clients. Like, what are some of those tips and tricks to help them think through how to start to grow their practice?
- [12:50]
B
People get. Walt Brown says, why do people stop doing what's working? Because it's working. So the idea here is, I think of an EOS practice, like, it's like a little rowboat. You're like rowing this little rowboat and you can only row it so fast. Like, I don't have any, you know, those super crazy outboard engines on it where I can pour jet, jet fuel or racing fuel right in it. But like, the growth hacking is like, oh, let's pull jet fuel in. You might blow an engine in a, in an EOS rowboat. You're just like rowing the boat. If you follow the practice and you follow the process and you find the right clients, great work begets great work. You actually, if you do great work for someone, you'll get three more clients. You just don't know which clients are going to refer. But you just have to keep your head down and focus on doing great work and focus on having great relationships and it works. And stop thinking that you can go to take an Instagram course over the weekend and just charge people for the same crappy template. Don't be a page turner is what we say. Most people at this point look at it and say, well, I can turn the page myself too. That's not what I need. We have. Part of our pledge says, don't be a page turner.
- [14:09]
A
I love it. I just talked to Derek Smith, my former co founder. Hunt a killer. Run for your lives. We were talking a few weeks ago and he was like, hey, are you worried right now with AI? And there's going to be no such thing as entrepreneurship and everything else. And I'm like, one thing that's remained consistent regardless of innovations and technologies and everything else, it's the people that are focused and consistently executing against a common goal. Like, those are the people that are successful. It's not the person that's like chasing the next shiny object or moving in a thousand different directions. It's the people that are incredibly focused. And that's kind of what I heard you just say. There is like you say yes to the right clients that get you more clients. You do great work, you focus on these things and you consistently do it over a long period of time and you will be successful.
- [15:00]
B
And you create a moat for yourself because you can't do 1500 sessions with the ability to pull skills from all sorts of things. That's why we say, you know, EOS purity. I'm like, sometimes there's this hostage negotiation skill I need in session that isn't interaction, that's facilitation skill or some tool that I learned somewhere else that will my client would need. So we do it. But I think it creates a moat. It's a pretty big moat and I think having confidence in knowing who you are. So like Rodney, I'm like, Rodney, you're like world class coach, just lead with it. I'm like talking to Chris McCarty. I'm like, you are a professional golfer. Go play golf with CEOs and make sure they have their best golf game of their life playing with you and they need you as their coach.
- [15:54]
A
I love that. And that, that kind of goes back to your, your earlier thing of also like being yourself, like bringing yourself into the session room. I agree with you with Rodney. Chris. I was just texting yesterday. I think I'm taking him as a part of the Denver trip. I'm going to take him out to play some golf. I don't know if you play golf, but I'll take you out too. Talk to me about like when is the cohort? How do people register? Give the details.
- [16:23]
B
So the cohort is August 19th in Denver the day before the EOS QCE. We have dinner the night before. Someone might get lucky and sit next to you and drink some good wine. So on the 18th we have dinner. The 19th we have an all day cohort. The EOS QCE is on the 20th. The link to the cohort we'll put in the show notes but it's staycuriousjbs.com and then it's staycurious staycurious cohort. So that's where you can actually find details for it. And if you want to transform your life and transform your practice, it's the right place to go.
- [17:04]
A
There it is. There it is. If you want to learn more of this, show up. If you want to meet jbs, show up. And then if you want to. Have you said wine? Sit next to me on the bus. We won't listen. We can only talk about so much stuff about that bus.
- [17:18]
B
The bus is always going to have a stripper pole.
- [17:19]
A
So you just don't care.
- [17:23]
B
Okay.
- [17:23]
A
All right. JVs, thank you so much for coming on.
- [17:27]
B
Thanks, Ryan.
- [17:28]
A
Appreciate you.
- [17:29]
B
See you, buddy.