I Confess... I'm Leaving

Summary

Podcast Summary: Confessions of an Interior Designer

Episode: I Confess... I'm Leaving

Host: Caroline Turner
Guest: Gracie Miller
Date: February 18, 2026

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Overview

In this heartfelt and candid episode recorded from Paris, Caroline Turner and her long-time right hand, Gracie Miller, break format to share their own stories, reflecting on Gracie's impending departure from Caroline Turner Interiors after five years. Instead of unpacking anonymous confessions, the duo reminisces about the firm's journey, the highs and lows of working in luxury design, and the unique bond they've forged as co-workers and friends. The episode is as much a tribute to growth, mentorship, and friendship as it is an insider’s look at the rhythm of an evolving creative business.

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Setting the Scene (00:04–03:00)

• The episode opens with Caroline introducing the special nature of this recording: no anonymous confessions, just personal stories.
  • Caroline: “No confessions, except our own.” (00:11)
• The two record from their Paris hotel room during Deco Off. The mood is light, with inside jokes about bathrobes, sunglasses, and champagne.
• Gracie’s first time in Paris, also her first as a fiancée, is celebrated with laughter and warmth.

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Gracie’s Farewell & Business Reflections (03:00–07:00)

• Caroline shares that Gracie, her creative partner and close friend, is leaving the company.
  • Caroline: “It is going to be very difficult to unglue from each other, I think.” (03:00)
  • Gracie: “Five years is crazy to say out loud.” (03:22)
• The conversation quickly becomes emotional as both express gratitude and reflect on their growth together:
  • Gracie: “You’ve been so much more than a mentor to me… I know we’re parting ways, but… you are definitely in my life forever.” (04:17)
  • Caroline: “We started in my dining room… a complete and total hot mess.” (03:55; 04:01)
• Hints at Gracie’s own future firm, Caroline’s gentle encouragement, and the realities of timing personal milestones with career ambition.
  • Caroline: “You can do it. I know I can do it…” (05:00)

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On Mentorship, Leadership & Company Culture (06:41–16:22)

• The discussion turns to being a good boss, with both sharing how past negative experiences shaped their management philosophy.
  • Caroline: “Having a bad boss taught me so, so much.” (05:21)
• Gracie credits Caroline for giving her creative freedom and the push needed to grow:
  • Gracie: “You gave me the freedom… you saw something in me that I didn’t see… I will forever be grateful.” (05:47–06:24)
• Reflections on “trial by fire” moments, first-day anecdotes, and how the business scaled from working out of Caroline’s home to a legitimate office.
  • Gracie: “One of my favorite days… Caroline was out of town and I was managing her bathroom renovation… hadn’t even met you yet!” (08:27)
• They highlight the special chemistry and fun they brought to client relationships; their dynamic duo status is noted by clients.

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Lessons From Growing a Design Firm (12:04–17:44)

• The challenge and reward of making big leaps—hiring employees, investing in office space—are explored.
  • Caroline: “If we hadn’t taken that step, probably earlier than we should have…” (12:38)
• The importance of hiring people who are eager to learn, willing to do the “gritty jobs,” and who take real ownership—something Gracie embodied.
  • Gracie: “I wanted to learn every aspect of this business… I just wanted to be in every single part.” (14:19–14:42)
• A humorous exchange about the confusion caused by multiple employees named Grace or Gracie.

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Advice for Aspiring Designers & Real-World Lessons (17:44–23:01)

• Gracie’s key advice for junior designers:
  • Be “very hungry” and open to learning everything, including unpleasant tasks.
  • Gracie: “You have to fail to be successful… be open to doing any job, even if it seems stupid.” (18:23)
  • Take copious notes, even when you think it isn’t necessary.
• Emphasis on humility, willingness to look “like an idiot” in front of contractors or on-site.
• The power of verbalizing uncertainty or fears in a workplace—Caroline stresses the importance of communication between boss and employee.
  • Caroline: “If you’re verbalizing that you’re concerned… I need to know that.” (21:13)

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Building a Collaborative & Healthy Work Dynamic (23:42–31:42)

• Caroline and Gracie discuss how the best creative results come from collaboration and flat hierarchies.
  • Caroline: “Design is a collaborative animal… you kind of have to be with other creative people.” (24:06)
• Caroline shares memories of her mentorship with Kelly Wearstler, emphasizing the importance of “generous creativity.”
  • Caroline: “I learned… how to have generous creativity, because it makes a better product.” (25:31)
• Examples of how Gracie was granted early, real responsibility, like managing a mosaic floor as an intern.
• Both acknowledge the value—and the rarity—of being trusted with big tasks early in their careers.

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Preparing for Independence & What’s Next (27:18–32:06)

• Gracie identifies needing to focus on proposals, money management, and business process as her next growth area:
  • Gracie: “I feel very confident in the whole design side… I need to know more about the business side.” (27:18)
  • Caroline: “It’s not even math. It’s money… If you can pull them apart, it gets a lot easier.” (28:48)
• Reflection on how both have grown into their roles, with Gracie now handling meetings and client communication independently.
  • Caroline: “I will ask you to do something, and you’ll say, already done… how is that possible?” (31:49)
• Light banter about what Caroline will do without her, and the unique synergy that’s difficult to replicate.

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Honest Reflections & Their Strong Bond (32:06–46:32)

Memorable Moments & Vulnerability

• Gracie asks Caroline when she was the “maddest” at her; Caroline recalls a specific workplace incident—handled with honesty, vulnerability, and quick forgiveness.
  • Caroline: “If people take responsibility, I will not be mad.” (34:05)
• Caroline asks Gracie the same in return; Gracie shares a travel meltdown story from Florence airport.
  • Gracie: “Probably when we were in Florence at the airport… you got upset… I was like, I can’t take this.” (35:21)

Favorite Memories

• Top personal and work highlights:
  • Gracie: “Top two would be us going to Italy for sure… that trip was so spectacular.” (38:28)
  • The Noah Kahan concert in Chicago.
  • Their collaborative commercial project, The Fits, which was a major source of pride.
    • Gracie: “That’s my proudest project by far.” (40:39)

On Healthy Work Relationships

• They discuss how their gratitude for each other and ongoing communication has been central to their happiness and success at work.
  • Caroline: “If you don’t, this is actually how we are… we are this annoying.” (41:51–41:55)

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Constructive Criticism & Personal Growth (42:30–49:09)

• Caroline invites Gracie to give her honest feedback as a boss; Gracie gently notes that Caroline can let negative emotions take over at times:
  • Gracie: “When you get upset, it almost takes over your brain for a minute… it’s hard to see past it.” (42:46)
• They talk through how pressure from clients, people-pleasing tendencies, and generational differences affect emotional boundaries at work.
  • Caroline: “That’s something I really admire about Gen Z… the ability to put a wall up.” (44:08)
• They recognize the importance of self-care and keeping job pressure in perspective, joking about how sometimes designers “act like brain surgeons.”
• Both agree that passionate investment in the work is a double-edged sword—it’s rewarding, but can be emotionally taxing if not managed.

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Closure, Legacy, and Looking Ahead (49:09–End)

• Caroline shares that some of the podcast’s past anonymous confessions were actually her own, teasing listeners to guess which ones.
  • Caroline: “There are a couple stories over the last two seasons that are mine, that are my confessions…” (49:25)
• Final thoughts about the reality of the stories on the podcast—they’re real, not exaggerated for content.
• Caroline and Gracie look ahead: Gracie is excited to apply what she’s learned at a new firm, eventually hopes to helm her own business. Caroline expresses pride and support, suggesting "CCI Southeast" as a future possibility.
  • Caroline: “When you’re ready, tell me, and I’ll make sure I support your growth.” (51:41)
• Emotional recognition of Gracie’s legacy at the firm:
  • Caroline: “You feel really, really good that you’re that valuable to so many other people, not just in our internal team.” (52:50)
• The two end on a high note, expressing gratitude, reflecting on the deep personal and professional impact they’ve had on one another, and sharing inside jokes about the possibility of a company jet and shopping at Paris fleamarkets.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “You’ve been so much more than a mentor to me… you are definitely in my life forever.” – Gracie (04:17)
• “Having a bad boss taught me so, so much.” – Caroline (05:21)
• “I wanted to learn every aspect of this business… even if at the time I didn’t think I was going to start my own thing.” – Gracie (14:19–14:42)
• “You have to fail to be successful… be open to doing any type of job, even if it seems stupid.” – Gracie (18:23)
• “Design is a collaborative animal… you kind of have to be with other collaborative and creative people for it to [work].” – Caroline (24:06)
• “If people take responsibility, I will not be mad.” – Caroline (34:05)
• “Top two would be us going to Italy for sure… that trip was just so spectacular.” – Gracie (38:28)
• “When you get upset, it almost takes over your brain for a minute… it’s hard to see past it.” – Gracie (42:46)

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Key Takeaways

• The reality of growing a creative business means improvising, trusting your team, and embracing vulnerability—trial by fire builds resilience.
• True mentorship and team dynamics can profoundly shape individual careers, company culture, and creative output.
• Willingness to learn, take risks, fail, and be transparent about mistakes are all essential in creative industries.
• Work relationships that blend professionalism with genuine friendship are rare and valuable, and should be treasured.
• Success in design (and business) depends as much on communication, honesty, and self-care as on aesthetic skill.

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Listen for:

• Behind-the-scenes stories about “growing up” in the business together, from managing renovations to signing expensive leases.
• A rare, real conversation on the fears, nerves, and mistakes made along the way—plus all the big laughs and tender moments that come with them.

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Episode wrap-up:
A thoroughly engaging, funny, and moving episode that reveals the heart at the center of Caroline Turner Interiors—and illustrates why “Confessions of an Interior Designer” is such a beloved, authentic look at the industry. This conversation is a masterclass in professional vulnerability, mentorship, and mutual respect, and will resonate with anyone navigating growth, change, and creative partnership.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Confessions of an Interior Designer. I'm your host, Caroline Turner. Here we talk through the crazy stories that they certainly don't tell you in design school, because, let's face it, every space has its sins. Are you ready to hear confession? Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Confessions of an Interior Designer. We're so excited because this is a very special episode. No Confessions, except our own. We are currently in Paris. You may hear the seagulls. Weirdly, we can't really figure that part out, but. And I am with Gracie Miller, who you may remember from last season, the mastermind behind it. And we are in Paris together.

[B]

And we're. Yes.

[A]

We are so excited to do our own little mini capsule episode. Yes. Um, so, yeah, let's jump right in.

[B]

Cheers to that.

[A]

Cheers to that.

[B]

Yay.

[A]

Okay, so, as we said, we're in Paris currently for Deco off, which has been incredibly fun. So, so, so, so amazing. Like, we've had the best time ever. We travel really well together.

[B]

We do. Yes, we do.

[A]

We like all the same things.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So it's really fun. We're going to see the Eiffel Tower sparkle tonight.

[B]

Very excited about this. This is my first time in Paris, too.

[A]

Duh. That's very important to know. And it's her first time in Paris as a fiance.

[B]

It is.

[A]

Because she just got engaged.

[B]

Which. Hold that.

[A]

Rock up to the camera. Maybe we'll clip that.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

Also, if you're watching this on clips ever, I want to address a couple things. Number one, yes, we are in matching bathrobes. Duh. Number two, yes, we're wearing sunglasses inside.

[B]

And yes, we have towels on our head.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Also, we are in be.

[A]

We're in between things, and we have to go to an event tonight. So we were like. We showered and we're like, well, let's just do it.

[B]

Let's just.

[A]

From bed. Hello. Okay. One other thing I want to address is that you may see me holding a glass of champagne, which, if you listen to the show, you know, I say I don't drink, which is true majority of the time. What I don't typically go into on the pod is that I actually do drink wine occasionally when I'm in Europe, namely Paris and Italy.

[B]

Yes. Cause how would you not?

[A]

Right.

[B]

And we're in the land of champagne, obviously.

[A]

Well. And the reason I stopped drinking in the United States was my hangovers were just way too gnarly. The anxiety was insane. And here I just don't experience that.

[B]

It's amazing.

[A]

If the reason I stopped drinking, I don't experience here. I don't see why not. But I wanted to address it because I know that's kind of. What?

[B]

A little confusing.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. And it's. Yeah, I understand. Anyway. Okay, moving on. The reason that we are doing this very special episode, other than just being together in Paris, is that Gracie will soon be leaving us.

[B]

I am.

[A]

Which is very sad.

[B]

I am.

[A]

If you know us in person, you probably already know this.

[B]

We are a dynamic duo.

[A]

We absolutely are. It is going to be very difficult to unglue from each other, I think. But we just thought it could be interesting. After five years, it's not an exit interview necessarily. It's just kind of impactful to just chat through.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The last five years and five years, what's coming up for you, which is really exciting.

[B]

Five years is crazy to say out loud. Like, I cannot believe it's already been five years.

[A]

I can't believe I'm old enough to have had an employee for five years. That doesn't feel right to me. Oh, my goodness.

[B]

But, yeah, I mean, it's been an incredible five years. I am just. I don't even have the words to thank you for all that you've done.

[A]

And that's not what this is supposed to be.

[B]

No, not at all. But just, like, the mentor you've been to me, the best friend you've been to to me.

[A]

Like, don't make me cry.

[B]

Say, don't make me cry. I love you.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But we've grown up so much together.

[A]

That was just what I was going to say, is that we started in my dining room.

[B]

Literally, in your dining room.

[A]

My hot mess.

[B]

It's a sofa. Like, oh, my goodness. A complete and total hot mess.

[A]

So far. Together so far. And I would not have come this far if it weren't for you and the rest of the team.

[B]

And it's like, I am just.

[A]

We're really lucky to have found each other.

[B]

I'm so lucky. I'm so blessed. I mean, like I said, like, you've been so much more than a mentor to me. Like, it's just like, I know we're parting ways, but we're not actually part of my life. No.

[A]

Not in life.

[B]

You are definitely in my life for the rest of the year. Forever.

[A]

And, like, sorry, you don't have a say.

[B]

Well, and also, we're going on many more trips together.

[A]

She's threatening me. This is not your life.

[B]

Depends. Me. We're coming back.

[A]

Which, hopefully, she's gonna start her own firm, and then we'll get to come back together in her own firm soon. Eventually. This is not an announcement. That is just me pressuring her into doing it.

[B]

Yeah. No one freak out yet. I'm not doing it yet, but it could be in the works in a couple years, maybe. Yeah.

[A]

You never know.

[B]

I mean, you've taught me so much. I could.

[A]

You can do it. I know I can do it, but there's also. I understand there's a lot of liability. There's a lot of, like, responsibility that can be done.

[B]

And you're just such an amazing boss. I just, like, don't know if I could ever.

[A]

You can.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

It's actually one thing I've learned is it's actually not that hard to be a good boss.

[B]

Well, you are exceptional at it, truly.

[A]

Thanks. I put a lot of effort into it, as you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, it's one of my biggest priorities.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I also think having a bad boss. This is not me, like, saying, go out and have a bad boss, but kind of like having a bad boss taught me so, so much.

[B]

I know, and I feel like we talked about that in the beginning a lot because, I mean, like, you were what, when I turned 24, I was 20. 21. Or. No, that's 22. 22.

[A]

Is that right? I must have been 20. I was 25 by the time you came on. I started the company at 24. I was 25. Cause we're so. I was about 22, 22.

[B]

So, like, I came straight out of college like, I didn't know what to expect. I hadn't had an under boss. And so seeing how you navigated that, you know, starting your business, you'd already had it for a little while. You had Sam on the team already. And just seeing how, you know, you navigated hiring me and the creative liberty you gave me, the freedom you gave me to actually, you know, you didn't throw me to the wolves by any means, but in a way, like you did, because you saw something in me that I didn't see. And I will forever be so grateful for that. Because if you asked me five years ago if I was gonna start my own firm, I'd be like, never. You're insane.

[A]

And in fact, you've said it most of these years that you're never going back.

[B]

But it's like, what you've taught me, I know I could actually do it, but it's just.

[A]

You can do it.

[B]

I gotta actually do it. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, there's a lot of moving parts, but you absolutely can do it. And you will. When it's right for you.

[B]

Yeah. I think when it's the right time.

[A]

Yeah. Timing is everything.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And I think there's priorities in all phases of life, and you can't prioritize too many things at once.

[B]

Right. Cause, I mean, moving and a wedding.

[A]

And then potentially having babies is like.

[B]

Oh, my plate is getting a bit.

[A]

Bit full.

[B]

A bit full.

[A]

And that's fair. Yeah, that's fair.

[B]

Fair.

[A]

Here's a confession I know a lot of you can relate to. For years, I told myself I had my project management under control. Sure, I had 30 different tabs, docs, and emails open at once. And yes, I'd occasionally panic, search for a specification at midnight. But I was still managing. Right. Then I tried Programa, and I realized I wasn't managing. I was just surviving. And barely. When I demoed the platform, I was most impressed by their incredible AI web clipper that pulls every single spec from a supplier's webpage straight into your product schedule. We're talking product details, dimensions, pricing, finishes, everything captured in seconds instead of the hours we used to spend copying and pasting into spreadsheets. It saves me so much time, and most importantly, it's given me back the headspace to actually focus on design instead of drowning in admin. So here's my advice. If you're serious about streamlining your design business and actually reclaiming some time in your day, head to programa.design and use code CONFESSIONS25 to get 25% off your annual subscription. Trust me, you'll wonder how you ever managed without it. Without it.

[B]

Oh, my God. I don't even know where to start. Like, where do we even start from?

[A]

From the last five years. Okay, well, I have a question. Okay, well, actually, I don't really know if it's a question. I want you to tell the story of the first day of the job.

[B]

Oh, my God. This is one of my favorite days. The first day of my job. Caroline was out of town.

[A]

Yes, that's true.

[B]

And she was renovating her bathroom. And guess who managed that?

[A]

Gracie did.

[B]

Moi? Had I ever done that? No. Had I ever been in someone's house by myself? She said she didn't throw me to the wolves.

[A]

And then this is.

[B]

Hey, so I'm actually renovating my whole bathroom. I need you to go oversee it. And I'm like, I haven't even met you yet.

[A]

Listen, I do really feel like it's good to know what you can handle. And so it was a Bit of like a trial by fire. No.

[B]

Literally couldn't get the lockbox open. The contractor had to stand. He was like, are you supposed to be here? And I'm like, I think so.

[A]

I actually. Maybe not.

[B]

Maybe not actually, but that was like our first day once I got to Chicago. And then our first day once you were back. We went to a client's house because we were shooting it, I think a couple weeks later. So we went to do like a little pre shoot, kind of walk through, and then we had lunch and we just kind of like chatted about the business and then we went and got our nails done together.

[A]

Oh, my God, we did.

[B]

Do you remember that?

[A]

Yeah, not at all.

[B]

We went and got manicures on my first day.

[A]

Oh my God. I remember that job.

[B]

Literally I was like, oh, so this is how we do it. This is the job. This is the real world.

[A]

Which is so funny because we've literally never done.

[B]

Not ever again since have never gotten our nails done together. But like, it was just such a perfect day. Cause it just like shows really sweet, like how quickly and how easily we clicked.

[A]

Clicked.

[B]

And I just like knew from there I was like, this is gonna be. This is gonna be a good, A good job. And I mean, we've only gotten closer since.

[A]

I mean, we've also only gotten busier. So I feel like it's like as time has gone on, we have had to figure out how to like shift work into like the almost every single minute of the day and still, like, have fun, have a relationship and have.

[B]

Fun and not making things outside of work. Yeah.

[A]

And every time we do, we're like, oh, my God, that was our favorite thing we did that year or whatever it is. So I'm always glad we did. But the busier you get, the more quote unquote successful you get.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Sometimes it's like, actually we're not having as much fun as you can, but.

[B]

We love to have fun. So we do try to.

[A]

We do try to squeeze it in where we can. I just feel like I need to prioritize that more as we grow. It's hard. It's like easy to just be like, well, billable hours. And we have to get to this point, you know?

[B]

Well, yeah. And especially now. Cause I mean, like when I started again, we were in your house. Like, we were working on.

[A]

I had zero dollars.

[B]

Yeah. We were working on one room projects. Like, everything was so scaled back compared to where we are now, which also, like, can we take a moment like where you are right now is so fucking impressive. Like, it's insane where we are, but you as a boss, you, like, this is your company. The way you have just grown and I've been able to be a part of it. Like, it's just insane. Like, it's so. Like, I'm so glad to be a part of it.

[A]

Like, it means so much. I love you. Well, what I was gonna say is that we wouldn't be here without you. Because you know, how many clients are. Like, you and Gracie are just so much fun. Like, I love when it's you and Gracie package deal. Like, I think, you know, we're sort of.

[B]

Yeah. Even our own see like a rapport 1000 relationship.

[A]

I have to be honest, that is part of one of the things I'm most nervous about. Which obviously all of the other women who work with us are also incredible. We just have had so much time.

[B]

Right. I think that's the other thing with.

[A]

Us for so long. But she's in la, right?

[B]

So she's not here every single day.

[A]

And like, she's not in clients homes.

[B]

We were working together in one room, like forever. Went and looked at offices together, like.

[A]

All the big steps we needed to.

[B]

I've been able to be a part of.

[A]

It's so funny because in the beginning we would be making these insanely big business decisions and I'd be like, so, what do you think?

[B]

And I'm like freshly 23 and I'm like, I don't even know how to pay my taxes, like, let alone tell you what you should do with the business. But of course I was like, yeah, do it.

[A]

We have to. Actually, you really were the one. You were like, caroline, we have to have an office.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It will legitimize us. We are like at the point where we have to make the leap. And it's so funny because the rent is so landlord. Nevermind.

[B]

It's not cheap.

[A]

It's fine.

[B]

It's fine.

[A]

But like, I mean, I don't think he listens.

[B]

But, like, I don't think he listens. Listen.

[A]

I'm now paying double the rent because we expanded. So, like, it's expensive now. But at the time it felt like a trillion million dollars to rent this place. And it was almost like magic. Like the fact that we took the leap. We then got really big clients that we could have never met with in my home. And if we hadn't like taken that step probably earlier than we should have.

[B]

It's a big difference. Yep. We were able to have meetings, like.

[A]

At the office parties and all kinds of event meetings.

[B]

Yeah. Like, it was just like. Yeah. Like you said, it legitimized you so much more. And that's a scary leap to do. It is. It's very scary when you've just hired on a new employee. Like, I mean, yeah, we didn't have the second space at the time, but I mean, we'd always talked about getting a second space and like. Yeah, like, it's just.

[A]

We knew we were growing out of it. What's interesting is that, like, I think a lot of people don't necessarily know that we were. It was just you and I for so long.

[B]

For a very long time.

[A]

For years.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, yeah, we have until like last year.

[A]

Yeah. We have a bigger team now. And like we have had marketing, Marketing people come and go, but it's not like it's been the life of the company.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's taken a while to get there.

[B]

It has, yeah. But I think we've done it in the perfect amount of time.

[A]

Yeah, I agree.

[B]

The steps are all coming like, when they should. Right. It's all working out when it should.

[A]

Now we just have to find.

[B]

Now you have to find a new me. I know.

[A]

If anyone's looking at me like I sound exactly like her, hit me up and email me. Actually email her.

[B]

Email me.

[A]

I'll interview and then remember that that's part of your job when you start.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

We need a group C 2.0 and nothing is your job. Like, it's all. It's all your job.

[B]

I mean. Yeah. And I think that was the other thing too, is not to toot my own horn, but you were very smart in hiring someone that was so hungry to learn and that like, I always wanted to be thrown in the fire. I wanted to do anything because I was like, I want to learn every aspect of this business. Even if at the time I didn't think I was going to start my own thing, I still, like, I just wanted to be.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

In every single part. Because even if, you know, like now, of course, like we have different roles. Yeah.

[A]

And it's much more like split. And we're trying to have like really good work life balance when we can.

[B]

But like at the time I like almost wanted that. Like, I wanted to work was our.

[A]

Work and our work was our life.

[B]

Yes, exactly.

[A]

I also think that like hiring on more employees.

[B]

Yeah. That's another thing.

[A]

I mean, that's something that we're currently doing.

[B]

Well, that too. And like, I feel like that was such a big Step for us, too. Cause we talked about so for so long, like, is it time to hire someone else? Can we do this? Is it gonna make sense? And, yeah, it was very scary. We started with interns, which is great. It kind of gave us the feel of, you know, what it would be.

[A]

Like, who we need, what skillset we need.

[B]

Yeah. What help do we need? How do we restructure this to where everything's more efficient, everything's more easier, and. Yeah.

[A]

We found a unicorn.

[B]

We did found a unicorn. Shout out. Grace. She is.

[A]

She's Gracie. And the other one.

[B]

Yeah. So that's confusing. Sorry. You're welcome, future clients. When I leave, you're not gonna have to worry about that.

[A]

Luckily, there's no longer two Graces.

[B]

Well, unless you find. Yeah, unless you find another Grace.

[A]

Okay, we can't do that. So if your name is Grace, you're just really fine. Because.

[B]

Yikes.

[A]

That would just end up looking like.

[B]

I have a problem. Or you have to go by your middle name.

[A]

Spanish for Graces or something like that would be. I also keep trying to not hire blondes, and I accidentally keep hiring blondes.

[B]

Well. And she's gone more brunette now. So. She has.

[A]

She is reading more brunette.

[B]

She came in blonde, and I was blonde.

[A]

And every contractor thinks they're the same person.

[B]

Yeah. And at this point, we just basically reply to both of it.

[A]

100%, I'll be gracious and gracious whatever. Doesn't even matter.

[B]

Whatever. What are you gonna do?

[A]

Okay, but what I was gonna say is that I think something that I haven't always verbalized is that you have really put so much of, like, your energy and, like, feeling of ownership, which I really try to instill. But, like, it is very admirable that you care so much about a company that technically doesn't have your name on the door. And I know it's very rare, and it means a lot to me.

[B]

I mean, I love this company. Like, I was saying from the beginning, like, you made me feel like such a part of the company, growing. How could I not want to.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, go above and beyond and do everything I can to make it successful.

[A]

So what are you saying? You're not going to leave? I promise I won't do that the whole time.

[B]

No, it's okay. It's okay. I love it. I know you're going to miss me. And I'm going to miss you.

[A]

You're going to miss.

[B]

But now I have an excuse to come back to Chicago. Exactly.

[A]

All the time. All the time.

[B]

All the time.

[A]

I want to talk about some things that you felt. Well, I have so many questions. There's a lot of people who listen to the podcast, I feel like, who are trying to get into interiors and. Or who are like still design assistants, junior designers, sort of trying to like work their way up. Okay, what do you feel like are a couple of things you've learned from working in this role that you can pass on?

[B]

Be very hungry. Like I was saying before, be open to learning everything you're going to do. The shitty gritty jobs that you don't want to do, but it pays off because you learn so much. Especially since we are such a construction based company. I think that also is a big thing that we're so involved in construction. Immersing yourself in that and being, I mean, honestly being open to looking like an idiot. Not knowing, like you have to be vulnerable in those situations and kind of.

[A]

Like you still hear me say all the time, sorry, what is that?

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

What are you saying? What word are you saying? Can you define?

[B]

Yeah, you almost have to like humble yourself and be like, okay, so I don't know everything. I need to learn all of this because it really does make such a difference. Like you have to fail to be successful. And so yeah, my biggest advice would be that be open to doing any type of job, even if it seems stupid.

[A]

You can learn something from it if you're willing to.

[B]

Exactly. Yeah. That's a great way to put it. You have to be willing to actually.

[A]

Take in the information from it.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Versus just begrudgingly doing the thing you're being at.

[B]

I think also I think I probably spoke on this last season. Taking notes. Even when you don't think you need to take notes, take notes.

[A]

It's almost when you think you don't need to take notes.

[B]

It's when you need to take notes. Yes. Because you will always go back to it because annoying.

[A]

It's like when you feel you can't find something when you were growing up and then you ask your mom and she means.

[B]

And she's like, yeah.

[A]

It's like anytime they think they don't need notes, for whatever reason I ask, we need.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know. Or like something happens or a client needs it or like something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So that's definitely a really good one. And I feel like we've gotten as a company a lot better.

[B]

We have a lot. Yeah.

[A]

I feel like last time we talked about this, it was something we were still sort of like figuring out, fully figuring out and now we have very little miscommunication in that way. Or if we do, we can be.

[B]

Like, wow, refer to this email. Cause we actually have these really helpful meeting notes from this whole four hour presentation.

[A]

Oh, okay, sorry, our bad.

[B]

And then we move on and you don't hear another word about it.

[A]

And you're right. That's right.

[B]

Exactly. But yeah, I think the main thing is just being willing to learn everything. Willing to throw yourself in the fire. Don't be scared about that. Because I understand that. I was very scared at first and that was something you were really good about. Pushing me, but not pushing me too hard to where I was uncomfortable, but in the perfect way of being like, okay, I know you can do this. I see this in you. Just try. And so if you think you're gonna fail, just try. Because I also think it was helpful.

[A]

That you verbalized it.

[B]

Yeah. That's.

[A]

You were able to be vulnerable enough to be like, I'm scared about this. I'm worried about this. And then I would be like, okay, what is the concern? What is the fear? What are we worried about?

[B]

And on the flip side of being like, I'd actually like to be.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Learn more about this. I'd actually like to be a part of this presentation or this type of meeting because, like, I wanna, like, that was a big thing with like stone. Cause I know we're so like natural stone forward. I really wanted to be involved in going to the stone yards with the clients and learning about the stone. Like, things like that. Like, you just have to, like I was saying, like, immerse yourself in it and want to learn more.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. Which I think you did really well.

[B]

Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Of course. And you'll still feel like you know nothing.

[A]

Oh, for sure.

[B]

To be clear, like, I still am.

[A]

Like, for sure.

[B]

Should I be doing this? But then it's definitely what you should be doing.

[A]

I just think that if you're working for the right person and like someone who wants to mentor you, if you're verbalizing that you're concerned about something or there's an issue, I need to know that.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So I can get you to make more decisions and move forward. It's the correct way to be a verbal relationship.

[B]

In your relationship, you can't. They don't. We can't read minds.

[A]

Exactly. And if you don't verbalize it, how am I supposed to feel? And so if I gave you something and you were too scared and you just didn't say anything and didn't do it. I wouldn't think, oh, she's probably too scared.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I would think, what the fuck?

[B]

Why don't she do it? Why is she not putting the work into that? Like, why is she not doing it?

[A]

Even if it almost always is? Not always. Some people just don't want to do it.

[B]

Yeah. Which I know that's, like, a hard thing to do. Especially, like, coming out of school and having your first boss. Like, that's a very scary thing. Even though we got close really quick. Like, not everyone does. Not everyone does. But I also, like, at first, like, I was scared. Cause I was like, this is my boss. Like, yes, she's my friend, but, like, at the end of the day, she also employs me. And so, like, I would be scared to, like, over cross boundaries or not boundaries. But, like, you know, I didn't want to ask to, like, be a part of something that, like, you know, maybe a design assistant wouldn't be. But I'm glad that I did because, I mean, granted, that never happened where you were just like. No, like, there wasn't. Like, if anything, you were more, like, excited that I wanted to be a part of things. So I think that is a big thing. It's just, like, you gotta kind of overcome that fear of, you know, talking to your superior and viewing them as a superior, if you. And I think that's the other thing is I viewed you more as a mentor than, like, my superior. And so, again, I wanted to learn from you. So that kind of eased my nerves of asking you questions. And, you know. Cause I was like, okay, well, she's actually interested in my career and my growth and everything. So, like. And of course, that's not with every boss. Like, I got very lucky. But that's, you know, you don't know until you ask.

[A]

Yeah. 100%. And I would say often most people do want to be good mentors.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

They're just, like, drowning. There's a lot going on, but it's a worthy thing to make time for.

[B]

For sure.

[A]

100%. It's helped me be a better designer, a better boss. Also, so many of my favorite designs from us have come from us designing together.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or, you know, anybody on the team. All of us designing together. Like, the best rooms are when we, like, really fully collaborate.

[B]

When we sit down for four hours and are like, sketchup.

[A]

And we're like, okay, this should be this. And maybe there's high gloss in this little corner. And maybe, like, inside the cabinetry, it looks like xyz. I mean, yeah, those are my favorite. And I feel like it speaks to, like, that design is a collaborative animal, and you kind of have to be with other collaborative and creative people for it to. You can do it in a siphon, but.

[B]

And I do think you do a great job of that, especially, like, now that we have other employees too. And just, like, seeing the office, just, like, vibe or whatever. Like, you are very good at including everyone and being like, I know you. And so sometimes I'll already know what your answer is, but you'll ask a question, be like, so what do you think about this? Like, what would you do? Because you genuinely, like, want.

[A]

I do want to know. Because often they will. Somebody will have a much better idea.

[B]

Than me or solution or something. And so I think that is also very special. And for the next person that works with her, like, it is such a great environment to work with these basically.

[A]

Like, writing our resume. No, Literally work for us.

[B]

Yeah. Just put me on Instagram. This is your. We're having fun going live.

[A]

No, but I think that's very sweet. Thank you. It is something that I actually learned from my first boss, which I think I've revealed at this point is Kelly Werstler. And she was incredible. And she, you know, has, like, the most creativity, like, creativity, like, spewing out of her. And she gave majority of the interns really amazing opportunities to do, like, actually valuable creative endeavors that ended up in hotels. And on her, you know, I got to go, like, gem sourcing from her brass boxes she used to make. And we got to work with her bedding designer and her. Obviously, she really does have a hand in every single thing. And I learned so, so, so much about how to have, like, generous creativity, like, being generous in that, because it really does make a better product.

[B]

Yeah. Cause I don't even know if I mentioned last season, but I started working for you while I was still in school. I started my internship early. Cause, like, our program, we had to do the. An internship during the summer. And. Yeah, this is when you were just starting out. And so I started in the beginning of the year, and one of my first things that you gave me to do was a custom mosaic floor.

[A]

Oh, right.

[B]

In a house that's now been shot.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, I've never done anything like that.

[A]

And you did an amazing job.

[B]

You literally were just like, hey, this is what we need. This is how it goes. Here's the contact. Let me see what you've got. And, like, being able.

[A]

Like, we hadn't even met, and it's Beautiful.

[B]

And so, well, I guess we had. I came the summer before and had lunch with her because I was like, I have to work with her. We got work together. And so having that trust in me to, like, even just try, like, that is very rare.

[A]

I mean, there's very little downside in it other than, I guess, wasted time. But, like, what is that at the end of the day, especially when you're trying to mentor somebody else.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So it's often not wasted. It's just, like, learned time.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So. But it's also, like, there are other people who would be like, I can't do it. I don't know what to do, or would ask me so many questions that eventually I would just be like, I'll do it myself.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Which I do have a limit. I do. I'm not, like, I'm certainly not endlessly patient. Patience is not my virtue. I really try, but it's often not my virtue, But I do think it's. Yeah. Thank you. Because it's something I really try hard to do. What is something that you want to learn or prioritize in the next. What is it, five months?

[B]

I think I don't necessarily want to learn this, but need to. Is the more proposals in the, like, money and the money and business side of it. No part of me wants to do that, but I know it's something I need to know more. Because, granted, when I first started, that was one thing Caroline did. Caroline and Sam were both like, you can try to do a proposal. Well, I proposed the wrong wallpaper to a client. So then I was like, I will never touch this again, actually, because. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's scary. But, no, I think that is, like, I feel very confident in, you know, the whole design side. Like, I. Yeah, you should. Could take on a whole project myself if I needed to and everything. But y.

[A]

That's the money part is also my weakest side.

[B]

Yeah. It's just so.

[A]

And really, it's Sam who. Who has, like, keeps us together running. I do think that I have had to learn a lot of things I didn't want to learn, just, like, to keep myself protected and safe.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It does not come naturally to me by any means, but finding the right people.

[B]

I mean, you've seen me try to do math, so.

[A]

But you've gotten a lot better. And, like, we were learning as we go along.

[B]

I've practiced my times tables.

[A]

I make her. I make her sit at her des.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Do one couple every year. I was at every Year, every day. No, but I do think that my.

[B]

Brain just, like, doesn't work that way. It's like, yours. Like.

[A]

I know, but you have to think about it. Like, it's not even math. It's money.

[B]

It's money.

[A]

If you can pull them apart, it gets a lot easier.

[B]

That's fair.

[A]

I feel like I've, like, branded myself in my head as bad at math, which I am. Yeah, but money is math. But, like, it's a simplest of the math, in my opinion. Like, addition, subtraction, you know, and, like, yes, it's stressful math.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, to have to look at all the, you know, real money and figure out where it's coming from and where it's going and all of that. But it is also there's like, a sense of accomplishment when you get to a certain threshold of, you know, a million dollars, multi million dollar specific amount of profitable profitability. Like, there's lots that comes with it that I feel like is rewarding.

[B]

Yeah, but I think that's such a good question, though, of, like, in these last few months, like, what do I want to learn? Because I've actually thought about this a lot recently, and I think, like, this past year is the first year that I've felt, like, very secure in my career where I'm like, I feel like I should be doing this. I feel like I know what I'm doing. I feel like I should be doing this.

[A]

You're taking on side projects. You're doing things on your own. It would change, which is we should.

[B]

Say, like, we never thought I would be able to do well.

[A]

I wasn't gonna say that.

[B]

I always thought you could do it.

[A]

But you said you could do it.

[B]

I was like, I could never do this.

[A]

What I was gonna say is that obviously, like, this is kosher. I know.

[B]

I pass projects to her.

[A]

Like, it's fine.

[B]

I know. Not secretly.

[A]

I just wanted to clarify because I feel like some people are probably like, what is she talking about?

[B]

But I think that's another thing is that, like, you were so generous with, like, if we have a project or a client, potential client that comes in and, you know, maybe it's not the right fit for the firm. Like, you're so willing to hand that off to me just so I can, like, do that. Like, that means so much to me because there's not many designers that would let you do that.

[A]

Well, to me, it's like, it's a win win.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Like that.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

It's both for you. You get to make More money that.

[B]

I can't pay you.

[A]

Like, you know, I can only pay a certain amount and still be responsible, so.

[B]

But, like, aside from the whole money part, it, like, I always see it as, like, oh, she, like, really thinks I can do this. Of course. I love. And the fact that she believes in me and trusts in me enough to refer me to someone who came to you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, that just, like, already, like, makes my confidence so much better. And so, like, like I was saying this past year, like, I really feel like, you know, like, I'm confident doing meetings on my own now, and I'm confident, you know, getting together everything that we need to get together and, like, things that you. You would have normally, like, had to do.

[A]

Because you do a ton.

[B]

Yes. Like, I feel like.

[A]

And, like, I'm freaking me out with you leaving. Like, who's gonna do all that? Yeah, we don't have an answer for that yet, because you literally, like, read my mind.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Like, I will ask you to do something, and you'll say, already done. And it's not even, like, in a micromanagey way. Like, I'm asking something that we have not talked about.

[B]

I haven't even talked about.

[A]

And I'm like, yeah, and you've already done it. Like, And I'm like, what do you mean? How is that possible?

[B]

And I do think that comes with time.

[A]

Like, for sure time. But, like, quality time.

[B]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

Together.

[B]

Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[A]

What is something that you want to ask me that you feel like you haven't been able to ask me? Also, none of these questions are prepped. I have not asked any of this, and all of this is off the dome. Yeah, we are really straight off the dome, riding.

[B]

Oh, a question I've wanted to ask you. Oh, when is the maddest. You've been at me. When have you actually been mad at me?

[A]

I don't think we can say it on air.

[B]

Wait, I want to know.

[A]

I think you know what it is.

[B]

I did do that.

[A]

Okay, we'll probably bleep this out, but she.

[B]

I did do that, but I can't remember why I did that.

[A]

It really wasn't your fault. It was just, like, a very tumultuous time, and you started crying, and then I felt really bad, and then we moved on, so it wasn't a big deal. But that's such a crazy thing I had you do. But, like, so I'm sorry.

[B]

I didn't even know I did that. I forgot.

[A]

Okay, great. It's literally been haunting Me. And you're like, what?

[B]

I'm like, forgot about that. Don't remember me even doing that, actually.

[A]

Okay, I love that question. When Was I the Maddest at yout? Even though we can't tell everybody.

[B]

I know, but I think it's such a good question.

[A]

It is.

[B]

Cause we haven't ever like, had a.

[A]

No, the story is funny. Cause it's, like, kind of personal. So that's why we can't tell it. It's not because, like, it sounds like it's really bad. It's really not.

[B]

No, it's really not bad at all.

[A]

So much so that when I told her.

[B]

But, you know, let your imagination run wild.

[A]

Yes. Very scandalous. Something horrible happened. But I really feel like I don't get that mad at you.

[B]

I mean, I also, like, you don't do anything. I didn't really give you the opportunity to get mad at me. Because I would get mad at myself. You would cry and then I would.

[A]

Be like, it's okay.

[B]

Yeah. Because I'd be like, I fucked up.

[A]

What am I doing?

[B]

Yeah. No, you're like, no, like, it's okay. Like, you're. You're.

[A]

It's okay. No, literally, that is exactly what it is. If people take responsibility, I will not be mad.

[B]

I know. And that's the thing. I would always take responsibility. And I'd be so mad at myself. You'd be like, oh, okay. So she's.

[A]

Do we have a small, I think a lesson. Like, I certainly, early in my career have done things where I made mistakes. Everybody fucks up. And I tried to hide it. Cause I was so scared of the repercussions. And that made it so much worse.

[B]

Oh, my God. No.

[A]

Unless you are hiding it so you can fix it and look like the.

[B]

First person to take accountability. But when it comes to.

[A]

You are very much so at work, I immediately.

[B]

Yeah. I'm like, I just gotta rip the band aid and like, tell her and like, just get it over with. And so far it's worked.

[A]

Yeah, 100%. You also. I feel like we. Something happens. We like, you know, whatever. We're upset or just like have an emotion. And then we're able to be like, okay. And moving into problems all day. Yeah.

[B]

Now it's like, what are we gonna.

[A]

Do to figure it out? And we always do. And then you go above and beyond to like, fix it. So that's all you can ask of anybody. Also, I fuck up all the time. So that would be really crazy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was really holding that against you. Guys.

[B]

Guys.

[A]

Okay. I want to know when. Is when you've been the maddest or most annoyed at me. I feel like I also maybe know the answer, but I'm kind of scared.

[B]

Probably. When we were in Florence at the airport. I knew you were going to say that. Look, granted, you were horrible, but I. We were leaving for.

[A]

Couldn't handle it. I know.

[B]

We were exhausted, so. Had been attacked by mosquitoes.

[A]

Like, it was really.

[B]

I feel like that's a key point because, like, I literally looked like, on my face, on my arms, I literally looked like I had, like, chickenpox. Like, it was so bad. So I was so uncomfortable. We got to the airport, there was this whole thing that there's a parasite before us. And so we were.

[A]

It really was not our fault.

[B]

We got.

[A]

There was so much time and we still got fucked.

[B]

And then we get up there and they tell us, you don't have a ticket.

[A]

We have no reservation for you.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And so we're supposed to be at.

[A]

Work tomorrow at a meeting.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So we're in Florence.

[B]

Everything was just going bad. Caroline, as you should have got on the phone with AMEX and was like, they fucked up. This is not okay. Yeah.

[A]

I was yelling at them.

[B]

It was a bit elevated.

[A]

And I was, like, yelling.

[B]

I was like, I can't take this.

[A]

And you said, caroline, you have to be quiet. And I said, I literally can't.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I'm pretty sure I was like, I literally can't.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, like, the sentiment was, I simply cannot be quiet.

[B]

I have lost. Which, like, looking back at this. Because, look, there needs to be some. Someone like that in a friendship. Like, someone's gotta be the.

[A]

Unfortunately.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Because we couldn't get another ticket. And then eventually, like, AMEX realized they were wrong. We couldn't get.

[B]

They put us on a train road. Yeah. It was a whole ordeal.

[A]

But. But also. Again, that's pretty.

[B]

Like, all of the circumstances set it for me to be mad enough. Yeah. Again, not work.

[A]

It's not. You know, I feel like we've gotten really lucky.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

With like, our interpersonal at work and just, like, together. But in.

[B]

Because I feel like we're usually on the same page when it comes to work when something happens. So it's like.

[A]

Or you just agree with me and you don't tell me. Okay. I mean, I think you are generally. But I do think sometimes you, like, you hold your tongue in a good way.

[B]

Well, yeah. Because in some instances I'm like, this isn't gonna Help anything. This is just me being overstimulated.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. And it's only gonna add to the situation. So it's like, why even put it in the ego?

[A]

Like, only one of us can freak out at one time.

[B]

Exactly. So we have to be. And so I'm like, I have to be the one that. That keeps the peace. Level us a little bit. Bring us back down. Because someone's gotta do it. Yeah. And someone's gotta be the one to get shit done.

[A]

Be a bulldog line.

[B]

Exactly. So I'm the little Pomeranian to the bulldog. I have a little bark.

[A]

Which being how we saw the cutest little pome at lunch. He was like, literally two alpha. Oh, he was so cute. He was literally this big. He was so cute.

[B]

Yeah. The dogs here are so adorable.

[A]

And they're all in, like, seats at restaurants.

[B]

Oh, my God. Yeah.

[A]

They want to move to Paris. So fluffy. No one grooms their dogs.

[B]

Taken care of.

[A]

But you can tell they're brushing at home.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. They are brushing day at night.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. What do you feel like has been your favorite memory from working with me?

[B]

Definitely top. Like two would be us going to Italy for sure. That was our. That was my first abroad trip. That was like my first time ever being out of the country. And like, I. That trip was just so spectacular.

[A]

And, like, it really, really was. Thank you again, Kalia.

[B]

Shout out, Kalia.

[A]

Thank you, Kalia Stone in Chicago. But they will ship everywhere. Heard that. Kristin.

[B]

Shout out Kristin. That was one of my favorite memories, I think.

[A]

I feel like Noah Kahn.

[B]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

That was so fun.

[B]

That was so much fun. We went to dinner before. Had the best dinner.

[A]

The best dinner.

[B]

The venue was so perf.

[A]

So insane.

[B]

It was this, like, old theater. And like, it was just like such both of our vibes at the Riv.

[A]

Right. The Riviera in, like, near uptown.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was really fun.

[B]

That was a really good memory. That was so much fun. But I think also, like, our first night in Italy. Yes. When we just, like, got a bottle of wine so special huts around. And, like, that was just so much fun.

[A]

I completely agree.

[B]

That was in Chicago. Would probably be the Noah cause.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because that was just so fun.

[A]

And then what about work wise? We're talking about all personal. Which I know think is, like, very telling.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I'm also trying to, like. I thought of Noah. That's the first thing that came to mind. Work wise.

[B]

I mean, I guess, like, Italy could be Work.

[A]

But I feel like the fits was like, really major for us.

[B]

Yes, that was very.

[A]

Not that it was necessarily like happy and easy, but like, we. But we're very proud of that.

[B]

Poured so much into that project and worked on it for so long that. Yeah, that was it.

[A]

Also. I don't mean to imply that anything went wrong. I just mean that it was a very difficult commercial project with lots of.

[B]

Done a big commercial space like that.

[A]

And there was lots of. Yeah, it's in like, township. And there was a lot that came from.

[B]

That by far has been my favorite project we worked on together. I feel like that is also the project that like, you really let me like, be so involved in too, and like, make some choices. Yeah. And like. And like, I'm so proud of it.

[A]

Me too.

[B]

Because like, we. It's.

[A]

I mean, we worked our ass off.

[B]

You gotta go if you're in Chicago. Like, it's beautiful.

[A]

Please, please. And they also do really good work.

[B]

Yes, they do. But yeah, that I. Work wise. That's one of my. That's my proudest project by far.

[A]

I guess that's the question I should.

[B]

Be asking is what was my proudest.

[A]

Like, what is the best memory or most fun we've had? I feel like is like, hard for it to be work. Cause it's just work.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Even though we really like it.

[B]

I mean, we have fun at work. I mean, like. Like, I feel like we did something recently that was.

[A]

I also think we're have really bad memories in our freedom.

[B]

I know. I'm like five years. How do I remember that?

[A]

I can't remember.

[B]

I didn't even remember that. You made me cry. I'm like, wait, what? This is news to me.

[A]

I don't remember that at all. Oh, it was really fun when you guys came to Valdosta to the farm.

[B]

Oh, that was fun. That was really fun.

[A]

Is always really fun when you go.

[B]

I love going to Charleston with you. We always have so much fun in Charleston.

[A]

It's always really fun. Oh, you know that dinner that we went to when we went to Charleston most recently when we went to.

[B]

That, like, hotel kind of.

[A]

Yeah, that's on the water.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And we ate like, it wasn't even fancy food, but it was so, so good.

[B]

Oh, my God, that was really fun. That was really fun.

[A]

I do think, like, for anybody listening, this is probably like, oh, my God, they're like blowing smoke up each other's asses. But if you don't, this is actually how we are.

[B]

We're not Acting at all.

[A]

At all.

[B]

Unfortunately, we are this annoying.

[A]

I do think that litter like part. I look at it as like, it's like outward gratitude that we really do appreciate our in real time.

[B]

Right, Exactly. No, I completely agree.

[A]

Just be like, yeah, yeah. And then when you leave, like start feeling that way. But I think we're like pre.

[B]

No, I mean, cuz I gave you like a year heads up that I was leaving.

[A]

That is the other thing that like, how does anyone ever like, like get that? Like, I'm so lucky that I got that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

Oh, I have a question which may feel. Hopefully doesn't feel uncomfortable because we've just established that while I am technically your boss, we're also pretty close.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What is something that you feel like I could do better as a boss. And I want you to be brutally honest.

[B]

Brutally honest. I don't know if this is like, as a boss, I think it's like personal and boss. Okay. I do think. How do I say it? When you get upset, you've gotten so much better at it, but it does kind of almost like take over your brain for a minute to where it's like hard to. You can't see past it. Which granted, again, it would haunt you for days before now you get over it. But yeah, I do feel like once I'm gone and you don't have someone to calm you down, being able to just kind of notice it's a problem. It happened and transition and be done. Yeah. Fair.

[A]

I think a lot of that comes into play with like emotions with clients.

[B]

I know. And like, I think it's much less.

[A]

About something happening now.

[B]

No. And like, that's what I was gonna say is I get it 100% from like, I get where you're from.

[A]

I'm not in defending myself. I'm agreeing.

[B]

No, not like that. Because I'm saying, like, I. If I was in your position, I think I would be the same way. Because you have way more writing on you. Because even though I am like client facing, like, at the end of the day, your name's on the door. So like, I'm the one you have that extra set of pressure. And like you're. Yeah, like you said, like, you're the one getting the complaints and the, the bitching from clients and things like that.

[A]

The best lovely stuff when you guys go to the house and then when you go to their house and you're like, they were fine. Like, I don't know why they're doing that. And then I get a text that's, like, crazy. It's like, wait, what? And you're right. You're right 100%. I feel like it's something that I really admire about Gen Z, and I don't want this to come off as, like, condescending, because I genuinely mean it. They have this, like, ability to put a wall up right? In, like, the feelings at work and the feelings in general.

[B]

And I think that's also just kind of like how we were both raised. Like, how we were 100 raised.

[A]

And so, in fact, it's almost, like, rude to do that.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And so, like, you need to feel everybody's feelings and, like, make it better. And people, please, if someone's upset, because if you're not doing that, you're considered, like, rude and you don't care.

[B]

Exactly. So it's like, kind of a fine line. You have to.

[A]

But it's also something that, like, I do need to get better at. Cause it can't take over. Like, I, you know, I have to leave room to have feelings about the rest of my life.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

Like, you can't. I can't have. Why am I dedicating all of these feelings to people that, like, wouldn't. To me.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Even though, yes, we're your. We're your team, and, like, you're paying us and you're the client, but I don't think anyone should be, like, feeling horrible about themselves because of doing this job. We're not brain surgeons, and it's not that serious.

[B]

And that I have to tell myself that all the time.

[A]

Me too. Clearly.

[B]

Because, like.

[A]

Like, I feel like I have to.

[B]

Say, you would think sometimes we are doing brain surgery on these people, and they're about to die the next day if they don't get their drapery installed.

[A]

Seen me be, like, upset, and then I have to be like, I have to calm down. Like, this is not, like. And I, like, kind of, like, start to talk myself out of it. Yeah, but it takes a second.

[B]

Yeah, but I think in your position, you're doing it.

[A]

But also, I'm really glad. Like, I don't want you to take that as, like, you backpedal, because I.

[B]

No, I'm. I'm not backpedaling at all.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I'm just saying I completely understand it.

[A]

From that feel, like, I feel that I need to work on. Because my cortisol cannot stay this, like, cannot be this high.

[B]

For your own sanity. Life is already stressful enough. Right.

[A]

So, like, not again.

[B]

Remind yourself we're not saving lives.

[A]

No, we're not. But it really does feel that way sometimes.

[B]

It does. Especially when you're in the thick of it and, like, you're in construction. Everything's so much money is riding so much money, people's livelihoods.

[A]

Like, it is.

[B]

It's hard to not get to that.

[A]

Point, feel that way.

[B]

Yeah. Cause I even see now that, like, I'm so much more involved. Like, I even, like, catch myself doing it sometimes where I'm, like, so upset and so mad about something that happened that I just, like, literally can't get past it. Where it, like, affects me. Where I'm like, oh, my God, I'm not gonna sleep for days because I can't stop thinking about this. And I'm just so angry about it. But I'm like, why am I holding onto this?

[A]

It's not.

[B]

What is this doing for me? It's only hurting me. It's ruining my life. Yeah.

[A]

You did say to me one time, I said to one of our other team members. Cause they said, like, they had been worried about something all weekend. And I said to her, like, that's not this job, and I don't want that.

[B]

No.

[A]

Like, I want you to tell me before that ever happens again.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And you were like, yeah, that would have been you about the same situation, though, like, two years ago.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, yeah, 1,000%. And so the fact that there's even, like, any space I'm hoping means, like, we get to keep going and just continues. I do think. I do worry, though, that it's like. Like, to your point, that fine line of, like, caring and not caring.

[B]

I know. Because you don't want to just be, like, completely cut off and be like, I don't give a fuck about this.

[A]

Because I do get to that point sometimes. You've seen it.

[B]

I know. And. Yeah.

[A]

And it's not fun for you. You have to be like, okay, but we have to figure out.

[B]

We actually have to care about this.

[A]

Unfortunately. I feel like we have to do it for each other sometimes.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

I get so frustrated with the client that if you can't, you have to.

[B]

Bring me back all the time.

[A]

It means I care about the project.

[B]

And that's the hard part is because we are so passionate about it, and we care so much about the end result and about the client relationships.

[A]

Like, we don't want to have so much. I put so. And I'm pressure on us for that.

[B]

No, not even that. I think you put more pressure on yourself. I don't think you put pressure on.

[A]

Us put pressure on all of you guys because I'm doing it.

[B]

I mean, I can't speak for everyone else, but, yeah, like, pressure. But, like, but like me, like, I, of course, when I was younger, like, I cared, but, like, I don't care the same way that I do now. Like, I care so much more now because I, like, know the stakes. I know the ins and out. I know what this, like, what could happen if this or that or whatever. And so, like, I get it because again, I do the same thing almost. So not really wanting to talk, but I'm so.

[A]

No, no. But I think it's very, very, very valuable for me to know that that's something that is. Because I think about it all the time. How to be a better boss. What can I do? How can I. How can I improve? And so it's. I appreciate you being willing to say something.

[B]

Of course. I mean, I'll tell you anything.

[A]

I really value our relationship. I mean, One of the 50,000 reasons, as you guys have heard, that I really value our relationship.

[B]

I mean, yeah, we have picked each other off the floor. Literally.

[A]

Oh, my God. So literally, physically picked each other off the floor.

[B]

So go. I'll tell you anything.

[A]

Also, I feel like we should. If you've gotten this far in the app, I want to, like, give a little bit of a gift. I have a confession. Gracie has no idea what I'm about to say. There are a couple stories over the last two seasons that are mine, that are my confessions. I'm not going to tell you what they are, and I will not give you any more details, but I hope you guys have fun trying to figure that out.

[B]

Yep. Because they're real and we've been through them. Yep.

[A]

And so when we've had a couple people say, like, there's no way these stories can be real. They're making them up, babe. I promise they're real.

[B]

Unfortunately for the people saying they're not real, they're real. Unfortunately.

[A]

Like, I don't want it to be true either. Yeah, but they are. And yeah, we get to know.

[B]

Can I say something, please, for the people saying that we are tailoring or.

[A]

That it's like cherry picking the stories.

[B]

Cherry picking the stories. I'm sorry, why would we tell someone who is an editor a construction story and then have them try to relate?

[A]

Why would we advise on that? Why would we have an art advisor? Why would we have a podcast, something that is, like, about pr? It makes no sense. Yes. We are tailoring the stories to the guest so they have something to talk about.

[B]

We have an influx of stories.

[A]

You caught us.

[B]

Yeah. You got us. We're a fraud.

[A]

I don't know what else to say.

[B]

Be nice. Be nice to us. Please.

[A]

Please. Okay. Weirdly, our time is almost up because we've been only doing this for, like, five minutes. I know, but something I want to know. What is something you're most looking forward to in your life?

[B]

Just in my life in, like, in.

[A]

The next couple years that are ahead of you.

[B]

I'm actually. Even though I'll be working for someone else for a little while, I'm very, like, excited to. I feel like I have so much to bring to the table now that I'm excited to see how what you have taught me, like, transfers in another setting. Cause, like, I've done some side projects, but, like, I don't know, working for someone else. Cause you know, when you come into a new job, you want to impress them. You want to.

[A]

You know, it, like, does give you some motivation.

[B]

Yes, it does. Like, I'm not as scared to, like, work for someone else now because I.

[A]

You're very equipped.

[B]

Yes. Yes. That's the perfect way to put it.

[A]

I'm very excited to watch you grow, like, move. I mean, I have always told you, since you worked for me, like, when you're ready, tell me, and I'll make sure I support. Support all of your growth and what you do. I do hope you'll eventually come home and lead the Southeast division, but we'll figure that out a little later. Give me a little time asking this stuff on the air. So she's pressured, literally.

[B]

I have to do it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Comment below if you think I should do it.

[A]

But also, I feel like, you know, so many people since we've been telling people that you're leaving, have looked at me and been like, what are you gonna do?

[B]

I know. I've actually been, like, so, like, I guess, surprised. Like, I just didn't realize I made a mark on that many people.

[A]

Both clients and vendors and subs. And, like, everyone who knows me knows you.

[B]

And that is just, like, also, like, almost, like, empowered me so much more because I'm like, wow. Like, everyone thinks I care about this.

[A]

Of course they do.

[B]

I know. But it's like, you know, of course.

[A]

It'S, like, very scary to be staring down the barrel of making that decision, but.

[B]

Cause it's such a big life change.

[A]

You feel really, really good that you're that valuable to so many other people, not just in our internal team. You're Also, like, outwardly very valuable.

[B]

And I just, like, Chicago will always be a home to me. Like, I have such a community. I have such a village there now. Like, even though a lot of it is professional, but there's so many people that I feel like I can, could go to if I need to. And so, like, we've had some really.

[A]

Lovely clients together and we've had some really, really, really good experiences. So we have. I mean, hopefully it just means that you'll be back to Chicago a lot.

[B]

Yes, I am.

[A]

All the time.

[B]

I mean, you can't keep me away.

[A]

Maybe I have to get a plane.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I'm not. I don't have it like that, but maybe let's get a plane.

[B]

Let's get a plane and design that can be a CCI plane.

[A]

Right, Brad?

[B]

Right, Brad, if you're listening, please let us know, Please. Expensive. Please let us. Us.

[A]

I have a feeling we're going to get some emails about our, our, our time here. So I can't imagine that jet is in the. Although it is on the right.

[B]

We've been doing good.

[A]

Pretty good. We have the flea market tomorrow, so we'll see.

[B]

Yeah, I can't speak too soon.

[A]

We are going to potentially have to check, like, six bags.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay. Well, thank you for doing this with me.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I love you so much.

[B]

I love you so much and I'm so glad we did this.

[A]

Me too. And for everybody listening, I do have some favors to ask. If you can please rate, review, subscribe to the show, follow if you're on Spotify, and make sure that you know when each new episode comes out. We have so, so, so many fun guests coming up for this season. I'm really excited for you guys to hear them. Also, if you have a confession, a story, anything, can even be a morsel of something, send us an email, we'll turn it into something and we can work it together. Promise we will keep you anonymous.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And then until next week. Peace be with you.

[B]

Peace be with you.

[A]

Bye Bye.