B (1:29)

Yeah.

A (1:29)

Where did you grow up? I'm sorry to interrupt you.

B (1:31)

Oh, that's true.

A (1:31)

I was always so curious.

B (1:32)

I grew up a little town outside of Kansas City, Missouri.

A (1:35)

Amazing.

B (1:36)

So, yeah.

A (1:37)

Great.

B (1:37)

That's where I grew up at. I remember my mom used to have these, like, house plan spec home books. Cool. And, like, early days, I would, like, redesign them and make them better. I was like, no, there's got to.

A (1:48)

Be, like, a better way a man did this. I can do this better.

B (1:51)

I was like, no, we're going to, like, resketch this. And, like, I fell in. Yeah. Like, I was, like, obsessed with it.

A (1:57)

I was born for it.

B (1:57)

Yeah. So I. But I didn't know that, like, interior design was kind of, like, a real career at that point.

A (2:03)

I didn't either. Yeah.

B (2:03)

I mean, really, I didn't. And I went to school. I didn't even know if they had a design program. And I got into the design program, like, right away because I kind of changed my Major. I was the same exact thing.

A (2:15)

I did the same exact thing.

B (2:16)

Yeah. So I graduated and I wound up in Southern Missouri for, like seven years. Over seven years working in, like, a super technical architecture design firm. And I was thinking back, like, how did I even, like, wind up there? And it was like, I graduated in 02 and it was the, you know, like 911 had just happened. And I remember the dot com bubble had just happened.

A (2:38)

Like, there was a lot.

B (2:39)

It was happening really, like, intimidating. And my. I remember our professors had said, like, you're not going to be able to get a job.

A (2:47)

Be happy.

B (2:48)

Yeah.

A (2:48)

I was like, cool, thanks, professor. Who's teaching me pep talk.

B (2:51)

I don't know why. They were really weird about, like, scaring us with this.

A (2:55)

Sometimes I think it's because they're worried that we won't get jobs, and so then it won't be on them if we don't. The economy's bad. It's not our fault.

B (3:02)

Right. Like we told you so. Yeah. So I took this job in Southern Missouri and I loved it. Like, honestly, I thought I was going to stay for like a year. And I ended up meeting, like, amazing people. And I really liked that. I got to do, like, a lot of technical. It was not, like a glamorous position by any means. And it was like, I dealt with a lot of, like, project management, construction. And at the end of my time, I was like, I never want to deal with another contractor ever again. But I think I was just, like, burned out. Yeah.

A (3:29)

It's just funny because that's your whole job now.

B (3:31)

Yeah, like my entire job now. But it was, you know, I didn't have control back then. Of course.

A (3:35)

Yeah, it's a different. You can yell at contractors or I can yell at contractors. I won't say you are. I am yelling at contractors sometimes, and it's helpful. But you can do that.

B (3:43)

It is. And I mean, I got to travel, so then I ended up moving to Chicago. My boyfriend at the time lived here. We've met. We're doing, like, long distance. And I always wanted to be in Chicago, but, like, it was probably a blessing in disguise because I would have been, like, broke, you know, if I moved here in my.

A (3:58)

Right away. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

B (3:59)

So I ended up getting a job at Getty's Group. And I kind of. My previous experience was, like, more commercial hospitality. And then I went straight into sole hospitality. So I did that for just a brief stint at Getty's, and then I moved to Hyatt Hotels.

A (4:16)

Oh, wow.

B (4:17)

So I Was with Hyatt for about seven years also.

A (4:20)

So you have an insane amount of technical background, and that must help you so much on a daily basis.

B (4:27)

It does help me a lot. Yeah. I view it really in a positive light most of the time. Sometimes I'm like, corey, just because you know how to do this doesn't mean you should be doing this or you don't have to own this. Is this really a good use of your time so that I kind of.

A (4:41)

Have, like, bogged down in the details?

B (4:43)

Yes. Okay.

A (4:44)

Or that makes sense.

B (4:44)

You don't have to figure it, like, kind of. Let's figure this out on site. It's way more flexible nowadays versus, like, back in the day, you had to detail everything.

A (4:52)

And also in hospitality, I mean, you're having to have, like, your spec book so detailed that.

B (4:57)

So detailed.

A (4:57)

Because they're not asking you. You're not going on site necessarily. Like, they're just. Your documents have to be right.

B (5:02)

Strict by the book. Yeah. So that was like a. Then I left Hyatt when my girls.

A (5:07)

Were pretty little because that had to be hard to balance.

B (5:09)

Yes. Like, my husband was traveling nonstop, and I was having to travel, and I was like, you know, this is not the way that I want to raise my children right now. And I was feeling like life was moving, like, really fast. So I was in. You know, I just decided to kind of take a minute and step back. But it was, like, a super, super hard choice to leave Hyatt because, I mean, I thought it was. It was so cool. I met amazing talent, and I was around the coolest people. I loved the job. It just got to be where I couldn't travel and give it my all anymore.

A (5:42)

Yeah, of course. In your job for Hyatt, were you getting to do creative, or was it mainly more like project management like you were doing previously?

B (5:50)

It was a lot creative.

A (5:51)

Oh, amazing.

B (5:52)

It was very creative. And then also a lot on the brand side. So we were working with the owners to look at their property development plans and see, like, what do they actually need to improve versus, like, what are the guests saying? So it was a super good experience. Like, I loved it. Yes.

A (6:07)

Amazing. That's great to hear.

B (6:08)

Amazing Designers.

A (6:09)

It was so cool also, because I feel like right now, especially with the Internet, it's a lot of, like, just be a designer. Just do it.

B (6:16)

Just.

A (6:16)

And it's like, no, I really think it's worth working for. People who have systems in place and know what they're doing have been doing this continuously for years, and Years and years. It's easy to be successful for one year. It's not easy to be successful for 20, 40, 60, 100 years. Like, it's a different animal entirely.

B (6:37)

It is. I always think when I hear people that are doing design as like their second career, I'm always like, wow, that is amazing. Like, wow.

A (6:44)

Incredibly impressive work.

B (6:46)

And that's so brave. Yes.

A (6:47)

Like, I, if I didn't have the background, I would be terrified every single day. Which is not to scare people, it's just to say that, like, it's also, I think, depends on the type of interiors you're working in. We work in heavy construction.

B (7:00)

Yes.

A (7:00)

So I feel like that's, it's very key to have that technical background.

B (7:04)

It is. Yeah. And I think. Yeah. And so like, Hyatt was awesome with that. And then to your point, with like this technical thing, that was like a huge part of my, you know, upbringing. But then also this maturity that you get over the course of your career of like, okay, dealing with a more emotional aspect is. Which is more residential to me. Yes.

A (7:27)

Way more residential. Yes.

B (7:28)

Which is like, I'm so glad it's in this phase of life for me versus, like, oh, if I would have started out in residential, I don't know if I would have liked it as much. I, you know, it was really, I.

A (7:38)

Was not especially equipped at 24 to be managing like 40 year old clients who hate each other, you know what I mean, who are like really having some marital issues. And you're like, I don't feel like.

B (7:49)

I should be here. You're feeling the vibe and you're like, oh, my God. Okay.

A (7:54)

Yeah. I mean, and you know, it's certainly a choice and I think it's not right or wrong, but I do think that there is something to be said for working for successful people and learning from them and also learning to your point, learning how to be part of a team, learning how to send a professional email, learning how to be in a meeting. And so much of that happens in your first job or your second job even. And so I think it's worth sort of paying your dues at least a bit in the beginning.

B (8:21)

I know, and I'm glad. I always think maybe this happened, you know, I'm like, I think it happened at a really good time in my life, you know, But I always think like, wow, I should have done this a long time ago. But, you know, it just, this is the way it worked out and I'm.

A (8:35)

Really happy with, like, I think I don't Think. And I know I'm saying maybe I should have started later. I don't think we can even necessarily, like, it happened how it was supposed to happen.

B (8:43)

Totally.

A (8:43)

But it is easy, I think sometimes, especially when you've made a mistake, to be like, shit, yeah. Maybe I would have known that if I had done X, Y, Z at these firms.

B (8:52)

And it's like, no, you didn't.

A (8:53)

This is. It gave you exactly what you needed. You might not be here. If you hadn't done exactly what you did, we would never know.

B (8:59)

I know.

A (9:00)

It's, you know, the butterfly effect. I feel like in some ways I was just talking to my mom about this because I feel like in some ways I'm almost too looking forward. Like I don't reflect quite enough. And it's something I'm trying to do more as I've gotten in my 30s is like, not just. What's the next thing? Not just like treadmill moving forward, but also to reflect.

B (9:20)

Take a minute.

A (9:21)

Yeah. Realize, like, the growth. And I think that is. Yeah. I mean, part of it is also being self aware enough to know, like, well, if I had done this, if I had done this, maybe things would be different. But they don't need to be.

B (9:33)

They don't need to be. And also, like, you did. You're doing like a million things. Right. And it's so easy to. Yeah, yeah.

A (9:40)

To pick on that one.

B (9:41)

Especially when you look back on a project, it's like, oh, my God, we did a lot of stuff that turned out awesome. Yeah.

A (9:47)

It's that one thing that your memory holds on to that is bad. And everything else was perfect. It's just, I think how our brains work, unfortunately.

B (9:53)

I know. And then, like, when I left Hyatt, I just was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I don't know if I'm gonna, like, just dive into this. Being a mom, you know, I'm gonna. I took a minute.

A (10:04)

How old were your kids at that point?

B (10:06)

One and four.

A (10:09)

So really little.

B (10:10)

Really little. And I was just like, man, the commute was killing me. Cause we had, like. I just couldn't do it, like, solo. We don't have family here, so I.

A (10:19)

Can'T even imagine the management of that hadn't been.

B (10:21)

So I had like a year and a half where I really didn't do anything but just focused on my kids.

A (10:27)

Nice.

B (10:27)

I was, you know, really fortunate to be able to do that. And then I, like, dipped my toe in the waters of residential when my. I had some friends who they knew I used to work with Hyatt, and they were like, we're gonna renovate our bathroom, too. Any. Do you know anybody that could possibly help us? And I. I remember I had, like, had a couple beers. We were at, like, a Cubs game, and I was like, I could do it. I was like, oh, what did I. And then, like, the next day, I was like, I guess I just opened up my business.

A (10:55)

Well, you're proud of.

B (10:56)

That's how it happens. Yeah. And I was like, I.

A (10:57)

That's how it happens.

B (10:58)

Yeah. And so I. How did it go? It was great. I mean, they were amazing.

A (11:02)

Amazing.

B (11:03)

Of course, I didn't, like, charge appropriately.

A (11:04)

Because I was never. I was kind of like, your first job you'd ever do.

B (11:07)

Yeah.

A (11:08)

I mean, I had even the first 10 jobs.

B (11:09)

I knew better, but I was like, yeah, we'll see. And so now I'm like, well, whatever. They were amazing, and it was, like, awesome experience. So. Yeah. Then I just kind of, like, gradually dabbled in it, and then Covid hit, and then things got, like, crazy busy. It was crazy.

A (11:25)

Yeah. So what year was that, Your first project?

B (11:29)

2018 was my first project, but I was really selective and super, like, I'm gonna do, like, a project easing it, and then just. Yeah, yeah, Just see how it goes. And I didn't. I kept, like, pretty secretive about working. I wasn't sure.

A (11:44)

Yeah. And when did you officially launch the firm?

B (11:47)

I'd say, like, 2020 was when I was like, all right, this is, like, real.

A (11:53)

I'm getting Corey Lohman Design.

B (11:54)

Yeah. It was, like, reaching out for, like, hey, could you, like, do some solo projects for us?

A (11:59)

Oh, cool.

B (12:00)

Yeah. So I've, like, dabbled a little bit in that, like, since I've had my own studio, but it's. I definitely really am loving Presidential. And it's a different animal.

A (12:09)

It is like, the fee structure is.

B (12:11)

Different and the clients are different. So I. Yeah, yeah. So I have to be a little bit more selective right now. I don't know. I don't think I'm going to take on, like, a ton of hospitality unless it's, like, just.

A (12:20)

Right. Yeah. You know, I. I feel the same way. Commercial and hospitality. I would like one to two perfect products a year, which wouldn't we all?

B (12:27)

Ye.

A (12:29)

But one to two, that, like, really light me up creatively. But the red tape and politics and just communication that happens in a business is just so different. And it's not, like, an indictment of commercial. It's just to say that, like, while there are negatives to the emotions that are in residential. There's also positives.

B (12:48)

Yeah. I feel totally the same. And there's huge differences with the communication with, like, huge. Like, oh, I'm dealing with, like, a panel of people, and I don't even know who these people are and who's the real authority. Yeah. Who's. And then it's also, like, the pace was like, whoa, we'll get this project done maybe in, like, 10 years, and you'll never see it.

A (13:08)

I mean, it's. Cause I get over it. I know I can't. Once I've made the creative decisions, I'm like, I don't want to do this anymore.

B (13:15)

Yeah. I really like that in residential, where, like, I know exactly who my client is. The communication to me, fits way better with what I like, and I like that connection. And then I also. I like the pace where you can take risks and go fast, and then it gets done. You're like, great. Okay. And then move on, and you get.

A (13:35)

To move on to something else.

B (13:35)

Great.

A (13:36)

And then it sort of keeps you rolling.

B (13:38)

I feel like it's way more fulfilling at this point.

A (13:41)

100%. Yeah. I think it's actually interesting. Cause when I worked for some of the greats, I was shocked that they had projects that were five and six years long.

B (13:50)

I know.

A (13:51)

And then amazing projects, of course. Some of the best that you. But, like, it even got to a point where it was just like, have we lost. We've changed so much that. Have we fully lost the plot of where we even started? Like, it's. It's too much time.

B (14:05)

Yeah, it's. And to keep that momentum and to keep everybody positive and the team changes and owners change, and then things happen.

A (14:12)

And whose fault is it? Because that person, like, it's. It can be a mess. Yeah. And so to have ownership in residential, I think is really.

B (14:19)

I know. I love it. Yeah, it's great.

A (14:21)

That makes sense. Okay, so how do you feel like your business has grown in the last five years? It's six years.

B (14:28)

Grown very nicely. I have an assistant now, so I still like to be small. You know, I constantly. I've heard you talk about, like, the scaling. Act of feeling like you constantly need to scale, and I feel that for sure. But I also have to, like, be really honest with, like, my quality of life and what I want and what I want to do every day. And I also feel like for, like, 20 years, I was, like, in an office, and I really like that I make my own hours and flexibility.

A (14:59)

I want the flexibility.

B (15:00)

Yeah. I have a studio, but it's like, I really want it to be flexible. Amazing. Yeah. So that feels good right now.

A (15:06)

Isn't that the point of having our own businesses so we get to make the rules?

B (15:08)

Yeah. That was totally what I wanted. Yeah.

A (15:10)

Sometimes I find myself and I'm like, oh, God, I have to be here by a certain. I'm like, no, I actually don't. I make the rules.

B (15:18)

I know.

A (15:19)

It's okay. I'm acting like somebody else is, like, your motivation.

B (15:23)

It's awesome. Yeah.

A (15:23)

But it's also a little bit psychotic sometimes. Like, it's a little bit like, okay, I know.

B (15:28)

I totally get it. I feel ya.

A (15:30)

It ebbs and flows.

B (15:31)

Yeah. I'm very similar.

A (15:34)

And I feel like balance is so elusive. Like, it's something that we talk about all the time, but for me, I feel like I've. I'm trying to. And I just talked to Taika Pride, and she was saying this that, like, she'll work, like, really hard for three to six months, and then she'll burn herself out and have, like, two months where she basically, does it work.

B (15:53)

She just can't.

A (15:54)

And in some ways, I almost feel like that works better, like, with my creative process, because I do feel like I get to half of a year.

B (16:01)

And I'm like, I need to be.

A (16:03)

Out of this for a fairly extended period of time. But, like, our. Our jobs just don't really work that way.

B (16:10)

I know.

A (16:10)

And so I think that balance and flexibility can be, like, something that's so enticing when you own a business, but when you're like, a customer service.

B (16:18)

Yep.

A (16:18)

Based business, it's almost like. It's much more elusive than I thought.

B (16:22)

It was going to be. It is. And then you get like, the more out there you are and the more like, oh, my God, you know, people are, like, loving my work or reaching out all the time. And then you're like, I want to.

A (16:32)

Take all these projects.

B (16:33)

And you're like, does this even make sense? And, like, do I want to do this?

A (16:36)

Like, the more successful you are in air quotes, the less, like, the less balance. Which is, like, sort of why we all wanted to do this.

B (16:47)

I know. So I have to, like, gut check a lot of, like.

A (16:50)

I heard Kate McKinnon one time say, I prayed for times like these when I was bored. And I have to tell myself that a lot. I'm not. I don't religious.

B (17:01)

I don't pray. This is, like, failing.

A (17:02)

Exactly.

B (17:02)

You're just getting a minute to breathe. So like, enjoy it.

A (17:06)

And then also enjoy the time that you're insane because there will be an ebb and you just have to. But then, like, enjoy the ebb. Cause that's when I'm like, oh my God, no one has reached out in a weekend. What am I gonna do? And like, it's.

B (17:18)

That's when you could take a terrible project on accident. Cause you're like.

A (17:21)

And I. Multiple times. Because you get into scarcity mode and you're like, well, I have to pay my bills. What am I going to do?

B (17:26)

Totally, Totally.

A (17:27)

But instead I need to be like, this is the break I've been asking for. Why am I not like, well.

B (17:31)

And it's like, funny because we've been in it forever and we know this industry is like deadline driven and so we know it's going to be like.

A (17:38)

Going to other stuff.

B (17:40)

I know.

A (17:41)

How does. How are our brains not like, we know this is going to happen. Don't worry about it. We got this.

B (17:46)

I know. Yeah. So the same.

A (17:55)

Here's a confession I know a lot of you can relate to. For years, I told myself I had my project management under control. Sure, I had 30 different tabs, docs and emails open at once. And yes, I'd occasionally panic, search for a specification at midnight. But I was still managing. Right then I tried Programa, and I realized I wasn't managing, I was just surviving. And barely. When I demoed the platform, I was most impressed by their incredible AI web clipper that pulls every single spec from a supplier's webpage straight into your product schedule. We're talking product details, dimensions, pricing, finishes, everything captured in seconds instead of the hours we used to spend copying and pasting into spreadsheets. It saves me so much time, and most importantly, it's given me back the headspace to actually focus on design instead of drowning in admin. So here's my advice. If you're serious about streamlining your design business and actually reclaiming some time in your day, head to programa.design and use code CONFESSIONS25 to get 25% off your annual subscription. Trust me, you'll wonder how you ever managed without it. Doubt it. Doubt it. Before we get into some confessions, what's a vice that you partake in?

B (19:07)

I love anything that's like a potato chip with powdered cheese on it. Disgusting. I can't handle myself.

A (19:15)

I mean, that's a good one.

B (19:16)

It's a pretty good vice. Yeah. I mean, and I love, like.

A (19:19)

What's your favorite?

B (19:20)

I like Doritos.

A (19:21)

Okay, man.

B (19:22)

I just, like, can't even start. So gross.

A (19:26)

In college, there was this place called Mama Goldberg's, and it was, like, a cult favorite. And they. Their nachos were Doritos with steamed cheese on them.

B (19:36)

Dude. Oh, my God, I would love it.

A (19:38)

And when I tell you, we were like. I thought it was the height of culinary.

B (19:44)

This is incredible.

A (19:46)

How do they melt the cheese and not get it hard?

B (19:48)

Like, it was just, like, mind blowing.

A (19:51)

And honestly, I've loved Doritos ever since.

B (19:53)

I know.

A (19:53)

So I'm on board.

B (19:54)

Yeah. And it's, like, not a great vice, but. Yes.

A (19:57)

No, I think that's great. There are much worse vices.

B (19:59)

Yeah.

A (20:00)

Much, much, much, much. Let's get into confessions. This story might be the craziest thing that's ever happened in my career. It was a second home for a couple that we had just finally wrapped, and we were a week out from shooting. The home was beautiful and fully furnished and exactly how I'd envisioned it. And the clients were in love. I was so happy with it. Then one night at like 4am, my phone rings. At first, I ignored it, obviously, because it's the middle of the night and I was half asleep. But they kept calling, so reluctantly I answered. It was the contractor, and he tells me that maybe the worst thing I could have possibly heard in the middle of the night. There was a fire.

B (20:42)

Ugh.

A (20:44)

I think I thought I was still dreaming. I had to wake up my husband and put my phone on speaker to make sure I wasn't literally hallucina. He told me that there had been an electrical fire behind the walls and the home had burned badly.

B (20:55)

Oh, man.

A (20:56)

I don't think I said anything back other than over and over. What? Anyways, it turned out badly. Didn't even cover it. By the time I got there, the space was almost unrecognizable. The neighbor had seen smoke in the middle of the night and called the fire department. It was caught early enough that the fire itself had been mostly contained, but still they had hosed down much of the space and it was essentially all ruined. That is, like, heartbreaking.

B (21:19)

That sucks. Yeah, that's so bad.

A (21:21)

The ceiling was sagging and the walls were totally water damaged. Panels had been ripped open and the flooring carpets were soaked and had water pooling in corners. It looked almost unreal. Like a Hollywood set. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. The worst damage was in the kitchen, where cabinets had been fully burned and fixtures melted. Obviously. Lights, outlets, and wiring were completely ruined, and everything was Stained with smoke. It was a complete disaster. But the smell is what I'll never forget. Things had not only burned, but melted in places. And the smell of it was just awful. The clients arrived a couple hours later. The wife in tears. We walked through the rooms carefully. Everything having to be cleared by the fire department. Every room, every piece of furniture, every carefully finished detail we'd spent so much time and effort on just destroyed. It was crushing.

B (22:09)

So sad.

A (22:10)

The shoot obviously did not happen. The shoot. There were weeks. Oh my God. Oh my God.

B (22:16)

Like a years long project.

A (22:18)

And as a designer, you know how far out you had to schedule that photo shoot? Like you spend so much money. Oh my God.

B (22:25)

Yeah. What a bummer.

A (22:26)

It took months to rebuild. I stayed on the project and thankfully the clients had insurance to cover most of it. When it was finally done the second time, it looked incredible. And honestly, I think the clients and I were trauma bonded at that point.

B (22:37)

Oh well, I mean that's good, I guess.

A (22:41)

Experience, I mean, I guess that's the best it could have turned out.

B (22:45)

But that is so sad. I have never had that happen.

A (22:49)

I mean, knock on one either. But I, I did work for a designer that it did happen to really. And they, the client called and said our house burned to the ground and we want everything exactly the same, just the same.

B (23:01)

Oh my God.

A (23:02)

And so they just rehired the firm and we like went back through all the archives. Cause it had been a couple years and they just. Everything that was still available we just reordered.

B (23:11)

I mean that's I guess of silver lining in it.

A (23:14)

You have to be. Oh like loaded to be able to do that.

B (23:18)

Yeah, for sure.

A (23:18)

Because the normal person has to wait for the insurance payout and they're not paying what they should be.

B (23:23)

No, not at all. And also like their timelines are weird and.

A (23:27)

Yeah, I mean that's just like the most privileged place you. I mean it's the same as like the fires in la. All horrific, but a lot. In the Palisades, you immediately started seeing people get to work. Altadena, a lot of it is still like burned to the ground and no one's being able to start work. And it's just, just not that there aren't privileged people and unprivileged people in both of those places. But it's pretty clear, I feel like when these tragedies are obviously horrible for everyone, but insurance and not having the. Yeah, it's.

B (23:58)

I mean that was like a pretty good outcome that they like bonded and were thrilled and like hey, let's rehire you and do this again.

A (24:07)

And you liked them enough to be willing to be rehired?

B (24:09)

Cause sometimes they're like, oh, my God, no.

A (24:13)

You, like, were so done. And then the client called you and they were, like, burned down, and we have to redo it. Okay.

B (24:17)

We're gonna start over again. Like, please.

A (24:20)

And you can't be like, no, no, because our house just burned down.

B (24:23)

Right.

A (24:23)

Don't really have.

B (24:24)

Guess we're trauma bonded now. Yes.

A (24:27)

In more ways than one.

B (24:29)

Exactly. Seriously?

A (24:31)

Oh, my God. Okay. Some penance.

B (24:34)

Okay.

A (24:35)

Love it. Yeah, I would say. And penance. I feel like, you know, we're using that term loosely. If I were them, if I were the clients, I would be so traumatized, I would have made, like, my entire house as fireproof as possible. Number one. Yeah. I would also probably. They said it's their second home. I would have to have, like, a staff member there at all times. Like, I would be so paranoid.

B (25:01)

Yeah, I agree. And then also, like, it was an electrical fire. And, like, oh, how did that happen?

A (25:06)

And, like, who is held responsible for that? Like, the contractor and the electrician.

B (25:10)

I know, I know, because I have no idea. Or it was just, like, a fleet accident. Yeah.

A (25:14)

And, like, something happened with the insulation or something. And, like, thank God no one was home. You know, it sounds like no one was home. And no one had lived there yet. No pets or anything.

B (25:24)

And maybe they didn't have, like, super valuable pets. Yeah, hopefully that would be, because I.

A (25:28)

Do have a friend who was actually on the podcast who had a fire and, like, she had to throw away everything.

B (25:32)

Oh, that's so sad.

A (25:33)

Everything. Because it had so much damage. So it. You know, it does sound like it could have been much worse.

B (25:39)

Yeah.

A (25:39)

Penance for the designer. I think she deserves a vacation.

B (25:43)

She does deserve a vacation. Holy cow.

A (25:45)

Yeah. Maybe in a cold place.

B (25:46)

Yes. And five hail Marys. Yeah, I'm just joking. Sorry.

A (25:54)

And make sure you make a donation on your way up.

B (25:56)

Right. A positive Hail Mary.

A (26:03)

Listen, I have all the ones to pray to. Mary's my favorite.

B (26:05)

Me too.

A (26:05)

I think.

B (26:06)

Yeah, me too.

A (26:09)

Okay. Any other penance?

B (26:11)

I think so. I mean, the client also probably deserves a vacation for being awesome. They sound, like, pretty great.

A (26:16)

This is their second home, so I.

B (26:17)

Have a feeling they're probably going on the trip. They're like, ooh, we were on vacation when this happened. Who knows? I don't know. I mean.

A (26:23)

And still, like, obviously, even if you're privileged, a fire is so traumatizing and horrific. Like, I'm not meaning to minimize it, but it is. I imagine that they probably were, you know.

B (26:34)

Yeah, they're fine.

A (26:35)

Tropez. When they got the call.

B (26:36)

Fine. Okay.

A (26:44)

Confession number two. Number two. Number two. Number two, number two. I have a client story from a couple years back. It's funny how personal people sometimes get with you as a designer. This client I had didn't even ease into it. We hadn't even sat down yet. And he immediately made it very clear why I was there. His ex wife had designed the entire house. They just divorced, and he wanted every trace of her gone.

B (27:06)

Okay.

A (27:07)

As we walked through the house, I kept waiting to see what the actual problem was. Because objectively, the place was beautiful. Everything was cohesive, clearly expensive, and in great condition. So at one point, I had to stop him and ask if he truly meant all of it.

B (27:21)

Yeah, right. Yeah. Okay.

A (27:23)

Like, you. You would be like. But surely not like, the millwork. It's fine. We can just repaint like you.

B (27:28)

Oh.

A (27:28)

So how.

B (27:29)

Ugh. Does he even know what he's talking about?

A (27:32)

He doesn't. Well, she said the walkthrough felt almost like an inconvenience. He'd point at something, tell me she'd picked it, and that it had to go. There was no discussion about whether it still worked or could be adapted. Anything she'd chosen was immediately disqualified. Literally everything down to the paint, color, furniture, cabinetry, anything she had touched. Okay, this man is.

B (27:55)

He got burned.

A (27:55)

He needs to go to Thera.

B (27:56)

Yeah, he.

A (27:57)

Like, I'm begging. Yeah, I'm begging you men to go to Thera. Like, please. I tried once to try a practical approach. I pointed out a few things that were custom and in very good condition and suggested we could reupholster, repaint, even repurpose purpose. He shut that down immediately. He didn't care if something was perfect. He didn't want to look at it. Okay, how wealthy is this person?

B (28:17)

I was gonna say, my God, dude. Also, like, when people are like, can't you just move that sink? You're like, all right, there's like 8 million decisions. You know how expensive that's gonna be?

A (28:27)

I love when people are like, we'll just pop this over here.

B (28:30)

Just cause you say pop doesn't mean.

A (28:32)

That it's easy to do. I know it's cute, but there's a.

B (28:35)

Lot of work that is not like a weekend project. But okay. Like, sure, I guess.

A (28:40)

You're just lighting a million dollars on fire.

B (28:42)

I know. Did she take the project? Well, I don't know if I would.

A (28:47)

The reasoning got more specific as we went on. Certain lights had to go because he'd never liked them. A rug was apparently ordered during a fight, so that was out. Some of the explanations were so absurd, I actually laughed, which was definitely not the right reaction, because he didn't laugh once. What struck me the most was the lack of emotion. There was no sadness, no nostalgia, just irritation. Like the house itself disgusted him.

B (29:09)

Okay, please, like, also, like, where did. Did the wife not take anything with her? Like, what happened?

A (29:17)

Sounds like this guy may have. Yeah.

B (29:19)

Weaseled her out of it.

A (29:20)

Yeah. The primary bedroom made that especially clear. It was genuinely beautiful. And he stood in the middle of it and said it had never felt like his. It was clear to me at this point that the project wasn't about design at all. We replaced far more than I would ever have recommended. We sold furniture that was barely a year old. Barely a year old?

B (29:38)

Yeah. That's kind of gross.

A (29:39)

It's so waste. Took down custom window treatments, swapped out lighting solely because she'd chosen it. There didn't need to be another reason. By the end, the house was unrecognizable, much quieter, and, in my opinion, lacking much personality at all. But he was thrilled. During the final walkthrough, he'd paused at a wall we'd repainted in a very neutral, very inoffensive color and mentioned that she would have hated it. Mission accomplished, I guess.

B (30:05)

Ew. That's. Sorry. But, like, man. Yikes. I'm surprised she took the project.

A (30:14)

I am, too, honestly.

B (30:14)

Because I don't know. Like, that is some bad energy.

A (30:19)

Immediate red flag.

B (30:20)

If he hates this woman this much, is he gonna be, like, wondering if the diviner's okay? I'm sorry, I think.

A (30:25)

No, no, no, no, no. I was just looking for pronouns, because I. But I don't think. Yeah, I don't think they specified. To make it as a man equally is.

B (30:33)

Sorry.

A (30:34)

Not to put that on men, but, like, yeah. I don't know how many women would feel comfortable. I would feel.

B (30:39)

I would be like, this is a hard no. He's like, no. Like, he was.

A (30:43)

It would be the biggest red flag.

B (30:44)

I know. Biggest ever. I mean, that's so tempting, too, because if he had that much money to start over, you're like, wow, the budget would be great. But, God, he's gonna be like, this.

A (30:53)

Would be easy because he just wants it all to be like, whatever the opposite of his wife is. But, like, yeah, but as a designer, you have to feel so like, dead inside on that project.

B (31:04)

I know. And just, like, morally gross. Like, okay, we're just going to get rid of all this stuff we just bought.

A (31:10)

We're just going to get rid of everything. And I mean, I guess. I guess Facebook Marketplace was having a couple good weeks.

B (31:14)

Yeah.

A (31:15)

I guess people scooped up some really good stuff.

B (31:17)

For sure.

A (31:18)

I will say I've seen some things on Facebook Marketplace where I'm like, the person who owns this does not know you're selling it. Totally. There is no way. No, I don't. This person knows you're selling a genuine fur coat for $20. Like, there's just no way.

B (31:30)

You're like, how is this even happening?

A (31:32)

You're mad at someone.

B (31:33)

Right.

A (31:34)

You're having a. Yeah, it's very obvious. My goodness. Okay, well, I kind of think penance is easy on this one. This man needs to go to therapy big time.

B (31:45)

Yeah.

A (31:45)

Maybe impatient. Like, he needs help.

B (31:47)

He needs help.

A (31:48)

Because what this all says to me is I bottle everything down. I have not handled a single emotion that's associated with this. And instead, I'm going to take action. Right.

B (31:58)

And it's kind of scary. Yeah. And it's, like, extreme. Yes. Ooh. Yeah. I don't want to.

A (32:03)

Can you imagine not having so much, not having access to your feelings that instead you have to do something so extreme.

B (32:09)

I know. And then also, like, that project was probably not that. It was probably a long project if it was the whole house. And then to even carry that with you, this wall color wouldn't have been her choice.

A (32:21)

It's like, everything was in spite of her. So even though the house previously was all about her, this is still all about her.

B (32:29)

Yeah.

A (32:30)

It's just in spite of her.

B (32:31)

Totally.

A (32:32)

Like, she's still a ghost there, babe. Like, that's not.

B (32:34)

You know, she's a ghost. Yeah. She probably, like, just pursed that house.

A (32:39)

I'm. I would love to know more details about, like, the fallout of this relationship and divorce and all of that. That's the juicy info I want.

B (32:47)

I feel sorry for the designer.

A (32:49)

Me, too.

B (32:49)

Yeah.

A (32:50)

Yeah. I think. Yeah. Designer penance is hopefully, like, an awesome client. An awesome client.

B (32:56)

Yeah.

A (32:57)

Maybe like an awesome single woman client so he doesn't have to deal with.

B (33:00)

A man that makes, like, awesome situation.

A (33:02)

He or she doesn't have to make.

B (33:02)

A man totally trusting. Like a unicorn.

A (33:05)

Yes. Yeah. Yes. You deserve a unicorn.

B (33:07)

Yeah.

A (33:07)

And also, maybe moving forward.

B (33:13)

Trust your gut.

A (33:14)

Trust your gut. Like, baby, don't take that. Know that, like, there are some products that are okay to Turn down.

B (33:19)

I know. I hope they got, like, a really awesome photo shoot out of it. Yeah.

A (33:23)

It does sound like, though, they weren't happy with the end result.

B (33:25)

I know.

A (33:26)

So, like, he had to, like, kind of.

B (33:28)

He or she had to, like.

A (33:29)

Yeah.

B (33:30)

Like, kind of bland it all.

A (33:32)

Yeah. And I would just have such a hard time with that. But again, you're paying me enough. I guess I would.

B (33:37)

Yeah. Although. Would I. I don't know. I don't. I would feel gross.

A (33:40)

I really don't. I would not work with this guy. And also.

B (33:43)

Sounds terrible.

A (33:44)

They didn't mention anything about him being bad, so I guess it ended up working out. Maybe it's one of those things that, like, an assistant just took it over or something.

B (33:50)

Yeah. Who knows? Yeah. How large the firm was or how.

A (33:53)

Important this guy is and all of that.

B (33:56)

Maybe he wasn't even around.

A (33:57)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's possible. I feel like. I guess from a business decision, it would be like, oh, well, this is easy.

B (34:04)

Yeah.

A (34:04)

Because we just have. We already know, like, what we need to do.

B (34:07)

Totally don't want that scenario in my. I don't want.

A (34:10)

No, but don't call me. Please don't call me.

B (34:12)

Yeah.

A (34:14)

I don't want to refer to this.

B (34:15)

I'm not going to refer you to anyone.

A (34:16)

No. Yeah. I'm not going to be like, I know this designer. No, no, no.

B (34:19)

And I was busy. Oops, sorry.

A (34:21)

Very, very, very early on in my career, I had another designer refer, still to this day, one of the worst clients I've ever had.

B (34:29)

Oh, no. Oh, I. Oh, I'm so sorry.

A (34:33)

But it was literally my first client, so I had no clue. But now it would be, like, the biggest red flag call ever. So any designer who had been in the industry for more than a year would have known how a nightmare that client would have been. And, I mean, I get that. Like, we still often refer projects that, like, maybe aren't gonna work for us, but someone else would want. And, like, yes, it helped start my career, but it's something that I've struggled with recently is we have potential clients who reach out. Who. I'm like, no, this is just automatically, no, not gonna work. And I have to be like. I mean, I could refer people, but I don't know that anyone wants this job.

B (35:08)

I know. And then it's like, it's not my job to refer people to them, and.

A (35:13)

Then I don't want them to come back on you.

B (35:15)

Yes. Or it's like, anybody in my circle, too, is not gonna want this. And they have the same parameters that I'm looking for.

A (35:22)

And why would I put another designer in this position? Yeah, it's hard to balance, I think.

B (35:26)

Yeah. I'm just saying I would only recommend projects when I'm like, dang, I really.

A (35:31)

Really wish I could take that.

B (35:32)

Yeah. I am, like, totally not able to take on anything. And it's like, a legit good vibe that I got. Yeah.

A (35:39)

Yeah. I feel like we'll pass on if the scope is too small, but the clients seem normal and the budget for the scope is good. I feel like that's also when we can pass on to, like, newer designers. But otherwise, I think there's a lot of, like, I want to be a people pleaser, and I want to be like, I can't do it, but here are these names, but it's just not.

B (35:58)

No good deed goes unpunished. So.

A (36:01)

And that gets us to our questions.

B (36:03)

Sorry. No, no, no.

A (36:05)

That's the perfect segue. You want to be my co host? You're like, I'm not going to be in front of the camera. And then you're like. And moving on. Okay, Corey, so what is the biggest lesson you've learned in your business?

B (36:23)

Okay. Well, I just said it to keep in. Yeah. It would be no good deed goes unpunished. It sounds so harsh. And this very wise architect, in fact, had this. She basically, like, schooled us on it back in the day. And it was. Her point was mainly about, like, don't do contractors favors. Every time we do, we get ourselves into, like, hot water. Yes. That is like, a solid, solid point. But it also goes hand in hand with me, like, taking a project that I don't really want or trying to people, please constantly. Or, like, exhibit A. Being involved in something that I don't need to be involved in. What we were talking about earlier, and it seems just like. Like, why don't I trust my gut? Because it's always right.

A (37:03)

Yep, 100% always.

B (37:05)

And I don't know why. You know, it's easy to kind of ignore it. And I think the other one is like, take a deep breath and there's always a solution and everything's gonna be fine. Like, just really. There's always a way.

A (37:18)

I have to tell myself over and over, we've always solved everything else, so we're gonna solve this.

B (37:22)

Yes. Like, nobody needs to get worked up.

A (37:25)

There's so much evidence that we've gotten through everything else, so it's gonna be okay. But the personal be difficult to manage.

B (37:33)

I had in hyatt. I had somebody tell me one time, like, oh, you need to be more of a bitch, or you need to be, like, harsher.

A (37:41)

No one's ever told me that, by the way.

B (37:45)

Oh, my God. No, you are not. But you know what I mean.

A (37:49)

I do. I do.

B (37:50)

I'm kidding. And I had some really nice people mentor me, and they were like, do not do that. Don't change your style. There's gonna be clients that. That, like, want your style, and there's gonna be clients that want that. You're gonna be inauthentic to yourself. And it's totally true.

A (38:05)

And you can only keep it up for so long.

B (38:07)

And anytime I have felt like I was coming in, like, real hot or something, where I was just, like, not composed or like, okay, this is gonna work out. I feel, like, really regretful or like, oh, my God, I didn't handle that well. And I'm just like, okay, lesson learned again. For, like, the millionth time, you gotta be honest with yourself and be you. You know?

A (38:28)

I relate to that. I think a big learning lesson has been knowing when to raise my voice. Because if it's always raised, no one's gonna listen. I know, but sometimes it does have to be.

B (38:37)

It does.

A (38:38)

Because I had a client one time say, you're like, my little bulldog. And I was like, you know what?

B (38:43)

Cool, thanks.

A (38:44)

Sure. I guess that's fine. Is it working for you? Like, am I getting you what you want? I picked all the bold dog before.

B (38:51)

Too, and I'm like, really?

A (38:53)

What do you got? All right. But also, it's.

B (38:58)

Yeah.

A (38:58)

I mean, it's my job to fight for my clients and to fight for what's right for the project. And our jobs are being opinionated, I'm sure, too.

B (39:06)

It's like, in a very intelligent, professional manner and very. It makes sense why you are being, like, candid and.

A (39:16)

Well, yeah, I mean, I think that. Not aggressive, but I just. When I would walk on job sites At 24, immediately it was like, we're not listening to a word.

B (39:26)

Oh, my God. Totally.

A (39:26)

Yeah. And so I started yelling. Cause I thought that would get people to listen to me. And it doesn't.

B (39:31)

It doesn't. I know.

A (39:34)

And so now that I've learned, like, when to be sweet and then I can make. I'm like, listen, I never make these calls, you know?

B (39:42)

Yeah.

A (39:43)

But I'm making them right now.

B (39:44)

Yeah.

A (39:44)

So this means something. And I need this to.

B (39:46)

I think that's so much more, though, when you're like, I'm gonna save It.

A (39:49)

And we're gonna have.

B (39:50)

But you have. Then you already have this, like, good relationship built and they already, like, trust you and wanna work with you. And that's the kind of people I wanna work with. That they are. Are, like, honest with me. But, like, please be nice. Yes.

A (40:03)

We can all be nice about it. But I need everyone to be honest and upfront. There's nothing worse than, like, oh, it'll be done in two months when they know it's gonna be done in six.

B (40:10)

I know.

A (40:11)

Rip the band aid off and tell me the truth. Yeah.

B (40:13)

I always feel the same way. I'm like, do not promise that. You're making everybody look bad.

A (40:17)

Every single person here you're making look bad. Yeah. Sometimes contractors will be like, oh, yeah, no, we can do that. And I look at them like.

B (40:22)

Or like, we gave them this bid for this. And you're like, based off of what? Like, where did you go?

A (40:28)

Walkthrough?

B (40:28)

And so what? Like, why did you tell them this? Sure.

A (40:31)

Yeah. And then it's like, oh, well, it's gonna be double. It's like, yeah, no, I know.

B (40:36)

Because I can make anything so much more complicated and expensive.

A (40:39)

And I will. And that's my job.

B (40:41)

That's why they're gonna.

A (40:44)

You don't hire us to install Lowe's tile. Like, that's not.

B (40:47)

I know it's not.

A (40:48)

You know, it's part of the job.

B (40:49)

Totally. I always feel like the contractors. I love the contractors I've been working with lately. And there's. And I'm like, this is just who I wanna work with. And I.

A (40:58)

We're getting to that point too.

B (40:59)

Yeah. Like, I don't wanna work. Work with, like, yes. They might be less expensive, but I just want to make sure that the project. Because it's like, you are going to be with them for a long time.

A (41:07)

You're basically married.

B (41:08)

Yeah.

A (41:09)

Like, it's. It's a lot of communication.

B (41:11)

Yeah. And somebody that's, like, going to have an attitude with me, they show up, like, already, like, mad at you. And you're like, cool, Great.

A (41:17)

Perfect energy for this meeting.

B (41:19)

You have to be nice. But, like, they don't get to. They can, like, shoot off, like a one word response. But I have to be like, well.

A (41:25)

And it's. I've noticed it in meetings with clients. Like, they'll just be like, well, no, we're doing this. And I'm like, who made you the authority?

B (41:33)

I know.

A (41:34)

Why is your opinion more important than mine?

B (41:36)

Right.

A (41:37)

That piece. And, you know, certain clients will Be like, no, what Caroline says goes. And I think certain clients are always going to listen to the contractor.

B (41:45)

I know. Because they, like, talk louder. But, I mean, that is definitely not the case with, like, the ones I've been working lately. It's been wonderful.

A (41:53)

Like, yeah, I feel like finding the right contracting partner is.

B (41:56)

It's huge.

A (41:57)

So huge.

B (41:57)

Yeah. Because you're in this together. Like, I'm always. I was this similar way. I wouldn't come to job sites and, like, yell on site, but I didn't know the role I was in when I first started, when I was, like, a baby, like, you know, 24 at these job sites. I remember in Missouri, I rolled up to this job site and, like, the building was closed up. It was the bank, and everybody was smoking.

A (42:21)

And I was like, whoa.

B (42:22)

They had furniture in there. It was loosely covered with plastic. I was like, I'm pretty sure that they're not supposed to be doing this. And I told the contractor of, like, hey. Or the superintendent. I was like, you guys should not be smoking in here. He's like, well, if I tell them that nobody's going to show up to work. And I was like, you know, like, Miss Piggy, like, raging. And I was like, oh, my God. How do I deal with this? And so I had to tell my boss, and he was like, oh, my God. Like, of course, they immediately stopped, you know, But I was like, how do I handle this? Yeah.

A (42:54)

I think there's also a lot of. At least early on in my career, there was a lot of contractors throwing me under the bus.

B (43:00)

Oh, yeah.

A (43:00)

And now we've, like, adopted so many things that we do to keep them from being able to do that.

B (43:06)

I felt like, that's not a great contractor.

A (43:09)

It's a bad contractor.

B (43:10)

Yeah.

A (43:10)

I feel like it's a very bad contractor.

B (43:12)

The ones I want to work with are like, hey, we will work with you. And let's.

A (43:15)

Like, they call you first when there's a problem. If a drawing doesn't match an architect's drawing, they're calling you.

B (43:21)

Yeah.

A (43:21)

They're not going to the client and saying, well, this doesn't match, and they mess with.

B (43:24)

She drew it. Yeah, it's.

A (43:26)

And I feel like the, like. Yeah. I mean, it's. It's part of, like, working together. But in some ways, like, I think age can really.

B (43:36)

Maturity. Yeah.

A (43:37)

Or just, like, not being taken seriously.

B (43:39)

When you're young, I think created lots.

A (43:42)

Of, like, oh, yeah. Like, internalized stuff for me.

B (43:46)

Oh, me too. It took me a long time.

A (43:49)

They listen yeah.

B (43:50)

Well, you know what you're about talking.

A (43:51)

Talking about.

B (43:51)

Yeah.

A (43:52)

And. And clients are hiring us first more often than other people, so we have a bit more power in that position.

B (44:00)

And they're, like, reaching out. And I'm way more honest with them now with, like, the role of the contractor. And like, hey, it. It works better if you sign with them and then. Then you get a price. You know, you're not gonna be.

A (44:12)

We have to design. Like, you don't. There's no reason to get a bid right now if there's nothing, if there's no details for that.

B (44:16)

Waste of their time.

A (44:18)

And. And they'll probably be like, I'm not doing that. Yeah, it's something that we're having to deal with too. Especially, like, timeline wise. It's getting real. People are wanting to move so fast right now.

B (44:27)

So, like, the end of the year was weird. I had so many people reach out and they're like, when. You know, with my inquiry form, like, when do you want to start asap? And I'm like, do you realize that, like, Christmas is next week and like.

A (44:39)

What happened in February?

B (44:41)

Yeah. I'm like, there's no way. Who are they finding? That is what contractor are they finding? Yeah. And I'm like, oh, yeah.

A (44:47)

I have the same questions. It's.

B (44:50)

Yeah, but it's like, why is this, like, rush happening where everybody needs to start, like, right now?

A (44:54)

And, well, and when did it become that, like, people didn't realize that construction takes a year?

B (45:00)

I know.

A (45:00)

Like, when did. When did people say, like, oh, this should take six months?

B (45:04)

Says, this is who. I know. I don't know.

A (45:06)

I have a lot of clients coming to me that are like, well, we need to move in by X date. I'm like, oh, okay. I'm not agreeing.

B (45:13)

I almost have this, like, hard rule now, like, in my, like, red flag checklist. One is like, do they have, like, a pending deadline that is like, oh, my kid's graduating from so and so, and we're gonna have a party or whatever. And I'm like, oh, my God.

A (45:30)

Like, and I think clients do not get us to finish. They think it's, like, incentivizing us. It's not.

B (45:35)

I want to be like, you have nothing going on, right? Like, nothing is happening.

A (45:39)

No plans, nothing.

B (45:41)

Right. Yeah.

A (45:42)

Pinky swear.

B (45:43)

I know. Like, do not plan any anything.

A (45:45)

No parties. It feels like it happens every time.

B (45:48)

I know.

A (45:48)

It's especially on the biggest ones. And you're like, oh, my.

B (45:52)

I know. Goodness.

A (45:53)

This seems like we're Making everything a lot harder than it needs to be.

B (45:56)

I know.

A (45:58)

Okay. Across the places you've worked and visited, is there a reoccurring element that you've adapted into your own design language?

B (46:05)

I feel like the thing I'm loving most about, like, my design language now and also just, like, what I'm feeling really, like, inspired and happy about is that you kind of do whatever you want and, like, what makes you happy. Okay, then. Great. And who are your clients and what makes them happy and feeling. Finding out, like, a good vibe between their style and my style. I want it to feel like me, but I also really want them to be thrilled and love it. That's, like, super important to me. And so that. That's, like, probably a continuing theme that I think is, like, I just feel, like, way more confident with it lately that, like, I think the design world has, like, really, like, welcomed that in with, like, open arms lately. I feel like it's, like, trending a lot of, like, whatever makes you happy, and it makes me really happy to hear that. Yeah.

A (46:56)

Yeah, I agree. I think that's great. Okay. Your love of historic details comes through in your work. What's one of your favorite ways to honor a home?

B (47:04)

I love, like, coming into kind of, like, a clean slate and being able to, like, work in some architectural details. That is, like, my jam. I love it. And I love, like, making spaces feel, like, special and charming. I will say, like, downtown, there's a lot of, like, flipped condos that you're like, what has happened? And you have to add in character.

A (47:28)

It costs more to buy that place.

B (47:31)

It does.

A (47:31)

And renovate it or make it look storied.

B (47:35)

I know. And it's weird because usually, like, the client's scope doesn't include everything, so it is, like, a balance. And then out in, you know, more of, like, the western burbs, it's like you get these, like, massive, like, speck homes, and you're like, whoa. It's like a different animal, but, like, still kind of the same issue.

A (47:52)

Yeah.

B (47:53)

So, like, whatever I can do to, like, bring some, like, scale and some detail. That's, like, my favorite.

A (47:58)

Well, and some things that. That's interesting to. That's happening a lot right now is that people are buying in the western suburbs, like Hinsdale, specifically, three and $4 million homes that have no character.

B (48:09)

Yeah.

A (48:10)

Like, it is a white box.

B (48:11)

White, white, white. Yeah.

A (48:12)

And it used to be that, like, at least the white box simple was, like, more attainable.

B (48:18)

Right.

A (48:19)

I'll say. Like, I was gonna Say more affordable. I don't know that that's necessarily true. But like, why are we spending $4 million on a brand new white box?

B (48:26)

Exactly.

A (48:27)

You have $4 million. Spend it on like a classic historical home with.

B (48:33)

Because it's so hard. It's not hard. I mean it's doable and you can dream it. But it's so expensive. Yeah. And it's like to get that client.

A (48:41)

That's because then like I would rather a historical home that has been rotting almost and have to bring it.

B (48:48)

Me too.

A (48:49)

Than a white box that I have to bring everything in.

B (48:52)

I know it's hard.

A (48:53)

How do you like work around. I mean, you gotta like a lack of architecture.

B (48:56)

Like strip it down and start over kind of.

A (48:58)

And.

B (48:58)

Yeah.

A (48:59)

And then they spent all this money on things that are just getting immediately ripped out.

B (49:02)

Like it's kind of hard, isn't it?

A (49:04)

Heartbreaking.

B (49:05)

People that are like, we just moved in and you know the kitchen's new and you're like, oh man, like has.

A (49:10)

Quartz and these big. You're like crazy pendants. And you're just like, okay.

B (49:13)

Yeah. And you're like, this is like cottage.

A (49:15)

Core in your living room. Like, this is not going to.

B (49:17)

It's hard.

A (49:18)

Don't buy a new build house if you want anything with character.

B (49:20)

I know. Or like don't do anything.

A (49:22)

Like just.

B (49:22)

Yeah. Like just don't touch it until you like really talk to.

A (49:25)

Really talk to a designer.

B (49:26)

For sure. Yeah.

A (49:27)

I guess my point is if you want a new build home, hire a designer and an architect and build a $4 million home with the detail originally in it.

B (49:35)

That's. That would be like ideal.

A (49:37)

That's my dream scenario. So if anyone's listening, call me. Yeah, that'd be awesome. And there are designers who do that exceptionally well. And the house looks like it's been there for a hundred years. I mean, that's the dream. I just think the amount that we're spending on these like sort of developer builder grade homes is kind of wild.

B (49:58)

Oh man. They just like strip down everything. Yeah.

A (50:02)

And this weirdo costing more than a million dollars. Yeah, like they walked away with a great on that one.

B (50:08)

Totally.

A (50:10)

Okay. What is one system or decision that you've implemented that changed your design business for the better?

B (50:16)

When I hired an accountant, that was the best thing I ever did. I love him.

A (50:23)

I was gonna say. Should we give him a shout out?

B (50:24)

Yes. Thanks, Brad.

A (50:25)

Thank you, Brad. We love you. If someone's looking for a interior design specific accountant. Bradford Schulman. Yeah, he'd highly recommend.

B (50:34)

Yeah, he's awesome. He's great. And I feel like no question is dumb. And I constantly ask, and I have.

A (50:41)

So many dumb questions.

B (50:41)

So many dumb questions. And I feel like that is not part of the business that I really want to deal with and spend time on. So I love it. And then also getting an assistant and also, like, just being more, like, organized with my time that is really easy to, like, work off, like, an email. And I'm like, just calm down for a second and, like, let's think about, like, how your day is. Yes. Yeah.

A (51:05)

Yes. I think, like, taking ownership in scheduling and knowing, like, I have a say is something that is.

B (51:12)

Yeah. You're like, why are you doing this? Yeah.

A (51:16)

React instead of reacting. Like, pausing and then making a decision for me is very difficult.

B (51:21)

I mean, I feel you.

A (51:23)

Okay. What's your favorite thing about being an interior designer and owning your own firm right now?

B (51:30)

Because I do have some unicorn clients. I am loving them. Like, I really, really, really like this, like, relationship we've built. And that was, like, a big part of, like, residential is this connection that I didn't know that I would really enjoy about residential. So that's been really nicely. And when they're, like, so happy about their houses and they keep hiring me, and it's like, they're letting me, like, take risks, and that is, like, so rewarding. Yeah.

A (51:53)

So rewarding. That feeling of, like, we love it.

B (51:55)

Yeah. Walk by this room every day and just. We love it. I'm like, oh, that is so nice.

A (52:00)

That grateful clothes clients are. Wow.

B (52:02)

There's nothing better.

A (52:04)

Like, I know that they're paying us, but being grateful is still.

B (52:07)

But it's really lovely. I generally really, really like them.

A (52:10)

Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah, that's really. I feel like I've seen some discourse online lately about being an interior designer and how it's not worth it and all of this. And I kind of want to dispel that for anybody young who's listening.

B (52:23)

Yeah. And, like, that goes with any job.

A (52:25)

Of course it does.

B (52:26)

Like, anything you do for a living is, like, there's a huge chunk of it that is, like, not creative, hard and bad sucks. And especially when you're running your own business, you're, like, wearing all the hats.

A (52:37)

I cried twice this week in front of people.

B (52:39)

You're like, no one is gonna do this. You have to respond. And you're like.

A (52:45)

There'S some major issues, and it's on you, but it's, like, confidence.

B (52:48)

But it's cool. Like, at the same time, I mean.

A (52:51)

I get to go to sleep at night and be like, I'm getting to do what I love to do. And things are. You know, not every night. Some nights I'm like, well, you too.

B (52:59)

Yeah, thanks.

A (53:00)

Sometimes I'm like, fuck.

B (53:01)

Shit.

A (53:01)

Okay. We just realized that we gotta do this.

B (53:03)

Wait.

A (53:03)

Fuck this deadline.

B (53:04)

Like, it's.

A (53:04)

You know, it runs through your head, but generally, I feel like it's very rewarding.

B (53:08)

Yeah, I would. Yes.

A (53:10)

Also, there's something to be said about transformation. Like, I feel like people who work in this industry just. We naturally love the transformation, but I don't think people who don't work in this industry understand how long that transformation takes.

B (53:23)

It does. Yeah.

A (53:24)

They just see the before and after.

B (53:25)

And seeing, like, your idea, like, wow. Oh, my gosh.

A (53:29)

That was in my.

B (53:31)

So cool. Yeah.

A (53:32)

Photo shoot day is my favorite for that reason, because it's like, oh, my God. I remember when this was just an idea. And I remember all the things that it took to get here. Like, that is so rewarding and fulfilling. Yeah.

B (53:42)

I feel like.

A (53:43)

I also think that, to your point, there is no perfect job.

B (53:47)

No.

A (53:48)

At all.

B (53:49)

No.

A (53:50)

And, you know, certainly there are. You could go to, like, work in tech and make more money, or you could go in, like, Goldman Sachs. But, you know, I don't think any. Any designers in it for the money. It's because, like, we couldn't do anything else.

B (54:03)

I think so, too.

A (54:04)

That's how I feel.

B (54:05)

I think so, too. Yeah. You have to learn.

A (54:06)

When I was a kid, I was like, I want to be an actor. So that was only the second worst. Like, I. This was probably.

B (54:12)

You're like, Your mom's like, at least I didn't become an actor. Caroline, come on. Yeah, no, you would have been a good actor. So you're still young. You could always pin it. I'm just kidding.

A (54:26)

Listen, I won a monologue competition when I was, like, 13 for Hilary Duff's monologue from. Really? Yeah, from A Cinderella Story. When she's like, waiting for you is like waiting for rain in the stroud. Oh, my God. Useless and disappointing.

B (54:40)

Wow. Okay. I'm impressed.

A (54:42)

No, don't be. That's like, a very classic line that everyone knows from that movie. Do not be impressed. But I thought I was like, I'm going to Nickelodeon. Like, I'm.

B (54:50)

Yeah, I think you did a great job.

A (54:54)

It was a local competition in Valdosta, Georgia. Like, no comp. There was no competition. It was. But I had a trophy, and I was like, mom, Take me to Orlando. Like insane.

B (55:04)

That's so funny.

A (55:05)

So stupid. Corey, our CTI tagline is things that made you feel. What's something that made you feel right recently?

B (55:17)

So I like alluded to it earlier about designers doing really owning what makes them happy and what makes the client happy. Other things that make me feel are just recently I feel like, wow, my kids are getting older. I have a teenager now and a nine year old. Just sounds crazy. And I look at our life and I'm like, wow, this is really cool. I'm able to spend so much time with them and still have this career. I really feeling like that everything is like working out and it's a good feeling. That's lovely. Yeah, that's so sweet.

A (55:52)

That's amazing. Okay, well, before we go, where can we find you?

B (55:56)

You can find me on Instagram at Corey Loman, Design Perfect or my website, Coreloman Design.com amazing.

A (56:05)

And everyone, check it out. You're so talented.

B (56:07)

Yeah, thank you.

A (56:07)

Thank you so much for being here. This was so fun.

B (56:09)

I could talk to you forever. Thanks guys.

A (56:12)

I am going to. Sorry, I know it's annoying to do this, but please, please. It helps the show rate. Review, subscribe and please tell your friends. Okay. Until next week. Peace be with you. By.