I confess… publishing my work turned into a PR disaster

Summary

Confessions of an Interior Designer: Episode Summary - "I Confess… Publishing My Work Turned Into a PR Disaster"

Release Date: February 12, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of Confessions of an Interior Designer, host Caroline Turner sits down with Shannon Sharpe, a seasoned design and lifestyle writer with nearly two decades in the publishing industry. Together, they delve into the complexities of navigating client relationships and the unpredictable nature of media representation in the luxury interior design world.

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Guest Introduction and Career Journeys

Timestamp: [00:04] - [03:31]

Caroline welcomes Shannon Sharpe, highlighting her extensive experience with renowned publications such as Luck Interiors and Design, Architectural Digest, and Atlanta Homes and Lifestyles. Shannon shares her unconventional path into journalism, initially studying marketing before moving to San Francisco and later New York. Her journey underscores the often winding roads professionals take to find their true passion.

Notable Quote:

Shannon Sharpe [00:57]: "I decided to study marketing. And then after school, I ended up in San Francisco for a couple of years."

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Navigating the Publishing World

Timestamp: [04:32] - [10:38]

Shannon discusses her early career struggles, including a dream internship at Marie Claire that turned out to involve minimal work. She joins American Craft magazine, where a new editor-in-chief from Dwell provides her with a crash course in design and art, fundamentally shaping her expertise. Shannon emphasizes the importance of mentorship and adaptability in the ever-evolving publishing landscape.

Notable Quote:

Shannon Sharpe [05:28]: "I thought it was gonna be a grandma's knitting magazine. I had no idea where the fuck I was."

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The Celebrity-Driven PR Landscape

Timestamp: [17:00] - [22:00]

Caroline and Shannon critique the industry's heavy reliance on celebrity clients for magazine features. They argue that featuring celebrities can overshadow genuine design talent, making it harder for non-celebrity designers to gain recognition. Shannon points out the irony of publications labeling seasoned professionals as "up and coming," which undermines true new talent.

Notable Quote:

Caroline Turner [07:42]: "It feels like we discovered this person, you know, about them because of us, and we found them first up and coming. Right. That's not how that works."

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Confession: When Publication Goes South

Timestamp: [26:06] - [43:32]

Caroline shares a personal story about a project where her client's home was featured in a magazine with the headline "Affordable Luxury." While Caroline intended to showcase how high-end design can be achieved on a budget, the client perceived the headline as a slight to her status, leading to a PR nightmare. The conversation explores the delicate balance between design integrity and client expectations.

Notable Quote:

Caroline Turner [26:12]: "To me, it sometimes feels like it's like a status thing to have a designer, but then they don't want to actually have to like pay for the things that it takes to have a designer, which then creates all these weird expectations."

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Dealing with Client and Publication Conflicts

Timestamp: [43:33] - [58:34]

Shannon offers insights into handling such conflicts, emphasizing the importance of media training and clear communication with both clients and editors. They discuss strategies like contractual clauses to protect the designer’s work and the necessity of educating clients about journalistic processes. Caroline highlights the emotional toll such disputes can take, advising designers to uphold their professional pride despite client backlash.

Notable Quote:

Shannon Sharpe [44:00]: "Media training. That's exactly what it is. I think we could all use a little media training."

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Penance and Moving Forward

Timestamp: [58:34] - [64:54]

Both Caroline and Shannon explore the concept of penance for designers facing PR disasters. They suggest community involvement, such as volunteering with organizations like Designs for Dignity or Humble Chicago, as a way to regain perspective and balance. This section underscores the importance of resilience and giving back to the community as ways to overcome professional setbacks.

Notable Quote:

Caroline Turner [57:36]: "Volunteering will just make you feel better. You got out scot free from this situation. So giving that back I think will just right the scales a little bit."

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Design Trends and Editorial Choices

Timestamp: [58:34] - [62:33]

The conversation shifts to current design trends, with Shannon advocating for timeless design over fleeting trends. Both discuss the importance of storytelling in design journalism, arguing that a good story can transcend temporary trends and set new standards in the industry. They critique the overuse of gray walls and accent pieces, promoting a more committed and cohesive design approach.

Notable Quote:

Shannon Sharpe [62:14]: "I feel like grey is over. Everything circles back. And I'm seeing a lot of gray in fashion right now, which I like."

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Timestamp: [64:54] - [67:45]

As the episode nears its end, Shannon shares a personal moment about her cat, emphasizing the human side of their professional lives. They wrap up by discussing the importance of maintaining authenticity and passion in design, regardless of external pressures. Caroline invites listeners to connect with Shannon and tease future collaborative projects, leaving the audience with a sense of camaraderie and support within the design community.

Notable Quote:

Caroline Turner [65:21]: "You are an insanely talented writer. Thank you. You really are. We really are."

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Key Takeaways

1. Client-Designer Communication: Clear, upfront discussions about publication angles and client expectations are crucial to prevent misunderstandings.
2. Media Training: Designers benefit from understanding journalistic principles to better navigate media interactions and protect their work’s integrity.
3. Balancing Trends and Timelessness: Emphasizing enduring design principles over transient trends can lead to more satisfying and sustainable design outcomes.
4. Resilience in the Face of PR Challenges: Turning professional setbacks into opportunities for community engagement and personal growth fosters resilience.
5. Storytelling in Design: A compelling narrative enhances the appeal of design projects, making them more relatable and impactful beyond aesthetic trends.

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Final Thoughts

This episode poignantly highlights the intricate dance between creativity, client relations, and media representation in the luxury interior design industry. Caroline and Shannon's candid dialogue offers valuable lessons for both seasoned professionals and aspiring designers, emphasizing the importance of integrity, communication, and resilience in navigating the often tumultuous waters of design and publicity.

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Connect with Caroline Turner and Shannon Sharpe:

• Confessions of an Interior Designer Instagram: @confessionsofid
• Caroline Turner TikTok: @carolineturnerinteriors
• Shannon Sharpe Website: www.shannonesharp.com
• Shannon Sharpe Email: [e-mail]
• Shannon Sharpe Instagram: @shannonesharpwriter

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Stay tuned for more behind-the-scenes stories and confessions from the luxury interior design world on future episodes of Confessions of an Interior Designer.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Confessions of an Interior Designer. I'm your host, Caroline Turner. Here we talk through the crazy stories that they certainly don't tell you in design school. Because let's face it, every space has its sins. Are you ready to hear confession? Hi everyone. I'm so excited to introduce Shannon Sharpe. Shannon is a Chicago based design and lifestyle writer with almost two decades of experience in the publishing world. Publications include Luck Interiors and Design, Architectural Digest, and Atlanta Homes and Lifestyles. Welcome Shannon. Thank you so much for being here.

[B]

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

[A]

I'm so excited to talk to you. This is going to be really, really fun. Okay, so how we always start is tell me how you got here. Talk to me about your journey.

[B]

Well, I'm a little old, so my journey is a little long. That's okay.

[A]

We have time. We have time.

[B]

I mean, I guess it's. I don't know. I did not start out in journalism. The irony is my mom was always telling me I should study writing in undergrad. And I was like, no, I'm never gonna be able to do anything with that. So I decided to study marketing. And then after school, I ended up in San Francisco for a couple years.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

With my best friend.

[A]

Did you like living in San Francisco?

[B]

I did. I probably shouldn't. Okay, never mind.

[A]

You can say whatever you want.

[B]

I feel like when I go back now, it's just a different. And then when I was there, there's so many like tech bros and just not my vibe.

[A]

Tech has really taken over that town in a way that it used to be like a center of art and culture and queerness and now it's. Yeah, tech bros.

[B]

Exactly. And I mean, I like our whole world. Oh my God. For real? So the tech boom was starting and then it crashed. But I was working for a high tech PR firm and I didn't know what I was talking about because it was deep tech. It was like publicity for semiconductors.

[A]

Yeah, I would have.

[B]

I was making. I was making shit up. Sorry.

[A]

No, you can curse. You're fine. Don't worry.

[B]

I always do. Yeah. So I was making shit up. And then I never planned to stay in San Francisco forever. I just. It was mine and my best friend's kind of, let's do a couple years there. She was gonna go back to la, I was gonna go to New York. So it was just one of those things where we decided we would do that for a couple more years. Cause we are obsessed with each other and couldn't handle. I love that two more years of living together.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

That's sweet. So anyways, I moved to New York and I started working as a book publicist for Penguin because I thought that maybe if I was doing publicity for something I had a passion for. Then I realized I just didn't like being a publicist.

[A]

It had nothing to do with queer publicizing. Is that we don't like PR guy.

[B]

I was kind of a mediocre publicist.

[A]

It's good to know our strengths and our weaknesses, you know?

[B]

So finally I was like, well, what do I want to do? I want to write. So I should have listened to my mom all along.

[A]

Isn't that always the lesson? Yeah.

[B]

So I decided to go to journalism school. So I went to graduate school for journalism.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

And then. And everyone there. So this was like 2005. I guess there was a lot. Well, I guess there's always a lot going on in the Middle east, as we know now.

[A]

Sure. But, I mean, that was.

[B]

That was like the Iraq war And.

[A]

Dixie Chick CDs are getting ready.

[B]

Like, it's all happening. Yeah. And so everyone who I was, like, they were all took journalism very seriously.

[A]

Oh, sure.

[B]

They're all like, we're gonna graduate and go to the Middle east and post 9 11.

[A]

And it's very like, we're all like, patriotism. Gotta make sure that for our country. What were we thinking? I'm not sure.

[B]

And I was like, fuck that.

[A]

I'm not gonna go.

[B]

I'm like, I am not gonna go be a war reporter. I'm not.

[A]

No.

[B]

I was very much like, I'm gonna work in a magazine. Me too.

[A]

Yeah, for sure.

[B]

And so I interned at Marie Claire magazine. It was sort of a dream internship. Not that I got to do much. It was like, basically making photocopies. Sure.

[A]

Most internships are, unfortunately.

[B]

And so then I graduated. And, yeah, there were some people who went to Middle East, I guess. And then a lot of people were just going to, like, towns in the middle of nowhere and doing, like, working for small newspapers to work.

[A]

Yep. Yep.

[B]

So I did not do that. I was like, well, I'm not leaving New York. And I. I decided to. I just. I got a random job at this magazine, American Craft, and I was literally like, what is this? But it paid. It actually paid well compared to all, like, the people I did know who were staying in New York who were working for magazines. I was making good money compared. No, granted, it still wasn't great money.

[A]

Sure. But, I mean, journalism is not known for paying well.

[B]

Exactly. And so I. I thought it was, like, gonna be a grandma's knitting magazine. I had no idea where the fuck.

[A]

I was, but I'm cashing that check.

[B]

And so I. But then kind of when I started, I was like, oh, this. Actually, it's more about art and design. So a lot of, you know, I mean, probably a lot of, you know, artisans that you may have worked with or know of their work, like, bddw. We were featuring them before they were big. And it was one of those things where I actually learned a lot. And right after I started, we got a new editor in chief, and he came from Dwell magazine.

[A]

Oh, interesting. Cool.

[B]

So he brought in a lot of architecture, so it was actually a crash course in design and art.

[A]

I mean, that sounds fabulous. That's so cool.

[B]

I mean, I still will say that, you know, in other jobs, I would say, oh, they'll. They'll feature up and coming artists or designers. I'm like, we were covering them 20 years ago.

[A]

Yeah, they're not up and coming. They were up and coming. Then they're here. Yeah, I agree with you. I do and actually have questions about just, like, the interior design PR world in general. But I do think that the way that press is handled now. Yeah, it's like, oh, you just arrived, and it's been people who've been grinding for 10 years.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And I think that it's a little bit infantilizing because it's almost like I've been. And I understand to make, like, 80, 100, you have to be working for years, and that's not up and coming. But, like, I'm thinking about House Beautiful is Next Wave. Like, there will be people on that list that, I mean, they've been working for 10 years and, like, have been working steadily with clients for 10 years. In my mind, that's not Next Wave. That's not new talent.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Not to say anything bad about them. They're just already arrived. And it's weird that we, like, in my opinion, it's a little weird we position it in that way.

[B]

I agree. And I think sometimes it's almost like this ego thing of we just. These people.

[A]

1,000 per. That's at least what it feels like, whether the publication is meaning it that way or not. It feels like we discovered this person, you know, about them because of us, and we found them first up and coming. Right. That's not how that works.

[B]

Not at all.

[A]

Wow. That is so. I feel like it's always those jobs that are the ones that you take, because you're like, I need a job. There's good benefits. I don't really know. And then you end up learning so much. And it's one of those experiences that you wouldn't trade because then you took pieces from it for the rest of your career.

[B]

Exactly. I mean, I did not know. I honestly thought. I thought I would be working somewhere like Marie Claire, like the feature section or something.

[A]

I mean, growing up, that's what I wanted to do too.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, devil raised Prada.

[A]

I was like, taking notes. I was like, okay, what to do. I wasn't scared. I was like, let's go.

[B]

Honestly, I got. They offered me. So it was owned by Hearst Cosmo. The HR person came to me and said, well, we have an opening for an editorial assistant at Cosmo. And it was two months before I was graduating. Oh, wow. And I'm like, oh, the dream. Yeah. And then he's like, but you have to start immediately. And I'm like, I'm not gonna knock at my graduate. I have graduate.

[A]

You can't wait a little longer? Oh, my God.

[B]

Yeah. It was so crazy.

[A]

That is a wild thing to ask of someone.

[B]

Right? Yeah.

[A]

Especially when they're that close to graduating.

[B]

I know. Just wait. Just wait.

[A]

And it's almost a little like, definitely don't have your best interests either. They just wanted someone to start. Cause they needed something.

[B]

Yeah. Well, I'm sure it was a nightmare. Editor in chief who was like, I can't live without an editorial slide 1000%.

[A]

Which also tells you how you would have been treated in that situation. That, like, your success and your upward mobility is not valued. They're just valuing what you can bring to the company at that exact moment.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Which is, I feel like often what creates this revolving door of people. Because if these companies aren't going to invest in the people that are working for them, I mean, what's the point? Especially if you're making like $32,000 a year as an editorial assistant. I mean, it's. You know, it's not like you're living high on the hog and working for them. So there's gotta be some other. Some other perks.

[B]

Exactly. Exactly. So, yeah, I took this job at American Craft.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

And that's how I got into art and design writing. I was just. I learned so much. Then I went on to Metropolis magazine, which I'm not sure if you're familiar with.

[A]

I don't think so.

[B]

I'd say it's more B2B than. So it's architects and product designers. So that is where I learned a lot about hospitality design and commercial design. So those are things that it kind of got, you know, we covered some residential, but not that much. It was mostly a commercial. It was also very focused on LEED architecture, so very, very climate focused. So that was another learning experience.

[A]

Yeah, that is. I mean, I think that's valuable. Valuable information. We had to take a lead class in school, and even now, when I walk in buildings in Chicago and I see the little lead symbol, I'm always like, oh, my God, that's so cool. I love it. I think it's so special. And I mean, you know, so there are not many writers that have had that breadth of education and learning about all the different types of interior design and. Wow, that's very impressive.

[B]

Yeah. So then I went on to Luxe, and I was really excited because I feel like residential has always been my passion. So it was really, really fun to dive into that. And I started out covering the New York and Hamptons shoots.

[A]

That's great.

[B]

Yeah. Then our Chicago editor left, and I say, I always had a crush on Chicago.

[A]

Who doesn't? And if you don't.

[B]

So I volunteered to take it over, which was kind of taking on extra work, but.

[A]

So you're doing New York, Hamptons, and Chicago. Oh, wow. Okay.

[B]

Yeah. And then, I don't know, what was it? How long was I there before I ended up moving? There was a lot that happened in New York that kind of was a sign that I should go. And I had met my now husband who was based in Chicago.

[A]

Serendipity.

[B]

Yeah. And he's actually an artist that we had featured in Locks, which is. Oh, cool. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, my God, what a Meet cute. Yeah. Wait, that's really adorable.

[B]

I know. It's a good story.

[A]

It is such a visible string moment. Oh, my God. Meanwhile, everyone's meeting on dating apps, and you're like, well, I featured him in a magazine I wrote for, and then we fell in love. That's Bev.

[B]

I love that. That's really Bev. I feel like it's a romantic story.

[A]

It really is. Oh, my God.

[B]

And so, you know, it kind of was like, all right, I really need to go. And we had just started a long distance relationship, and it was something like, you know, I've decided I'm moving to Chicago. Not for you. Don't forget. I still say that I did not move for you, for the city, not you.

[A]

We're married now. But I did not come here for you. Yes.

[B]

So that's it. He knows that. He tells other people that too.

[A]

That's so funny. I love that. I mean, clearly that's really some fate that you guys had just started this long distance relationship. There's this job in Chicago. It makes sense for you to go. I mean, yeah, that's one of those things that you're like, I can't not do this youg know, the signs really pushing me in every way possible, 100%.

[B]

And that's kind of what, you know, I was realizing. And the reason I had originally volunteered to take over the Chicago region was because of the fact that I'm like, I always would love the opportunity to be able to move there. So it just kind of. That always been in the back of my mind.

[A]

That's really smart, actually. I feel like to always potentially have your next move and know where you're going.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. That's the way I approach life.

[A]

I love it. I love it. I never asked this, but what's your sign?

[B]

I'm a Gemini.

[A]

Gemini. Oh, okay. I could see that. Yeah. In a good way.

[B]

I'm like, I'm not two faced, right?

[A]

No, no, no. We actually have a lot of Gemini. I have a lot of Geminis in my life. In a positive way. I feel like I specifically respect female Geminis. Men, any kind, really. Not so much.

[B]

I'm a twin and so. Yeah. So my twin brother. I'll tell him you don't respect him.

[A]

You can tell him I've never met him and I don't think highly. I'm just kidding. I'm sure he's great. But you know, those Gemini men, I.

[B]

Wouldn'T recommend actually my husband's Gemini.

[A]

Oh, my God. Cut this part. Cut this part. So anyways, I'm sorry. I'm sure they're both amazing. Oh, my God, I'm sweating. Okay. All right. Well, I love that. So you were at Lux for nine years.

[B]

I was there for nine. Now I'm freelancing and it's super fun.

[A]

Yay.

[B]

It's really fun because, you know, writing. This all comes back to writing being my true passion. Right. And that was the through life. And being an editor comes with a lot of other, like, admin stuff.

[A]

Annoying stuff.

[B]

Yeah. Like, it's like I don't want to have to be organized.

[A]

I don't have to like, talk to people about things. I just want to write about my stories. Yeah.

[B]

And so it's been really fun to, you know, I get to be so creative and brainstorm and actually one, I'm working with this magazine, brand new startup called an online magazine called House of Savoie. And I actually, I'm like, this is so fun because it's like luxury fashion, but the founder wants to start a design.

[A]

Cool, cool.

[B]

And I'm like, I get to choose whatever I get to pitch. I mean, she just respects me, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'm like, and your ideas.

[A]

Cool.

[B]

It's so fun to just be like, this is what I'm gonna write about.

[A]

That's amazing. I mean, it's freezing to be able to choose your stories and the right people, you, platform and all of that.

[B]

It'S really fun and exciting. I love that. So it's just fun. And to work with different publications where, you know, you get to use different voices, different, you know, write about different things. It's just, I really am enjoying it.

[A]

Are you having designers approach you to pitch or are you.

[B]

I am working with a.

[A]

Out with people like, and going out individually and hand picking them.

[B]

I have, I am working. Several designers have approached me to pitch on behalf of them.

[A]

Great.

[B]

And so that's part of that is being like, okay, well what would be the best fit? Yep. You know, you have to, you have to. And it's about networking with all the other editors at magazines and those connections.

[A]

That you've built right. Over the course of your whole career.

[B]

Yeah. So it really is. So that's. And yeah, you have to be strategic. I always say. I'm not a PR person because, you know, I'm a mediocre publicist. But, you know, it's. I think that if anything, that's what can get you in the door. With certain magazines, they're pitching a project and if you prove you do a good job, they're going to reach out and assign you things.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, that's great.

[B]

It's sort of about getting in the door just like anything.

[A]

Sure. Getting your foot in there and then being able to weasel your way and prove that you can do it. Yeah. Okay. I have a potentially controversial question, and I'm not the only one who's noticed this. I think it's an industry wide thing that there's a big push with publications and celebrity and like, if you have a celebrity client or even if the celebrities are the client themselves, not working with a designer, sometimes not even working with an architect, but then are platformed in these magazines as like on the pages of a design magazine. That to me is really for professionals. I understand that it sells. Like, I get why and I know why one specific publication has really gone that way because of the editor in chief's former experience. Like, I understand all of that.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But how do we write the scale? Like, what's the next step? Because it feels like, one, we're gonna run out of celebrities, or two, the magazine is going to become much less valuable because it's not actually about, like, exciting, interesting, great design. It's about whose home it is.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I agree 100% across the board. So not naming names. I've seen some very boring projects, just like normal. It's just not exciting. And the most exciting thing is a celebrity. It's so hard for designers to be published, get published in these publications if it's not a celebrity. Yes. And that is what is frustrating.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because there are so many, so many people out there taking risks, doing amazing design.

[A]

I mean, amazing design that we all want to, like, pore over and study.

[B]

Right. There's certain magazines that it's catering towards the aspirational. Right.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

The average person who's buying, let's say, an ad or an Elle Decor, they're not going out and hiring these interior designers.

[A]

Right, right, right.

[B]

You know, that is. That is something that it's more. And then there's other magazines where people, the readership, they're reading it and being like, I like this designer and I'm going to go higher.

[A]

I would say Lux is one of those publications.

[B]

It is.

[A]

It is like from experience, being in other publications and being in Lux. Lux is the one that people are like, oh, I saw you in Lux and I want to hire you. We've never had that experience with another publication. Even if it's like a national, extremely well known publication. To your point, it's aspirational.

[B]

Right. I think it's a feather in your cap. And I think that's important. I think it's really important for designers to get a breath of exposure. And that is actually where it can be frustrating. Celebrities are working with the same designers.

[A]

Over and over and over and over.

[B]

And there's so many talented, famous designers. So I don't want to speak badly of them, but there's also. So. And I feel like it comes back to, like, taking risks 1,000%. And, you know, so if it's just people going in like, well, I like what you did. And so I want you to do the same exact thing again. Yeah.

[A]

And I feel like Flax Studio is a really good example of doing it super well. A lot of celebrities approach them. They're out of Australia, like, they're still going to Bring an insanely cool boundary pushing design no matter who their client is. And that's like, if it's a celebrity, great. That's an extra angle.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But I want all of them to be like Flax studio where the design is so good that no matter who owns it, you would wanna see the home.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's the piece that for obviously not gonna name names, but there, I mean, there are celebrities that they've done an ad in print and you can tell that Restoration Hardware did their entire house.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Like, what are we doing here?

[B]

I know, and I mean you as a designer. So people turn to you because when they discover your work, they obviously are drawn to your work for a reason. But I mean, I also think that people shouldn't being like, well, I want exactly what you did. I want.

[A]

Oh, yeah, we won't do it.

[B]

You're having those con of like, okay, I see what you like about our work. How are we gonna bring in your personality?

[A]

How are we gonna make this you and not the other person who hired me? Right. For the respect of our other clients and the respect of this new client.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like we don't do the same thing over and over again. I find it boring.

[B]

Right. Yeah.

[A]

You know, it's just. It's not fun for me is the bottom line. I like doing different aesthetics, different, you know, hospitality, commercial, residential, all of that, like, keeps me on my toes. And I think it's a lot more fun.

[B]

It is. I mean, just from a wr. From a writing point of view. That's why freelance is really fun. I'm getting to think about all these different things, different angles. You know, some are home features, some are roundups of products. You know, some are travel. So there's such a mix that makes it really fun and to approach things differently rather than just doing the same thing.

[A]

It's so exciting. It's a new chapter, which is really. Yeah, that's. Wow. I'm so excited for you. We'll have to work together maybe on some stories.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I think that could be great.

[B]

Percent.

[A]

Okay, so before we get into confessions, what's of vice you partake in?

[B]

Okay. Since I listen to this all the time, I listen to every episode. So I knew this was coming and it was funny. I was talking to my younger sister. I have a lot of vices. I have a lot of voices. And so I'm like, I don't want to say anything that people judge me for it. So I'm like, okay, so I'm gonna say pepperoni pizza and My sister was like, ah, you're such a loser. You cannot say that. And I would like to say also, my sister doesn't drink anymore. So I'm like, what are you talking about?

[A]

Yeah, what's your bias?

[B]

I said that. It's, like, sweet. I'm like, well, you're okay.

[A]

Not any better. Maybe a little bit of projection. Yeah.

[B]

So I guess. That's so funny. I get. I don't know. So I guess it's depending on the night. It's a dirty martini or a glass of wine.

[A]

I think that's a great vice.

[B]

Yeah. So, I mean, in an idea, you know what's nice? Start your evening with a martini and then you have wine with dinner.

[A]

Yeah, love that. Love that. I actually don't drink anymore either, but when I did, I love doing a cocktail right before dinner. Or like, right. You know, right when you're doing, like, happy hour. And then wine with dinner. That's the perfect combo.

[B]

Yeah. So here's what you do. A dirty martini, then you order a large pepperoni pizza, and you have your glass. A glass of red wine with it.

[A]

Perfect. Perfect. Last meal. Yeah.

[B]

So that's why I always ask people their last meal. Mine is pepperoni pizza.

[A]

Mine is a glass of really crispy champagne with, like, the best burger and, like, shoestring fries.

[B]

That's good. That's good. That's a good one.

[A]

Gracie, what's yours? Definitely crapper and get. It could be nothing else. Honestly, it could be nothing else if you just give me a bunch of crab rangoon with that yummy sauce.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And a glass of red wine.

[B]

Perfect.

[A]

Nope. Maybe an espresso martini. Yeah, that's my fave. Those two definitely don't go together, but for the last. Yep.

[B]

I'll take it.

[A]

I mean, if I'm gonna die anyway, so.

[B]

Right. It'll make me sick.

[A]

That's what I was thinking about. Champagne. Fuck it. Who cares? At that point, I'm in the chair. Oh, my God. Okay, okay, okay. Well, I'm really excited to get into confessions. These are good. These are juicy. Okay. I'm an interior designer with a few years under my belt. But I've learned that even after all this time, the job is still full of curveballs. I've got a story for you today that, well, definitely taught me a thing or two about expectations, boundaries, and the sometimes complicated relationship between designer and client. A while back, I worked on a project that I was so excited about. The client was this brilliant businesswoman, and her home was going to be the perfect Canvas for showcasing my design style. We worked together for months, meticulously choosing every piece. Colors, furniture, textiles. I felt like the work really captured her personality, her success, and her vision for the space. But here's the thing. I knew from the start that the client had a very specific request. She wanted everything to look expensive, opulent and refined. But she didn't want to break the bank. Bank, sure. At first I thought it was just about being careful with her budget, but it quickly became clear that she wanted that luxury feeling without spending. Like someone who could afford a real luxury home. Been there. She insisted. Far too well. Yeah, she insisted on shopping for deals, which meant we spent a lot of time hunting for bargains. Every conversation seemed to circle back to how much something cost, not how it looked, which is so disheartening when you're in the process.

[B]

Here's my question. Why are you hiring an interior designer?

[A]

Ding, ding, ding. A million dollar question.

[B]

If you don't care about what something looks like, you know, if you want to, you know, go shop your deals and your discount, go to Home Goods.

[A]

And do it yourself. I don't. You know, to me, it sometimes feels like it's like a status thing to have a designer designer, but then they don't want to actually have to like pay for the things that it takes to have a designer, which then, like creates all these weird expectations. It's, you know, less than ideal. Now, I'm all for getting creative and making design magic happen on a budget, but it meant a lot of compromises on things I would normally invest in, say, better quality textiles or custom made pieces. I had to rely on my design skills to elevate more basic items, creating the illusion of high end luxury while keeping everything within a tight budget. And I'll admit it was a challenge, but the results. I was proud of how it all came together.

[B]

That's great.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, that's the. This sounds kind of like a nightmare, Sarah. The fact that that was the outcome. Yeah, great. Then came the big moment. My work got published. The magazine came to the house, took beautiful photos, and ran an article with the headline, Affordable how one Entrepreneur Transformed Her Space without Breaking the Bank. I loved it. It was a great headline. It encapsulated the essence of the project. Affordable luxury, which is what my design is all about. I shared it with my followers, posted it on my website, and felt on top of the world. But the next day, I got a call from my client. She was furious. I could hear her voice shaking with frustration. On the other end, she Said the headline made her look cheap. She went on about how affordable wasn't the image she was going for. To her, it felt like the magazine was reducing her status, making it sound like she couldn't afford real luxury. She was really upset, and I mean, really livid. Oh, my, like, heart is beating so fast. The worst outcome that you like, that is.

[B]

I know. I mean, I. I feel complicated about this, to be honest, because this is kind of what my brand is, and that's great. And they are. I'm assuming the homeowner wasn't interviewed for this.

[A]

I'm assuming not.

[B]

Yeah, I. I would think that they wouldn't be, because they would be considering.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm wondering if the designer gave them that angle.

[A]

Probably.

[B]

I remember one time I was pitched a project by a designer, and her whole thing was, oh, it's Covid. And we did all this stuff, and, you know, we just paid cash for everything to go around, like, the shipping delays. And that was her pitch. And I'm like, when I. We greenlit it, we published it. But I was like. Like, do not talk about money. Do not. You know, I was telling. I was telling the writer. I'm like, okay, this is not something we're not gonna talk about.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, it's really tacky to be like, oh, look at. We paid all this cash, and that's how we. I completely agree.

[A]

That's a very weird thing to.

[B]

This is different. I do think it's different because it also depends on the publication. Like, I can think of publications where that is perfect, and that's a perfect angle, and maybe that a homeowner should have known the publication because. Because there are a lot of design publications who. People aren't. And that's fair. There are people who want to know how to have good design without having to break the bank.

[A]

I've had an experience early in my career where I was talking to someone who is in PR who was gonna write the story. I had pitched the story not at the angle of things being from Facebook Marketplace, but when we spoke, she was asking me specs for specific things. And so I had to tell her, we found some of these things on Facebook Marketplace. Now learning lesson for everyone. Never, ever, ever say the words Facebook Marketplace to anyone who is writing a story. Because what ended up happening is that the headline was this Home full of Facebook Marketplace fines. When it was like, three things. And I talked to the writer, and she was like, I didn't pick the headline. I didn't want that headline.

[B]

Right.

[A]

It's Derivative. But my editor knew that headline would catch traffic, and that's the reason. So I understand how this happened.

[B]

You say vintage.

[A]

Vintage and antique, and that's. Those are the only words I say now. And now I know. I mean, this was very early in my career, but it sounds like it's the same thing. And I mean, that's why, you know, sometimes you pay people to be your pr. It is.

[B]

People are probably. Yeah, it is like SEO, that they're choosing that headline. That's crazy.

[A]

I don't know about.

[B]

I mean, I feel. I feel for this designer. I bet you they were so excited.

[A]

To get so excited, and then you're just, like, crushed because your client is so upset.

[B]

I think that what's interesting is she was really excited about the angle. So I feel like sometimes writers choose to go into a certain direction than what the designer or the homeowner wants you to take. And so when I first started listening to it, I thought she was gonna be upset by the angle. But, you know, if she. That's her brand, then I feel like the homeowner. You know, I said, I'm torn, but I feel like the homeowner. If they went to her and they were asking for this stuff, you know, for discounts.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

That's what I mean.

[A]

What did you expect? Right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You asked for a affordable version of luxury. That's what I gave you.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I think it does come down to, like, when you're talking to people who are writing as, you know, they'll ask, like, very specific questions, and sometimes it's just an answer to one specific question that then becomes the angle of the story, because that's their job is to find the interesting piece and make the story out of it, but you have less control over it, obviously.

[B]

I will say. And I guess it's going off on a tangent. As an editor, I always required transcripts, and some writers don't like to provide them. But I literally read the entire transcript because I want to make sense. Sometimes a writer will take one little answer, and that's, like, what they make the whole story. And I don't think that's right. You know, like, fair. Yeah, yeah. And then they're, you know, working in different quotes that are. Don't really. That's not really relevant to what you've made the angle.

[A]

You're, like, picking and choosing to make it sour if someone said something that they did.

[B]

Yeah. And so I want to make sure that the right story is told.

[A]

I think it's more of an anomaly that there are people like you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Having been in publications, most of them are not that responsible. Having been in Lux, you guys were the only ones that were like, we need client approval. We need them to sign this. We need them to know that this is okay. Which, by the way, the best experience we've ever. And I'm not just saying that. The best experience we've ever had in a magazine because it felt like everyone knew the angle. Everyone was clear. The client was thrilled, like there was no issues because the publication did their due diligence. And, I mean, I understand you're, like pushing out 50 stories a week or whatever. And, you know, in these, especially if it's online, I feel like it's a little bit of a. They get less of a look. Okay. It was clear that my interpretation of affordable luxury didn't land with her the way I thought it would. To me, it was a celebration of how good design can look expensive without the astronomical price tag. But to her, it felt like a public declaration that she couldn't afford the high end pieces she truly wanted. She wanted everything to scream luxury without any sign of compromise, without showing any hint that there was anything affordable about it. My question is, was she named in the article? I'd be willing to bet not.

[B]

I. I would assume so, too. I mean, in my experience, probably 90% of the time, homeowners don't want to be named. Whether it's, you know, just privacy issues. Some people are literally afraid of, like, being robbed. Robbed.

[A]

Yeah. Yes, that is a concern. I mean, that's when we do walkthroughs for tickets. I sometimes, depending on where the house is, and if there's more, like, markers, it's in Chicago. We won't show how the rooms connect.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. Because she's making it seem like this is like a.

[B]

Like an expose.

[A]

An expose on her. Like it's hurting her reputation. When it actually. It didn't name her. No one would know who that is except for, like, the people in her life. So she's acting like Architectural Digest, which is not the publication was like, so and so, so and so's home full of affordable luxury. Like, that's not what happened.

[B]

Right. Also, who's she hanging out with that she, you know, she's worried about Judge.

[A]

Judge her like that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Get new friends, look inward. That's. Yeah, that's actually, I think some projection. Then it got worse. She wanted the magazine to take it down.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

She demanded they remove the article entirely or at least change the headline. And that's when it hit me this was more than just a client expressing her displeasure. She was treating the situation like I had ruined her image, like the design was somehow a reflect of her worth.

[B]

I have so many opinions about this.

[A]

Give them all to us.

[B]

I mean, first of all, that is. I mean, just so disrespectful to journalists. And I know maybe people think that design journalists are maybe not as important as, you know, people are going to Middle east and reporting.

[A]

I disagree. I disagree.

[B]

But it is so disrespectful to journalistic ethics, it makes me insane. The other thing, this was a businesswoman, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When having dealt with homeowners, like, 90% of them are lovely people, but there's occasionally a CEO that is used to being in charge, getting their way on getting their way. And that a writer or an editor, they're working for them. They treat like we are their employees.

[A]

Happens to us, too.

[B]

And that is just infuriating. And I.

[A]

Because we're not. We're all business professionals.

[B]

I had to do. I remember one specific homeowner. This was years and years ago, but he was. It was probably 10 years ago. So I'd probably been in the media business because, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For 10 years. And he was. He started bullying me. Cause he demanded to see the article before it came out. And I'm like, nope, nope, can't do that.

[A]

That's not how that works.

[B]

And so he goes, I've been in media for a decade. I know how this works. And I'm like, oh, me too. Same. And I'm like. And I know journalistic ethics.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah. No, I think he thought I was younger than I was and he could.

[A]

Bully you into doing what he wanted.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which thank God, he couldn't, so.

[B]

Exactly. So. But I feel like sometimes these executives think that they treat everyone like the help.

[A]

1,000%. 1,000%. Yeah. Yeah, we've felt that. Been there, done that. I loved the article. I was so proud of it. I knew it captured the work we'd done together. The article didn't devalue her. It celebrated her success in a way that was accessible and relatable. To me, it felt like the magazine was showing her off in the best light. But to her, it was the complete opposite. It was a mess. I was upset, but also caught in a whirlwind of emotions. And the timing. Well, it couldn't have been worse. The very next day was a massive company party I'd been planning for weeks. This big celebration of my work and success all of the contacts I had, all of the people I hoped would see me as a professional. It was going to be the highlight of my year. And here I was, barely able to focus on anything because of the drama with the client.

[B]

That is so sad. I'm so, so sad.

[A]

I know. And you work so hard, and then someone like this can just completely destroy you.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I spent the whole day stewing, trying to figure out how to calm things down. The client's behavior felt like a slap in the face. I mean, I'm a professional. I'm proud of the work I do. And here she was, not even able to see how hard I worked to make sure her space looked perfect. The stress almost made me cancel the party, But I knew I had to go. I had to show up for myself. Yeah, agree. Good for you. Yeah. The next day, I put on my best face, walked into that party, and tried my best to forget about the mess, but it was hard. I couldn't shake the feeling of being undermined, like the article wasn't mine anymore, Like I didn't have a voice in how my work was perceived. So what did I learn? Well, as much as we try to control how our designs are presented, the way people interpret them is often beyond our reach. And sometimes, no matter how much we put into a project, it's not going to land the way we expect with every client. I also learned that even when you're feeling a little betrayed, you have to show up for yourself and own what you've created. That party was a success in the end, and I had to remind myself that I didn't need approval from everyone to feel proud of my work. Thanks for listening to my rant. I've still got a lot to learn, but I hope this story speaks to anyone who's ever faced the challenge of balancing client relationships with your own professional pride. Keep doing what you love, no matter the assholes. Agreed.

[B]

Yeah, agreed.

[A]

But also. But I feel for this girl. Yeah. You know, I think this person is very emotionally immature, that they're, like, looking inward and are able to take things from it. What I took from it is that this woman is miserable and doesn't have a lot. And this was, you know, I can't know her, but I know from previous clients, like, when you're spending this much money, when you've worked on this hard, because even if you're not spending as much as somebody else to that person, it's still probably the most they've ever spent at one time besides buying their home. And so I Understand you, like, dream about, you know, how this is gonna be in an article and what it's gonna sound like and what, like, I, I, I get all of that, but I do think that anyone who would feel that upset about someone saying that something that they did is affordable has some insecurity issues. Like, major insecurity issues.

[B]

Absolutely. 100%.

[A]

I don't. There's no way around it.

[B]

It goes back to who's she hanging out with.

[A]

Right. Why are you worried what your friends are gonna say if they're really your good friend? Cause, you know, I love when I'm wearing something that's, like, not expensive or whatever, and someone asks, and I'm like, oh, my God, it was $5. Which I know some people hate that, but I'm always gonna be like, no, this came from TJ Maxx or whatever. I like to say I'm not a snob about where things come from. We're working on a $10 million house that we found, like, you know, something for $300 that, you know, should have been. Could have been $3,000. But it doesn't have to be. Like, you can have a beautiful home, and I think it's even cooler if not everything is a tr.

[B]

Yeah, 100%. That is so true. It makes things so, I mean, so much more interesting. And I do think it speaks to the design skill to understand, okay, this is how I'm going to make this look amazing. And it's not just about buying fancy.

[A]

Things, because then it's uncanny valley. Like, when you walk in that house, you're like, why is everything so new? And, like, it feels like you're walking through a showroom, which is not what anyone. And maybe some people want their homes to look like that, but it's not what I want our homes to look like. This tapestry is from Facebook Marketplace. We bought it for $500. I had someone from Cherish come, and it's worth $16,000. So even if you're buying things in an affordable way or, like, secondhand or vintage, you're getting so much more for your money. It doesn't mean it's lesser value.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And things are so much better made of the areas that we're buying from. Like, it makes sense. It is smart. It is not call against your character.

[B]

No, I agree. I think that's a huge thing that things are so much better made.

[A]

I mean, I have pieces that are from the 1800s in my home that hold up better than something that I bought. You know, that was expensive. That Was a nice case piece or something like it doesn't. They just can't even be made that way anymore because the materials are too expensive or whatever it is. Like, all of our pieces in our office are vintage. And I love the, like, dovetail drawer details. You don't see that very often. And it's all of those things that you can get a dresser for $300 with original dovetail drawers. Or have a woodworker make it for 6,000.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Still get the dovetail drawers. But then there's, you know, a whole story and experience that comes with that piece. I think there's gotta be a reframing. It sounds like in the way that she thinks about affordable. And it's unfortunate that the. That was the article headline, but I think at the end of the day, it's not. It's not the end of the world by any means.

[B]

I don't think it is either. And also what it comes down to is she was, I don't want to say being cheap, but she was looking for a discount.

[A]

Absolutely. It wasn't a lie. It wasn't misrepresenting.

[B]

It was the truth. Yeah.

[A]

And if you're going to ask for discounts but not want anyone to know about it, what does that say about you?

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's not. Yeah, not ideal. Okay. Penance. So penance for the designer, I would say, just.

[B]

And it's not penance. And it seems like she did learn, you know, from this experience. I would say maybe just making sure to. If a magazine is interested in publishing a project, make it clear and have a sit down. Just. You need to understand that, you know, they are going to take a story where they are. They are. So you can't dictate the story. So you have to know this to be comfortable to be published.

[A]

We have a clause in our contract that says you have no right to any publishing. And no matter what happens, we're allowed to publish this. Because of my experience and the client being so upset, we put it under a contract essentially saying once we're paying for the photos, once we have the photos, we're allowed to pitch to whoever we want to. We'll be responsible with it. But you have nothing to do with this, so you have no say. And I mean, we still try to be as responsible as possible. And to be clear, I would never, like, force someone to take photographs of their house if they really don't want them to take it. That's not what I mean. But that's never been an issue. It's More so that they don't want to be named, which we would never do. I think penance wise, sitting down with a PR professional, even just once, like just going to lunch with a PR professional and having someone like you tell us behind the scenes, here are the words I would stay away because those are always going to be the thing that the editor or whoever catches on. Don't say this, say this, don't say this, say this. There are just things that you can't know and your situation.

[B]

Media training.

[A]

Media training. That's exactly what it is. I think we could all use a little media training. And then I think penance for the client is that she needs to go to an ashram or go on some sort of soul searching. Less materialistic, more finding yourself. What is actually your inherent value, not like your home bring. You know what I mean? No material item is ever gonna bring you that fulfillment and self esteem that she so clearly needs.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And bring your friends along. Yeah, yeah. I think also some new friends. That is in order. Because if you're that upset about your friends potentially saying about that, then you have the wrong friends. Yeah.

[B]

I actually also just thought of. No, I haven't read this book, but people have been talking about it. It's called Let them.

[A]

Yes, I've heard about that.

[B]

And that's what about who cares what people think? Right. Am I wrong on that?

[A]

No, you're right. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So I feel like. Read that book.

[A]

Yeah, I think that's great, actually. Let her be upset, let her cry, let her do whatever she's gonna do, but it doesn't have to change the way you behave and do.

[B]

Oh, so you're talking about the designer. I was talking about the homeowner.

[A]

No, I am too. I am too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even. Well, I guess in that way I was referencing the designer that no matter what the client thinks, even if they're upset, she has to be able to know that she did a good job and she was never being malicious.

[B]

Yes. So I didn't even think about it that way with the designer. I was thinking as a homeowner, but.

[A]

It works for both of them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, yeah, true. I guess as the homeowner, who cares.

[B]

What her friends think of her?

[A]

Oh, that too. Yes, very true. It sounds like someone like that doesn't have the ability to even say let them. Like she's so concerned about it. I don't know that she would even grasp the let them theory. She should definitely read that book and.

[B]

Maybe she'll get there.

[A]

Maybe she'll get there next one. A few months ago, I was hired by a wonderful family to redesign their living room. The project seemed like a good one. They wanted a comfortable, modern space that still had a cozy, inviting feel. The budget wasn't enormous, but there was enough flexibility to source some beautiful pieces and I was all in. It was the perfect blend of my favorite styles and I was excited to bring it to life. We had a couple of design presentations with lovely but fairly boring final selections. That's the worst. I hate when that happens. But there was one piece I had my eye on. This gorgeous statement sofa I knew would really tie the whole room together. It was high end and a bit more than the client was originally planning to spend, but it was a showstopper. I felt like it would elevate the entire space. So I recommended. They hesitated, but after some back and forth, they agreed. We moved forward. Now, here's where I need some advice. As the project progressed, I started noticing small details about the family. Things that didn't quite feel right to me, like how they often made comments about how they, quote, needed to save money. Yikes. Or quote, how luxury pieces weren't their thing. I began to second guess that sofa purchase. But at the same time, I had a vision. I didn't want to back out and compromise the integrity of the design, which I do understand. Like, clients will often be like waffle and they'll be like, I, I've been thinking about that and I'm not sure. And I have to look at them and say, if you can trust me, I promise this will be amazing. Right. But I wouldn't ever do that if I also wasn't 100% sure. Which I think is the, you know, fast forward to the big reveal. The family loved everything except for the sofa. The moment they saw it, the husband raised an eyebrow and the wife immediately mentioned how, quote, over the top it was for their space. They appreciated the design as a whole, but couldn't get over how extravagant the sofa seemed. Was it like gilded in 24 carat gold or something? What could have been so extravagant? I don't. What it sounds like to me is buyer's remorse. Yeah, like, I don't think there was anything wrong with the sofa.

[B]

I don't think so either. I think that they started realizing, like.

[A]

At the end of the project, you tally up how much money you spent.

[B]

Right. Exactly.

[A]

And if you spend $8,000 on a sofa and you, you're $15,000 over budget, that $8,000 sofa starts to look like an irresponsible decision. And I think that's when people get a little squirrely. That makes sense. Honestly, I was gutted. And here's my confession. I knew deep down they weren't truly comfortable with the piece from the start. Well, that's. But I pushed it through anyway. I didn't listen to my gut when I should have, and now I feel like I let them down. Like, I miss the mark. They haven't mentioned it again, but I can tell there's tension. So here's my question for all of you. How do I navigate this? Should I offer to replace the sofa with something more in line with their budget and style, or should I let it go and trust that I still created a beautiful space? I'm torn between wanting to make things right and feeling like I did deliver what was best for the room, even if they didn't get on board with that one piece. What do you think? How do you deal with situations where, you know a client is unhappy but doesn't come right out and say it? I've been in design for years, but this one's really throwing me help.

[B]

I. I'm so torn between.

[A]

I know. It's a. This is a really hard one, especially since she said she had a gut feeling at the beginning that, like, it wasn't. She shouldn't do it. I guess it's like, for me, if she had a gut feeling, it wouldn't look right. That would be an issue.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think the gut feeling of, like, the client might have an issue with it. I mean, I don't know. It's hard because part of your job is to push your clients to do things outside of my mother's side, they wouldn't always do. But I agree with you. I mean, if she knew they're gonna have a problem with this. It sounds like it's custom that can't be returned.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Right. That's not something you take a chance on. Right. So I don't know. I don't know. And I know that's not the answer that she wants. I. I think, frankly. And this is probably gonna sound bad. It would depend on the client. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, was the client perfect in the rest of the process? And they love every other thing but that one sofa. Did you make enough of a profit that you can absorb the sofa and still not, like, be in the hole? Yeah. If so, I would say, yeah, congratulations. You now have a new sofa. And I would buy your clients a, like, West Elm, CB2, whatever they feel comfortable with, or. Or, you know, maybe Offered to. I don't know. There's ways I think you could negotiate that a little bit and. Yeah. Thoughts?

[B]

I think. Yeah. I think the thing is, she went in knowing that they were on a tight budget.

[A]

Yeah, true.

[B]

That was. I mean, you've had confessions on here where the designer finds out later how cheap. Yes. How cheap the client is.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So I do think that there needs to be, you know, some caution if there even has hesitant a little than it does. Okay. Maybe they can't afford this.

[A]

Yeah. So obviously, when we take on this process, we're doing an allowance that's breaking down, like, what every single thing we think should cost. And then it gives you the total.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I think there's gotta be something like that to prepare the client. And I'll say I normally, because furniture is towards the end, because we're often doing construction. And so in that process, I'm educating them. Like, here's what you should be spending money on, actually. Let's not buy the expensive tile, because I want you to be able to buy this sofa down the line, or vice versa. Let's do the expensive tile, and we'll do a cheaper sofa. So I think, like, our clients give us one number, and then we work within that number to make it all work. And then they don't really care if we're within that number, whether the sofa was $2,000 more and the table was $2,000 less. So I think some sort of system of prepare them. Yeah. And having, like, almost pre approval for what they're willing to spend.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because then you're not spinning your wheels and finding things that they don't feel comfortable with. You're not like. Yeah. Forcing things when maybe they really, deep down, can't afford it. I also think people tend to change halfway through the project. Like, when people take on the project, they have money, and so they're kind of like throwing it around. And then when you get towards the end, anything that feels like it wasn't a hundred percent worth, it can be called into question. And I think that's difficult. I think my answer stands that if this is the only thing they had a problem with, then maybe I think it's worth making it right. There are some clients that just, like, have a problem with everything all the time. So you have to do something about it. And that's when I would say, you approved this. It was custom. You signed the po. You'll like it when you live with it a little bit longer. Like, I kind of think it's a situational thing, which I know is not, like a perfect answer, but I also think sitting down with them, like, in my experience, when something like this happens and I just email the client and I'm like, can I come over? Right, yeah. And we sit face to face and we talk about the situation. Most people, if they're not, like, evil, will be like, you know what, it's fine. We understand. We're willing to live. Like, if you sit down and talk to them about, here is why I did this. I promise, if you can trust, Like, I know it feels expensive, extravagant, but it's worth it. There's a reason you spend more on your apartment. Like, if you can almost, like, backsell it again and try to convince them, because, you know, people are paying us for our opinion, and it is okay to say it's right whether you like it or not. This is right for the space. I think if she felt like it wasn't right that she had messed up on a spec or that something was like, you know, it just didn't work, that's when I think she has to take responsibility.

[B]

I think she seems very kind.

[A]

Yes. Agreed.

[B]

Yes. You know, to be concerned about what that. And it doesn't seem like concern of, like, getting a bad reputation, more just genuine care. And so I feel like maybe it is just the key to sit down and have that conversation and figure it out and explain. Because if she seems really genuine, then I think that'll help with, you know, them being like, okay, you know what?

[A]

We understand. Also, maybe there's something that she can do to negotiate her fee on the back end. Like, she was paid $50,000 in billables. Maybe she refunds them two grand. If the sofa was eight, then, now the sofa's six, and that makes it a little bit easier to swallow. But then she's not having to eat ten grand by eating the sofa and buying a new one, right? Yeah, like, I think that could be that. Because then it assuages their issue of potentially spending more than they felt like they could. It's in good faith. From her perspective, if they ever need a designer again, they'll certainly hire her because she, you know, stuck to her word and went out of her way, took money out of her pocket. And, I mean, that does mean something to clients, if they're reasonable people, I would say. I agree. Yeah. Okay, great. Well, good luck with this situation. Write back in and let us know how it goes. But I think a sit down will do wonders. Penance for the designer, I think.

[B]

Yeah, I kind of Think that goes back to sitting down and explaining, I think what we talked about and maybe giving a refund.

[A]

Yeah. Maybe the penance is a little like tithing essentially. I also think if it does end up that the clients are okay with it. This is one of my favorite pennants. But maybe you like, take that karma and run with it and go volunteer. There's actually a place in Chicago where designers can go and volunteer for people transitioning out of houselessness. And it just puts things in perspective. Like nothing in that house even costs $8,000. But they're thrilled that you've spent this time to make their home look beautiful. So I think, you know, being.

[B]

Is it Designs for dignity.

[A]

Humble Chicago.

[B]

Humble Chicago.

[A]

Yeah, I love. But designs for DIGN also does a lot of great work. Humble Chicago, we love. They also will take in like we've had clients say they don't want something and we don't have a youth board and so we can donate it.

[B]

That's amazing.

[A]

Yeah. So I think maybe going into your community and like getting a little bit of giving back. Yeah, I think that will also just make you feel better. Like you got out scot free from this situation. So giving that back I think will just right the scales a little bit.

[B]

Yes, that makes sense.

[A]

Not that she even did anything wrong, but it's just. Just like sometimes when the universe gives you a break, it feels like you need to like give a little gift back or you're not acknowledging the break you were given. That sounds woo woo as shit, but that's how I feel is really. I do.

[B]

I agree. And it's interesting because she does seem to have guilt, which. I was raised Catholic. We were raised Catholic. Yeah, we all. But you know, maybe. Yeah, like going out and doing something will kind of, you know, assuage that.

[A]

Yeah. Yep, exactly. I think that will. Will make her be able to sleep better at night, which is the ultimate goal. We're almost done. We're going to do a couple questions. When considering projects for a feature, do you look for specific design trends or themes that are currently resonating with your readers or is there more emphasis on the overall aesthetic and story behind the project?

[B]

100% number too. I mean, it depends on the publication, but good design is good design.

[A]

Yep. Yeah, love that.

[B]

You know, there's different styles. This is not bullshit. I feel like I lean more into like your style. Like a lot of historical, really layered mix of prints and all that, you know, vintage furnishings. That is up my alley. Like that is 100% what I love. But, you know. So a minimalist home is not. Not my personal taste, but if it's.

[A]

Really well done, you can respect that it's very well designed.

[B]

That is the biggest lesson you learn as a design journalist early in your career. It's not about what you would have for yourself. It's about what good design is.

[A]

I love that. I think that's very important. Yeah, I do, too.

[B]

A good design journalist is not evaluating something on. This is what's in.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I think there is almost the reverse where it can be like, this is these beautiful projects that we're publishing. This is what we're seeing happening, you know, and this is why things are trendy. But this. It's because it's beautiful design.

[A]

You're creating the trend, not following the trend. Yes. Like the things that are being published are. Yeah. Are creating the trend. And that's where I go to not necessarily find trends, but to find inspiration. I mean, you can see my bookshelf. I love magazines and I love holy paper in my hands. And so I think that that's lovely. And I think most publications really need to have that frame of mind. It's interesting, too, because all good designers are also not paying attention to trends.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So it's like the trends are the problem, and we're just all trying to pass through and not use trends. But I do think it's interesting because I'll have people, you know, design writers reach out, and if it's not like for a story feature, it's asking about trends.

[B]

Right. And I think that that happens, like roundups and stuff like that. And those are the clickable stuff online it is. And so that is certain people, the designers aren't interested in the trends. The clients are interested in the trend 1000.

[A]

The homeowners are.

[B]

Yeah. Especially things where it is something they want to go and get themselves and they're not working with designer, and so they're not getting that. I don't want to say education. I like designers are educating their clients, but I don't want to talk down about people who are going and designing stuff themselves. Doing their own stuff.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think people having a resource when they can't work with designers is absolutely valuable. Right. Yeah, I mean, I think that is.

[B]

Right. And so it does depend. I mean, I guess, like a full home feature, it really is about the design. I always say there's got to be a good story, too.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I am a big believer in. In a good story. And so that is always important to Me. And if you're a good journalist, you can dig in and find that good story.

[A]

Find the story. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

[B]

But are always going to be trend stories. But it is more, I'd say, product based.

[A]

Sure, that makes sense.

[B]

So. And that is. And that is, you know, people are seeing stuff. So I think it's okay. I mean, there's nothing wrong with trend stories. I just think when it comes to. To like a full home feature, people aren't interested in that.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. And we're not interested in talking about it. Like, if a. If a writer was doing a whole home and they were like, what trends did you use in this? I would be like, what? I don't. None. That's not. Huh. So I feel like, you know, obviously it's important that they're focusing on the latter. Okay. What is one recent design trend you've seen that you would get rid of forever? Speaking of trends.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. So this is. Is kind of feel like this is the generic gray walls. Oh. And the gray floors.

[A]

Honestly, gray. Gray. The millennium never needs to come back. It's good. It's done.

[B]

I mean, I. Yeah, that's the thing. I'm like, I feel like it's over. So maybe I'm just commenting.

[A]

No, no. But I think it'll. I mean, everything circles back. Right. And I'm seeing a lot of gray in fashion right now, which I like. Like, I like a heather gray in fashion. But what's happening in fashion is what's gonna happen in interiors in three to five years is how I tend to look at it from colors and trends wise, we will never work with gray ever. Because I don't like it. Whether it comes back in trend or not, I hate it. It doesn't work with, like, we're a much warmer style. And so it's just never, never gonna work. Mine is forever my hatred for accent wool. Accent painting one wall, wallpapering one wall, anything on one wall. Just don't do it. Don't do it. Get a piece of art. If you can only afford one wall of wallpaper. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but if you can only afford one wall of wallpaper, pay to paint the entire room, drench the whole room in a color, and then maybe, if you still have enough money, frame out the wallpaper on the wall with, like, applied wall molding, and then you have a termination point that doesn't go wall to wall and that looks more like. And that works. We've done that a couple of times in like kids rooms, but more murals. Like it's. It makes more sense from a mural perspective than it does just like a repeated. It looks like a piece of art. Yeah, exactly. It looks like someone painted on the wall, which is the ideal. I would rather you commit. No matter what it is. I'd rather you commit to all white walls.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I'd rather you just to commit to something than bits and pieces and like, it just. It's never gonna look complete or. Or like it does in a magazine ever.

[B]

I also do think, going back to this, a gigantic piece of art will bring. If you want to bring your eye to that wall.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Like a gigantic. Just put a big statement piece on that wall and that is what's gonna happen.

[A]

I completely agree. I know.

[B]

It's so much more interesting.

[A]

I have a huge. You probably saw it when you came in, like a huge red lacquer textured piece in our entry. That injury is so boring without it. So boring. And I think I spent $1,000 on like a five foot painting. Like, you can still do that large of scale without it being like, you know, astronomical. $5,000. 10,000. 20. Like it. It's doable also, you know, maybe DIY. It's kind of fun to do like some abstract art in a bunch of different colors.

[B]

You're much more talented than me.

[A]

But abstract art is so hard. I tried it and it's way harder than it looks. Way harder than it looks. Okay. Well, Shannon, this has been so fun. Thank you so much for doing this. Before we go, CTI's tagline is interiors that make you feel. What's something that made you feel recently? It doesn't have to be design, and it also doesn't have to be good.

[B]

Okay, this is gonna make me sound like a crazy cat lady. I brought my cat to the vet on Monday. Just. She's senior. She's 14 years old.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

And so she has to have her, you know. You know, every six months. Try to check.

[A]

Yeah, a little checkup. What's her name?

[B]

Roxy.

[A]

Roxy. That's so cute.

[B]

And it's so. And she's great. Totally healthy.

[A]

Yay.

[B]

So yay. But this is just my ego or whatever because I adore her so much. And the vet and the vet tech were like, she's so pretty. And I'm so proud. I'm.

[A]

I like that.

[B]

So I've been. I've been bragging to everyone.

[A]

Has ever seen.

[B]

No, they say it to everyone, but.

[A]

Still let her have her moment. Exactly. She doesn't need to know that she's the only one. She's the prettiest cat. I also have a cat. And she's also beautiful. And I get it. Like, I'm the same way.

[B]

I completely understand.

[A]

I love that. Okay, well, thank you so much for coming on. This was the most fun. I've loved giggling with you. And thank you. Before we go, where can we find you? Where can people on social. How can they write to you if they have a pitch?

[B]

Okay, so. So my website is www. Do we still say that? I love that.shannon sharp.com and that's s h a n n o n hyphen. S h a R P E. Yes.

[A]

We'll put it in the show notes.

[B]

And then sharp shannonmail.com and Instagram is. Is Shannon Sharpwriter.

[A]

Perfect. Perfect. We'll put it all in the show notes so people can find you. And I don't, you know, you know this, but you are an insanely talented writer. Thank you. You really are. We really are.

[B]

Can I pop in with one more thing?

[A]

Yes, please.

[B]

So keep an eye out for this. Maybe we'll come back on. Kimberly Swedelius and I are talking about starting a sub stack.

[A]

Ah, I love that.

[B]

So we'll keep you updated on that.

[A]

Yes. Oh, my God, I'm so excited.

[B]

You will hopefully be able to find us on substack at some point.

[A]

Yes. Come back on when you launch and we'll talk about it. Because I would love that. I find it so fascinating, this foray into substack. So I can't wait. I'm so excited to read it. Congratulations.

[B]

I'm putting it into the universe we're.

[A]

Manifesting right here, right now. Okay. Amazing. Well, thank you all so much for listening. Don't forget to rate review, please. I'm begging. And until next time, peace be with you. Bye.