A fact checker hangs up his Pinocchios

Summary

Summary of NPR's "Consider This" Episode: A Fact Checker Hangs Up His Pinocchios

Episode Title: A Fact Checker Hangs Up His Pinocchios
Release Date: July 31, 2025
Host: Mary Louise Kelly
Description: In this episode, NPR's Mary Louise Kelly delves into the pivotal role of fact-checking in modern journalism, spotlighting the departure of Glenn Kessler, the long-serving Fact Checker at The Washington Post. The discussion navigates the challenges faced by fact-checkers in an era dominated by misinformation and examines the broader implications for democracy and media integrity.

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The Rise and Impact of the Washington Post Fact Checker

Introduction to the Pinocchio System

The episode opens with a reference to President Donald Trump's frequent use of the term "Pinocchio" to label falsehoods, highlighting his disdain for fact-checking. Mary Louise Kelly explains:

“Pinocchios are the rating system used by the Fact Checker at the Washington Post. The project launched in 2011, joining outfits like PolitiFact and Fact Check.org with a simple mission: Evaluate politicians' claims for truthfulness.”
(00:28)

The Pinocchio ratings range from four Pinocchios, indicating completely false statements, to the rare Geppetto check mark for accuracy. Over 14 years, the Fact Checker has meticulously debunked numerous dubious claims from both political spectrums.

Examples of Fact-Checked Claims

• Barack Obama’s Affordable Care Act:
  Barack Obama’s promise regarding the ACA earned him four Pinocchios.

  “We will keep this promise to the American people. If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period.”
  (01:04)

• Mitt Romney’s 2012 Campaign Ad:
  Mitt Romney’s claims about job losses and China’s economic position received two Pinocchios.

  “Under Obama, we've lost over half a million manufacturing jobs. And for the first time, China is beating us. Seven times Obama could have stopped China's cheating. Seven times he refused.”
  (01:25)

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The Trump Era: A Turning Point for Fact-Checking

Escalation of False Claims

Donald Trump's presidency marked a significant shift in the landscape of political discourse and fact-checking. Mary Louise Kelly notes:

“Trump made more than 630,000 false or misleading claims during his first term, according to an analysis by the Post's Fact Checker.”
(01:52)

Kessler reflects on this period:

“Before June 2015, politicians paid attention to fact checks. They would be shamed by the Pinocchios that I would award, and they tried to keep their claims tethered to the truth as much as you would expect a politician to do. But Trump really changed the dynamic, and he said many things that were false.”
(04:34)

The Challenge of Misinformation in Policy

Kessler emphasizes the difficulty in combating misinformation:

“The fact checks are intended to make people better informed about complex policies. The more complex the issue is, the more apt a politician is going to try to mislead it.”
(05:40)

He points out that falsehoods have begun to influence government policy, making the role of fact-checking even more critical, albeit challenging.

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Glenn Kessler’s Departure: Implications for Fact-Checking

Final Reflections

Glenn Kessler, after a 27-year tenure, decided to leave The Washington Post. His final column underscored the growing challenges of fact-checking in an age rife with misinformation:

“In an era where false claims are the norm, it's much easier to ignore the fact checkers.”
(07:30)

Reasons for Leaving

Kessler discusses his departure:

“I didn't really fact check claims to change the behavior of politicians. They're going to do what they're going to do. The fact checking business, so to speak, is still very valuable and important.”
(05:40)

He had hoped for a successor to continue the Fact Checker role but found the Post unwilling to facilitate a smooth transition:

“They've left it open as to whether or not they will revive the Fact checker. I hope they do. It's an important part of the core of the Washington Post, which, as its motto says, democracy dies in the darkness.”
(06:38)

Concerns About the Future of Journalism

Kessler expresses concern over the diminishing newsroom at The Washington Post:

“It's very sad to see so many talented, experienced reporters and editors leave the newsroom, particularly some who are at the height of their careers who go to some of our competitors like the New York Times or the Atlantic.”
(09:00)

He critiques the broad buyout strategy implemented by the Post, fearing the loss of exceptional journalistic talent.

---

The Role of Ownership and Editorial Direction

Clarifying Editorial Independence

Addressing questions about potential censorship, Kessler affirms his autonomy:

“I had complete freedom. I had extraordinary freedom. And I should note very clearly that there's no indication that Jeff Bezos has ever interfered in any of the news side of the newspaper.”
(08:08)

However, he acknowledges that owners retain traditional prerogatives over editorial directions:

“If he wanted the editorial page to be libertarian or super conservative or super liberal. That's his decision.”
(08:45)

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The Significance of Fact-Checking in Modern Democracy

Enduring Value Despite Challenges

Despite the hurdles, Kessler maintains that fact-checking remains a cornerstone of informed democracy:

“The fact checking business, so to speak, is still very valuable and important. … the main thing is that with the rise of Trump and the rise of social media, there are just so many false claims that it's kind of hard for people to sort out what's true or not.”
(06:21)

He underscores that even if fact-checkers can't alter politicians' behaviors directly, their role in educating the public is indispensable.

---

Conclusion

Mary Louise Kelly concludes the episode by expressing gratitude toward Glenn Kessler and reiterating the essential role of fact-checking in maintaining democratic integrity. The departure of a key figure like Kessler raises concerns about the future of rigorous fact-checking amidst a transforming media landscape.

---

Produced by: Alejandra Marques Hanse and Connor Donovan
Engineering by: Ted Mebane
Edited by: Tin Beat Ermias and Sami Yenigun
Executive Producer: Sammy Yenigun

---

This summary encapsulates the critical discussions from the episode, providing insights into the evolution of fact-checking, the challenges posed by political figures like Donald Trump, and the broader implications for journalism and democracy.

Transcript

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Pinocchio. It is not the name at the top of President Trump's list of grievances, but it has repeatedly popped up in his speeches over the years.

[Donald Trump]

I have to be always very truthful because if I'm a little bit off, they call me a liar. They'll say he gets a Pinocchio. The stupid Washington Post they have Pinocchio. I mean, even if you like saying things perfectly, it's a Pinocchio. There's nothing you can say where you don't get a Pinocchio.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

That is from a campaign rally in 2019. Pinocchios are the rating system used by the Fact Checker at the Washington Post. The project launched in 2011, joining outfits like PolitiFact and Fact Check.org with a simple mission. Evaluate politicians claims for truthfulness. Their verdicts ranged from four Pinocchios just flat out totally wrong to the rare Geppetto check mark, completely accurate. In its 14 years, the fact Checker has debunked a mountain of dubious claims from both sides of the aisle.

[Barack Obama]

We will keep this promise to the American people. If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

President Obama's promise about his still in the works Affordable Care act eventually earned him four Pinocchios. This Mitt Romney ad from the 2012 presidential race got tagged for two.

[Barack Obama]

Under Obama, we've lost over half a million manufacturing jobs. And for the first time, China is beating us. Seven times Obama could have stopped China's cheating. Seven times he refused.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

And then, of course, came Trump.

[Donald Trump]

I am officially running for president of the United States and we are going to make our country great again.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Trump made more than 6,30,000 false or misleading claims during his first term, according to an analysis by the Post's Fact Checker. But neither Trump nor his backers seem to care. That's the grim reality that Glenn Kessler grapples with in his last column as the Fact checker. He took a voluntary buyout. He's leaving the Washington post after a 27 year career. Consider this In a world swamped by false claims, can fact checking still make a difference? From npr, I'm Mary Louise Kelly.

[Catherine Marr]

Hi, it's Catherine Marr, CEO of npr. Federal funding for public media has been eliminated. That means that the NPR network is moving forward in an uncharted future. But our commitment to you will never waver. Please give today to support the kind of journalism that democracy relies upon. Make your [e-mail] thank you.

[Planet Money Host]

This summer on Planet Money Summer School, we're learning about political economy. We're getting into the nitty gritty of what government does with things like trade, taxes, immigration and healthcare.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

So politics and economics, which are taught.

[Glenn Kessler]

Separately, they shouldn't be separated at all.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

I think you have to understand one.

[Glenn Kessler]

To really appreciate the other.

[Planet Money Host]

So what is the right amount of government in our lives? Tune into Planet Money Summer School from npr wherever you get your podcasts.

[Barack Obama]

The Fantastic Four are back again in a new movie, and it's an eye popping good time. We've seen the story before, but this time the vibe is different. It's brighter, set in a retro future with flying cars. Plus, it stars Pedro Pascal and works for casual viewers and nerds alike. We'll tell you why on Pop Culture Happy Hour Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

It's Consider this from npr. Glenn Kessler is one of many journalists making high profile exits from the Washington Post, some of whom cite the new direction the paper's leadership is taking. We did get into that in our interview, but we began at the end with the last line of Kessler's last column. It reads, in an era where false claims are the norm, it's much easier to ignore the fact checkers. Sobering words to close out a career at one of the nation's great papers. I asked Kessler how difficult were they to write?

[Glenn Kessler]

So I have been running the Fact Checker now for 14 and a half years, and what struck me was how when I reviewed the 3,000 or so fact checks I had written or edited.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

3,000? Wow.

[Glenn Kessler]

Yes, there was a very clear dividing line in the period, which was June 2015, and that's when Donald Trump took the escalator down and announced he was running for president. Before that moment, politicians paid attention to fact checks. They would be shamed by the Pinocchios that I would award, and they tried to keep their claims tethered to the truth as much as you would expect a politician to do. But Trump really changed the dynamic, and he said many things that were false. And even though he was fact checked as false, he would simply double down or triple down and keep saying them. And now he's back again and you can see falsehoods are actually being used to determine government policy.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

So where does that leave you? Feeling like the exercise of fact checking was still worthwhile, still worth doing, even if it didn't alter the behavior of the politicians who you were tracking?

[Glenn Kessler]

Right. The fact checking business, so to speak, is still very valuable and important. I didn't really fact Check claims to change the behavior of politicians. They're going to do what they're going to do. The fact checks are intended to make people better informed about complex policies. The more complex the issue is, the more apt a politician is going to try to mislead it. This main thing is that with the rise of Trump and the rise of social media, there are just so many false claims that it's kind of hard for people to sort out what's true or not.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

So I hear you saying that there is still great value in fact checking. You've said you would have liked the Fact Checker, the column to continue with somebody else writing it after you were gone. Were you given a reason why that was not possible at the Washington Post?

[Glenn Kessler]

Well, we tried to work out a period of time, and I was hoping for a longer period of time than the Post was willing to grant me. And the period of time that was finally offered did not seem worth it to actually locate someone and train them. They've left it open as to whether or not they will revive the Fact checker. I hope they do. It's an important part of the core of the Washington Post, which, as its motto says, democracy dies in the darkness. What the Fact Checker did was bring light to falsehoods and hold people to account. Now, Donald Trump may not listen to them, but he was quite fascinated with the Pinocchios and would often talk about how he hated getting Pinocchios. So clearly it made an impression on him.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

He was reading even as he disliked what he was reading.

[Glenn Kessler]

Exactly. And he would also cite, when I gave Pinocchios to his foes, he found it effective that way.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

He liked those columns better.

[Glenn Kessler]

Yes.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

So I mentioned the new direction that the Post's leadership is taking, including owner Jeff Bezos's decision that the editorial pages should, going forward, should promote personal liberties and free markets and not publish pieces that oppose those principles. For the record, Glenn Kessler, were you ever censored, Were you ever told by your bosses at the Post, hey, maybe stay away from fact checking that one thing?

[Glenn Kessler]

No, not at all. I had complete freedom. I had extraordinary freedom. And I should note very clearly that there's no indication that Jeff Bezos has ever interfered in any of the news side of the newspaper. As the owner, he, of course has the right to impose whatever kind of policies he wants on the editorial page, the opinion page. I mean, that's a traditional prerogative of an owner. And I don't begrudge him for. If he wanted the editorial page to be libertarian or super conservative or super liberal. That's his decision.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

As the owner, I do want to ask about what is happening in your newsroom, to the extent that you can comment on it. Some of your colleagues, former and current, have described a hollowing out of the Post newsroom. Is that the way you see it?

[Glenn Kessler]

I would agree with that. It's very sad to see so many talented, experienced reporters and editors leave the newsroom, particularly some who are at the height of their careers who go to some of our competitors like the New York Times or the Atlantic. And I don't quite understand the rationale for offering this buyout so broadly. It worked out well for me, but I think it's a mistake because you're losing really excellent people.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Well, Glenn Kessler, I wish you, well, much joy and much luck in your next chapters to come.

[Glenn Kessler]

Thank you very much.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

This episode was produced by Alejandra Marques Hanse and Connor Donovan, with engineering by Ted Mebane. It was edited by Tin Beat Ermias and Sami Yenigun. Sammy is also our executive producer. It's Consider this from npr. I'm Mary Louise Kelly.

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[Mary Louise Kelly]

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[Catherine Marr]

Yeah, like Arbitrage, Alpha, Otarchy.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

That's just what's in the news these days. There's also absolute advantage, aggregate demand, aggregate supply.

[Catherine Marr]

And this is just the A's.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Oh, animal spirits.

[Catherine Marr]

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