A new travel ban is coming. Will it hold up in court?

Summary

Consider This from NPR

Episode Summary: "A new travel ban is coming. Will it hold up in court?"

Release Date: June 5, 2025
Host: Mary Louise Kelly
Guest: Professor Stephen Vladek, Georgetown University Law Professor

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Introduction

In this episode of NPR's Consider This, host Mary Louise Kelly delves into the ramifications of President Trump's newly enacted travel ban. This policy revives and expands upon the controversial ban from Trump's first term, introducing restrictions on travelers from a dozen countries immediately and imposing additional limitations on seven more.

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Background of the Travel Ban

Mary Louise Kelly opens the discussion by outlining the implementation of the new travel ban:

Mary Louise Kelly [00:00]: "On Monday, a new travel ban goes into effect, barring people in a dozen countries from entering the U.S. Travelers from an additional seven countries will face restrictions."

The episode references President Trump's previous introduction of a similar ban during his first term, which sparked widespread protests and legal battles:

Mary Louise Kelly [00:20]: "President Trump announcing the ban earlier this week in a video message on social media. This fulfills something he has long promised to bring back, the travel ban he enacted during his first term."

Historical context is provided through archived statements and public reactions:

Stephen Vladek [00:35]: "I'm establishing new vetting measures to keep radical Islamic terrorists out of the United States of America. We don't want them here."

Protests and legal challenges characterized the initial instatement of the ban, often referred to as the "Muslim ban":

Protester [01:04]: "No fear. Refugees are welcome here. Let them in. Let them in. Let them in."

The legal battles culminated in the Supreme Court upholding the third iteration of the ban in June 2018:

Mary Louise Kelly [01:32]: "In June of 2018, the Supreme Court ultimately upheld the latest version, delivering a major victory to President Trump."

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Expert Analysis with Professor Stephen Vladek

To provide a deeper understanding of the new travel ban's legal standing, Mary Louise Kelly interviews Professor Stephen Vladek.

Comparison with Previous Bans

Professor Vladek highlights the strategic differences in the latest ban compared to its predecessors:

Stephen Vladek [03:54]: "What's really striking about the latest iteration of this kind of travel ban is really how radically different it looks from the clumsier, I think, less careful attempts we saw during the first Trump administration."

He notes that the new ban avoids explicitly targeting Muslim-majority countries, instead offering specific factual justifications for the selected nations:

Stephen Vladek [04:19]: "It doesn't single out Muslim majority countries. It tries to at least offer some kind of factual basis for why these countries and not others."

Legal Robustness and Supreme Court Consideration

Discussing the potential for the ban to withstand legal scrutiny, Professor Vladek references the Supreme Court's stance from the previous administration:

Stephen Vladek [05:12]: "The U.S. Supreme Court back in 2018... really did say that the president's actual motive is not that relevant to whether the underlying policy is lawful."

He emphasizes that the inclusion of exemptions—such as for green card holders and individuals with approved visas—strengthens the policy's legal standing:

Stephen Vladek [05:40]: "It's important... that this new travel ban carves out folks who have green cards, carves out folks who already have, you know, approved visas of various sorts."

Potential for Future Litigation

While the policy's wording may hold up in court, Professor Vladek warns about possible enforcement-related challenges:

Stephen Vladek [07:48]: "I think the words of this policy are probably going to do relatively well in court. But, you know, I would not put it past this administration to enforce it in a way that invites further lawsuits."

He anticipates that legal challenges will focus on the specific rationale for each country’s inclusion and the accuracy of the data supporting the ban:

Stephen Vladek [08:19]: "Litigation is probably going to focus far more specifically on the particular factual grounds that the government has come up with."

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Key Takeaways and Future Implications

Mary Louise Kelly and Professor Vladek conclude that while the latest travel ban is meticulously crafted to withstand immediate legal challenges, its enforcement will be crucial in determining its long-term viability. The administration's implementation strategies may open avenues for future lawsuits, particularly from affected visa holders and refugee groups.

Mary Louise Kelly [06:45]: "So we're talking around this a little bit, but I'll just ask directly the central question about how strong the legal underpinning for this latest ban is, in your view, will it stand up in court?"

Stephen Vladek [06:58]: "I think the words of this policy are probably going to do relatively well in court."

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Conclusion

The episode provides a comprehensive examination of President Trump's renewed travel ban, offering listeners detailed insights into its legal foundations and the potential challenges it may face. With expert analysis from Professor Stephen Vladek, NPR's "Consider This" equips audiences with the knowledge to understand the complexities surrounding this significant policy move.

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This summary excludes all advertisements, intros, outros, and non-content sections to focus solely on the substantive discussion surrounding the new travel ban.

Transcript

[Mary Louise Kelly]

On Monday, a new travel ban goes into effect, barring people in a dozen countries from entering the U.S. travelers from an additional seven countries will face restrictions.

[Stephen Vladek]

We will not allow people to enter our country who wish to do us harm, and nothing will stop us from keeping America safe.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

President Trump announcing the ban earlier this week in a video message on social media. This fulfills something he has long promised to bring back, the travel ban he enacted during his first term. Just seven days after being sworn in.

[Stephen Vladek]

I'm establishing new vetting measures to keep radical Islamic terrorists out of the United States of America. We don't want them here.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

That's the president speaking from the White House on January 27, 2017. Within 24 hours, protests erupted at airports around the country as the administration's temporary ban, often referred to as the Muslim ban, went into effect.

[Protester]

No fear. Refugees are welcome here. Let them in. Let them in. Let them in.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Then the legal challenges began.

[Protester]

There's been a court ruling regarding the president's revised travel ban.

[NPR Producer]

The court allowed full enforcement of the president's travel ban.

[Protester]

The appeals court has ruled against reinstating the president's travel ban.

[Stephen Vladek]

The Justice Department filed court papers today to salvage the Trump administration's latest travel ban.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

For more than a year, the court challenges piled up. The administration revised its travel ban, revised it again, and In June of 2018, the Supreme Court ultimately upheld the latest version, delivering a major victory to President Trump. Consider this. President Trump's travel ban is back and more expansive than before. Will it hold up in court? From npr, I'm Mary Louise Kelly.

[NPR Producer]

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[Mary Louise Kelly]

It's consider this from NPR. President Trump's travel ban takes effect on Monday. It's a revival of sorts of the ban from his first term. That travel ban was the subject of all kinds of legal challenges. Some legal scholars say President Trump has learned a lot since then, among them Stephen Vladek. He's a law professor at Georgetown University and has paid close attention to Trump's legal moves over the years. Welcome.

[Stephen Vladek]

Thanks for having me.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Your initial reaction to this new proclamation. I'm curious if there's anything in particular that sticks out.

[Stephen Vladek]

Yeah, I mean, I think what's really striking about the latest iteration of this kind of travel ban is really how radically different it looks from the clumsier, I think, less careful attempts we saw during the first Trump administration. You know, the government in 2017, 2018 really had to try three different versions before they found one that the Supreme Court would uphold. Really does seem like this version is based on some of the lessons learned from that. It doesn't single out Muslim majority countries. It tries to at least offer some kind of factual basis for why these countries and not others. You know, I think there will still be plenty of litigation challenging this, but it's not at least as obviously and facially vulnerable to litigation as we saw back in 2017.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Right. I'm thinking of the original travel ban, which everyone referred to as the so called Muslim ban. And that's something that looks quite different this time in terms of the countries that are included. I will note that that in the video that he dropped last night announcing this, he cited the attack this past Sunday in Boulder, saying that that attack underscored the dangers posed to the US by foreign nationals. The man charged with that attack is from Egypt, which is not among the countries listed in this new ban.

[Stephen Vladek]

Yeah, I mean, as is always the case with President Trump, there is a fair amount of daylight between what he says publicly and the actual policies to which he affixes his signature. But, you know, I think the problem here, for those who think that's a legal defect and not just an optical one, is, you know, the U.S. supreme Court back in 2018, when it upheld the third iteration of the first Trump administration's travel ban, really did say that the president's actual motive is not that relevant to whether the underlying policy is lawful. That the president's entitled to fairly broad deference when it comes to these kinds of immigration decisions about who's allowed to enter the United States in the first place. I think that's why it's important, although perhaps not ultimately sufficient, that this new travel ban carves out folks who have green cards, carves out folks who already have, you know, approved visas of various sorts, because those were some of the real stumbling blocks last time around that really led the courts to, you know, to stop the policy before it could get off the ground. I think this time around, the litigation is probably going to focus far more specifically on the particular factual grounds that the government has come up with for why, for example, you know, Laos is on the list, but Egypt is not. Whether the sort of the visa overstay data that the president purported to rely upon in his proclamation is actually both accurate and a legitimate basis, you know, I think that, Mary Louise, is where we're going to see a lot of the action.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

So we're talking around this a little bit, but I'll just ask directly the central question about how strong the legal underpinning for this latest ban is, in your view, will it stand up in court?

[Stephen Vladek]

So I think the distinction that we should draw here is, I do think on its face, this version is stronger than certainly the first two rounds we saw in the first Trump administration. It's probably on par with, with the third one, which is the one that the supreme court back in 2018 upheld. This Supreme Court that we have in 2025 is not going to be any more skeptical of this kind of policy than the one we had, you know, seven years ago. But, Mary Louise, as is so often the case, a lot of the devil will be in the details. And, you know, I would not put it past this administration to implement this policy in a, you know, ham handed, clumsy, if not even affirmatively malicious way that opens it up to other kinds of, you know, what the lawyers would call as applied legal challenges.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

So you're saying that there is what is actually written in the ban, the words, and then there's how it is enforced, how it is applied.

[Stephen Vladek]

That's exactly the distinction. And so it's, you know, my, my own view is that I think the, the words of this policy are probably going to do relatively well in court. But, you know, I would not put it past this administration to enforce it in a way that invites further lawsuits.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Last thing, when you say we should expect legal challenges, from what corner, where will you be keeping an eye on?

[Stephen Vladek]

So I think we're going to see, you know, efforts from folks maybe who are already in the United States but whose continuing ability to stay here is called into question by the travel ban, perhaps try to bring a lawsuit, maybe folks who have a particular type of visa that's not one of the visa categories that is exempted from the travel ban, maybe from, you know, refugee groups or other, you know, human rights driven immigration focused groups for whom, you know, this is a real problem for folks who might not yet have a visa but might have very strong legal arguments for why they should be allowed to come to the United States. You know, that's really where we saw the plaintiffs emerge back in the first Trump administration and the challenges to the first, second and third travel bans. You know, if we're going to call this the fourth Trump travel ban, I suspect we're going to see similar plaintiffs perhaps, you know, from different countries this time around.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Stephen Vladek is a law professor at Georgetown University. Thanks so much.

[Stephen Vladek]

Thank you.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

This episode was produced by Katherine Fink with audio engineering by Ted Mebane. It was edited by Tenbeat Ermuis. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigun. It's consistent. Consider this from npr, I'm Mary Louise Kelley.

[NPR Producer]

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