Podcast Summary: Consider This from NPR

Episode Title: AI is transforming crime, too
Air Date: November 26, 2025
Host: Ailsa Chang
Guest: Cooper Katz McKim (Producer, The Indicator from Planet Money)
Length: ~15 minutes

Episode Overview

This episode explores the rapidly growing intersection between artificial intelligence (AI) and cybercrime. Cooper Katz McKim joins host Ailsa Chang to discuss how AI is supercharging criminal activity—making it more efficient, cheaper, and accessible. It delves into the mechanics of modern cyberattacks, the evolution of criminal tools, and what both organizations and individuals are up against in this shifting digital threat landscape.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Surge in Data Breaches and Cybercrime

• Personal Context:
  • [00:10] Cooper describes his personal anxiety about constant data breach headlines, which led him to investigate the scope and causes behind the increase.
• Record Surge:
  • [00:38] The U.S. is on track for a record number of data breaches.
  • [00:52] Major institutions and even city governments have been targeted.

2. How AI is Changing the Crime Game

• Automation & Scalability:
  • [01:28] “They're faster, they're more opaque, and they're more autonomous than ever.” – Cooper Katz McKim
• Efficiency:
  • [03:36] AI automates processes like testing stolen passwords, drastically reducing time and technical skill required for attacks.
    • Quote:
    • “AI can automate that process and test which keys are useful way, way, way faster—in hours rather than days.” – Cooper Katz McKim [03:53]

3. The Spread and Accessibility of Cybercrime Tools

• Spear Phishing & Sophisticated Attacks:
  • [04:37] Spear phishing is increasingly personalized and convincing thanks to AI.
    • Stuart Madnik (MIT): “Guess what? AI systems can do that splendidly. Much faster and in many cases, higher quality than humans could.” [05:01]
• Criminal “Software as a Service”:
  • [05:43] Tools and phishing kits are sold online, lowering the entry barrier.
    • "There's literally subscription tiers for some of these services." – Cooper Katz McKim [05:54]
  • [06:11] Services like ransomware-as-a-service and DDoS-attack kits can now be rented even by people with no coding skills.
    • "People with no coding experience can now rent a kit for that and run them alone. So accessibility has just skyrocketed." – Cooper Katz McKim [06:37]

4. The Fight Against AI-enabled Crime

• Defensive AI:
  • [06:44] Companies like Reality Defender are selling AI tools to detect deepfake voices used in fraud.
    • Ben Coleman, CEO of Reality Defender: Banks and other organizations are at risk due to deepfake attacks on voice verification systems.
  • AI vs AI:
    • “It’s kind of funny, but what I learned was that AI itself is being used to fight AI.” – Cooper Katz McKim [07:13]
    • Deepfakes are so easy to generate; using voices as passwords is now unsafe. [07:35]
• Limitations of Current Protocols:
  • [07:50] Mark Kwapozewski (PNC Bank): Voice authentication is just one part of larger, multi-factor security strategies.
    • “There’s risk in everything. … That’s why you’re starting to see … multi-factor authentication or even just those other signals.” [08:04]

5. Targeting Individual Victims

• [08:28] Fraudsters can spoof numbers and use personal data to impersonate bank officials or family, scamming victims into transferring money.
  • “The criminal calling might also pretend to be your child or grandparent.” – Cooper Katz McKim [08:50]
• Personal Counter-Measures:
  • [08:52] Cooper shares that his family uses a safe word to authenticate emergency requests.
    • “We will ask for the safe word.” – Cooper Katz McKim [09:06]
    • Ailsa’s Reaction: “That is such a great idea. I need to come up with a safe word.” [09:09]

6. The Scale of the Threat and Need for Coordination

• Widespread Vulnerability:
  • [09:32] AI has made crime easier, removing almost all barriers to entry.
    • “There’s only so much an individual can do to protect themselves because, I mean, governments, businesses, academics, they need to work together.” – Cooper Katz McKim [09:44]
• Expert Warning:
  • [10:00] Stuart Madnik (MIT): “Doesn’t mean we’re not going to try to hold back the tide, but the tide is rising against us.”
    • Ailsa: “The tide is rising against us. That sounds ominous.” [10:07]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "AI can automate that process and test which keys are useful way, way, way faster — in hours rather than days."
  – Cooper Katz McKim, [03:53]

• "Guess what? AI systems can do that splendidly. Much faster and in many cases, higher quality than humans could."
  – Stuart Madnik, MIT, [05:01]

• "There's literally subscription tiers for some of these services."
  – Cooper Katz McKim, [05:54]

• "People with no coding experience can now rent a [DDoS] kit for that and run them alone. So accessibility has just skyrocketed."
  – Cooper Katz McKim, [06:37]

• “We will ask for the safe word.”
  – Cooper Katz McKim (on family anti-fraud practice), [09:06]

• “There’s only so much an individual can do to protect themselves...governments, businesses, academics, they need to work together.”
  – Cooper Katz McKim, [09:44]

• "Doesn’t mean we’re not going to try to hold back the tide, but the tide is rising against us."
  – Stuart Madnik, [10:00]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Personal hook & data breach context: [00:00–01:20]
• How AI is transforming cyber crime: [03:28–04:14]
• AI and spear phishing, expert perspective: [04:37–05:18]
• Rise of cybercrime businesses and criminal SaaS: [05:43–06:37]
• Defensive measures: AI fighting AI, bank responses: [06:44–08:26]
• Protecting individuals: fraud tactics and safe word: [08:28–09:09]
• Call for systemic protection and expert warning: [09:32–10:11]

Tone and Style

The episode maintains NPR’s hallmark blend of thoughtful inquiry and accessibility. There are moments of levity (e.g., jokes about spear phishing), but the tone is ultimately urgent and slightly ominous, reflecting the real gravity and rapid escalation of AI-driven crime.

Takeaways for Listeners

• AI has lowered barriers for cybercriminals and broadened the scale and sophistication of attacks.
• Both institutions and individuals face increasing risks from AI-enabled scams—vigilance, skepticism, and better security practices are essential.
• Multi-factor authentication and “safe words” for families are now necessary precautions.
• A collective response involving governments, businesses, and academia is critical, as individual actions alone cannot stem the tide.