An immigration lawyer on Trump's first month

Summary

Consider This from NPR: An Immigration Lawyer on Trump's First Month

Release Date: February 28, 2025

In this episode of NPR’s “Consider This,” host Ari Shapiro delves into the real-world implications of President Donald Trump’s actions during his first month back in the White House. Through an in-depth conversation with Andrea Lino, an immigration lawyer based in Seattle, the episode sheds light on the heightened anxieties and challenges faced by immigrants under the renewed administration’s stringent policies.

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1. Introduction

Ari Shapiro sets the stage by reconnecting with Andrea Lino, an immigration lawyer whose practice focuses on defending individuals detained by immigration authorities. This episode explores the tangible effects of Trump’s policies from the perspective of those directly impacted, providing listeners with a nuanced understanding of the administration’s approach to immigration.

2. Reconnecting with Andrea Lino

[00:00] Ari Shapiro:
“A few days before President Trump took over the White House for the second time, I got back in touch with someone I met years ago during the first Trump administration.”

Andrea Lino shares her role and responsibilities:

[00:08] Andrea Lino:
“My name is Andrea Lino and I am an immigration lawyer.”

[00:16] Andrea Lino:
“I represent individuals who are detained in immigration custody.”

[00:21] Ari Shapiro:
“Immigration was the central focus of Donald Trump's presidential campaign.”

[00:25] Donald Trump:
“When I'm reelected, we will begin and we have no choice. The largest deportation operation in American history.”

3. Initial Reactions to Trump's Second Term

Shapiro aims to understand the sentiment surrounding Trump's re-election by engaging with Andrea:

[00:34] Ari Shapiro:
“On Tuesday, he'll address Congress and the nation in a major speech where he'll sum up what he's accomplished in his first month. I wanted to know what that month has felt like to someone far outside Washington, D.C. who represents some of the people the administration is targeting for deportation.”

[00:58] Andrea Lino:
“I think that no knowing what's going to happen, it's scary.”

Andrea emphasizes the pervasive fear and uncertainty among her clients:

[01:03] Ari Shapiro:
“The worst part was the uncertainty.”

[01:05] Andrea Lino:
“But at the same time I feel that I am in the right place. So I feel pretty privileged to be able to use my work and my knowledge to make people feel safer.”

4. Impact on Clients and Enforcement Actions

Andrea recounts her efforts to calm and educate the immigrant community prior to Trump’s inauguration:

[01:16] Ari Shapiro:
“Before Trump was sworn in, Lina was spending time calming people down and educating them.”

[01:21] Andrea Lino:
“I say there is going to be a lot of action, there is going to be a lot of executive orders that sound very scary, but that, that doesn't mean that is going to happen.”

[01:35] Unknown Speaker 1:
“So you're telling people, don’t believe everything you hear.”

[01:38] Unknown Speaker 2:
“Exactly.”

Andrea underscores the importance of dispelling rumors to prevent mass panic:

[01:39] Andrea Lino:
“Don't believe everything you hear. I feel that what they want is like a lot of people get self-deported because they are afraid.”

The conversation delves into Andrea’s emotional state amid the political turmoil:

[01:53] Ari Shapiro:
“Or this is what I trained for.”

[01:55] Unknown Speaker 1:
“Bring it on.”

[02:01] Andrea Lino:
“Oh no, I feel more like, no, this, not again. I try to, like to have hope in humanity, but I am feeling pretty, pretty tired and it's not like a great feeling to start four years. And so I am ready to fight. I have the energy, but I feel, I feel sad for what is about to happen.”

5. Real-World Incidents and Enforcement Tactics

Andrea shares a distressing account of her client’s experience during the initial days of Trump’s presidency:

[03:27] Unknown Speaker 2:
“Today is January 27th, Monday.”

[03:32] Unknown Speaker 1:
“Exactly one week after President Trump took the oath of office.”

[03:37] Unknown Speaker 2:
“Correct.”

[03:38] Unknown Speaker 1:
“What’s the week been like for you?”

[03:40] Unknown Speaker 2:
“The field study has been a year. It’s just a lot. I don’t know where to even start.”

[03:47] Ari Shapiro:
“Andrea Lino told me about one client of hers in Denver. He was getting cancer treatment. A friend picked him up from chemo, and they stopped at a Walmart on the way home. The friend went into the store while the client stayed in the car. Then the client called Andrea and said, immigration agents are in Walmart arresting people.”

Andrea provides guidance on handling such encounters:

[04:07] Unknown Speaker 2:
“So all that I was telling him is that, well, you remain in the car, the car is your premise, so you don't open the door unless they have a warrant for your arrest.”

Despite Andrea's advice, tension escalates:

[04:41] Ari Shapiro:
“When we asked the Denver Office of Immigration and Customs Enforcement about this incident, they told us, quote, due to our operational tempo and the increased interest in our agency, we are not able to research and respond to rumors or specifics of routine daily operations.”

Andrea observes that Trump’s policies foster fear rather than immediate mass arrests:

[05:08] Unknown Speaker 2:
“I feel that he was just moving way faster than I anticipated, but at the end of the day, there are still rights, and he's not above the law, and his administration is not above the law. But it's definitely making our job harder, and it's making people panic.”

6. Legal Challenges and Victories

Amidst the turmoil, Andrea highlights a significant legal victory facilitated by her organization:

[06:27] Ari Shapiro:
“Andrea Lino told me her organization, the Northwest Immigrant Rights Project, did have a big victory in the last month when the ACLU went to court challenging Trump's executive order aimed at ending birthright citizenship.”

[06:43] Unknown Speaker 4:
“Undocumented women who are currently pregnant and about to have a child in the United States.”

Andrea explains the importance of this case:

[06:49] Unknown Speaker 1:
“And so that included some of your clients?”

[06:52] Unknown Speaker 4:
“That included, yeah, some of our clients. Correct.”

The ruling offers a temporary respite:

[07:01] Ari Shapiro:
“So when the judge issued the ruling.”

[07:02] Unknown Speaker 4:
“It was great. You know, it was like, okay, at least there is, like, we can believe again, in checks and balances, you know?”

However, Andrea remains cautious about future challenges:

[07:10] Unknown Speaker 4:
“I just worried for what's going to happen once that he goes to the Supreme Court, because I do not have a lot of faith in the Supreme Court anymore, but at least for one day. You could exhale.”

7. Ongoing Uncertainty and Future Outlook

Andrea discusses the broader implications of the administration’s focus beyond immigration:

[05:52] Unknown Speaker 4:
“Today is February 24, 2025.”

[05:55] Ari Shapiro:
“Does it now feel like the dust has settled a little bit, or is.”

[06:03] Unknown Speaker 4:
“I think that there have been so many other distractions from this administration that is affecting also other people now, not just immigrants, but also, I mean, federal workers, you know, transgender individuals. So the focus is not just immigration. So that feels kind of a relief in a weird way, because I also know that a lot of other people are, like, suffering.”

Andrea identifies a shift in enforcement tactics:

[07:25] Ari Shapiro:
“The big pattern she’s seen in the last month, not major workplace raids or neighborhood sweeps. Instead, it’s a lot of traffic stops.”

[07:33] Unknown Speaker 4:
“Basically, they just follow those people, stop them, and ask them where they are from, which is illegal. So you have to have a reasonable suspicion to believe that the person is here unlawfully.”

Geographical disparities in enforcement are highlighted:

[07:49] Ari Shapiro:
“And she sees big geographic differences. Like she told us about some clients who live in Eastern Washington. State Police there don't cooperate with ICE. But her clients work over the state line in Idaho, which is where cops pulled them over.”

A specific case exemplifies the challenges faced:

[08:04] Unknown Speaker 4:
“So they were arrested there? Well, they were going to work in construction in a house.”

[08:09] Ari Shapiro:
“Four people were in the car. One decided to just leave the country. Three of them decided to challenge their arrest.”

Andrea discusses the legal hurdles awaiting her clients:

[08:16] Unknown Speaker 4:
“We were honest with them and said that this could take months, you know, so. And months of detention.”

[08:24] Unknown Speaker 1:
“And how confident are you that when you show up in court and say this was an improper arrest, your clients will be released and be able to go back to their normal lives?”

The precariousness of the judicial process is evident:

[08:34] Unknown Speaker 4:
“It completely depends on the judge.”

A critical update follows:

[08:37] Ari Shapiro:
“The bond hearing for the three men was the day after we spoke. So the next day when she got out of court, Andrea Lino emailed us with an update. The judge deemed her clients a flight risk. Bond denied, she wrote. Pretty devastating for my clients and their families. She plans to continue challenging their arrest, but they'll remain locked up while their case unfolds.”

8. Conclusion

Andrea Lino’s experiences paint a vivid picture of the chaos and fear sown by Trump’s immigration policies. While legal battles offer fleeting victories, the overarching sense of uncertainty and the burden on both immigrants and legal defenders remain substantial. The episode underscores the human cost of political maneuvers and the resilience of those committed to upholding justice amidst adversity.

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Notable Quotes:

• Andrea Lino [02:01]:
  “Oh no, I feel more like, no, this, not again. I try to, like to have hope in humanity, but I am feeling pretty, pretty tired and it's not like a great feeling to start four years. And so I am ready to fight. I have the energy, but I feel, I feel sad for what is about to happen.”

• Kristi Noem [05:31]:
  “Leave now. If you don't, we will find you and we will deport you. You will never return.”

• Andrea Lino [07:09]:
  “But at the same time, I feel like I just worried for what's going to happen once that he goes to the Supreme Court, because I do not have a lot of faith in the Supreme Court anymore, but at least for one day. You could exhale.”

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This episode of “Consider This” offers a penetrating look into the frontline impact of immigration policies, illustrating the intersection of law, fear, and resilience. Andrea Lino’s firsthand accounts provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the systemic challenges and personal struggles faced by immigrants navigating an increasingly hostile environment.

Transcript

[Ari Shapiro]

A few days before President Trump took over the White House for the second time, I got back in touch with someone I met years ago during the first Trump administration.

[Andrea Lino]

My name is Andrea Lino and I am an immigration lawyer.

[Ari Shapiro]

She's based in Seattle with clients in a bunch of western states.

[Andrea Lino]

I represent individuals who are detained in immigration custody.

[Ari Shapiro]

Immigration was the central focus of Donald Trump's presidential campaign.

[Donald Trump]

When I'm re elected, we will begin and we have no choice. The largest deportation operation in American history.

[Ari Shapiro]

On Tuesday, he'll address Congress and the nation in a major speech where he'll sum up what he's accomplished in his first month. I wanted to know what that month has felt like to someone far outside Washington, D.C. who represents some of the people the administration is targeting for deportation. So I occasionally checked in with Andrea Lino over these last weeks, starting in mid January, just before Inauguration Day.

[Andrea Lino]

I think that no knowing what's going to happen, it's scary, she told me.

[Ari Shapiro]

The worst part was the uncertainty.

[Andrea Lino]

But at the same time I feel that I am in the right place. So I feel pretty privileged to be able to use my work and my knowledge to make people feel safer.

[Ari Shapiro]

Before Trump was sworn in, Lina was spending time calming people down and educating them.

[Andrea Lino]

I say there is going to be a lot of action, there is going to be a lot of executive orders that sound very scary, but that, that doesn't mean that is going to happen.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

So you're telling people, don't believe everything you hear.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Exactly.

[Andrea Lino]

Don't believe everything you hear. I feel that what they want is like a lot of people get self deported because they are afraid.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

I could imagine someone in your position feeling like, oh no, not this again.

[Ari Shapiro]

Or this is what I trained for.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

This is what I live for.

[Ari Shapiro]

Bring it on.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Where are you on a scale between those two emotions?

[Andrea Lino]

Oh no, I feel more like, no, this, not again. I try to, like to have hope in humanity, but I am feeling pretty, pretty tired and it's not like a great feeling to start for years. And so I am ready to fight. I have the energy, but I feel, I feel sad for what is about to happen.

[Ari Shapiro]

Where President Trump claims success fighting illegal immigration, many people affected by his policies experience chaos and panic. From npr, I'm Ari Shapiro.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

This message comes from Carvana. Sell your car the convenient way, Enter your license plate or vin, answer a few questions and get a real offer in seconds. Go to Carvana.com today.

[Ari Shapiro]

It'S Consider this from NPR.

[Donald Trump]

I, Donald John Trump, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute that I will faithfully execute.

[Ari Shapiro]

During Donald Trump's first week in office, he signed dozens of executive orders, and many were about immigration.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Today is January 27th, Monday.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Exactly one week after President Trump took the oath of office.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

Correct.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

What's the week been like for you?

[Unknown Speaker 2]

The field study has been a year. It's just a lot. I don't know where to even start.

[Ari Shapiro]

Andrea Lino told me about one client of hers in Denver. He was getting cancer treatment. A friend picked him up from chemo, and they stopped at a Walmart on the way home. The friend went into the store while the client stayed in the car. Then the client called Andrea and said, immigration agents are in Walmart arresting people.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

So all that I was telling him is that, well, you remain in the car, the car is your premise, so you don't open the door unless they have a warrant for your arrest. And my client was obviously pretty overwhelmed and upset, and the friend had the keys for the car. So after a lot of waiting, the friend came aside. And my understanding is that they arrested just one person, and it was because the person run. And it's like the first thing that we tell people is that you don't have to run because then you are giving them a reason, right, to arrest you.

[Ari Shapiro]

When we asked the Denver Office of Immigration and Customs Enforcement about this incident, they told us, quote, due to our operational tempo and the increased interest in our agency, we are not able to research and respond to rumors or specifics of routine daily operations. In that first week of the Trump presidency, Lino did not see mass arrests or a spike in deportations. What she saw was panic, and she thinks that was deliberate.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I feel that he was just moving way faster than I anticipated, but at the end of the day, there are still rights, and he's not above the law, and his administration is not above the law. But it's definitely making our job harder, and it's making people panic.

[Ari Shapiro]

Some of her clients have been scared enough to self deport, and the Trump administration has specifically said that's one of their goals.

[Kristi Noem]

Leave now. If you don't, we will find you and we will deport you. You will never return.

[Ari Shapiro]

Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem delivered this message in a video on her department's YouTube page.

[Kristi Noem]

Follow the law and you'll find opportunity. Break it, and you'll find consequences. The choice is yours, America. Welcome.

[Unknown Speaker 4]

Today is February 24, 2025.

[Ari Shapiro]

Does it now feel like the dust has settled a little bit, or is.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

There still that sense of chaos and uncertainty?

[Unknown Speaker 4]

I think that There has been so many other distractions from this administration that is affecting also other people now, not just immigrants, but also, I mean, federal workers, you know, transgender individuals, that the focus is not just immigration. So that feels kind of a relief in a weird way, because I also know that a lot of other people are, like, suffering.

[Ari Shapiro]

Andrea Lino told me her organization, the Northwest Immigrant Rights Project, did have a big victory in the last month when the ACLU went to court challenging Trump's executive order aimed at ending birthright citizenship. They needed to find people who would actually be harmed by the policy.

[Unknown Speaker 4]

Undocumented women who are currently pregnant and about to have a child in the United States.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

And so that included some of your clients?

[Unknown Speaker 4]

That included, yeah, some of our clients. Correct.

[Ari Shapiro]

So when the judge issued the ruling.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Siding with your clients, what was that.

[Ari Shapiro]

Day like for you?

[Unknown Speaker 4]

It was great. You know, it was like, okay, at least there is, like, we can believe again, in check and balances, you know?

[Andrea Lino]

But at the same time, I feel.

[Unknown Speaker 4]

Like I just worried for what's going to happen once that he goes to the Supreme Court, because I do not have a lot of faith in the.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Supreme Court anymore, but at least for one day. You could exhale.

[Unknown Speaker 4]

Yeah, exactly.

[Ari Shapiro]

The big pattern she's seen in the last month, not major workplace raids or neighborhood sweeps. Instead, it's a lot of traffic stops.

[Unknown Speaker 4]

Well, we go driving while black or brown, basically, they just follow those people, stop them, and ask them where they are from, which is illegal. So you have to have a reasonable suspicion to believe that the person is here unlawfully.

[Ari Shapiro]

And she sees big geographic differences. Like she told us about some clients who live in Eastern Washington. State Police there don't cooperate with ice. But her clients work over the state line in Idaho, which is where cops pulled them over.

[Unknown Speaker 4]

So they were arrested there? Well, they were going to work in construction in a house.

[Ari Shapiro]

Four people were in the car. One decided to just leave the country. Three of them decided to challenge their arrest.

[Unknown Speaker 4]

We were honest with them and said that this could take months, you know, so. And. And it's months of detention.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

And how confident are you that when you show up in court and say this was an improper arrest, your clients will be released and be able to go back to their normal lives?

[Unknown Speaker 4]

It completely depends on the judge.

[Ari Shapiro]

The bond hearing for the three men was the day after we spoke. So the next day when she got out of court, Andrea Lino emailed us with an update. The judge deemed her clients a flight risk. Bond denied, she wrote. Pretty devastating for my clients and their families. She plans to continue challenging their arrest, but they'll remain locked up while their case unfolds. This episode was produced by Alejandro Marquez Hanse and was edited by Ashley Brown with Nadia Lanci. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigun. Thanks to our Consider this Plus listeners who support the work of NPR journalists and help keep public radio strong. Supporters also hear every episode without messages from sponsors. Learn more at plus.NPR.org It's Consider this from NPR. I'm Ari Shapiro.

[Unknown Speaker 5]

It's Oscar season and we watched the nominated movies so you don't have to. We are making some bold predictions for Hollywood's biggest night, and we may help you win your Oscars pool. Listen to the Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast from npr.

[Kristi Noem]

Want to hear this podcast without sponsor breaks? Amazon prime members can listen to Consider this sponsor free through Amazon Music. Or you can also support NPR's vital journalism and get consider this [e-mail] that's plus.NPR.org.