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Dr. Andrew Wakefield
Doctor Wakefield, would you like to start this panel? Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, it's a great privilege to be here.
Dr. Paul Offit
25 years ago, Dr. Andrew Wakefield, then a researcher and physician, testified in front of Congress.
Dr. Andrew Wakefield
The purpose of my testimony is to report the results of the clinical and scientific investigation of a series of children with autism.
Dr. Paul Offit
At this hearing, Wakefield presented research he published in 1998 which suggested that the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine could be linked to the development of autism in.
Dr. Andrew Wakefield
Children, for which he had no evidence.
Dr. Paul Offit
That's Dr. Paul Offit, Director of the Vaccine Education center at the Children's Hospital Philadelphia, who was also at the hearing.
Dr. Andrew Wakefield
I was subpoenaed to testify about whether I thought it made biological sense that vaccines could cause autism, and I didn't.
Dr. Paul Offit
In an interview with NPR's Throughline podcast, Offit says that Wakefield's theory didn't hold up.
Dr. Andrew Wakefield
And so, study after study after study, more than a dozen studies done in seven countries on recons involving thousands and thousands of children.
Dr. Paul Offit
The connection between vaccines and autism has been debunked repeatedly, and Dr. Wakefield had his license stripped from him. Nevertheless, the theory has persisted for decades. And part of the reason why may be that autism diagnoses have soared over the last 30 years or so. President Trump noted the rising numbers when he addressed a joint session of Congress earlier this year.
Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.
And you can't even believe these numbers.
Dr. Paul Offit
And he promised his administration would get to the bottom of the rapid rise in autism.
Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.
So we're gonna find out what it is. And there's nobody better than Bobby.
Dr. Paul Offit
Bobby is Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Trump's secretary of Health and Human Services.
Dr. Andrew Wakefield
We know it's an environmental exposure. It has to be. Genes do not cause epidemics.
Dr. Paul Offit
Kennedy has spent years questioning the safety of vaccines and linking them to autism. And now he's using the power of his office to reopen. Settled. Consider Rates of autism have exploded in recent decades. Could the clinical definition of autism itself be partly to blame? From npr, I'm Juana Summers. The House of Representatives has approved a White House request to claw back two years of previously approved funding for public media. The rescissions package now moves on to the Senate. This move poses a serious threat to local stations and public media as we know it. Please take a stand for public media today@goacpr.org thank you.
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Dr. Paul Offit
It'S Consider this from npr. There was a New York Times headline that caught our eye this week, quote, autism rates have increased 60 fold. I played a role in that. It's an opinion piece written by Dr. Alan Francis. Dr. Francis, a psychiatrist, led the task force that created the fourth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders. The DSM is something of a bible for mental health professionals looking to diagnose and treat a wide variety of mental illnesses and neurological disorders. Dr. Allen joined me to explain how he thought the changes in clinical criteria are related to autism increases. I'm curious about the timing. In your piece in the Times, you wrote that the explosion in autism rates has become fodder, as you called it, for Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. The health secretary's conspiracy theories. Theories. Is that why you've decided to speak out now?
Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.
Exactly. I think if you search the worldwide, you could not find a less suitable person to be leading healthcare efforts in the United States or the world. And when he began redirecting resources vitally needed for research into the causes of autism and the best way of treating it back to trying to figure out a way, employ a deceptive method of proving the vaccine theory, I felt it was necessary to speak. And it became even worse when he fired the people on the vaccine advisory committee for the CDC and hired hacks to try to pursue the vaccine conspiracy theory that has been the passion of his life for the last 20 years.
Dr. Paul Offit
I'll just note that Kennedy's assertion that vaccines cause autism has been debunked repeatedly. There has been a host of studies that prove that they do not. But the fact does remain that there is still no clear answer on what causes autism. Can you say that the single biggest factor driving the explosion in autism rates is driven by ways in which the definition was changed?
Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.
Yeah. What happened was in 1994 we added a condition that was called Asperger's disorder. That was a very mild form of some of the same symptoms that occur in classic autism. Classic autism is absolutely unmistakable. The onset is before the age 3. Severity and disabilities are tragic and lifelong. And you cannot mistake classic autism for anything else. Asperger's is a very mild version of classic autism and therefore much more common and much more easily mistaken for other mental disorders or for normal eccentricity and social withdrawal. So the 60 fold increase was largely started by the change in definition in DSM 4 and then it was promoted by several factors. First and foremost originally was the fact that educational services were geared getting the diagnosis. Anytime there's a benefit related to a psychiatric diagnosis, it rates jump enormously. Secondly, the Internet spread the idea of autism like wildfire. Many people incorrectly self diagnosed themselves as autism. In some places it became almost a badge of brilliance. Differences in the definition and differences in the application of the definition and the fact that educational benefits have been associated with it, that's what caused the 60 fold increase, not vaccines. We know from very conclusive studies that vaccines do not cause autism.
Dr. Paul Offit
As we're talking, I can't help thinking about some of the countless people out there who have struggled their entire lives who get a diagnosis of autism as an adult and that's like a lightning bolt moment for them. Everything suddenly makes sense. How can that be a bad thing?
Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.
You know, I think it's definitely true that human distress looks for an explanation and different periods of time come up with different explanations that are suddenly very popular. Everyone jumps on the bandwagon. It helps to explain to the individual the problems they're having. So I'm sympathetic to people who feel that autism is an explanation for their problems. And sometimes it is and then it's very worthwhile. So some people have been identified who would have been missed and for them it can be very use. But for the vast majority of people who carry the diagnosis now, it's questionable. And second and third opinions would be useful.
Dr. Paul Offit
Dr. Francis, to your mind, what is the best way forward for people who, as you described them, are perhaps socially awkward, who believe they might have autism spectrum disorder?
Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.
Don't over diagnose yourself and don't accept what may be an over diagnosis from others. Very often the diagnosis of autism made early in life does not remain stable throughout life. And meeting a good friend, falling in love. Many life experiences help social awkwardness and it disappears and gets better with age. So I wouldn't be limited by the fact that I have an autistic diagnosis into thinking that I can't have a brighter future.
Dr. Paul Offit
That's Dr. Alan Francis, a psychiatrist who led the task force that created the fourth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of mental disorders. Dr. Francis, thank you.
Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.
Thank you very much. And always a pleasure listening to you.
Dr. Paul Offit
You heard reporting at the start of this episode from NPR's Throughline podcast. This episode was produced by Michael Levitt and Connor Donovan with audio engineering by Tiffany Veracastro. It was edited by Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigun. It's Consider this from npr. I'm Juana Summers.
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Consider This: Autism Rates Have Exploded. Could the Definition Be Partly to Blame? Consider This from NPR | Release Date: June 26, 2025
In this compelling episode of NPR's Consider This, host Juana Summers delves into the significant rise in autism diagnoses over the past few decades. The discussion explores whether the surge in autism rates is attributable solely to environmental factors and societal changes or if alterations in clinical definitions have played a crucial role.
The episode opens with a historical perspective on the infamous 1998 study by Dr. Andrew Wakefield, which falsely linked the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine to autism. Dr. Paul Offit, Director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children's Hospital Philadelphia, provides context:
"At this hearing, Wakefield presented research he published in 1998 which suggested that the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine could be linked to the development of autism in children, for which he had no evidence." [00:15]
Despite the study's discrediting and Wakefield losing his medical license, the vaccine-autism myth persists, partly fueled by soaring autism diagnoses.
Dr. Paul Offit highlights a New York Times headline that states, "Autism rates have increased 60 fold," attributing part of the blame to changes in diagnostic criteria rather than environmental factors or vaccines:
"Autism diagnoses have soared over the last 30 years or so. President Trump noted the rising numbers when he addressed a joint session of Congress earlier this year." [01:08]
Robert F. Kennedy Jr., then Secretary of Health and Human Services, is criticized for perpetuating the debunked vaccine theory:
"Kennedy has spent years questioning the safety of vaccines and linking them to autism. And now he's using the power of his office to reopen settled debates." [01:54]
Dr. Alan Francis, a psychiatrist who led the task force for the DSM-IV—the fourth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders—joins the discussion to explain how changes in clinical definitions have contributed to the rise in autism diagnoses.
"What happened was in 1994 we added a condition that was called Asperger's disorder. That was a very mild form of some of the same symptoms that occur in classic autism." [05:30]
Francis elaborates that the inclusion of Asperger's broadened the autism spectrum, making diagnoses more common:
"Asperger's is a very mild version of classic autism and therefore much more common and much easier mistaken for other mental disorders or for normal eccentricity and social withdrawal." [05:30]
He identifies several factors that amplified the increase in autism rates:
"Differences in the definition and differences in the application of the definition and the fact that educational benefits have been associated with it, that's what caused the 60 fold increase, not vaccines." [06:00]
The conversation shifts to the personal impact of autism diagnoses. Dr. Paul Offit reflects on individuals receiving diagnoses as adults, which can provide clarity but also raises concerns about over-diagnosis:
"As we're talking, I can't help thinking about some of the countless people out there who have struggled their entire lives who get a diagnosis of autism as an adult and that's like a lightning bolt moment for them." [07:06]
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. acknowledges that while some diagnoses are beneficial, the majority may be questionable:
"For the vast majority of people who carry the diagnosis now, it's questionable. And second and third opinions would be useful." [08:00]
Dr. Alan Francis emphasizes the importance of cautious diagnosis and the potential for personal growth beyond labels:
"Don't over diagnose yourself and don't accept what may be an over diagnosis from others." [08:11]
He encourages individuals to recognize that social skills can improve over time and cautions against being limited by a diagnosis:
"Meeting a good friend, falling in love. Many life experiences help social awkwardness and it disappears and gets better with age." [08:43]
The episode underscores the complexity behind the rising autism rates, attributing significant portions to changes in diagnostic practices rather than solely to environmental factors or misinformation about vaccines. By highlighting expert opinions and historical context, NPR's Consider This provides a nuanced understanding of the autism epidemic, urging listeners to consider both medical perspectives and the societal implications of diagnostic trends.
Key Takeaways:
For those seeking a deeper understanding of autism rates and their implications, this episode of Consider This offers valuable insights backed by expert analysis and thoughtful discussion.