Podcast Summary: Consider This from NPR

Episode: Do federal agents have 'absolute immunity?'

Date: January 15, 2026
Host: Ailsa Chang
Guest: David Cole, Georgetown Law Professor and former National Legal Director, ACLU

Episode Overview

This episode explores the question of accountability for federal agents following a fatal shooting in Minneapolis by an ICE officer. With protests erupting and tensions rising, the episode unpacks the complexities of federal versus state jurisdiction, the myth of "absolute immunity" for federal agents, and available legal recourse for victims’ families.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background of the Shooting and Protests

• Incident Recap: An ICE officer fatally shot Renee Macklin Goode, a 37-year-old woman, sparking widespread protests in Minneapolis.
• Government Response: Over 2,000 federal agents have been deployed to the Twin Cities. The White House has condemned the protests and robustly defended the officer involved.
  • Quote:

    “All weekend long you had agitators and violent American citizens out in the streets of Minneapolis protesting. Protesting what exactly?”
    – White House Official (00:35)

2. Absolute Immunity: Myth vs Reality

• White House Stance:
  Vice President J.D. Vance claimed that the ICE officer is protected by “absolute immunity” while performing federal duties.
  • Quote:

    “The precedent here is very simple…That guy is protected by absolute immunity. He was doing his job well.”
    – J.D. Vance (03:14)

• Expert Rebuttal:
  David Cole refutes the idea, clarifying that no agent is above the law:
  • Quote:

    “Absolutely not. And the vice president should know better…No one is above the law. Federal agents…are liable to the state to the same extent as everyone else with some exceptions, but they are not absolutely immune.”
    – David Cole (03:50)

3. Federal vs State Investigation Conflict

• Tension over Jurisdiction:
  The federal government is conducting its own inquiry, while Minnesota is being excluded from federal evidence. Top federal officials, including DOJ's Todd Blanche and President Trump, have publicly declared no wrongdoing before investigations conclude.
  • Quote:

    “You can't have a legitimate investigation. Who's going to trust the results of the government investigating itself when the top folks have all said before the investigation is concluded, nothing wrong happened here?”
    – David Cole (04:38)

4. State Prosecution of Federal Agents

• Legal Possibility:
  Federal agents can, in principle, be charged under state law unless their actions were “necessary and proper” to their federal duties.
  • Quote:

    “The state has the right to prosecute…The only immunity that the officer would have is if he could demonstrate that his actions were necessary and proper to carrying out his federal function.”
    – David Cole (05:27)

  • Cole suggests that, based on the video evidence, it would be difficult to argue the shooting was necessary.

5. Civil Lawsuits as Recourse

• Rights of Survivors:
  If criminal charges aren’t filed, the victim’s family could sue the officer under the Bivens doctrine (for constitutional violations) or sue the government under the Federal Tort Claims Act.
  • Quote:

    “Her survivors could sue the officer under a doctrine called Bivens…But violations of the Fourth Amendment…have been recognized as a permissible ground…”
    – David Cole (06:14)

6. The Importance of Fair Accountability

• Public Trust in Law Enforcement:
  Cole emphasizes that video-recorded violence must be dealt with transparently and justly to maintain public trust and prevent escalation.
  • Quote:

    “If people see that government officials are able to kill citizens without accountability, you lose trust in the law enforcement system. And when we lose trust…very, very bad things happen.”
    – David Cole (07:01)

  • He warns loss of trust can lead to violence, lack of cooperation with law enforcement, and the breakdown of the justice system.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• White House Official:

  “All weekend long you had agitators and violent American citizens out in the streets of Minneapolis protesting. Protesting what exactly?” (00:35)

• J.D. Vance:

  “That guy is protected by absolute immunity. He was doing his job well.” (03:14)

• David Cole:

  “Absolutely not...No one is above the law…they are not absolutely immune.” (03:50)

  “You can't have a legitimate investigation. Who's going to trust the results of the government investigating itself…?” (04:38)

  “The state has the right to prosecute.” (05:27)

  “Her survivors could sue the officer under a doctrine called Bivens…under the Federal Tort Claims act…” (06:14)

  “If people see that government officials are able to kill citizens without accountability, you lose trust in the law enforcement system.” (07:01)

Key Timestamps

• 00:00–01:08: Recap of Minneapolis shooting and protest fallout
• 03:14: White House, VP Vance asserts “absolute immunity”
• 03:50: David Cole begins legal analysis
• 04:38: Cole on problems with federal self-investigation
• 05:27: Cole explains state power and limitations in prosecuting federal agents
• 06:14: Civil legal options for survivors
• 07:01: Cole on the consequences of lost public trust

Summary & Takeaways

The episode debunks the notion that federal agents have “absolute immunity”, emphasizing that they are subject to prosecution and lawsuits like anyone else, unless their actions are strictly necessary for their federal role. The controversy underscores the importance of independent investigations and accountability to preserve trust in law enforcement—especially as public scrutiny and protests intensify following deadly incidents involving federal officers.