If Trump gets rid of Department of Education, what would it mean for schools?

Summary

Consider This from NPR: Processing...

Release Date: November 18, 2024
Host: Mary Louise Kelly

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1. Introduction: Trump’s Ambitious Education Plan

In the November 18, 2024 episode of NPR's Consider This, host Mary Louise Kelly delves into a bold and controversial promise made by President-elect Donald Trump: the elimination of the U.S. Department of Education. This significant move, if actualized, could reshape the landscape of American public education.

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2. Trump’s Proposal to Abolish the Department of Education

President Donald Trump has consistently advocated for reducing federal involvement in education. Reflecting on his statements, Kelly highlights:

• Trump’s Declaration:
  [00:06] Donald Trump: “I want to close the Department of Education and move Education back to the states where it belongs, and I'm going to close the Department of Education and move Education back to the states, and we're going to do it fast.”

This announcement aligns with Trump's broader agenda to decentralize governmental functions, emphasizing states' rights over federal oversight.

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3. Historical Context: The Birth and Evolution of the Department of Education

Kelly provides a concise history of the Department of Education, noting its relatively recent establishment:

• Creation:
  [00:53] Mary Louise Kelly: “Believe it or not, the Education Department in its current form is only about four decades old. It was then President Jimmy Carter, along with Congress, who elevated the department to a cabinet-level agency.”

• Scope and Responsibilities:
  [00:53] The department oversees a wide array of functions, including college student loans, aid for low-income public schools, and special education services.

Trump’s proposal is not unprecedented within Republican circles. Kelly references:

• Historical Precedent:
  [00:53] The idea of dismantling the Department of Education harkens back to Ronald Reagan’s 1982 State of the Union address, where he advocated for a smaller federal government.

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4. Feasibility of Eliminating the Department: Legislative Hurdles

To assess whether President-elect Trump can unilaterally abolish the Department of Education, Kelly consults experts:

• Constitutional and Legislative Requirements:
  [03:03] Mary Louise Kelly: “Can President Trump shut down the Education Department if he wants to do it?”
  [03:26] Max Eden (American Enterprise Institute): “Not on his own, no. The ED Department... was created by Congress, and it can only be officially abolished by a vote of Congress.”

• Political Dynamics:
  Despite Republicans controlling both the House and the Senate, the enduring filibuster poses a significant obstacle:

  [04:13] Rachel Pereira (Brookings Institution): “They would need some Democratic senators. And that seems incredibly unlikely unless they get rid of the filibuster.”

Max Eden adds that securing the necessary 60 votes in the Senate is highly improbable in the current political climate.

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5. Implications for Federal Education Programs

Even if the Department of Education were to be dissolved, existing educational funding programs might remain untouched:

• Autonomous Funding Streams:
  [04:23] Max Eden: “Many of the things that it does, like send money through Title 1 to low-income schools... would not automatically be stopped even if the department was closed.”

• Historical Funding Protections:
  [04:46] Programs such as Title I, established by Congress prior to the Department’s inception, are insulated from direct administrative elimination. These programs receive bipartisan support and are deeply embedded in federal education policy.

Eden emphasizes the political unfeasibility of eliminating these cornerstone programs:

• Political Reality:
  [05:46] Rachel Pereira: “Some of the schools who rely most on Title 1 are schools in poor, rural, white areas. And congressional Republicans have shown time and time again that they are not interested in hurting their constituents in that way by undoing those funding sources.”

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6. Alternative Strategies: Regulatory Influence over Education Policy

Given the legislative barriers, the Trump administration may resort to altering educational policies through regulatory means rather than outright departmental dissolution:

• Regulatory Adjustments:
  [06:02] Max Eden: “What is much more likely going forward is to see the Trump administration really using regulations which obviously don't require Congress to make the department reflect its political values.”

• Title IX as a Case Study:
  [06:25] The discussion pivots to how the Trump administration might influence education through interpretations of existing laws.

  [06:25] Max Eden: “For example, Title IX is the federal law meant to prevent sex-based discrimination in schools that receive federal funding... Trump has said he will walk it back on day one.”

  This back-and-forth with Title IX illustrates the ongoing tug-of-war over educational policies, with each administration reinterpreting the laws to align with its ideological stance.

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7. Conclusion: The Uncertain Future of Federal Education Oversight

The episode wraps up with a reflection on the unpredictable nature of federal involvement in education:

• Regulatory Roller Coaster:
  [07:31] Mary Louise Kelly: “Roller coaster does indeed sound like the apt term.”

As policies oscillate with changing administrations, the stability and direction of federal education oversight remain in flux. The likelihood of dismantling the Department of Education outright appears slim, but regulatory shifts may continue to shape the education landscape.

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Notable Quotes:

• Donald Trump on Education Department Elimination:
  [00:25] Donald Trump: “Notion of opportunity for all and of knowledge for all.”

• Max Eden on Legislative Challenges:
  [04:13] Max Eden: “It's really hard to see how you can do that without 60 votes in the Senate.”

• Rachel Pereira on Bipartisan Support:
  [05:46] Rachel Pereira: “Some of the schools who rely the Most on Title 1 are schools in poor, rural, white areas...”

• Max Eden on Regulatory Influence:
  [06:02] Max Eden: “They [Trump administration] can use regulations... to make the department reflect its political values.”

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Final Thoughts

NPR’s Consider This provides an insightful exploration into the potential dismantling of the Department of Education, examining the legal, political, and practical ramifications. While President-elect Trump’s proposal signifies a strong desire to overhaul federal education policy, substantial legislative and structural barriers make the complete elimination of the department unlikely. Instead, the focus may shift towards regulatory changes that subtly steer educational outcomes in line with the administration’s priorities.

For listeners seeking to understand the intricate dynamics of federal education policy and its future trajectory under the Trump administration, this episode offers a comprehensive and balanced analysis.

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Produced by: Mark Rivers
Edited by: Jeanette Woods, Courtney Dorning, Nicole Cohen
Executive Producer: Sami Yenigun

Transcript

[Mary Louise Kelly]

For years. Going back to his first term in office, Donald Trump has promised this and.

[Donald Trump]

One other thing I'll be doing very early in the administration is closing up the Department of education in Washington, D.C. i want to close the Department of Education and move Education back to the states where it belongs, and I'm going to close the Department of Education and move Education back to the states, and we're going to do it fast.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Eliminating the Department of Education is in line with the conservative blueprint for Trump's second term called Project 2025, a document from which Trump has actively distanced himself. Shutting down the department does not sit well with traditional supporters like Randy Weingarten, head of the American Federation of Teachers. It completely takes away and abolishes this.

[Donald Trump]

Notion of opportunity for all and of knowledge for all.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Believe it or not, the Education Department in its current form is only about four decades old. It was then President Jimmy Carter, along with Congress, who elevated the department to a cabinet level agency. Today, the department oversees everything from college student loans to aid for low income public schools and special education. But shutting down the department, it's been a talking point for Republicans pretty much from the beginning. It was part of Ronald Reagan's plan to shrink the size of the federal government, something he talked about in his 1982 State of the Union address.

[Donald Trump]

A budget plan I submit to you on February 8th will realize major savings by dismantling the Departments of Energy and Education and by eliminating ineffective subsidies for business.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Consider this Can President Elect Trump eliminate the Department of Education? And if he succeeds, what would that mean for America's public schools? From npr, I'm Mary Louise Kelly.

[Corey Turner]

This message comes from Capital One offering their cash back rewards card Quicksilver earn unlimited 1.5% cash back on every purchase everywhere. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capital1.com for details. This message comes from BetterHelp. It's important to take time to show gratitude towards others, but it's equally important to thank yourself. Life throws a lot of curveballs, and being grateful isn't always easy. Therapy can help remind you of all that you're worthy of and all that you do have. Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. [e-mail] NPR today to get 10% off your first month.

[Max Eden]

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[Mary Louise Kelly]

It's consider this from npr. President elect Donald Trump has promised to eliminate the US Department of Education, which got us wondering, does the president actually have the power to do that? And if so, what would happen? To walk us through some answers, we are joined by NPR's Corey Turner. Hi, Corey.

[Max Eden]

Hey, Mayor Louise.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Start right there. Can President Trump shut down the Education Department if he wants to do it?

[Max Eden]

Not on his own, no. The ED Department, as we heard, was created by Congress, a vote of Congress, and it can only be officially abolished by a vote of Congress. Yes, we know that Republicans have won control of both House and the Senate this time around. Even so, because the filibuster in the Senate, it will be very hard for Republicans to get any legislation passed without Democrats. Here's Max Eden of the conservative leaning American Enterprise Institute. It's really hard to see how you can do that without 60 votes in the Senate. And it's next to impossible to see how you get 60 votes on that anytime soon. And I put the same question to Rachel Pereira at the nonpartisan Brookings Institution. She agreed Republicans are going to need help to close the department.

[Rachel Pereira]

They would need some Democratic senators. And that seems incredibly unlikely unless they get rid of the filibuster. I mean, that's a big question in my mind. But right now, current Senate rules. No.

[Max Eden]

It's also worth pointing out, Mary Louise, that even if the department is somehow closed, many of the things that it does, like send money, as we heard, through Title 1 to Low Income schools, well, those would not automatically be stopped even if the department was closed.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Oh, that's interesting. Stay there for a second. Why are those funds just on some kind of autopilot or how's it work?

[Max Eden]

Well, it's because they were each also created like the department by an act of Congress. And so the only way to change them or stop them is again, through an act of Congress. In fact, the Title one money that I mentioned, that program was created by Congress years before the Education Department as it currently stands, years before it even existed. And the same was true with money that goes to support kids with disabilities. And I should also say, though here in all the conversations I've had, though, with folks about this idea, no one thinks that there's much interest these days in doing anything with those bedrock funding programs. Again, here's Max Eaton. I could not imagine all of those funding streams, all those programs being cut. That to me is just beyond the pale of political imagination. And I think part of the reason that's so hard to imagine, Rachel Pereira told me is that programs like Title 1 enjoy strong bipartisan support.

[Rachel Pereira]

Some of the schools who rely the Most on Title 1 are schools in poor, rural, white areas. And congressional Republicans have shown time and time again that they are not interested in hurting their constituents in that way by undoing those funding sources.

[Max Eden]

Now, I think what is much more likely going forward is to see the Trump administration really using regulations which obviously don't require Congress to make the department reflect its political values.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Okay, so now we get to the heart of it. What could incoming President Trump do even if Congress is not on board with his plan to shut down the department altogether?

[Max Eden]

Yeah. So let me give you one example. So Title IX is the federal law again passed by Congress. It's meant to prevent sex based discrimination in schools that receive federal funding. Well, the Biden administration used the regulatory process to interpret that law to expand protection to include sexual orientation and gender identity. But this interpretation of federal law really infuriated many conservatives. And Trump has said he will walk it back on day one, and that is something he can do. In fact, Title IX has been the subject of a kind of political ping pong match for years. The Obama administration expanded protections using its own interpretation of the law, which then the first Trump administration rolled back, wrote their their own version, their own interpretation of Title ix. Then came the Biden administration's interpretation. And now I think it's absolutely reasonable to expect the Trump administration to do the same. And we're just going to keep riding this Education Department regulatory roller coaster.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Roller coaster does indeed sound like the apt term. NPR's Cory Turner, thanks for your reporting.

[Max Eden]

You're welcome.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

This episode was produced by Mark Rivers. It was edited by Jeanette Woods, Courtney Dorning and Nicole Cohen. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun. It's consider this from npr. I'm Mary Louise Kelly.

[Ira Glass]

This is Ira Glass of this American Life. Each week on our show, we choose a theme, tell different stories on that theme. All right, I'm just going to stop right there. You're listening to an NPR podcast. Chances are you know our show. So instead I'm going to tell you we've just been on a run of really good shows lately. Some big, epic, emotional stories and some weird, funny stuff, too. Download us. This American Life.

[Rachel Pereira]

The Code Switch team spent Election Day talking to folks about how the outcome might impact them. It's a time capsule of people's hopes and fears before they knew the results.

[Max Eden]

One way or another, there's a change coming. I wanted to vote for Trump, but I voted for her. Gays for Trump. I cried this morning. I've been crying on and off. I'm terrified.

[Rachel Pereira]

Listen to Code Switch, the podcast about race and identity from npr.

[Corey Turner]

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