Federal workers reaffirming loyalty to the Constitution, not politics

Summary

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Summary: "Federal Workers Reaffirming Loyalty to the Constitution, Not Politics"

Podcast: Consider This from NPR
Air Date: October 4, 2025
Host: Andrew Limbong
Guest: Andrea Hsu, NPR Labor & Workplace Correspondent

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Overview

This episode examines the experiences of federal workers during President Trump's second term, particularly their reaffirmation of loyalty to the Constitution in the face of political pressure and administration-driven layoffs. It explores the emotional impact of ongoing workforce reductions, the pivotal role of the federal oath, and the profound challenges both federal workers and journalists face in the current climate of fear and uncertainty.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Federal Workers Publicly Reaffirm Their Oath

• The episode opens with federal workers and former employees gathering near the Capitol, reciting the federal oath as a protest against President Trump's threats to leverage the government shutdown for mass layoffs ([00:00]–[00:39]).
  • Notable quote:
    “We take an oath to uphold the Constitution. We’re not taking an oath to any one president. We’re here to serve all the American people.”
    — Andrea Hsu paraphrasing a common sentiment among federal workers ([00:51])
• The oath underscores workers' commitment to the Constitution rather than any administration.

2. Layoffs, Workforce Reductions, and Their Impact

• The Trump administration has pursued significant staff reductions, targeting probationary workers, cutting project funding, and seeking to use a shutdown as cover for more layoffs ([00:59]–[01:22]).
  • Example from Jenna Norton, a furloughed NIH worker:
    “Every awful thing that would happen in a shutdown, shuttering programs that Americans rely on, damaging our economy, firing federal workers, all of this is already happening.”
    — Jenna Norton ([01:22])
• The environment is tense, with employees fearful and under significant pressure.

3. The Challenges of Reporting on the Federal Workforce

• Andrea Hsu describes her unexpected shift from covering labor topics like auto workers and work-from-home trends to focusing almost exclusively on the federal workforce after President Trump’s second term began ([03:30]–[05:11]).

  • “I had done a couple stories, I guess, during the presidential campaign...But really most of my reporting was about, you know, auto workers and dock workers...I just had never covered the federal workforce before...I’m kind of grateful to have had this assignment this year because I’ve learned so much more about what our government does and what the people who work for the government do day in and day out.”
    — Andrea Hsu ([03:49])

• She details the steep learning curve and the collaborative effort among journalists to understand rapid developments and limited official information ([05:20]–[05:57]).

4. Fear, Retaliation, and Trust Issues Prevent Federal Employees from Speaking Publicly

• Both host and guest discuss extraordinary levels of fear and reluctance among federal employees to speak on the record, driven by job insecurity and possible retaliation ([05:57]–[06:25]).

  • “I did find that the stories where I could name people, they just resonated more with our audience. ...I just think it really helps our audience connect with them.”
    — Andrea Hsu ([06:25])

• Many sources need anonymity—often only providing a first initial or middle name. Verifying identities is crucial, with both sides sometimes swapping identification for trust ([06:25]–[09:27]).

5. Notable Cases: Veterans Willing to Speak Out

• Some military veteran employees, who felt their firings were unjust, were more willing to speak publicly—seeing it as an extension of their service and sense of right and wrong ([06:25]–[08:18]).

6. The New Culture of Fear

• Andrea draws a parallel between her experience reporting in 1990s China (where citizens were reluctant to talk to foreign media), and the new climate in the United States where even Americans hesitate to speak to journalists, especially regarding politically sensitive employment ([09:27]–[11:20]).
  • “I was just amazed at how, you know, almost easy it was to get great interviews because, you know, Americans are kind of hams…And I feel like that has changed. ...people are generally fearful of the climate that we’re in now.”
    — Andrea Hsu ([09:36])

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Memorable Quotes

• On the Oath:
  “We take an oath to uphold the Constitution. We’re not taking an oath to any one president. We’re here to serve all the American people.”
  — Andrea Hsu ([00:51])

• On Effects of the Shutdown:
  “Every awful thing that would happen in a shutdown...all of this is already happening.”
  — Jenna Norton, NIH ([01:22])

• On the Reporting Challenge:
  “It really helps to have a name, to know that this is a real person.”
  — Andrea Hsu ([01:49])

• On Changing Attitudes towards Speaking Out:
  “I feel like that has changed. ...people are generally fearful of the climate that we’re in now.”
  — Andrea Hsu ([09:36])

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00 – Federal workers recite oath as protest
• 00:51 – Reminder: loyalty is to Constitution, not any president
• 01:22 – Jenna Norton on ongoing impacts within agencies
• 03:49 – Andrea Hsu discusses starting to cover federal workforce
• 05:20 – Navigating the steep learning curve as a reporter
• 06:25 – Difficulties in obtaining sources willing to go public
• 09:36 – Andrea compares current U.S. fear to her experience in 1990s China

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Tone and Language

The conversation is empathetic, reflective, and honest. Both journalists communicate concern for the well-being and courage of federal employees, and demonstrate commitment to thoughtful, responsible journalism amid a politically charged and tumultuous environment.

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Conclusion

This episode spotlights the moral and practical dilemmas U.S. federal workers face under political pressure and ongoing layoffs, highlighting their steadfast commitment to the Constitution despite personal risk. It also provides a rare inside look at the challenges journalists encounter in telling these stories, emphasizing the importance of trust and public accountability at a precarious moment for both the workforce and the media.

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Transcript

[Andrew Limbong]

On Monday, two days before the government shutdown, a dozen or so current and former federal workers held a press conference near the Capitol building in Washington, D.C. and they repeated the same oath they took when they started their jobs.

[Andrea Hsu]

I, Ashley Wilder Smith, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States.

[Andrew Limbong]

They were there protesting against President Trump's threats to use the shutdown as an excuse to lay off more federal employees.

[Andrea Hsu]

Against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

[Andrew Limbong]

NPR's labor and Workplace correspondent Andrew Hsu has been reporting on federal workers all year and says many of them mention this oath to her when they share concerns about what this administration is doing.

[Andrea Hsu]

You know, we take an oath to uphold the Constitution. We're not taking an oath to any one president. We're here to serve all the American people.

[Andrew Limbong]

It's been a tough year for federal employees. First there was that fork in the road email buyout offer. And then tens of thousands of probationary federal employees were fired. And then more mass layoffs, funding cuts for projects and programs President Trump didn't support. And now Trump is telling Democrats the shutdown is an unprecedented opportunity to carry out even more layoffs of federal employees.

[Andrea Hsu]

As a federal worker, I am here to tell you that every awful thing that would happen in a shutdown, shuttering programs that Americans rely on damaging our economy, firing federal workers, all of this is already happening.

[Andrew Limbong]

That's Jenna Norton, currently furloughed. She works at the National Institutes of Health, where she oversees research into kidney disease. Andrea says it's hard to get federal employees to talk to her right now, especially on the record, but it is important for her to always try.

[Andrea Hsu]

I think it really helps to have a name, to know that this is a real person.

[Andrew Limbong]

Consider with many federal workers fearful of retaliation, it's hard to get them to talk to the press right now. Coming up, NPR's Andrew Hsu tells us why. From NPR, I'm Andrew Limbaugh.

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[Andrew Limbong]

It's consider this from NPR for this week's Reporter's Notebook. I wanted to talk to Andrea about covering the federal workforce in the middle of President Trump's efforts to reshape the federal government. And Andrea was telling me how her job completely changed on January 20, that the day President Trump began his second term.

[Andrea Hsu]

Before this year, I was and still am the labor and workplace correspondent for the business desk here at npr. But I really had not reported at all on the federal workforce or virtually at all. I had done a couple stories, I guess, during the presidential campaign and after the election, and I had done one story about telework in the government. But really most of my reporting was about, you know, auto workers and dock workers and baristas at Starbucks and work, you know, work from home trends and the four day work week and things like that. And I just had never covered the federal workforce before. But of course, you know, after starting on January 20th, President Trump just had all these changes that he wanted to bring to the federal workforce, and a lot of this was actually outlined in Project 2025. So his administration came in very ready to implement these dramatic changes. And we have great colleagues on the Washington desk, but just not enough people to cover all these different agencies. And I have to say, I was talking to a federal worker today, and I said, I'm kind of grateful to have had this assignment this year because I've learned so much more about what our government does and what the people who work for the government do day in and day out.

[Andrew Limbong]

I remember everything was moving very fast. How did you sort of start finding your way in the water there?

[Andrea Hsu]

You know, it was like a crash course in who works for the federal government. What are all these different agencies? There were agencies I'd never heard of, like the Merit Systems Protection Board, that were suddenly really important to the story. So it really was like a very steep learning curve those first few weeks, couple months. And you we did have a team of people at npr. You know, we were all pitching in. We were all hearing things from different people, sharing information, you know, trying Our best to figure out what was going on because there was some little official information coming out of the administration.

[Andrew Limbong]

Yeah, I mean, even. Even little old me as a culture reporter, I was, you know, doing stuff on federal workers. And the thing I kept running into was how hard it was to get people to speak on the record, to have their voice on the air. I mean, and with good reason. Right. These are people who. Their livelihoods are in limbo. Right. And they don't wanna, like, mess that up. And. Da, da, da. How did you sort of navigate that fear in your sources?

[Andrea Hsu]

Yeah, I mean, it was a real fear, and it continues to be a real fear now. So we did end up granting a lot of people anonymity, you know, just using their first initial or their middle name or something like. But I did find that the stories where I could name people, they just resonated more with our audience. I think it really helps to have a name to know that this is a real person in a digital story on our website. It helps to have a photo of the person. I just think it really helps our audience connect with them. And I will say there were not a lot, but a few, a handful of current federal employees who were willing to go on the record. And this started with these probationary workers who were fired en masse. Probationary workers are typically those who are in their first or second year on the job. They're still serving out their probationary periods. And in February, we were just flooded with these messages of people saying, I just got fired. They told me it was because of my performance, but I just had a great performance review. And a couple of the people who were willing to speak out were veterans, military veterans. And part of me thought, you know, these are people who've been through a lot. They have stepped up to serve the country. They've served the country for many years, some of them. And they have a real strong sense of what's right and wrong. And they knew their firings were wrong, and they were willing to talk about it on tape, you know, with their photo on our website. So I, you know, to this day, I'm grateful that some people are willing to speak about, you know, what has happened to them. While I'm also grateful for all the people who've reached out and who aren't, you know, who aren't comfortable doing that.

[Andrew Limbong]

Yeah, like those. Those voices help give, I think, like a support system. Right. To the people, you know, whose stories are on the record, sort of help back up everything that they're saying. Was there any like trust building that you had to do with some of your sources. Like, hey, I'm legit. I'm, you know, this is where I'm coming from. I'm not like, I'm not your stenographer, but here I'm coming from a good faith place.

[Andrea Hsu]

Yes. And I think it helped. The more stories we wrote, the more people saw our stories, people were reaching out. Because in our stories, we would put our signal IDs and say, you know, you can reach out to us if you want to share information. You know, oftentimes people did want to know who I was. And I, you know, in order to grant somebody anonymity, we had to confirm, verify ourselves that they were who they said they were, that they are a federal worker, that they do work for this or that agency. And we would sometimes ask people to show us, like, a government ID or like a email or did they have a LinkedIn page. Was there a way that we could verify? And I had several ask me, like, can I see your id? Can I make sure you're a real person? Yeah. And I thought, okay, that's fair.

[Andrew Limbong]

So I imagine by being around all these people, you got a sort of firsthand look at the culture of fear that these workers are living under. Right.

[Andrea Hsu]

People are rightfully concerned that speaking out could make them targets, not just of this administration, of the political appointees who might be overseeing their departments, but also sort of in the public sphere. I think people nowadays worry that if they're seen, if you can Google their name, you can find them on the Internet speaking to npr, being critical of this administration somehow, that they will be targeted. I think there's a real fear of that right now, Andrea. You know, I mean, like 30 years ago, I can't believe it was actually almost 30 years ago. I started my journalism career in China. I worked as a researcher in the BBC bureau in Beijing for a couple years in the late 90s. And, you know, people there were not that excited to talk to a foreign media outlet. The average citizen was not really willing to share their, you know, their personal opinions with you. And so when I came back to the US And I got this, got my job at NPR in 2002, I was just amazed at how, you know, almost easy it was to get great interviews because, you know, Americans are kind of hams. Like, they like to talk, they like to share their ideas. They, I mean, of course, not everyone, but there are a lot of people. Like, you know, we would go out and interview people or just approach people on the street and I was just I'm always amazed at how, how much people are willing to share, and I feel like that has changed. Obviously, people who are worried about their careers, they're worried about their livelihoods, they don't want to talk. But I think that people are generally fearful of the climate that we're in now.

[Andrew Limbong]

Andrea Xu covers the federal workforce for npr. Andrea, thank you so much.

[Andrea Hsu]

Hey, Andrew, thanks so much for talking about it.

[Andrew Limbong]

This episode was produced by Kyra Joachim and was edited by Adam Raney. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun. It's Consider this from npr. I'm Andrew Limbong.

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