Gov. Tim Walz is skeptical about Trump’s plan to de-escalate immigration crackdown

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Gov. Tim Walz is Skeptical About Trump’s Plan to De-escalate Immigration Crackdown

Podcast: Consider This from NPR
Host: Juana Summers
Guest: Minnesota Governor Tim Walz
Date: January 30, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, NPR’s Juana Summers sits down with Minnesota Governor Tim Walz to break down the ongoing federal immigration crackdown in Minnesota, the Trump administration’s mixed messages about de-escalation, public protests, and the broader implications for local communities. Walz candidly responds to criticisms from federal officials and political rivals, reflecting a tense local and national landscape. The discussion provides firsthand insight into challenges of governance, public safety, and civil liberties amid growing political and social unrest in Minnesota.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Status of the Federal Operation in Minnesota

• Walz outlines that despite talks of de-escalation from federal officials, there’s been little actual change on the ground.

• Quote:

  “Since my conversation on Monday with the president, I don't think there's been a lot of change. There's less smoke on the ground, but I have no indication that the numbers have come down.”
  (Walz, 02:48)

• He criticizes federal language, particularly Tom Homan referring to Minnesota as a “theater,” equating it to war zones:

  “That's words that are used in wars and in deployments to foreign countries.”
  (Walz, 02:59)

• Walz remains skeptical of any claims about a real drawdown:

  “Last night when the president was asked if he is drawing down, he said no. I believe it.”
  (Walz, 03:14)

2. Navigating Federal Uncertainty and Leading the State

• Governor Walz expresses frustration with the Trump administration’s inconsistent communication.

• Quote:

  “This is a president and administration that is constantly changing its mind and its message.”
  (Summers, 03:52)

• Walz stresses staying grounded in Minnesota values—justice, neighborliness, and peacefulness—even amidst federal unpredictability.

• He asserts that while the administration may signal “de-escalation,” the actual goal of “mass deportations” remains unchanged:

  “They have not changed their goal of mass deportations. They may try and change their tactics a little bit, but it doesn't change the underlying mission here, which is to cause great fear and chaos in communities...”
  (Walz, 04:32)

3. On Protests and First Amendment Rights

• The federal government has pushed back against local protests, calling for reductions in interference.

• Walz stands firm on upholding constitutional rights:

  “I'm not going to allow Tom Holman to characterize what are constitutionally protected rights of peaceful expression, of grievance against the government. It's foundational to our democracy.”
  (Walz, 05:31)

• He accuses federal actors of twisting realities and gaslighting:

  “They are trying to twist reality here with peaceful protest... Had there been no video of that, Alex and Renee would both be deemed terrorists.”
  (Walz, 05:42)

4. Responding to Federal Criticism and Rhetoric

• Attorney General Pam Bondi criticized Walz for his harsh description of federal law enforcement.

• Walz defends his rhetoric as honest reflection:

  “I have to use the English language to describe what I'm seeing. And in America, there are very little analogous descriptions I can give to what we're seeing. So I'm using what I have in my vocabulary to describe what I see.”
  (Walz, 06:49)

• He contextualizes his criticism as a reaction to federal retribution against Minnesota values and its history of supporting immigrants.

5. On Responsibility, Rhetoric, and Political Violence

• Summers asks about the consequences of heated rhetoric, noting recent violence including the killing of State Rep. Melissa Hortman.

• Walz insists on peaceful protest but refuses to mute outrage in the face of what he sees as abuses of power:

  “Yes, I think about it, and I gotta be candid with you. I'm probably doing a pretty good job of not speaking what's truly on my heart about these people... But in this moment, this has transcended politics to be a fundamental moral issue.”
  (Walz, 08:43)

• He rejects attempts to equate responsibilities on both sides:

  “So if you're asking me, am I gonna compromise with authoritarianism. Nope. Am I gonna compromise on an erosion of civil liberties. Nope.”
  (Walz, 09:06)

6. Direct Response to Critics—Senator Ron Johnson

• Explicitly rejects the assertion that Minnesota’s policies led to violence or impede safety:

  “Well, that's false. And I do have history of knowing this. Senator Johnson is a fool. He's wrong. Minnesota is not a sanctuary state. Minnesota is a bottom 10 state for violent crime.”
  (Walz, 10:04)

• Defends Minnesota’s record and warns similar resistance would happen in other states facing federal crackdowns.

7. On Trauma and Healing in Minnesota

• Walz addresses cumulative trauma in Minnesota, from George Floyd’s killing to current flashpoints, emphasizing community resilience:

  “Our people will do it. We are resilient people... policing has to be about trust. So Minnesotans have been through this.”
  (Walz, 11:13)

• He frames the current struggle as not just local or political, but historical and moral:

  “It's much easier to hold a democracy than to try and get one back... we are on the right side of history.”
  (Walz, 12:00)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Federal Trust:

  “I know who I'm dealing with. I know that they're not going to keep their word.”
  (Walz, 00:57)

• On Upholding Protest Rights:

  “I'm not going to compromise on the First Amendment.”
  (Walz, 05:30)

• On Moral Responsibility:

  “This has transcended politics to be a fundamental moral issue.”
  (Walz, 08:55)

• On Federal Retribution:

  “This is about retribution. And that means retribution to the people of Minnesota. It's retribution to the way we do things.”
  (Walz, 07:34)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:57: Walz voices skepticism about administration’s promises.
• 02:48: Discussion about the actual situation in Minnesota.
• 03:52: Addressing chaos from federal mixed messages.
• 04:32: Walz on unchanged goal of mass deportations.
• 05:30: Walz’s line-in-the-sand on protest rights.
• 06:49: Walz responds to Pam Bondi’s criticism.
• 08:43: On navigating rhetoric and violence.
• 10:04: Direct response to Sen. Ron Johnson’s criticisms.
• 11:13: Walz on healing and resilience in Minnesota.

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Tone and Style

The podcast maintains NPR’s signature thoughtful and probing tone, with Walz speaking resolutely, blending moral conviction with candid frustration. Summers provides space for substantial, straightforward answers.

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In Summary

This episode spotlights a tense standoff between Minnesota’s state government and the federal administration, with Governor Tim Walz articulating a clear position: unwavering support for constitutional rights, skepticism of Trump’s promises, and moral commitment to the well-being of Minnesota’s communities—despite intensifying political and social strain. The conversation captures both the stakes and the spirit of resistance among Minnesotans at a critical moment.

Transcript

[Juana Summers]

Tensions are high in Minnesota, but where do plans stand for the federal government to draw back federal officers from the state and de escalate? When asked about this on Thursday, President Trump said, we want to keep our country safe.

[Minnesota Governor Tim Walz]

We'll do whatever we can to keep our country safe. So not pulling back? No, no, not at all.

[Juana Summers]

Which came hours after White House borders are. Tom Homan said this Thursday, my main.

[Tom Homan]

Focus now is drawdown, based upon the great conversations I've had with your state and local leaders.

[Juana Summers]

Homan also said it depends on what local leaders do next.

[Tom Homan]

We are not surrendering the president's mission in immigration enforcement. Let's make that clear as we see that cooperation happen, then the redeployment will happen.

[Juana Summers]

Consider this. Minnesota's governor is skeptical about many things the administration is saying about de escalating its immigration crackdown.

[Minnesota Governor Tim Walz]

I know who I'm dealing with. I know that they're not going to keep their word.

[Juana Summers]

Coming up, we speak with Democratic Minnesota Governor Tim Walls. From npr. I'm Juana Summers.

[NPR Politics Host]

This week on the NPR Politics podcast. For months, the president's immigration strategy has been on full display. Now some Republicans are having a hard time defending it.

[Minnesota Governor Tim Walz]

Yeah, I think that's a good weather vane for where the politics are headed in all of this.

[NPR Politics Host]

Cracks in the MAGA coalition this week on the NPR Politics podcast. Listen on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Scott Carter]

This week on up first, more violence in Minneapolis. Democrats say they will block a spending bill in the Senate after another deadly ICE shooting. How will Republicans respond? And could the Trump administration rethink its strategy on immigration? We'll keep you posted every morning with three stories you need to know to start your day up. First, listen on the NPR app or wherever you get podcasts.

[Juana Summers]

It's Consider this from npr. Earlier today, I sat down with Governor Tim Walls at the Minnesota State Capitol to talk about ICE enforcement in his state. Here is some of our conversation, and you can watch full video of the interview on NPR's YouTube channel and at npr.org I just want to start big picture for people who are not in Minnesota, as you and I are, what is the status of Operation Metro surge in your state right now and does that align with what you have been hearing from the president, administration officials that you have been speaking with in recent days?

[Minnesota Governor Tim Walz]

I would say since my conversation on Monday with the president, I don't think there's been a lot of change. There's less smoke on the ground, but I have no indication that the numbers have come down I will say I'm concerned over the last day or so, the developments, it's not helpful when Tom Holman talks about deployments and he referred to the state of Minnesota as a theater. That's words that are used in wars and in deployments to foreign countries. And again, the last night when the president was asked if he is drawing down, he said no, I believe it. I believe that part about what he said. So as far as it goes, it feels like there is a pause. But the tension amongst people here and the skepticism amongst people here is high. And I have reiterated time and time again that we want to find a way forward with this and can only do that factually with them. But we need some type of action.

[NPR Politics Host]

Let me ask you this.

[Juana Summers]

This is a president and administration that is constantly changing its mind and its message. Earlier this week you heard the president say he wanted to de escalate a little. And as you point out, you just heard the president say, you know, no pullback. How do you lead your state to lead the people here in Minnesota when you don't know what's coming next, you don't know what direction they're going to turn.

[Minnesota Governor Tim Walz]

Yeah, well, I think you stay grounded in our values. We stay grounded in caring for our neighbors. We stay grounded in that justice matters. We stay grounded in staying peaceful in the face of this and grounded in encouraging people to continue to take pictures, dictate what was here. And I said it. And I don't even think the president himself would disagree with this. They have not changed their goal of mass deportations. They may try and change their tactics a little bit, but it doesn't change the underlying mission here, which is to cause great fear and chaos in communities and to be very honest, very ineffective in actually targeting what they say is the worst of the worst. I'm pretty sure Liam, our little five year old, was the worst of the worst. And as the world has found out, not only are Rene and Alex not the worst of the worst, they might be the best of the best.

[Juana Summers]

We heard borders are Tom Homan, who is here in your state. He spoke and he seemed to suggest that he wanted to see cooperation from you and other local leaders. And one of the things that he suggested he wanted to see is a reduction in interference from protesters and activists on the ground here in the Twin Cities. We're speaking, I just want to note, on a day when there's a general strike here in Minnesota across the country, are there any agreements on demonstrations that you're willing to make?

[Minnesota Governor Tim Walz]

I'm not going to compromise on the First Amendment. I'm not going to allow Tom Holman to characterize what are constitutionally protected rights of peaceful expression, of grievance against the government. It's foundational to our democracy. They are trying to twist reality here with peaceful protest. They tried to do it with Alex, and they will go back, you know, they will dig up your kindergarten yearbook or whatever to try and discredit you. Look, I think there's really little debate in this. Had there been no video of that, Alex and Renee would both be deemed terrorists. Their families would probably be detained by now, and they would continue to spout these lies. Kristi Noem continues to go on and try and defend. Now, I will give her this. She maybe has a lawyer or something now, I don't know. She's saying she's just taking marching orders. I remind everyone that's no defense. That's no defense. In carrying out what they've done.

[Juana Summers]

I'll note that the administration has not only faulted protesters and observers. Attorney General Pan Bondi wrote a letter last week and she criticized you personally for calling federal law enforcement, and I'm quoting here, Trump's modern day Gestapo. How do you respond to her accusation that your rhetoric and remarks from other state officials aren't doing enough, in her words? These are her words to support the men and women who are risking their lives to protect Americans and uphold the rule of law?

[Minnesota Governor Tim Walz]

Well, I've never said anything other than to be peacefully protesting, and I'll stand by my words. I have to use the English language to describe what I'm seeing. And in America, there are very little analogous descriptions I can give to what we're seeing. So I'm using what I have in my vocabulary to describe what I see. And I think everybody who woke up Saturday morning and witnessed that probably would come up to the same conclusion. Look, the attorney general's not a serious person and I think we saw through this and they said the quiet part out loud. I understand. My job is to. I need to. And again, dealing with what would be a normal world. My job is to approach this, measured to be a statesman. But I'm not naive. That's not who I'm dealing with. That is not who these folks are. So to America, I would just say I'm going to continue to speak up. I'm going to continue to express my anger and disgust and my expectations that Pam Bondi be an independent voice for justice and not take their march. Look, the president telegraphed what was happening here. This was about retribution. And that means retribution to the people of Minnesota. It's retribution to the way we do things. And I think many people here in Minnesota knows is they cannot stand that this state honors immigration.

[Juana Summers]

I do want to push you, though, on the political environment, the rhetoric that we're seeing lately. It is not lost on me that you and I are having this conversation where we saw State Representative Melissa Hortman, another Democratic lawmaker. Melissa Hortman was killed. What happened with Ilhan Omar, congresswoman, this week? Do you feel at all that you have a responsibility to help bring the temperature of the rhetoric that we're hearing in San Francisco?

[Minnesota Governor Tim Walz]

Yes. That's why I talk about peacefulness all the time. That's why I talk, to make sure that we're staying within the bounds of the law. I'm not going to say, gee, you guys should just be a little softer here. When you push someone to the ground and put a gun near their head. I'm gonna find the words that express the outrage that I'm feeling. Yes. I think about it, and I gotta be candid with you. I'm probably doing a pretty good job of not speaking what's truly on my heart about these people to try and find that. And that is part of politics. That is part of how you get things done. But in this moment, this has transcended politics to be a fundamental moral issue. So if you're asking me, am I gonna compromise with authoritarianism. Nope. Am I gonna compromise on an erosion of civil liberties. Nope. So I'm gonna go ahead and reject that. Both sides are responsible for this. There's one clear side that's doing this.

[Juana Summers]

Yesterday on All Things Considered, my colleague spoke with Wisconsin Republican Senator Ron Johnson, and he invoked you. So I'd like to ask you about something that he said, speaking about the situation here in Minnesota.

[Tom Homan]

There are people that need to be apprehended because they're criminals, murderers, rapists, sex, human drug traffickers that need to be apprehended and either jailed or deported. And that right now is what the sanctuary cities and people like Mayor Fry and Governor Walts are resisting and that have led to the tragedy. Had there not been an organized effort to resist those law enforcement actions, those two individuals in Minneapolis would still be alive.

[Juana Summers]

Governor Wallace, how would you respond to that?

[Minnesota Governor Tim Walz]

Well, that's false. And I do have history of knowing this. Senator Johnson is a fool. He's wrong. Minnesota is not a sanctuary state. Minnesota is a bottom 10 state for violent crime. You've got a United States senator that once Again, does did he not watch the videos? Did he not see what happened there? And I'm just incredibly proud that Minnesotans are not going to stand back and take the boot to their neck. They're not going to stand back and capitulate on their responsibilities. And I'm pretty sure that Senator Johnson's been on the wrong side of history on every single vote he's taken. So I will say this. The folks of Wisconsin, we have deep affinity with, I can tell folks and tell this administration if they try the same thing in Wisconsin, they'll get very similar results you're getting in Minnesota. So I don't really put much talk into Senator Johnson.

[Juana Summers]

I mean, it's not lost on any of us that this is a state that has been through a lot in recent years from the killing of George Floyd in 2020. Your state's now another flashpoint involving violence. You've talked about, I've heard you talk about in recent days, the moral outrage done to the Minneapolis community. Governor, how do you intend to help people here heal from the trauma that they are experiencing?

[Minnesota Governor Tim Walz]

Yeah, well, the thing is, is our people will do it. We are resilient people. And just to be clear, the president bending a little bit and then, of course, backtracking. Now, the reason that he is bending is because of the faceless, nameless leadership that's on the streets that is organizing peaceful protests at a scale. You saw it. The same thing is why we needed justice with Geor Floyd, that policing has to be about trust. So Minnesotans have been through this. But you're right, the murder of one of our true shining stars in Melissa and Mark, the attempt on a senator and his wife. We have been through a lot. And in each one of those cases, we're mocked, downplayed our state's grieving. I'm grieving with them. But I think what we understand is this is bigger than us. And I would just to your listeners say this happens everywhere. It's much easier to hold a democracy than to try and get one back. And I'm just going to state it that again. I'll go ahead. And we are on the right side of history.

[Juana Summers]

Minnesota Governor Tim Walls, thank you so much for sitting down with us.

[Minnesota Governor Tim Walz]

Thank you for telling the story.

[Juana Summers]

This episode was produced by Megan Lim, Matt Ozug and Karen Zamora with audio engineering by Andy Huether. It was edited by Ashley Brown and William Troupe. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun. And thanks to our Consider this plus listeners who support the work of NPR journalists and help keep public radio. Strong supporters also hear every episode without messages from sponsors and unlock bonus episodes of Consider this. Learn more at plus.NPR.org. It's Consider this from npr. I'm Juana Summers on Ye Gods with Scott Carter.

[Tom Homan]

Here from the Faithful, I told my.

[NPR Politics Host]

Very Catholic mother that she needs to meet Jesus.

[Tom Homan]

The faithless.

[Scott Carter]

I just so don't believe in God and the fearless.

[Juana Summers]

Serve people, connect with people. That's how we thrive.

[Tom Homan]

If life's a mystery, we investigate who done it.

[NPR Politics Host]

I pray to the humor God.

[Tom Homan]

Listen religiously to Ye Gods with Scott Carter wherever.

[NPR Politics Host]

Yeah, get your podcasts on NPR's Wild Card podcast. Oprah on the art of being alone. Are you good at being alone?

[Scott Carter]

Oh, my God, I'm a master at it.

[Juana Summers]

Tell me more.

[Scott Carter]

I cherish it.

[Minnesota Governor Tim Walz]

I revel in it. I can't wait to be alone.

[NPR Politics Host]

Watch or listen to that Wild Card conversation on the NPR app or on YouTube @NPRWildcard.

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