How have RFK Jr.'s vaccine policies impacted America's public health?

Summary

Consider This from NPR

Episode: How have RFK Jr.'s vaccine policies impacted America's public health?
Release Date: July 25, 2025
Host: Mary Louise Kelly

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Introduction: The Central Question of RFK Jr.'s Tenure

Mary Louise Kelly sets the stage by highlighting that Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s tenure as Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS) is predominantly defined by his influence on vaccine policy. The confirmation hearing showcased Republican Senator Bill Cassidy's skepticism about Kennedy's shift from his long-held vaccine criticisms.

Bill Cassidy [00:15]: "Does a 70-year-old man, who spent decades criticizing vaccines and who's financially vested in finding fault with vaccines, can he change his attitudes and approach now that he'll have the most important position influencing vaccine policy in the United States?"

RFK Jr.'s Historical Stance on Vaccines

Before his political appointment, RFK Jr. was a prominent figure in vaccine skepticism, promoting theories such as the debunked claim that vaccines cause autism. His public appearances, including interviews on platforms like Piers Morgan's show and TalkTV, emphasized his belief that vaccines lacked adequate testing despite extensive scientific evidence supporting their safety.

Mary Louise Kelly [00:34]: "Before he entered politics, Kennedy made a career out of stoking doubt about vaccines. He promoted theories contradicted by mountains of scientific evidence, like the idea that vaccines cause autism."

Senate Confirmation: A Divided Senate

During his confirmation, Senator Cassidy expressed doubts but ultimately supported Kennedy, citing his promises to work within existing vaccine approval systems and maintain the CDC's stance that vaccines do not cause autism.

Bill Cassidy [01:09]: "We need a leader at HHS who will guide President Trump's agenda to make America healthy again. Based on Mr. Kennedy's assurances on vaccines and his platform to positively influence Americans' health, it is my consideration that he will get this done."

Conversely, Democrats like Senator Patty Murray criticized Republicans for supporting Kennedy, fearing he would undermine vaccination programs.

Senator Patty Murray: "Republicans are choosing to pretend it like it is in any way believable that RFK Jr won't use his new power to do exactly the thing he's been trying to do for decades – undermine our vaccines."

Policy Changes Under RFK Jr.'s Leadership

Six months into the administration, significant shifts in vaccine policy have been observed:

1. COVID-19 Vaccine Recommendations:

   • Scaling Back Recommendations:
     The administration has reclassified COVID-19 vaccines, recommending them only for high-risk groups (ages 65+, individuals with certain health conditions). This excludes healthy younger adults and children from routine vaccination.

     Rob Stein [04:32]: "The COVID vaccines were becoming like the flu shots... now they're saying only people most likely to get really sick should routinely get vaccinated."

   • Pregnant Women and Children:
     The CDC has removed recommendations for vaccinating pregnant women and now advises parents to consult pediatricians about vaccinating healthy children.

     Bill Cassidy [05:18]: "I couldn't be more pleased to announce that as of today, the COVID vaccine for healthy children and healthy pregnant women has been removed from the CDC recommended immunization schedule."

2. Reorganization of the CDC's Vaccine Advisory Committee:

   • Dismissal of Experts:
     All 17 members of the existing CDC vaccine advisory committee were fired and replaced with seven new members selected by Kennedy, many lacking traditional medical or research backgrounds.

     Ping Huang [07:37]: "RFK Jr. Deciding who should and shouldn't be getting them and announcing it to the world, which bypasses this sort of... expert vetting process..."

   • Defense by New Chair:
     Martin Koldorff, the new chair, defended the changes, asserting that the new members are science-based and focused on restoring trust in vaccines.

     Bill Cassidy [07:47]: "We're somehow anti-vaxxers or so. But I think that's just kind of nonsense."

Reactions from the Medical Community and Public Health Experts

The medical community has largely reacted negatively to these changes:

• Erosion of Trust:
  Experts like Dr. Yvonne Maldonado from Stanford argue that the administration's actions are diminishing public trust in vaccines, counteracting efforts to stabilize or increase vaccination rates.

  Dr. Yvonne Maldonado: "We're dismissing science and facts and we're accepting things on the basis of either no data or poor data or outright false data... undermines public trust... also undermines people's willingness to get vaccines."

• Mixed Messaging and Policy Uncertainty:
  The divergence between federal policy changes and established medical guidelines is creating confusion, with potential for states to adopt varying policies, further complicating public understanding and adherence.

  Ping Huang [11:24]: "We are at a crossroads. The government is changing how they're making vaccine policy, and professional medical groups are saying, we like the way things were made before."

Real-World Implications of Policy Shifts

The policy changes have tangible effects on vaccine access and coverage:

• Insurance Coverage:
  With vaccines no longer universally recommended, insurance companies may cease to cover certain vaccinations, placing financial burdens on individuals who still wish to receive them.

  Ping Huang [09:56]: "It shouldn't be the case that people have to actively wonder whether they are eligible for a vaccine and whether they'll be able to get it."

• Availability and Cost:
  COVID-19 vaccines, now estimated to cost around $200 per dose, may become less accessible as healthcare providers reduce stock or refuse to administer them without federal recommendations.

  Rob Stein [10:03]: "People could still get vaccinated by paying for the shots themselves, but Covid shots are expensive... Pharmacists may be unable or unwilling to give you a shot because federal authorities aren't recommending it for you anymore."

• Other Vaccines Under Scrutiny:
  The administration has also targeted seasonal flu vaccines containing thimerosal and is reconsidering the necessity of the hepatitis B vaccine for all infants, aligning with long-standing but scientifically unsupported concerns.

  Ping Huang [10:29]: "HHS has also banned seasonal flu vaccines that contain thimerosal... Looking into the whole way we vaccinate kids... specifically the need for the hepatitis B vaccine."

Looking Ahead: Future Directions and Potential Outcomes

The divergence between government policy and medical expertise suggests a fragmented future for vaccine guidelines in the U.S.:

• Separate Guidelines:
  Professional medical groups are developing their own guidelines in opposition to HHS policies, leading to conflicting messages for the public.

• State-Level Variations:
  States may adopt differing vaccine policies, resulting in a patchwork of regulations that complicate nationwide public health efforts.

Ping Huang [11:24]: "States may actually start having very different policies from each other."

Conclusion: A Crossroads for Public Health

Mary Louise Kelly concludes by emphasizing the critical juncture at which America's public health policy stands, heavily influenced by RFK Jr.'s controversial approach to vaccines. The episode underscores the tension between governmental authority and medical expertise, highlighting the precarious balance between public trust and policy efficacy.

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Produced by: Connor Donovan
Edited by: Scott Hensley and Jeanette Woods
Executive Producer: Sami Yenigun

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and conclusions from the NPR podcast episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened.

Transcript

[Mary Louise Kelly]

It was clear even before he got the job that Robert F. Kennedy Jr. S tenure as Secretary of Health and Human Services would be defined by one question. Here's how Republican Senator Bill Cassidy laid it out during Kennedy's confirmation hearing.

[Bill Cassidy]

Does a 70 year old man, 71 year old man, who spent decades criticizing vaccines and who's financially vested in finding fault with vaccines, can he change his attitudes and approach now that he'll have the most important position influencing vaccine policy in the United States?

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Before he entered politics, Kennedy made a career out of stoking doubt about vaccines. He promoted theories contradicted by mountains of scientific evidence, like the idea that vaccines cause autism. And he suggested that many common vaccines, which have been studied for decades and administered to hundreds of millions of people, that they haven't been adequately tested, as he argued on Piers Morgan, uncensored on TalkTV.

[Bill Cassidy]

Therefore we do not know what the risk profile for any of these products are and we do not know.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

In the Senate, Cassidy ultimately concluded that Kennedy could change his attitudes and approach. He voted in favor of Kennedy's nomination. He said Kennedy promised to work within the current vaccine approval system and preserve information on the CDC website, pointing out that vaccines do not cause autism.

[Bill Cassidy]

We need a leader at HHS who will guide President Trump's agenda to make America healthy again. Based on Mr. Kennedy's assurances on vaccines and his platform to positively influence Americans health, it is my consideration that he will get this done.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Democrats took a different view. Here's Senator Patty Murray of Washington State. Republicans are choosing to pretend it like it is in any way believable that RFK Jr won't use his new power to do exactly the thing he's been trying to do for decades. Undermine our vaccines. Well, six months into the Trump administration, RFK Jr now has a track record we can dig into. Consider this. RFK Jr promised he would not take away Americans vaccines. Many medical experts say his changes are already chipping away at Access Foreign I'm Mary Louise Kelly.

[Catherine Marr]

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[Mary Louise Kelly]

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[Rob Stein]

Buy, plus get premium benefits at a.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Collection of hotels when booking through Capital One Travel. What's in your wallet? Terms apply [e-mail] hi, it's Catherine Marr, CEO of NPR. Federal funding for public media has been eliminated. That means that the NPR network is moving forward in an uncharted future. But our commitment to you will never waver. Please give today to support the kind of journalism that democracy relies upon. Make your [e-mail] thank you. It's Consider this from NPR. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Has already made big changes to vaccine policy. He's shaken up the process for vaccine recommendations and scaled back eligibility for Covid vaccines for a start. NPR health correspondents Rob Stein and Ping Huang are here to talk through what this will mean for Americans access to vaccines. Hey, Mary Louise, I wanna start by just digging in on the COVID vaccines because they have been so much in the headlines these last several years. Rob, you kick us off what is happening with COVID vaccine.

[Rob Stein]

Yeah. So that's the huge first change that the Trump administration made under Kennedy. The COVID vaccines were becoming like the flu shots. You know, everyone gets an updated jab at least once a year. But Kennedy and his team are now saying only people most likely to get really sick should routinely get vaccinated, only people age 65 and older or who have some health issue. That means a lot of people, a healthy 14 year old, a 40 year old, even a 64 year old are no longer on the list. And Mary Louise, that's not all. The CDC dropped the recommendation that pregnant women get vaccinated and is now telling parents, wait, talk to your pediatrician first about whether you should vaccinate your healthy kids or not. Kennedy announced all this in the video.

[Bill Cassidy]

On X. I couldn't be more pleased to announce that as of today, the COVID vaccine for healthy children and healthy pregnant women has been removed from the CDC recommended immunization schedule.

[Rob Stein]

And that was a real bombshell.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Hold on and stay on that word for a second. Bombshell. Why is it a bombshell? Is it bad policy? Ping?

[Ping Huang]

Well, this policy change really goes against what a lot of medical experts were thinking, especially the part about pregnant women who can get really sick from COVID And also, vaccinating pregnant women can protect their babies as well. And we know that Covid can be as dangerous to the youngest kids as it is to older people. Now, on the other hand, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention had already been considering changing COVID vaccine policy to only recommend shots for people at higher risk of Severe Covid and you know.

[Rob Stein]

Mary Louise, the administration argues that so many people have so much immunity now that it makes sense to stop and rethink this and that this will help rebuild trust in vaccines by the government requiring new evidence before telling most healthy people they still really need to keep getting shot after shot. And this would bring the US in line with how lots of other countries do it. And the administration estimates that as many as 200 million Americans would still be eligible because they have, say, you know, a weak immune system, obesity, heart disease, even just sedentary lifestyles.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

So what kind of reaction are y' all hearing? Ping?

[Ping Huang]

Yeah, well, in the public health community, some people are super alarmed about it, mostly because of the way it was done. So in the, in the case of the COVID vaccines, it was RFK Jr. Deciding who should and shouldn't be getting them and announcing it to the world, which bypasses this sort of, you know, multi step expert vetting process that's been going on for decades in terms of how this gets done. So that was sort of the first thing. And then that was followed shortly by another move last month when RFK Jr. Fired all 17 members of the CDC's vaccine advisory committee. Now, you've probably heard of this. This is a group of outside experts. They usually have backgrounds in vaccines, immunology, pediatrics. And he's replaced them so far with seven new members that he picked. And many of them don't have the traditional medical or research background that these members typically have.

[Rob Stein]

But, you know, Mayor Louise In a rare interview with us just yesterday, the new chair of the committee, Martin Koldorff, defended the new members of that of.

[Bill Cassidy]

False news media about the members of the committee, that we are somehow anti vaxxers or so. But I think that's just kind of nonsense. There is misconceptions that we're not science based and I think that's complete nonsense.

[Rob Stein]

And he says the administration is focused on restoring trust in vaccines.

[Bill Cassidy]

Well, I think what has eroded trust in vaccines has been the way that the COVID vaccine was handled. Then they start questioning not just the COVID vaccine, but other vaccines as well.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

It's interesting that emphasis on, on trust and eroded trust. As we know, trust is so hard to build and so hard to regain once it's lost. Is it possible that these moves could restore trust in vaccines? Ping?

[Ping Huang]

Well, some critics, like Dr. Yvonne Maldonado, she's a pediatrician at Stanford, one of the members of this committee that Kennedy fired, she says the administration's actions are actually having the opposite effect.

[Catherine Marr]

We're dismissing science and facts and we're accepting things on the basis of either no data or poor data or outright false data. And so that's what's confusing.

[Ping Huang]

Maldonado said that the tone of the new administration is to question the safety and efficacy of vaccines, even when that's been demonstrated over and over again. And she thinks that that actually undermines public trust, which was already declining. And it also undermines people's willingness to get vaccines.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

So just step back, Robstein. And setting aside the issues of undermining or building public trust, what are the actual real world implications of these shifts?

[Rob Stein]

Yeah, so even though most people don't bother getting vaccinated against Covid anymore, many people still do want the shots. And RFK Jr's changes would mean that insurance wouldn't be required to pay for vaccinating some people, you know, like pregnant women, healthy younger adults, and even possibly kids. Now, insurers might decide they want to anyway, but it would be a big change and adds to the uncertainty. I talked about this with Jennifer Nudzo, who runs Brown University's Pandemic Center.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

All of this is just unacceptable.

[Catherine Marr]

It shouldn't be the case that people have to actively wonder whether they are eligible for a vaccine and whether they'll.

[Ping Huang]

Be able to get it.

[Rob Stein]

You know, people could still get vaccinated by paying for the shots themselves, but Covid shots are expensive, about $200 for each jab. Doctors offices may stop stocking the vaccines. Pharmacists may be unable or unwilling to give you a shopp because federal authorities aren't recommending it for you anymore.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

And then what about beyond the COVID vaccine? What about other vaccines? What changes are you tracking? Ping?

[Ping Huang]

Yeah, so currently, you know, in addition to the changes that we've been talking about with the COVID vaccines, HHS has also banned seasonal flu vaccines that contain thimerosal. That's a mercury based preservative. And honestly, it really wasn't used that much. And so it's not a very big practical change. But it's being seen as a victory among people who have long quite the safety of vaccines and have been pushing for many years this disproven theory that thimerosal causes autism. And there's also more on the horizon. Martin Koldorff, who we heard from earlier, that's the vaccine advisory committee chair, he made it clear that they're looking into the whole way we vaccinate kids, you know, with an eye towards reducing or spreading out the number of vaccines that kids get. And he also questioned specifically the need for the hepatitis B vaccine, which is currently recommended for all infants at birth.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Well, so I guess this leaves me wondering, where does this leave us? Where do things go from here?

[Ping Huang]

Ping well, we are at a crossroads. The government is changing how they're making vaccine policy, and professional medical groups are saying, we like the way things were made before. We want that to continue. So they're actually banding together to create separate guidelines, which means that the public is going to be hearing some mixed messages going forward, and states may actually start having very different policies from each other.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

NPR health correspondents Peng Huang and Rob Stein, thanks to you both.

[Ping Huang]

You're welcome.

[Rob Stein]

You bet.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

This episode was produced by Connor Donovan. It was edited by Scott Hensley and Jeanette Woods. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun. And before we go, a quick thank you to our Consider THIS plus listeners who make the journalism you hear on this show possible supporters also hear every episode without messages from sponsors. You can learn more at plus.NPR.org It's Consider this from NPR. I'm Mary Louise Kelly.

[Bill Cassidy]

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[Catherine Marr]

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