In second term, will Trump punish news outlets that anger him?

Summary

Summary of "Consider This" Episode: "In Second Term, Will Trump Punish News Outlets That Anger Him?"

Introduction

In this episode of NPR's Consider This, hosts Ailsa Chang and media correspondent David Falkenflik delve into the fraught relationship between former President Donald Trump and the American news media. With Trump's potential return to the White House, the discussion centers on his previous antagonistic actions towards the press and explores the implications of a possible second term on media freedom and journalistic integrity.

Trump’s Antagonistic Relationship with the Media

Ailsa Chang opens the discussion by highlighting Trump's hostile stance towards the press during his first term, citing instances where he labeled the media as "fake news" and threatened punitive measures against major news outlets.

"President elect Donald Trump's win of a second term in the White House has prompted intense reporting and analysis from the news media, as well as some soul searching and concerns." [02:36]

David Falkenflik elaborates on Trump's disparaging remarks about the media, emphasizing his call for severe actions against news organizations he deemed unfavorable.

"He has particularly continued to foster and to benefit from a continued plunge in trust in the news media." [03:48]

Potential Punishments and Threats

The conversation shifts to the specific threats Trump has made regarding the press. Falkenflik discusses Trump's pledges to imprison reporters, loosen libel laws, and strip broadcast licenses from major networks like ABC, CBS, and NBC.

"He suggested that he would make libel laws looser, that is easier for places to successfully sue news outlets for coverage that they felt treated them unfairly." [06:09]

Falkenflik also touches upon Trump's threats to penalize public broadcasters such as PBS and NPR, potentially jeopardizing their funding and operational capacities.

"It would go after public broadcasting like PBS and NPR, only a modest amount. A couple percent of points of NPR's funds typically comes from federal sources, but our member stations get a lot more." [06:09]

Media Preparation for a Second Trump Term

The media's response to Trump's reelection includes strategizing to maintain journalistic integrity while navigating potential political pressures. Major news organizations like The New York Times and The Washington Post are evaluating how to continue their roles as watchdogs without becoming targets themselves.

Falkenflik notes the contrasting approaches within the media landscape:

"You have the Guardian and Mother Jones and some of the investigative outlets. They're saying, hey, we're going to be here. We're not owned by billionaires. We don't have interests in front of the federal government. And we're going to be under pressure, but we are going to be here to serve the needs of the public." [07:55]

Meanwhile, larger newspapers like The Washington Post are exercising caution to avoid further antagonizing Trump, balancing aggressive reporting with strategic restraint.

"They intend to do intensive, aggressive accountability reporting anytime it's needed and required of it, but that it's going to avoid cheap shots and a lot of sort of the histrionics and rhetoric." [08:28]

Strategies for Maintaining Press Freedom

Falkenflik discusses how different media outlets are preparing to uphold press freedom in the face of potential governmental pressures. He highlights The New York Times' focus on sustaining free speech and analyzing patterns from autocratic nations to reinforce the press's role in a healthy democracy.

"We are studying what happens in autocratic nations, how a press maintains its independence, how news organizations, while not being part of any oppositional force, are part of the checks and balance in a functioning democratic process." [08:45]

Conclusion

As the podcast wraps up, Ailsa Chang and David Falkenflik underscore the critical role of the media in a democratic society and the challenges it may face with Trump's potential return to power. The episode emphasizes the importance of resilient journalism and the need for media organizations to adapt strategically to safeguard their independence and continue serving the public interest.

Notable Quotes

• "Trump found out for sure he didn't really need the mainstream media." — David Falkenflik [04:54]

• "He is looking, or appears to be looking to punish outlets that failed to cover him and his approach in the way that he wants." — David Falkenflik [06:09]

• "We are going to be here to serve the needs of the public." — David Falkenflik [07:55]

Key Takeaways

• Antagonism Towards Media: Trump's first term was marked by a hostile approach to the press, including labeling unfavorable coverage as "fake news."

• Threats of Media Punishment: Trump has threatened various punitive measures against media outlets, including loosening libel laws and penalizing broadcasters.

• Media Strategy: News organizations are strategizing to maintain their watchdog roles while navigating potential political pressures in a possible second Trump term.

• Press Freedom: Ensuring press freedom remains a central concern, with media outlets exploring ways to resist authoritarian tendencies and uphold democratic principles.

This episode provides a comprehensive analysis of the complex dynamics between Donald Trump and the media, offering insights into the potential future of journalism in a politically charged environment.

Transcript

[Ailsa Chang]

Since his first term in office, President elect Donald Trump has had an antagonistic relationship with the press, to say the least.

[David Falkenflik]

A few days ago, I called the fake news the enemy of the people.

[Ailsa Chang]

And they are. No, I'm not gonna give you a question. I'm not gonna give you a question.

[David Falkenflik]

Can you state category? You are fake news, sir? I tell you what, CNN should be ashamed of itself having you working for them. You are a rude, terrible person.

[Ailsa Chang]

He's called for media outlets like CBS and ABC to lose their licenses over unfavor. Like here he is on Fox and Friends after ABC hosted this year's presidential debate.

[David Falkenflik]

I mean, to be honest, they're a news organization. They have to be licensed to do it. They ought to take away their license for the way they did that.

[Ailsa Chang]

And the press was front of mind again as he spoke at a Pennsylvania rally just a couple days before the election, reflecting on another potential assassination attempt.

[David Falkenflik]

To get me, somebody would have to shoot through the fake news. And I don't mind that so much.

[Ailsa Chang]

Media outlets like the New York Times have been preparing for what a second Trump term might look like. Executive Editor Joseph Kahn recently spoke to npr.

[David Falkenflik]

The publisher devoted a team of people and a significant effort to looking at the ways in which the rule of law protections for the press could be worn away by either authoritarian leaders or by populist leaders who to rally their supporters against independent media.

[Ailsa Chang]

Consider this. Donald Trump has suggested that in his second term, he will take on the press with more than just words. So just how might he do it? And how will media organizations respond? From npr, I'm Ilsa Chang.

[David Falkenflik]

This message comes from NPR. Sponsor the Capital One Venture X card. Earn unlimited 2x miles on everything you buy, plus get access to a $300 annual credit for bookings through Capital One Travel. What's in your wallet? Terms apply details at capital one.

[Ailsa Chang]

Com.

[David Falkenflik]

This is Ira Glass of this American Life. Each week on our show, we choose a theme, tell different stories on that theme. All right, I'm just going to stop right there. You're listening to an NPR podcast. Chances are you know our show. So instead I'm going to tell you we've just been on a run of really good shows lately. Some big, epic, emotional stories and some weird, funny stuff, too. Download us this American Life.

[Ailsa Chang]

Okay, so does this sound like you?

[David Falkenflik]

You love NPR's podcasts.

[Ailsa Chang]

You wish you could get more of all your favorite shows, and you want to support NPR's mission to create a more informed public. If all that sounds appealing, then it is time to sign up for the NPR plus bundle. Learn more at plus.NPR. work. It's consider this from NPR. President elect Donald Trump's win of a second term in the White House has prompted intense reporting and analysis from the news media, as well as some soul searching and concerns. During the campaign, Trump pledged to imprison reporters and strip major television networks of their broadcast licenses as retribution for coverage that he did not like. NPR media correspondent David Falkenflik joins us now to talk about the fractious relationship between Trump and the news media and how it might all play out over the next four years. Hi, David.

[David Falkenflik]

Hey, Elsa.

[Ailsa Chang]

All right, so what lessons do you think the media should take away from Trump's win, his second win in this cycle?

[David Falkenflik]

He has particularly continued to foster and to benefit from a continued plunge in trust in the news media. So what does that mean this time around? Well, this time around, you know, Trump decided after a first debate with Kamala Harris didn't go well for him. He just avoided a second one, seemed to pay absolutely no penalty in the public's thinking about him. Similarly, he didn't just decide not to be interviewed by 60 Minutes. He backed out of what CBS says was an agreement to do so. Again, absolutely no harm to him in terms of how voters thought about him. Instead, he went to spend time with podcasters like Joe Rogan and Theo Vaughan. These aren't explicitly political shows, but they talk about politics and they do it in a way that is more natural for many of the young male voters that Trump was seeking to get. And let's not forget Rogan has a bigger audience than TV news shows, and he and Vaughn and some of the others Trump talked to are much less likely to trip Trump up, you know, holding him accountable for specifics about his policies or proposals or his past record. The big lesson, if you're asking the question, is I think Trump found out for sure he didn't really need the mainstream media.

[Ailsa Chang]

Well, what about the right wing media like Fox News? Like, has his relationship with them changed?

[David Falkenflik]

It's more about their relationship with him. It seems to me that you have all these outlets that are hurtling to catch up to him and stay close by him. You had Fox News pay such a price four years ago when it seemingly backed away from him, announcing Joe Biden had won Arizona on election night, that it hurtled to embrace so many of the lies and falsehoods about election fraud that he and his allies put out there that Fox had to pay $787 million to an election tech company as a defamation settlement. This time, he attacked Fox as insufficiently loyal for just interviewing Vice President Kamala Harris, which was a pretty big get for them. Loyalty, I think, is a key element. Fox has stayed resolutely by his side while tamping down on some of the more extreme claims.

[Ailsa Chang]

Well, it's not new news that Trump doesn't like most journalists. Right. Like he has long villainized journalists. He doesn't talk as much, though, these days about the news media offering up fake news. He talks more about punishing the news media. And I'm just curious so far, what has Trump said that he would do to the press if he were reelected? Go ahead and lay it all out for us, David.

[David Falkenflik]

Right. Well, if you think about one of the key elements of his campaign rhetoric, the idea that I am your retribution against all those who would stand in my but really your way, I think the press is one of the key elements of that. He is looking, or appears to be looking to punish outlets that failed to cover him and his approach in the way that he wants. He suggested that he would make libel laws looser, that is easier for places to successfully sue news outlets for coverage that they felt treated them unfairly. He has threatened to, as you mentioned earlier, throw reporters and editors in jail if they seek to keep confidential sources hidden, something that under the Biden administration, the Justice Department said it would do in almost the smallest fraction of cases. He said that he would punish, you know, big legacy broadcast networks, abc, cbs, NBC, for the way in which they covered him and the way in which they moderated the presidential vice presidential debates. Now, to be fair, broadcasters don't hold licenses regulated by the federal government, but all those stations they own do. And those are profitable pressure points for him to threaten to really come after them. And if you believe, as many do, that he's going to embrace the agenda as set out by this conservative group, the Heritage foundation, what's called Project 2025. He disavowed it, but it's created by a lot of FOL who have served him in the past and have spoken for him in the past. It would go after public broadcasting like PBS and npr, only a modest amount. A couple percent of points of NPR's funds typically comes from federal sources, but our member stations get a lot more. That would be a real hit for a lot of them.

[Ailsa Chang]

And this is a fight that everyone has seen coming. So how do you think the mainstream news media should be or is now gearing up for Trump 2.0?

[David Falkenflik]

Well, there are a few different reactions you're seeing, and some don't want to articulate this or define this as a fight you saw. Separate major American daily newspapers decide not to endorse this year. The Washington Post, perhaps most famously among them. An endorsement was in the works, planned by the editorial page editor, being drafted by some of the writers there, and owner Jeff Bezos essentially killed it and said, we're not going to endorse just days before the election. Bezos has enormous business interests in front of the federal government, and there's concern among people who have criticized him even from inside the Post, to say that he didn't want to antagonize Trump any further than the Post reporting head already done. Meanwhile, Bob Woodward, the legendary Watergate reporter who had been among those to criticize Bezos, nonetheless met with the paper's executive editor and publisher and then went on MSNBC to say they had assured him that the Post intends to do intensive, aggressive accountability reporting anytime it's needed and required of it, but that it's going to avoid cheap shots and a lot of sort of the histrionics and rhetoric that arguably define some of the initial responses to covering Trump when he first got into office. Others are taking a different tack. You have the Guardian and Mother Jones and some of the investigative outlets. They're saying, hey, we're going to be here. We're not owned by billionaires. We don't have interests in front of the federal government. And we're going to be under pressure, but we are going to be here to serve the needs of the public. And then there's a third way. The New York Times. It endorsed Vice President Harris, to be sure, but its leaders, under the direction of A.G. sulzberger, its publisher, said, we are studying what happens in autocratic nations, how a press maintains its independence, how news organizations, while not being part of any oppositional force, are part of the checks and balance in a functioning democratic process. And we need to maintain that. How can we sustain free speech and free liberties under such moments? You're hearing people at the Times plot for that, and now they're going to have to see what they do and what they put into action.

[Ailsa Chang]

That is NPR's David Falkenflick. Thank you so much, David.

[David Falkenflik]

You bet.

[Ailsa Chang]

This episode was produced by Mark Rivers. It was edited by Jeanette woods and Emily Cox. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigun. It's consider this from npr. I'm Ailsa Cheng. Joe Biden's on his way out.

[David Falkenflik]

Donald Trump's on his way back.

[Ailsa Chang]

Want to know what's happening as the presidential transition is underway. The NPR Politics Podcast has you covered.

[David Falkenflik]

With the latest news and analysis.

[Ailsa Chang]

Listen to the NPR Politics Podcast.

[David Falkenflik]

The Code Switch team spent Election Day talking to folks about how the outcome might impact them. It's a time capsule of people's hopes.

[Ailsa Chang]

And fears before they knew the results.

[David Falkenflik]

One way or another, there's a change coming. I wanted to vote for Trump, but I voted for her. Gays for Trump. I cried this morning. I've been crying on and off. I'm terrified. Listen to Code Switch, the podcast about race and identity, from npr.

[Ailsa Chang]

Want to hear this podcast without sponsor breaks?

[David Falkenflik]

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[Ailsa Chang]

This sponsor free through Amazon Music. Or you can also support NPR's vital journalism and get consider this [e-mail] that's plus.NPR.org.