Consider This from NPR: Investigating the Russia Investigations – What's Left to Learn?

Release Date: August 8, 2025

NPR’s Consider This episode delves deep into the multifaceted investigations surrounding Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. Hosted by Ari Shapiro, the episode examines the historical context, the findings of major investigations, the current political landscape, and the implications for American intelligence and national security.

1. Introduction to Russian Interference and Trump's Election

The episode opens by posing a fundamental question: Was Russian interference in the 2016 election the reason Donald Trump won the presidency the first time? This query has persisted throughout Trump's tenure and has been the focal point of numerous investigations.

Mark Warner, Vice Chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, emphasizes the severity of the interference:

“[00:20] Russian intelligence officers who were part of the Russian military launched a concerted attack on our political system.”

2. Overview of Major Investigations

Two primary investigations are highlighted:

• Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s Investigation (2017-2019): Released a report in 2019 stating there was no evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. However, it meticulously documented Russia’s efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential campaign.

• Senate Intelligence Committee Report (2020): A bipartisan effort that confirmed and expanded upon Mueller’s findings, detailing the extent of Russian interference.

Mark Warner comments on the bipartisan nature of these findings:

“[00:46] I will let every American who wants to read the report draw their own conclusions.”

He further elaborates on the unprecedented interactions between Russian agents and Trump-related officials:

“[00:58] Unprecedented level of contacts from Russians and their agents with the Trump campaign and Trump related officials at a level that was unprecedented.”

3. Trump's Dismissal of Russian Interference

Despite the thorough investigations, Donald Trump consistently downplayed the significance of Russian interference. In a 2017 interview with NBC’s Lester Holt, Trump dismissed the allegations:

“[01:21] This Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made up story. It's an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election that they should have won.”

This stance reflects Trump’s broader strategy of delegitimizing the investigations and maintaining his narrative.

4. Renewed Interest in Russian Interference by the Second Trump Administration

The episode shifts focus to recent developments wherein the second Trump administration seeks to re-examine past investigations:

• Tulsi Gabbard’s Actions: As Director of National Intelligence, Gabbard declassified documents alleging that the Obama administration directed the creation of a misleading intelligence community assessment.

  “[01:48] There is irrefutable evidence that detail how President Obama and his national security team directed the creation of an intelligence community assessment that they knew was false.”

• Attorney General Pam Bondi’s Initiative: Bondi has initiated a grand jury investigation into U.S. intelligence concerning Trump and Russia, aiming to uncover new angles or evidence.

5. In-Depth Analysis with Renee DiResta

To unpack these developments, Ari Shapiro interviews Renee DiResta, an Associate Research Professor at Georgetown's McCourt School of Public Policy and a contributor to Lawfare.

a. Types of Russian Interference

DiResta outlines three primary methods of Russian interference:

1. Disinformation Campaigns by the Internet Research Agency (IRA):

   • Utilized fake social media accounts and bots to spread misinformation and manipulate public opinion.

2. Hack and Leak Operations by GRU (Russian Military Intelligence):

   • Targeted entities like the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and the Clinton campaign to obtain and strategically release damaging information.

3. Attempts to Hack Voter Rolls:

   • While there was no evidence of altering vote tallies, Russian actors attempted to breach systems related to voter registration.

She emphasizes that these methods were thoroughly documented by intelligence agencies, including the FBI, CIA, and NSA.

b. Investigations into Interference vs. Collusion

A critical distinction made by DiResta is between Russian interference and collusion:

“[06:32] Russian interference asks the question, how did Russia manipulate the 2016 election?... The question of collusion asks, did the Trump campaign know about it, support it, or work with it in any way?”

She clarifies that even if Russia intended to assist the Trump campaign, without evidence that the campaign was aware or involved, it does not constitute collusion.

c. Claims About Russia Wanting Hillary Clinton to Win

The Trump administration has propagated the notion that Russia favored Hillary Clinton in the 2016 election. DiResta examines this claim:

“[07:53] There is supposedly a collection of shocking emails that exists. Nobody has ever seen them, to be clear.”

She points out that the argument hinges on unverified claims of damaging emails against Clinton, which Russia never released. This has been used to suggest that Russia's tactics inadvertently benefited Trump, although the evidence remains speculative.

d. Impact of Recent Actions on U.S. Intelligence

DiResta warns of the broader implications stemming from actions like declassifying sensitive documents:

“[09:19] It undermines US Intelligence, it exposes those sources, it damages trust with allies who share intelligence with us, and it turns national security into partisan fodder.”

She argues that such moves erode the integrity and effectiveness of U.S. intelligence operations and strain international alliances.

6. Conclusions and Implications

The episode underscores the enduring complexity of the Russia investigations and the challenges posed by political interference in intelligence work. Despite extensive investigations affirming Russian interference without direct collusion, ongoing efforts by the Trump administration to reopen these cases highlight a persistent quest for alternative narratives. Renee DiResta emphasizes the potential risks to national security and intelligence credibility stemming from these renewed investigations.

Ari Shapiro concludes by reflecting on the iterative nature of these investigations and the critical need for maintaining rigorous and independent journalistic standards to uphold democratic institutions.

This comprehensive exploration by Consider This offers listeners a nuanced understanding of the multifaceted investigations into Russian interference, the political dynamics at play, and the broader implications for U.S. intelligence and democracy.