Consider This from NPR: Iran's Nuclear Sites Got Bombed. North Korea? It's Another Story

Release Date: June 28, 2025
Host: Scott Detrow
Contributor: Anthony Kuhn, NPR Correspondent in Seoul

Introduction

In this episode of NPR's "Consider This," host Scott Detrow delves into the complexities of nuclear diplomacy, contrasting the United States' approach to Iran with its interactions with North Korea. Drawing from Anthony Kuhn's on-the-ground experiences in the Korean Peninsula, the discussion highlights the evolving landscape of international relations and the formidable challenges in addressing nuclear proliferation.

Historical Context: Trump and Kim’s 2019 Summit

The episode opens by revisiting the pivotal moment on February 27, 2019, when then-President Donald Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un met in Hanoi, Vietnam. Amidst lingering tensions and past hostilities—where Kim had once derided Trump as a "dotard" and Trump had vowed severe retaliation against North Korea—the two leaders presented a facade of camaraderie.

Anthony Kuhn reflects on the atmosphere during the summit:

"The city was abuzz with motorcades of various government whizzing back and forth. Everybody in Hanoi seemed to be trying to cash in on it."
[00:17]

Despite the hopeful interactions, the summit concluded prematurely without a concrete agreement. Kuhn describes it as:

"It was basically the collapse of diplomacy."
[01:07]

Comparing Nuclear Approaches: Iran vs. North Korea

The conversation shifts to the divergent strategies the U.S. has employed concerning Iran and North Korea's nuclear ambitions. While the Trump administration undertook direct military action against Iran's nuclear facilities, the approach towards North Korea has remained markedly different.

Key Differences Highlighted by Kuhn:

• Nuclear Arsenal Size: North Korea possesses an estimated 50 atomic bombs, a significant increase from the 20-30 bombs during Trump's first term.

[04:12]

• Missile Capabilities: North Korea's missiles can reach not just U.S. military bases in Asia but also the U.S. Homeland, making a preemptive strike highly improbable.

[04:37]

• Diplomatic Relations: Unlike Iran, which had no nuclear arsenal, North Korea's developed capabilities and strategic alliances—particularly with Russia and China—complicate diplomatic efforts.

Kuhn emphasizes that these differences mean that the U.S. must navigate a more precarious and entrenched relationship with North Korea:

"If anything, the message to North Korea was that when they decided to build a nuclear arsenal, that was a wise investment."
[04:38]

Challenges in Covering North Korea

Reporting on North Korea presents unique obstacles due to the regime's stringent control over information and movement. Kuhn shares his insights and experiences, shedding light on the intricacies of journalism in such a closed-off nation.

Strategies for Effective Reporting:

• Utilizing Defectors: Engaging with North Korean defectors provides valuable, albeit not wholly representative, perspectives on everyday life within the country.

[05:25]

• Analyzing State Media: Despite being a tool for propaganda, North Korea's state media offers clues about internal dynamics and governmental stances. Learning to "read between the lines" is crucial.

[05:25]

• Field Observations: Visiting areas like the Demilitarized Zone (DMZ), the Chinese border city of Dandong, and regions in Russia where North Korean laborers reside can offer tangible insights into the nation's reality.

[05:25]

Personal Anecdote: Kuhn recounts his remarkable visit to Pyongyang in 2008 with the New York Philharmonic Orchestra. This cultural exchange revealed commonalities between North and South Koreans, fostering hope for future reunification despite political divides.

"For all the differences and for all the ways in which the two Koreas... they're still both Korean."
[07:14]

Recent Developments: Renewed Attempts at Diplomacy

The discussion returns to contemporary efforts to reinitiate dialogue between the U.S. and North Korea. Recently, President Trump attempted to send another letter to Kim Jong Un, signaling a desire to resume negotiations.

However, this initiative faced immediate rejection:

"North Korean diplomats refused to accept the letters, so they never made it to Kim Jong Un."
[08:47]

Reasons for Kim’s Rejection:

• Enhanced Military Capabilities: With an expanded nuclear arsenal and missile technology, North Korea feels more secure and less incentivized to negotiate.

• Strategic Alliances: North Korea's alliances with Russia and China have strengthened, providing the regime with alternative avenues for support and deterrence.

• Eroded Trust: The historical exchange of 27 personal letters between Trump and Kim ended on a sour note, with Kim expressing frustration over unmet expectations and perceived U.S. disingenuousness. This was further exacerbated when Trump shared these letters publicly with journalist Bob Woodward, undermining confidential diplomatic communications.

"If you do not think of our relationship as a stepping stone that only benefits you, then you would not make me look like an idiot who will only give without getting anything in return."
[09:08]

The Evolution of North Korea’s Stance

Kuhn outlines the transformation in North Korea's geopolitical posture since Trump's first term:

1. Nuclear Proliferation: The growth of North Korea's nuclear arsenal has altered the balance of power and reduced the likelihood of diplomatic concessions.

2. Military Engagements: North Korea's involvement in Russia's conflict in Ukraine signifies a strategic alignment and a commitment to mutual defense treaties.

3. Diplomatic Relations: The deterioration of trust, highlighted by the rejection of Trump’s recent letter, indicates a hardened stance against U.S. overtures.

Advice for Aspiring Journalists Covering Isolated Regimes

Concluding the episode, Kuhn offers guidance for reporters aiming to cover nations like North Korea:

• Engage Directly: Whenever possible, visit the country to gain firsthand experience and insights.

• Understand the Culture: Deep knowledge of the language, history, cuisine, and regional relations is essential.

• Avoid Stereotyping: Strive to present a nuanced and humanized portrayal, steering clear of dehumanizing or caricatured depictions.

• Adapt Reporting Techniques: Utilize available resources like defectors, satellite imagery, and cross-border observations to piece together the broader picture.

"Learn the language, learn the history, eat their food, learn about their relations with their neighbors..."
[13:08]

Conclusion

This episode of "Consider This" underscores the intricate and often fraught nature of nuclear diplomacy, especially in the context of North Korea’s evolving threat landscape. Through Anthony Kuhn's expert analysis and personal experiences, listeners gain a comprehensive understanding of the challenges and considerations that shape U.S. foreign policy and journalistic endeavors in one of the world's most secretive nations.

Produced by: Noah Caldwell
Edited by: Adam Raney
Executive Producer: Sami Yenigun