Podcast Summary: "Is the Trump Foreign Policy Back to the Future?"

Podcast: Consider This from NPR
Date: January 8, 2026
Host: Scott Detrow
Guest: Michael Froman, President of the Council on Foreign Relations

Episode Overview

This episode examines whether President Trump’s second-term foreign policy marks a return to 19th-century American political strategies. Using recent actions—like the intervention in Venezuela and ambitions toward Greenland—as focal points, host Scott Detrow and guest Michael Froman explore the echoes of America’s Gilded Age politics, debates about the rules-based international order, and the power-driven worldview currently shaping US engagement with the world.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Echoes of the 19th Century in Trump Policy

• Opening Context (00:04–02:16):

  • Trump’s "Make America Great Again" slogan lacks clarity on which era it idealizes.
  • Policies reminiscent of the late 1800s are highlighted: high tariffs, industry-government coziness, aggressive territorial expansion.
  • Memorable Parallel: The McKinley Tariff of 1890, historic business-political entanglements (e.g., Credit Mobilier scandal), and the Spanish-American War’s annexations are cited as analogs.
  • AI companies donating to political causes draw comparison to Gilded Age industrialists.

  Quote:

  "Now AI is the billion dollar industry and its leaders are donating money and courting favors with the current administration."
  — Scott Detrow (01:08)

2. Venezuela and Modern Regime Change

• US Military Action in Venezuela (02:40–04:07):

  • The US ousted Venezuelan President Maduro but left much of his government in place.
  • Froman expresses unease at the incongruence between Trump’s prior anti-intervention rhetoric and decisive regime-toppling.
  • Raises point that this mirrors an era where the US would unilaterally use force for its interests.

  Quote:

  "We now have a situation where we've sort of done regime change without at least so far changing the regime."
  — Michael Froman (03:24)

3. The “Rules-Based International Order” vs. “Might Makes Right”

• Examining the US role post-WWII and Today (04:07–06:49):

  • Froman discusses the 70+ year project of US-led global order based on internationally agreed rules.
  • Under Trump, there is open skepticism of this system—asserted by aides like Stephen Miller—shifting toward overt power politics.
  • Froman concedes that power is always a driver, but the shift away from rules undermines system stability.

  Quotes:

  "The argument you hear from Stephen Miller and others in the Trump White House is that's bogus, that that's a veneer that's never been true. And foreign policy is about strength and it's about power and it's about the US seizing what it wants."
  — Scott Detrow (04:27)

  "We have been successful for 80 years in using our power and US leadership to shape a system that all of the other countries bought into, more or less..."
  — Michael Froman (05:56)

4. Greenland and Renewed Expansionism

• US Interest in Greenland (06:49–08:15):

  • Trump’s desire to acquire Greenland is discussed both as personal ambition and as a strategic move (e.g., Arctic security).
  • Froman outlines existing cooperation with Denmark and Greenland but notes the president’s aggressive approach.

  Quote:

  "I think the president is right. We probably do need to engage much more actively with Greenland and Denmark and ensure that we've got the capacity on Greenland to address our Arctic security needs."
  — Michael Froman (08:03)

5. Trump’s Second-Term Foreign Policy: Isolationist or Interventionist?

• Surprises in Trump’s Approach (08:15–09:02):

  • Contrary to expectations of isolationism, Trump’s second term is marked by high international engagement, forceful interventions, and new state-building efforts.
  • New US engagement in Gaza’s post-ceasefire context is briefly referenced.

  Quote:

  "He is clearly not an isolationist. He has been deeply engaged internationally from day one."
  — Michael Froman (08:23)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "We may be living in the 21st century, but President Trump's policies increasingly echo those of the 19th century."
  — Scott Detrow (02:16)

• "No rules based system is perfect in the international legal system. I think if most countries follow most of the rules, most of the time it has been deemed a success."
  — Michael Froman (05:18)

• "There’s even agreement between us as to how we could further build out our cooperation in that area."
  — Michael Froman (08:02)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:04 — Introduction to the theme: "Make America Great Again" and historical parallels
• 00:26–01:52 — Comparisons to 19th-century tariffs, business influence, and territorial expansion
• 02:40–04:07 — Venezuela intervention and regime change debate
• 04:07–06:49 — The rules-based international order and Trump’s challenge to it
• 06:49–08:15 — Greenland, Arctic security, and 21st-century expansionism
• 08:15–09:02 — Assessment of Trump’s international engagement vs. isolationism

Episode Takeaways

• President Trump’s second-term actions reflect a distinct return to power-driven, 19th-century-style dominance rather than post-WWII internationalism.
• Major US foreign policy moves now question established global rules, suggesting a re-embrace of might over multilateralism.
• The application of this attitude to modern contexts—AI, international business, territorial moves—hints at both personal ambition and strategic calculation.
• The Trump administration’s active international role belies pre-term expectations of isolationism.

For full context, listen to the episode on NPR.