Consider This from NPR: Is the U.S. Headed for Autocracy?

Release Date: February 19, 2025

In this thought-provoking episode of NPR's "Consider This," host Scott Detrow engages in a deep conversation with Masha Gessen, a renowned journalist and opinion columnist for The New York Times, to explore the unsettling question: Is the United States on a path toward autocracy? Drawing parallels between Gessen’s experiences in Russia and the current political climate in the U.S., the discussion delves into the mechanisms through which democratic norms may be eroding and the implications for American society.

1. Masha Gessen's Insights from Russia

[00:00] Scott Detrow introduces Gessen by highlighting their firsthand experience with the erosion of democracy in Russia under Vladimir Putin. Gessen recounts the gradual crackdown on activists, journalists, and opposition leaders during the 2000s and early 2010s.

[00:21] Masha Gessen reflects on the initial stages of authoritarianism in Russia:

“It seemed completely absurd when Putin started centering LGBT people as the root of all evil and a threat to Russian sovereignty. Tiny minority, not that visible in Russia.”
(00:21)

Gessen, who is trans and non-binary, initially underestimated the severity of Putin's rhetoric and policies, not realizing the personal threats that would soon force them to flee Russia in 2013.

2. Parallels Between Russia and the Trump Administration

Transitioning to the United States, [00:51] Scott Detrow references Gessen’s recent op-ed where they draw parallels between Russia's descent into autocracy and the early months of President Trump's administration.

An Unnamed Commentator exemplifies the kind of rhetoric Gessen compares to authoritarian tactics:

“It's all under investigation. I understand that. That's why I'm trying to figure out.”
(01:14)

This commentator further illustrates the spread of unfounded conspiracy theories, such as President Trump attributing a plane crash at a Washington airport to diversity policies.

3. The Role of Absurd Proposals in Democratic Erosion

Gessen identifies a concerning trend in the Trump administration's policy proposals, labeling them as "bad ideas" that contribute to undermining democratic norms.

[03:31] Masha Gessen asserts:

“Bad ideas as such, actually do a lot of the work of building autocracy.”
(03:31)

She elaborates that these proposals, though seemingly absurd—such as the U.S. potentially purchasing Greenland or taking over the Gaza Strip—serve to delegitimize the established law-based world order and erode the public’s trust in democratic institutions.

4. Voter Disillusionment and Systemic Issues

Addressing the electoral support for Trump, [05:22] Masha Gessen offers a critical analysis:

“I think that basically the Democratic Party for at least three election cycles, has now insisted that things are fine just the way they are... Americans have said that the way that the rules are written and the way that the system functions doesn't work for them.”
(05:22)

Gessen posits that systemic failures and the Democratic Party's inability to address widespread dissatisfaction have driven voters toward Trump as a means of expressing their frustration, even if it means supporting policies that threaten democratic integrity.

5. Institutional Responses and the Building of Autocracy

The conversation shifts to how various institutions are adapting to Trump's presidency, often altering policies and practices to align with his administration’s agenda.

[07:35] Masha Gessen explains:

“With Trump's second election, we can no longer claim that this is what this country is. And I think that rationally people are settling in for the long haul and making decisions about their organizations that will benefit them or at least keep them safer in the short term. And that's really the problem with this kind of abeyance is that it is reasonable, it is well thought through... When everyone does that, that is exactly how autocracy is built.”
(07:35)

Gessen highlights that while individual institutions may act out of self-preservation and rational decision-making, collectively, these actions facilitate the consolidation of authoritarian power by eroding checks and balances.

6. The Push and Pull of Democracy

Discussing the dynamics of democratic governance, [09:16] Masha Gessen comments on the importance of genuine political opposition:

“If there's no real politics coming from the other side, then we will watch democracy destroy itself, which is one of its fundamental design flaws.”
(09:16)

Gessen underscores that democracy requires active and effective opposition to prevent the unchecked accumulation of power, warning that without it, democratic institutions are vulnerable to self-destruction.

7. Conclusion and Reflections

In wrapping up the discussion, Scott Detrow and Masha Gessen reflect on the precarious state of American democracy. Gessen emphasizes the need for a broader vision and systemic reforms to address the underlying issues that have led to disillusionment and support for authoritarian-leaning policies.

[10:03] Masha Gessen concludes:

“Thank you for having me.”
(10:03)

The episode serves as a compelling analysis of how seemingly outlandish policies and public rhetoric can collectively erode democratic foundations, drawing from historical and contemporary examples to warn of the potential slide toward autocracy in the United States.

Key Takeaways:

• Bad Ideas as Catalysts: Outlandish and unfounded policy proposals can undermine democratic norms and facilitate authoritarianism.
• Voter Disillusionment: Systemic failures and unaddressed public dissatisfaction can drive support for extreme political leaders.
• Institutional Compliance: Rational decisions by institutions to align with authoritarian policies can collectively erode checks and balances.
• Necessity of Opposition: Effective and genuine political opposition is essential to safeguard democracy from self-destruction.

This episode of "Consider This" offers a sobering examination of the fragility of democratic institutions and the subtle ways in which autocratic tendencies can take root within a society. It calls for vigilant and informed citizenry to recognize and counteract these dangers to preserve democratic governance.