Is there anything new to learn from the ‘alien files’?

Summary

Podcast Summary: Consider This from NPR

Episode: Is there anything new to learn from the ‘alien files’?

Date: May 13, 2026
Host: Scott Detrow (A)
Guest: Adam Frank, Astrophysicist at University of Rochester (B)

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Overview

This episode explores the much-anticipated release of government “alien files” related to Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAP)—the updated term for UFOs—and whether these documents offer any genuine new revelations about possible extraterrestrial encounters. Host Scott Detrow is joined by astrophysicist Adam Frank to scrutinize what’s actually contained in these files, the seriousness of official investigations, and what would constitute meaningful evidence or disclosure.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Changing Landscape of UFO Discourse

• UAPs moved from tabloid obscurity to mainstream news in 2023, thanks to congressional hearings and public testimonies by credible witnesses:
  • Navy pilot Ryan Graves described “dark gray or black cubes inside of a clear sphere.” [00:13]
  • Retired Air Force intelligence officer David Grusch alleged the government possessed “crashed craft” and associated “biologics.” [00:54]

Quote:
"Biologics came with some of these recoveries."
— David Grusch, as recounted by Detrow [01:04]

• President Trump ordered the Defense Department to release all files related to extraterrestrials/UFOs, promising potentially sensational content. [01:25]

2. The Real Content of the Newly Released ‘Alien Files’

• Recent DoD reports mostly repeat what is already known:
  • Accounts feature classic UFO phenomena—flying disks, metallic orbs—much of which has long been in the public domain. [03:19]
  • No concrete evidence, just more “fuzzy blob videos or photos and unverifiable personal testimony.” [04:46]

Quote:
"Spaceships. That's all I'm asking for, just one actual stinking spaceship."
— Adam Frank [04:02]

• Host and guest agree: despite high public interest and government action, nothing fundamentally new has emerged.

3. The Scientific Standard—and Skepticism

• Adam Frank points out:
  • Most sightings and Pentagon videos can be explained with mundane causes.
  • Major claims (“alien bodies” and “spacecraft”) from congressional hearings lack verifiable data.
  • Released documents often seem haphazard, with unrelated or irrelevant content included. [06:53]

Quote:
"It's like somebody just typed in 'space' into the government database and then just grabbed a bunch of stuff and threw it in there."
— Adam Frank [06:56]

• Calls out “terrible science” and the importance of hard evidence—i.e., actual material or reproducible scientific analysis—before subscribing to extraordinary conclusions.

4. What Would a Responsible Government Response Look Like?

• Frank insists transparency is good, but the disclosure must extend to verifiable studies or evidence.
• If there were alien ships or bodies, there should be “pages and pages and pages” of peer-reviewed scientific studies to support it. [07:41]
  • Otherwise, these claims remain “just stories.”

Quote:
“Bodies or it didn’t happen.”
— Paraphrased by Scott Detrow, summarizing Frank’s position [08:48]

• Frank recommends reallocating curiosity and resources toward credible scientific projects like NASA’s Habitable Worlds Observatory, which searches for life by studying exoplanets’ atmospheres.

5. The Value of Wonder

• Despite skepticism, Frank emphasizes the persistent human drive to seek mystery in the universe.
  • “All the mystery, all the wonder is there—but it's the stars and it's all the planets we've discovered orbiting those stars.” [09:09]

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• On the lack of new evidence:
  • "It turns out it’s just more of the same fuzzy blob videos or photos and unverifiable personal testimony." — Adam Frank [04:46]
• On government seriousness:
  • “It doesn’t seem actually very serious.” — Adam Frank [06:53]
• On what scientists expect:
  • “If we actually have alien bodies … there must be pages and pages and pages of the results of those scientific studies. So at least show us that. And at some point, if you can’t show us that, then it’s just a story.” — Adam Frank [07:41]
• On humanity’s interest in the cosmos:
  • “There’s more than enough mystery and wonder to go around.” — Adam Frank [09:09]

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Notable Timestamps

• 00:13 — Description of unusual UAPs by Navy pilots.
• 01:04 — Grusch’s “biologics” claim during congressional hearings.
• 03:19 — Synopsis of recently released government files.
• 04:02 — Opening of in-depth interview with Adam Frank.
• 04:46 — Frank explains disappointment with the actual content disclosed.
• 06:53 — Assessment of government’s seriousness and process.
• 07:41 — Frank outlines what meaningful disclosure would look like.
• 08:48 — Closing summary: “Bodies or it didn’t happen.”
• 09:09 — Frank encourages awe in real cosmic discoveries.

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Conclusion

This episode of “Consider This” provides a nuanced take on recent government document releases about UAPs, emphasizing the gap between public expectations and scientific standards for evidence. While the files continue to intrigue, expert insight highlights the ongoing absence of concrete, scientifically robust disclosure—urging a shift toward credible explorations of life beyond Earth, while preserving our sense of cosmic wonder.

Transcript

[A]

It's Consider this where every day we go deep on one big news story. Today, what is in a trove of government files related to unidentified anomalous phenomena. That is the new term for what we used to call UFOs. Now, a few decades ago, flying saucers and UFOs were the sort of thing you would see relegated to the tabloids. But in 2023, that changed. We were primarily seeing dark gray or black cubes inside of a clear sphere.

[B]

I'm sorry, dark gray or black cubes.

[A]

Yes, inside of a clear sphere where the apex the House Subcommittee on National Security, the Border and Foreign affairs, called a hearing on UAPS and invited witnesses like former Navy fighter pilot Ryan Graves, who you heard there being questioned by Maryland Democrat Jamie Raskin. Retired Air Force intelligence officer David Grusch made some pretty explosive allegations about crashed alien spacecraft to South Carolina Republican Nancy Mace. If you believe we have crashed craft stated earlier, do we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft? As I've stated publicly already in my News Nation interview, biologics came with some of these recoveries.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Were they I guess human or non human Biologics?

[B]

Non human.

[A]

And that was the Fast forward to this year. President Trump ordered the Defense Department to start releasing the government's files on alien and extraterrestrial life, anything having to do

[B]

with UFO or related material.

[A]

He teased the release last month at the White house with the Artemis 2 astronauts standing behind him.

[B]

I interviewed some pilots, very solid people, and they said they saw things that you wouldn't believe. So you're going to be reading about it.

[A]

Consider this that first batch of, quote, alien files. It's now out. So is there anything new to learn?

[B]

Foreign.

[A]

I'm Scott Detrow. This message comes from NPR sponsor Carvana.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[C]

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[A]

It's consider this from npr. Accounts of flying disks floating and then disappearing, metallic orbs and a mysterious cylinder tumbling through space near an Apollo spacecraft. These were just some of the details contained in government reports recently released by the Department of Defense. Now, some of this information about unidentified anomalous phenomena, or UAPs, has long been in the public domain in one form or another. But the DoD report coming on President Trump's orders was another step toward the federal government taking the question of UAP more seriously. We're going to talk about all of it with Adam Frank, an astrophysicist at the University of Rochester involved in the search for intelligent life. Welcome to ALL THINGS considered.

[B]

Oh, it's my pleasure.

[A]

So let's start here in your piece for the Atlantic about these so called alien files. Your first line reads spaceships. That's all I'm asking for, just one actual stinking spaceship. Fair to say you were unimpressed by this.

[B]

Yeah, because one of the things that's happened so what I would call the modern era of UFOs, right, when I was a young scientist back in the 80s, you know, UFOs were just tin hat sort of stuff. Nobody took them seriously at all. And then there was that New York Times article in 2017 which said, oh, there is actually a Pentagon program studying this. And then there's been these hearings, these explosive congressional hearings where you've seen these former intelligence agents saying that we actually have, you know, the United States and other countries are routinely capturing crashed spaceships and that we've got alien biologics or non human, I think the term they use is non human biologics. So these are, you know, really extreme claims that people are making. I expected given all that, that this disclosure, wow, we're finally going to get the government disclosing documents. And it turns out it's just more of the same fuzzy blob videos or photos and unverifiable personal testimony.

[A]

And there's been a lot of like, compelling and serious conversation about that in recent years. Why do you think it is that it doesn't get more attention, that it doesn't make more of a mainstream foothold when, when there are videos from the Pentagon showing objects that seem to be moving in very strange ways.

[B]

Well, I'm actually going to push back a little bit on that. I think as a scientist, one of the things we've seen is that there has been an enormous outpouring of sightings and of videos. But the hard fact is that most of these videos can be explained and that most of the claims that are being made about them are unverifiable. And so you've got this mix of genuine interest in what's happening. What are these sightings about? Are they about peer state adversaries and their technological capacities, as well as a conflation of this with are we seeing things from outer space? And as an astrophysicist, I'm, of course deeply interested in things from outer space. But there's always been a deep problem for us as scientists is that the data that we're being shown you can't do anything with. So that's really the mix that's going on here.

[A]

Look, I really appreciate you being the Scully to my molder in this conversation.

[B]

I'm so sorry, man.

[A]

In addition to that, I will say that I was among many people reading this thinking, like, get a load of these Apollo 11 transcripts. To be gently and not so gently reminded that in fact, those transcripts had been released to the public for 50 years. At this point, given that, given the way that President Trump talked about this, saying, like, you know, have fun, or essentially that. Is this a serious exercise by the federal government to you?

[B]

It doesn't seem actually very serious. You know, there's actually. As I was going through the documents, I found it was a report about launch failures on reentry vehicles. It was like, wait, what is this even doing here? It's like somebody just typed in space into the government database and then just grabbed a bunch of stuff and threw it in there. That document had nothing to do with UFOs or UAPs. So this actually doesn't feel very serious. I am all in favor of disclosure, but I'm very skeptical, particularly of the claims made in those congressional hearings. I just see a lot of terrible science happening.

[A]

Given all of that, if it were up to you, what would you like to see the government do next? What do you think the responsible way to move forward and kind of engage in these questions would be the government

[B]

has been involved in studying this for 70 years. So there's a lot of documents, right? There's going to be a lot of documents. And I just think it's great that, okay, release all those documents. If there's Anything in there that actually leads us somewhere. That's what I'd like to see. And I want, you know, if we actually have alien bodies, you know, in a refrigerator in some place, or we have captured alien spaceships, you know, scientists have done huge amounts of studies on them. So at least if you're not going to show me the alien bodies, there must be pages and pages and pages of the results of those scientific studies. So at least show us that. And at some point, if you can't show us that, then it's just a story. These are just stories that have been circulating around forever. And there's much better places to put our time in terms of we're interested in the study of life in the universe. Like, if the government really wants to do something, then it can continue to fund something like NASA's Habitable Worlds Observatory, which we're building, which will be able to see into the atmospheres of distant alien worlds and search for alien life there.

[A]

You heard it from Adam Frank. Bodies or it didn't happen. Adam Frank is an astrophysicist at the University of Rochester. Thank you so much. Even though I'm a little disappointed by the outcome of this conversation, thank you so much for walking us through.

[B]

I'm sorry. I know I'm like, Mr. Bummer. But, you know, but, but, but the thing people, I mean, it's what's beautiful is people have this interest in the night sky. They should keep that. All the mystery, all the wonder is there, but it's the stars and it's all the planets we've discovered orbiting those stars. So there's more than enough mystery and wonder to go around.

[A]

Adam Frank, thank you so much.

[B]

My pleasure.

[A]

This episode was produced by Gabriel Sanchez and Jordan Marie Smith, with audio engineering by Damien Herring. It was edited by Christopher Intagliotta and Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigun. It's consider this from npr. I'm scott detrow.