Summary of "Consider This" Episode: Is This the End of the Rule of Law in America?
Release Date: June 15, 2025
Host: Scott Detrow
Podcast: Consider This from NPR
Introduction
In this compelling episode of NPR's Consider This, host Scott Detrow delves into a critical and timely issue: the potential erosion of the rule of law in America, set against the backdrop of recent political actions by President Donald Trump. The discussion centers around Trump's deployment of federal troops to Los Angeles amid immigration raids and the ensuing legal battles that question the limits of presidential power.
Background: Federal Deployment Amid Protests
The episode begins with a recount of the events that sparked nationwide concern. President Trump responded to protests over immigration raids in Los Angeles by deploying approximately 4,000 National Guard troops and 700 Marines to maintain "law and order."
President Trump (00:42): "If I didn't get involved... we have to make sure there's going to be law and order. You had a disaster happening."
California Governor Gavin Newsom strongly opposed this move, leading to a lawsuit against the Trump administration. The lawsuit alleges that the deployment of federal troops violates federal law and the 10th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
Legal Challenges and Court Rulings
Initial legal actions saw a federal judge rule against Trump's justification for federalizing the National Guard, ordering the troops to return to California's control. However, this decision was swiftly overturned by an appeals court, allowing thousands of National Guard members to remain under federal command for the time being.
Scott Detrow (01:48): "In an initial ruling, a federal judge rejected Trump's rationale... But just hours later, an appeals court put that order on hold."
This legal tug-of-war raises significant questions about the balance of power between the executive branch and the judiciary, and what it means for the division of powers within the U.S. government.
Expert Insight: Judge J. Michael Ludig’s Perspective
A pivotal part of the episode features an in-depth conversation with former federal judge J. Michael Ludig, who has expressed grave concerns about President Trump's actions. Judge Ludig authored a piece in The Atlantic titled "The End of Rule of Law in America," where he argues that Trump's maneuvers represent a direct challenge to constitutional principles.
J. Michael Ludig (05:05): "The question... is whether the riots... rise to the level of the kind of emergency or crisis that would authorize the president to call up the National Guard."
Judge Ludig contends that the current disturbances do not meet the statutory requirements—such as crisis, emergency, invasion, or rebellion—to justify the President's invocation of emergency powers.
J. Michael Ludig (06:05): "In every single one of those instances... there has not been the requisite crisis, emergency, invasion, rebellion."
He further criticizes Trump for consistently pushing the boundaries of presidential authority without legitimate grounds, thereby undermining the rule of law.
Judge Ludig (07:27): "I'm gravely worried about the president's attempted use of powers, which he does not have, even arguably have."
The Erosion of Constitutional Norms
The discussion highlights a troubling pattern where President Trump allegedly disregards court orders and undermines judicial decisions, effectively assuming powers that are not constitutionally his to wield.
J. Michael Ludig (08:18): "This president... is defying the Constitution and the laws of the United States every single day."
This defiance not only challenges specific legal rulings but also poses a broader threat to American democracy by signaling a potential end to the rule of law.
Potential Remedies and Future Outlook
When asked about possible solutions, Judge Ludig emphasizes that the only effective remedy is for the President to cease these unconstitutional actions.
J. Michael Ludig (09:29): "The only thing... that can end this war on the federal courts and the rule of law in America is for the President of the United States to stand down."
However, he expresses pessimism about the likelihood of such a resolution under the current administration.
Conclusion
This episode of Consider This serves as a sobering analysis of the current state of American governance, highlighting the fragility of the rule of law in the face of executive overreach. Through expert testimony and a detailed examination of recent events, Scott Detrow effectively underscores the profound implications these developments hold for the future of democracy in the United States.
As the legal battles continue and the National Guard remains under federal control, the nation watches closely, understanding that the outcomes could redefine the boundaries of presidential power and the enduring strength of constitutional safeguards.
Notable Quotes with Timestamps:
- President Trump (00:42): "If I didn't get involved... we have to make sure there's going to be law and order. You had a disaster happening."
- Scott Detrow (01:48): "In an initial ruling, a federal judge rejected Trump's rationale... But just hours later, an appeals court put that order on hold."
- J. Michael Ludig (05:05): "The question... is whether the riots... rise to the level of the kind of emergency or crisis that would authorize the president to call up the National Guard."
- J. Michael Ludig (06:05): "In every single one of those instances... there has not been the requisite crisis, emergency, invasion, rebellion."
- J. Michael Ludig (07:27): "I'm gravely worried about the president's attempted use of powers, which he does not have, even arguably have."
- J. Michael Ludig (08:18): "This president... is defying the Constitution and the laws of the United States every single day."
- J. Michael Ludig (09:29): "The only thing... that can end this war on the federal courts and the rule of law in America is for the President of the United States to stand down."
This detailed summary captures the essence of the episode, providing listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the key discussions and insights surrounding the critical issue of presidential power and the rule of law in America.