Is Trump's defense secretary nominee qualified?

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Is Trump's Defense Secretary Nominee Qualified?" – Consider This from NPR

Release Date: November 19, 2024
Host: Mary Louise Kelly
Duration: Approximately 9 minutes and 30 seconds

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Introduction

In this episode of NPR's Consider This, host Mary Louise Kelly delves into the qualifications of President Donald Trump's recent nominee for Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth. The discussion navigates through Trump's historical relationship with the military, the credentials of the current nominee, and insights from former Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel on the potential implications of this appointment.

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Trump’s Historical Relationship with the Military

Mary Louise Kelly begins by reflecting on Donald Trump's tenure as president, highlighting his embrace of the role of commander in chief. She notes Trump's frequent references to his military leaders, dubbing them "my generals," and appointing individuals from both active and retired service positions.

Mary Louise Kelly [00:00]: "One of the duties Donald Trump clearly relished his first time around as president was that of commander in chief."

Despite Trump's praise, tensions existed between his administration and military leadership, particularly regarding the military's nonpartisan role.

Mary Louise Kelly [00:26]: "Despite the praise, Trump was often frustrated by a military leadership that wanted to preserve its nonpartisan role in American society."

A notable instance illustrating this tension was Trump's 2020 threat to deploy troops amid civil unrest following George Floyd's murder, a move countered by then-Defense Secretary Mark Esper.

Donald Trump [00:43]: "If a city or state refuses to take the actions that are necessary to defend the life and property of their residents, then I will deploy the United States military and quickly solve the problem for them."

Mark Esper [01:02]: "The option to use active duty forces in a law enforcement role should only be used as a matter of last resort and only in the most urgent and dire of situations. We are not in one of those situations."

Over time, Trump's rhetoric towards military leaders became more critical, with former Chief of Staff John Kelly labeling him as authoritarian.

John Kelly [01:35]: "He's certainly an authoritarian, admires people who are dictators. He has said that. So he certainly falls into the general definition of fascist for sure."

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Introducing Pete Hegseth: The Nominee

Fast forward four years, and Trump shifts his stance, now nominating Pete Hegseth, a Fox News host and Army National Guard veteran, as Defense Secretary. However, questions arise regarding Hegseth's suitability for the role given his lack of extensive national security leadership experience.

Mary Louise Kelly [01:53]: "Pete Hegseth is about to oversee a Defense department with an $800 billion budget and millions of service members. Is he qualified for the job?"

To provide context, Kelly interviews Chuck Hagel, former Defense Secretary and Republican Senator from Nebraska, who discusses the complexities of leading the Department of Defense.

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Insights from Chuck Hagel

Responsibilities of the Defense Secretary

Chuck Hagel outlines the vast scope of the Defense Secretary's responsibilities, emphasizing the need for leadership experience in both government and the private sector.

Chuck Hagel [03:18]: "I led it. I didn't run it, I led it. And I think that's important because you have to work with and listen to so many different leaders within the institution."

He underscores the demanding nature of the role, citing his own experience of managing numerous international trips and handling unexpected challenges daily.

Chuck Hagel [04:08]: "Those of us who've had the privilege of leading the Pentagon have never had an experience quite like that. And really nobody has."

Qualification Concerns for Pete Hegseth

Addressing concerns about Hegseth's qualifications, Hagel acknowledges the lack of his extensive experience compared to historical Defense Secretaries.

Chuck Hagel [05:03]: "I think that is an issue and I think the Senate confirmation process will bring that up. I mean, the confirmation process of these big jobs is so critically important."

Political Independence and Ethics in the Military

Hagel expresses deep concerns about the potential politicization of the military under Trump's administration, particularly regarding Hegseth's stance on evaluating and potentially firing senior military officers.

Chuck Hagel [05:49]: "If the military is ever politicized in any way, and we're seeing some indications from this incoming administration that it may be..."

He cites specific remarks that trigger his concern, such as statements opposing women in combat roles.

Chuck Hagel [06:41]: "For example, women should not be in combat. You know, we passed that marker a long time ago, this issue of diversity in the military."

Implications of a Politicized Military

Hagel warns that politicizing the military could lead to widespread resignations among officers, diminishing the institution's strength and reliability.

Chuck Hagel [07:58]: "Oh, officers resigning. When you start firing people from the outside, you'll have officers and senior enlisted resignation."

He emphasizes that such actions would erode global perceptions of the U.S. military's commitment and effectiveness.

Chuck Hagel [08:35]: "Our adversaries will see that... We are in for a lot of trouble."

Historical Context of Military Decision-Making

Hagel clarifies that strategic military decisions, such as involvement in prolonged conflicts like Iraq and Afghanistan, are driven by political leadership rather than the military itself.

Chuck Hagel [08:53]: "Well, that doesn't come from the military. That comes from the political leadership of our country."

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Conclusion and Forward Look

Mary Louise Kelly wraps up the discussion by highlighting the critical nature of the Defense Secretary role and the potential ramifications of Trump's nomination of Pete Hegseth. With insights from Chuck Hagel, the episode underscores the importance of experience, political neutrality, and ethical leadership in safeguarding the integrity and effectiveness of the U.S. military.

Mary Louise Kelly [09:20]: "Secretary, thank you."

Chuck Hagel [09:26]: "Thank you very much."

The episode concludes with acknowledgments to the production team, reinforcing the episode's focus on providing in-depth analysis of pivotal national issues.

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Key Takeaways

• Trump's Military Relations: Historically characterized by praise but marred by tensions over military nonpartisanship and leadership critiques.

• Pete Hegseth's Nomination: Raises questions regarding extensive leadership experience required for managing the Department of Defense's vast responsibilities.

• Chuck Hagel's Concerns: Highlights risks of politicizing the military, emphasizing the need for experienced, ethically grounded leadership to maintain military effectiveness and global standing.

• Future Implications: Potential shifts in military cohesion and global perceptions if the nominee's lack of experience and possible politicization influence the Department of Defense's operations.

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This episode of Consider This provides a comprehensive examination of the qualifications of Trump's Defense Secretary nominee, offering valuable perspectives on the intersection of military leadership and political influence.

Transcript

[Mary Louise Kelly]

One of the duties Donald Trump clearly relished his first time around as president was that of commander in chief. He regularly referred to, quote, my generals, meaning both his officers in the service, my generals and my military, and the retired officers. He appointed two top positions, my generals.

[Donald Trump]

Those generals are going to keep us so safe. They're going to have a lot of problems. The other side.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Despite the praise, Trump was often frustrated by a military leadership that wanted to preserve preserve its nonpartisan role in American society. Take the summer of 2020, when he threatened to send troops into the streets in response to the protests after the murder of George Floyd.

[Donald Trump]

If a city or state refuses to take the actions that are necessary to defend the life and property of their residents, then I will deploy the United States military and quickly solve the problem for them.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

A few days later, his defense secretary, Mark Esper, said the opposite.

[Mark Esper]

The option to use active duty forces in a law enforcement role should only be used as a matter of last resort and only in the most urgent and dire of situations. We are not in one of those situations.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Now, four years later, Trump no longer boasts about his generals.

[Donald Trump]

These generals that aren't even generals as far as I was concerned. What a stupid group of people they were.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Many of them have since criticized his leadership. Some used the word fascist, like his former chief of staff, retired Marine General John Kelly, speaking to the New York Times.

[John Kelly]

He's certainly an authoritarian, admires people who are dictators. He has said that. So he certainly falls into the general definition of fascist for sure.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

This time around, Trump has picked a defense secretary who has pushed for a major shakeup of military leadership. Pete Hegseth is a Fox News host and Army National Guard veteran. What he doesn't have national security leadership experience? Consider this. Pete Hegseth is about to oversee a Defense department with an $800 billion budget and millions of service members. Is he qualified for the job? From npr, I'm Mary Louise Kelly. It's Consider this from npr. What does it take to run the Department of Defense, one of the biggest, most complex entities in the US Government? An institution that, as our next guest notes, has its own judicial code, its own legal system, its own health care system? Well, Chuck Hagel ran that institution. He served as secretary of Defense from 2013 to 2015. Before that, he served a dozen years in the US Senate as a Republican senator from Nebraska. Secretary Hagel, great to speak with you again.

[Chuck Hagel]

Oh, thank you.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

I want to start by letting you give us some sense of the span of things that would cross your desk as you tried to run it. The Defense Department.

[Chuck Hagel]

Well, the way I explain that job, I led it. I didn't run it, I led it. And I think that's important because you have to work with and listen to so many different leaders within the institution. I mean, starting with the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and then each of the chiefs of the, of the services. You've got the White House. You work with all the institutions in government. It's a daily, early in the morning to late at night effort, unexpected. A lot of unexpected things come across your desk. You're around the world. You're, you know, I think in the two years I was secretary, I took around 27 international trips.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Fair to say you are not describing an entry level management job.

[Chuck Hagel]

No, but, you know, those of us who've had the privilege of leading the Pentagon have never had an experience quite like that. And really nobody has. But most of us who have led it have had some experience leading institutions in government and in the private sector.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

So I do want to turn you to the current moment and to President elect Trump's pick to lead the Pentagon. He is a Fox News host. He's an army veteran, National Guard. He has never run a big organization. Our Pentagon correspondent, Tom Bowman, who's covered the Defense Department for many years, went back over the biographies of defense secretaries and secretaries of war going back to the beginning of the Republic. He says, and I'm quoting without a doubt, Hedgeh has the least experience. What questions does that raise?

[Chuck Hagel]

I think that is an issue and I think the Senate confirmation process will bring that up. I mean, the confirmation process of these big jobs is so critically important. I think, though, it's more than just experience. I mean, it's the complete Persona of who you are and what you bring to the job.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

So you wrote an essay for the New York Times last week and the headline was why I'm Worried about Our Military. You write, political independence and ethics are the bedrock of our military today. I'm concerned that both are in danger. Secretary Hagel, why?

[Chuck Hagel]

If the military is ever politicized in any way, and we're seeing some indications from this incoming administration that it may be, for example, the warriors group, this group that President elect Trump has talked about evaluating generals and admirals making decisions, whether those people are qualified to lead the military or not, or if they've made mistakes and then recommending to the president that he fire them, that's politicizing the military. In the things that Mr. Hague says, said about the military, that does concern me in every way. Because if you politicize the military, you politicize.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

May I ask what remarks are giving you pause?

[Chuck Hagel]

Yes. For example, women should not be in combat. You know, we passed that marker a long time ago, this issue of diversity in the military.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Just to put a point on this, Trump's nominee, he has suggested he would look to remove senior officers that he sees as too woke. He has included the current chairman of the Joint Chiefs in that. My question to you, can he do that? Just for people who don't follow this closely, the chairman of the Joint Chief serves a four year term. The current chair, CQ Brown, is only one year in.

[Chuck Hagel]

Yes. Well, the President of the United States has the authority to fire any federal employee. He can do that. And this is another example of what I'm talking about. When you start talking about, well, firing the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff whose record is as impressive as any record we've seen. When you talk about firing him because of so called woke. Well, what do you mean by that? That's what's so dangerous here. And that's why I'm so concerned. If in fact this administration follows through on these things, then we're in for a lot of trouble.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

What? When you say we could be in for a lot of trouble. Trouble like what? What does that mean?

[Chuck Hagel]

Oh, officers resigning. When you start firing people from the outside, you'll have officers and senior enlisted resignation. You will lose the quality of the people who now serve. Our adversaries will see that. Our allies will see that. They will take from that a weakening of our military, a weakening of our military leadership, a weakening of our commitment by our military to a purpose much larger than their own self interest. And that's the United States of America.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Security to people who might look at the Defense Department and say, hey, maybe this institution is due for a shakeup. This is a military that fought two long, really expensive wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. As I don't need to tell you where objectives were not always clearly defined.

[Chuck Hagel]

Well, that doesn't come from the military. That comes from the political leadership of our country. It wasn't the military. Our military serves the President as the leader and Commander in chief of this country with the acquiescence and the support of the Congress and the American people. But the military doesn't make that decision.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Former Defense Secretary and former Republican Senator Chuck Hagel. Secretary, thank you.

[Chuck Hagel]

Thank you very much.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

This episode was produced by Connor Donovan. It was edited by Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sammy Yinigun. It's consider this from npr. I'm Mary Louise Kelly.