Is Trump's immigration bet working?

Summary

Summary of NPR’s Consider This Episode: "Is Trump's Immigration Bet Working?"

Release Date: June 11, 2025
Host: Mary Louise Kelly
Title: Is Trump's Immigration Bet Working?

In this episode of NPR’s Consider This, host Mary Louise Kelly delves into the contentious and highly debated immigration policies under President Donald Trump, particularly focusing on the recent events in Los Angeles. The discussion encompasses the administration’s strategies, the responses from California’s leadership, and expert analysis on the effectiveness and repercussions of these measures.

Trump's Enforcement of Immigration Laws

The episode begins with a statement from White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt, emphasizing the administration’s commitment to carrying out what she describes as "the largest mass deportation campaign in American history" (00:07). Levitt asserts that "left wing riots will not deter him in that effort" (00:07), highlighting the administration’s determination to enforce stringent immigration laws despite public unrest.

Mary Louise Kelly notes that recent polls indicate a significant portion of Americans trust the Republican Party more to handle immigration. A CBS poll cited in the episode reveals that 54% of respondents approve of Trump’s deportation policies (00:16). However, Kelly points out that Trump is taking a substantial risk by escalating his immigration enforcement, including the mobilization of National Guard and active-duty troops in Los Angeles—moves that local authorities deemed unnecessary.

Governor Newsom's Opposition

California Governor Gavin Newsom offers a strong counter-narrative to the federal administration’s actions. In a primetime address, Newsom criticizes the deployment of over 700 active U.S. Marines, stating, “These are the men and women trained for foreign combat, not domestic law enforcement. We honor their service, we honor their bravery. But we do not want our streets militarized by our own armed forces” (00:48).

Governor Newsom further accuses the Trump administration of targeting innocent civilians, including a U.S. citizen who was nine months pregnant and a four-year-old girl, leading to family separations and community trauma (01:21). He condemns the federal actions as “unsafe and illegal” and argues that the administration’s policies are "traumatizing our communities" rather than protecting them (01:47).

Impact on Communities and Law Enforcement

The heavy-handed approach by the Trump administration has sparked significant tension within Los Angeles. Governor Newsom highlights instances of non-criminal individuals being swept up in immigration raids, causing distress and fear among residents. This has led to a broader debate about the balance between law enforcement and community safety.

Mary Louise Kelly introduces the segment by stating, “Trump is doubling down in Los Angeles,” setting the stage for an in-depth analysis of the situation’s effectiveness and broader implications.

Expert Analysis: Simon Hankinson of the Heritage Foundation

To provide a conservative perspective on the immigration enforcement in Los Angeles, Mary Louise Kelly interviews Simon Hankinson, a senior research fellow at the Heritage Foundation’s Border Security and Immigration Center. Hankinson offers a nuanced view of the current situation:

• Effectiveness of Enforcement: Hankinson suggests that the increased enforcement is "going well on the whole" (05:03). He believes that the Trump administration’s actions were predictable responses to years of neglected immigration laws, which inevitably led to public demonstrations and unrest in major cities like Los Angeles (03:47).

• Political Obstacles: He acknowledges that the administration faces political resistance from states like California, which complicates the enforcement process. However, Hankinson defends the use of active-duty military personnel, stating, “I think it's justified when you have a threat to federal property... and local authorities are unwilling to keep the peace and protect lives” (05:56).

• Comparisons to Previous Protests: Referencing the 2020 protests following George Floyd’s death, Hankinson draws parallels to emphasize that federal intervention can prevent similar chaos. He argues that without a federal presence, local authorities might be less proactive in enforcing laws, potentially leading to more extensive property damage and unrest (06:38).

• Strategic vs. Tactical Victories: Hankinson distinguishes between tactical and strategic victories. A tactical victory would involve preventing riots and maintaining order without extensive property damage, while a strategic victory entails the effective enforcement of immigration laws without public dissent (07:08). He posits that the current efforts in Los Angeles demonstrate both types of victories by curbing large-scale unrest and reinforcing federal immigration policies.

Community and Law Enforcement Reactions

Local law enforcement in Los Angeles has reported over 200 arrests and the implementation of curfews in an attempt to mitigate unrest. However, Governor Newsom remains critical, emphasizing that the federal administration’s actions are more about political posturing than genuine community safety.

Simon Hankinson counters by suggesting that the presence of federal troops has led to quicker crackdowns and more effective law enforcement, preventing the escalation of protests into violent confrontations (06:38).

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a reflection on the multifaceted impact of Trump’s immigration policies in Los Angeles. While the administration claims success in enforcing immigration laws and preventing unrest, critics like Governor Newsom highlight the adverse effects on innocent communities and the militarization of local streets. Expert analysis from Simon Hankinson suggests that, despite political obstacles, the federal government’s actions have been effective in maintaining order and advancing immigration enforcement objectives.

Mary Louise Kelly wraps up the discussion by acknowledging the complexity of the issue and the high stakes of Trump’s immigration strategies, leaving listeners to ponder whether this bold bet will ultimately pay off for the administration and the nation.

Notable Quotes

• Mary Louise Kelly (00:00): “The White House message on what's happening in Los Angeles is simple. This is what President Trump was elected to do.”

• Caroline Levitt (00:07): “Left wing riots will not deter him in that effort.”

• Gavin Newsom (00:48): “We do not want our streets militarized by our own armed forces.”

• Simon Hankinson (05:56): “I think it's justified when you have a threat to federal property.”

• Gavin Newsom (01:47): “Donald Trump's government isn't protecting our communities. They're traumatizing our communities.”

This comprehensive examination presented in Consider This offers listeners a thorough understanding of the ongoing immigration debate, illuminating the perspectives of both federal authorities and state leaders, alongside expert analysis on the broader implications for American society.

Transcript

[Mary Louise Kelly]

The White House message on what's happening in Los Angeles is simple. This is what President Trump was elected to do.

[Caroline Levitt]

President Trump promised to carry out the largest mass deportation campaign in American history. And left wing riots will not deter him in that effort.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

That is White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt on Wednesday. It is true that polls have found people trust the Republican Party more to handle immigration. And a CBS poll taken last week found 54% approve of Trump's deportation policies. But Trump is making a big bet on how far Americans want him to go. He mobilized National Guard and active duty troops that the mayor and governor say they don't need. Here's California Governor Gavin Newsom in a primetime address Tuesday.

[Gavin Newsom]

He deployed more than 700 active U.S. marines. These are the men and women trained for foreign combat, not domestic law enforcement. We honor their service, we honor their bravery. But we do not want our streets militarized by our own armed forces.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

The administration says its immigration efforts are focused on criminals. And Press Secretary Levitt rattled off rap sheets of some, quote, illegal monsters apprehended in Los Angeles. But Governor Newsom highlighted other people swept.

[Simon Hankinson]

Up in workplace raids.

[Gavin Newsom]

A US Citizen nine months pregnant was arrested. A four year old girl taken, families separated, friends quite literally disappearing.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Newsom called the administration's actions unsafe and illegal.

[Gavin Newsom]

Donald Trump's government isn't protecting our communities. They're traumatizing our communities. And that seems to be the entire point.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Consider this. Trump is doubling down in Los Angeles. We'll hear from a conservative immigration analyst who thinks it'll work. From npr, I'm Mary Louise Kelly.

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[Mary Louise Kelly]

It'S consider this from NPR. For insight into the conservative strategy around immigration, we called Simon Hankinson.

[Simon Hankinson]

He's a senior research fellow in the.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Border Security and Immigration center at the Heritage Foundation. Your top line assessment of the situation.

[Simon Hankinson]

As it stands in la, and I'll ask that more colloquially, if I bumped into you tonight at a dinner party and asked, hey, I've been away, what's going on in la, how would you answer?

Well, business as usual. I think it was predictable that increased enforcement or any enforcement of immigration law in the interior after four years of basically ignoring the law would have an impact on major cities. And sooner or later there were going to be demonstrations. There was going to be something like the May 2020, you know, riots, demonstrations, whatever you want to call them, public displays of unhappiness. And Los Angeles, you're talking about people.

In the streets after the George Floyd situation.

Yes, exactly.

I guess my question, just to jump in, if I were again asking you what's happening in LA right now, is it going in your view, is it going well, is it going poorly? Anything surprising you?

Unfortunately, I'm not surprised. I think the enforcement is going well on the whole. But in California, obviously, it's hit a bit of a political obstacle. What we're seeing is the city of Los Angeles and the state of California resisting federal efforts to enforce immigration law. And we're not talking about presidential directives here, executive orders, we're talking about immigration law passed by Congress, bipartisan law signed by presidents, Democrat as well as Republican.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

So you've started to answer this, but.

[Simon Hankinson]

I'll just put it too directly to those who argue, look, this is the Trump administration who is now claiming credit for averting a crisis, for tamping down violence, but this perhaps a crisis of the administration's own making. There weren't any protests in LA until ICE agents went in. What do you say?

Well, I guess if you take that line of reasoning, then what you're saying is the federal government cannot enforce immigration law and if they do, the prices, there'll be violence in the street. You know, that's sort of an extortion really, by a state, a nullification of federal law. And I do understand the president is he's making a stand here because he can probably see that this will happen in other cities and other states.

The president has unusual steps in la, and I want to ask you specifically about sending active duty military over the objections of state and local leaders. In your view, is that justified?

I think it's justified when you have A threat to federal property. And when you have local authorities that are unwilling to keep the peace and to protect lives. We saw in Portland in 2020, a federal building was taken over. We saw federal property damaged. We saw a lot of people injured and a couple billion dollars worth of property damage. There's already been some looting and some property damage in Los Angeles. And I think that's something that the administration really wants to avoid this time.

And I'll note that we're seeing reports of fewer clashes Tuesday night. A curfew has kicked in. 200 plus people were arrested. That's LAPD statistics. Local law enforcement says, we've got this, we can handle it.

Well, maybe they say that now, but what would they have said had there been no federal response whatsoever? We saw in 2020, seen at other periods, local officials essentially letting these things burn out. You know, let's just let them burn some cars and trash some buildings and then we'll go in afterwards. And this time it died down much quicker. And I think the threat, the real threat that there would be an active federal presence was what caused local authorities to crack down earlier than they would, for example, with the curfew that Mayor Bass put on.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

I mean, I guess if the goal.

[Simon Hankinson]

Is law and order, if the goal is avoiding ending chaos, I suppose we should note that protests have spread to cities across the country. We're seeing reports from Seattle, from Dallas, from Chicago, from Boston. So what counts as victory here, I.

Think tactically victory is that the riots or the demonstrations rather don't get out of control, that people are allowed to demonstrate peacefully, they're allowed to express their opinions, but that we don't have wide scale looting, property damage and, you know, the ruining of lives in generally poor and underprivileged or, you know, business parts of our major cities. That would be a tactical victory. The strategic victory would be that we once again go back to enforcing our immigration law and not ignoring it.

Simon Hankinson of the conservative think tank.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

The Heritage foundation, thanks so much for your time.

[Simon Hankinson]

Thank you, Mary Louise.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

This episode was produced by Gabriel Sanchez and Connor Donovan with engineering by Becky Brown. It was edited by Sarah Handel and Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigun. It's consider this from npr.

[Simon Hankinson]

I'm Mary Louise Kelly.

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