Justice Anthony Kennedy's book is not boring

Summary

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Consider This from NPR

Episode: Justice Anthony Kennedy's book is not boring
Date: October 13, 2025
Host: Andrew Limbaugh
Guest: Justice Anthony Kennedy
Reported by: Nina Totenberg

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on former Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy and his candid reflections on his life and career, sparked by the release of his new memoir, Life, Law and Liberty. NPR’s veteran Supreme Court correspondent Nina Totenberg interviews Kennedy, discussing pivotal court decisions, the growing threat of partisanship, the evolution of constitutional interpretation, and personal stories from Kennedy’s tenure, including his sometimes fraught relationships with other justices. The episode highlights how Kennedy’s moderate, often pivotal stance shaped modern American law and reveals rarely-shared glimpses into the institutional and personal dynamics at the top of the judiciary.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Anecdotes from the Bench

• The Red Phone Incident
  • Kennedy recalls receiving persistent calls from an Ohio prison inmate who managed to get the direct emergency line to his chambers. Rather than being disturbed, Kennedy welcomed the feedback:
    • Justice Kennedy (00:21): "So I had the prisoner on the red phone telling me how well I was doing or how poorly I was doing... I said, well, no, leave it."
  • This story sets a tone of humility and accessibility unusual for a Supreme Court Justice.

2. Kennedy’s Judicial Legacy

• Pivotal Vote and Notable Opinions
  • Appointed by President Reagan, Kennedy often sided with the conservatives but was renowned as the “swing vote” on the Court, influencing landmark issues like free speech, abortion, and especially LGBTQ rights.
  • His authorship of the majority opinion in Obergefell v. Hodges (2015), legalizing same-sex marriage nationwide, stands out as a major legacy.
  • Quote Highlight (05:10):
    • Justice Kennedy, reading from his opinion:
      “No union is more profound than marriage, for it embodies the highest ideals of love, fidelity, devotion, sacrifice and family... They ask for equal dignity in the eyes of the law. The Constitution grants them that right.”
  • Kennedy’s consideration for the real-world impact on children of gay parents helped influence his decision:
    • (06:06): "How many children? There were hundreds of thousands of children of gay parents this was eye opening for me, and it was very important."

3. Warnings on Partisanship and Civility

• Kennedy expresses grave concerns about the state of public and governmental discourse, even on the Supreme Court itself:
  • Justice Kennedy (04:17):
    "My concern is that the Court, in its own opinions, in the way we talk about those who disagree with us, has to moderate and become much more respectful."
  • He warns that:
    • (01:41 & 03:50): "Democracy is not guaranteed to survive."
    • (03:50): "'Reasoned, thoughtful, rational, respectful discourse has been replaced by antagonistic, confrontational conversation...'"

4. Approach to Constitutional Interpretation

• Kennedy distances himself from originalism, arguing the Constitution’s framers intended its principles to evolve:
  • (07:18):

    "The nature of injustice is that we may not always see it in our own times. The generations that wrote and ratified the Bill of rights and the 14th amendment did not presume to know the extent of freedom in all of its dimensions. And so they entrusted to future generations a charter protecting the right of all persons to enjoy liberty as we learn its meaning."

• He deliberately counters the prevailing trend among the current Court majority, composed largely of originalists—including his own former law clerks.

5. Personal Dynamics: The Kennedy-Scalia Rift and Reconciliation

• Kennedy and Justice Antonin Scalia’s relationship was severely strained by their positions in the same-sex marriage case, culminating in Scalia’s famously blistering dissent.
  • (08:44) Justice Kennedy recounts:

    "He said, the language used in my dissent was intemperate and wrong, and I want to apologize. And I said, nothing is more important to me than our own friendship. ... And we weren't hugging people, but we gave each other a hug."

  • Scalia died shortly after their reconciliation—a poignant reminder, as Kennedy writes, to renew friendships before it’s too late:
    • (09:14): “If friendships are slipping away, we must renew them soon, lest times not permit us to celebrate them for long.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Timestamp | Speaker & Quote | |-----------|---------------------------| | 00:21 | Justice Kennedy: “So I had the prisoner on the red phone telling me how well I was doing or how poorly I was doing, and the police heard about it. They immediately wanted to change it. I said, well, no, leave it.” | | 01:41 | Justice Kennedy: “Democracy is not guaranteed to survive.” | | 03:50 | Justice Kennedy: “Reasoned, thoughtful, rational, respectful discourse has been replaced by antagonistic, confrontational conversation. And I'm very worried about it. Democracy is not guaranteed to survive.” | | 04:17 | Justice Kennedy: “My concern is that the Court, in its own opinions, in the way we talk about those who disagree with us, has to moderate and become much more respectful.” | | 05:10 | Justice Kennedy (reading from Obergefell opinion): “No union is more profound than marriage, for it embodies the highest ideals of love, fidelity, devotion, sacrifice and family... They ask for equal dignity in the eyes of the law. The Constitution grants them that right.” | | 06:06 | Justice Kennedy: “There were hundreds of thousands of children of gay parents this was eye opening for me, and it was very important.” | | 07:18 | Justice Kennedy: “The nature of injustice is that we may not always see it in our own times. ... They entrusted to future generations a charter protecting the right of all persons to enjoy liberty as we learn its meaning.” | | 08:44 | Justice Kennedy: “He said, the language used in my dissent was intemperate and wrong, and I want to apologize. And I said, nothing is more important to me than our own friendship. ... And we weren't hugging people, but we gave each other a hug.” | | 09:14 | Justice Kennedy (on Scalia): “If friendships are slipping away, we must renew them soon, lest times not permit us to celebrate them for long.” |

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• 00:00-00:34 – The story of the red phone and Kennedy's approachability
• 00:53-01:41 – Kennedy’s pivotal votes and enduring influence
• 03:26-04:11 – Kennedy shares concerns about erosion of civility and partisanship on the Court
• 05:10-06:20 – Excerpt from Obergefell v. Hodges and Kennedy’s reasoning
• 07:18-07:44 – Kennedy’s critique of originalism and evolving liberty
• 08:44-09:14 – Reconciliation with Justice Scalia and the importance of friendship
• 09:14-09:32 – Reflections on loss and legacy

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Tone and Style

The episode is reflective, thoughtful, and occasionally poignant, matching Kennedy’s measured, introspective manner. Totenberg’s reporting combines clarity, historical context, and personal insight, while Kennedy’s own words offer humility, wisdom, and a plea for renewed civility—both in the judiciary and American society at large.

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Summary Prepared For: Listeners interested in the Supreme Court, civic discourse, and American legal history; those curious about behind-the-scenes court dynamics; and anyone seeking insights into the personal and professional life of a pivotal justice during transformative years.

Transcript

[Andrew Limbaugh]

When Anthony Kennedy was a Supreme Court justice, there was a red emergency phone in his chambers that never rang. Then one day it did. On the end of the line was a state prisoner in Ohio who'd somehow gotten this number and was calling to tell Kennedy what he thought of a recent opinion. After that, he kept calling.

[Justice Anthony Kennedy]

So I had the prisoner on the red phone telling me how well I was doing or how poorly I was doing, and the police heard about it. They immediately wanted to change it. I said, well, no, leave it.

[Andrew Limbaugh]

Kennedy said. He sort of liked the occasional call. That's the thing about being a Supreme Court justice. Every American, including an inmate in Ohio, is bound by your opinions. And Kennedy wrote some big ones. He was appointed by President Reagan and most often voted with conservatives.

[Justice Anthony Kennedy]

I think the Supreme Court decisions today are a big win for the First Amendment and a step in the right direction.

[Andrew Limbaugh]

That's then House Republican leader John Boehner praising Kennedy's decision in Citizens United in 2010. It opened the door to vast corporate spending. On politics, Kennedy's vote was often pivotal, and in several key instances he sided with the court's liberals, never more famously than in Obergefell v. Hodges, the decision that made same sex marriage legal nationwide. Consider this Justice Anthony Kennedy opens up about his time on the court in a new memoir, and in an interview with our longtime Supreme Court reporter, he has a warning about bitter partisanship even on the nation's highest court.

[Justice Anthony Kennedy]

Democracy is not guaranteed to survive.

[Andrew Limbaugh]

From npr, Andrew Limbaugh.

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[Andrew Limbaugh]

It's consider this from NPR. NPR's Nina Totenberg has reported on the Supreme Court for decades, so she's read a lot of books written by justices. For the most part, she says they're pretty boring. The new one from retired Justice Anthony Kennedy, is an exception. Here's her story.

[Nina Totenberg]

I sat down with Justice Kennedy in his chambers during a week in which TV comic Jimmy Kimmel was suspended and President Trump fired his hand picked prosecutor for failing to indict former FBI Director James Comey. So I asked the justice what his thoughts were about the current turmoil. While he didn't want to get into what he called political fights, his comments were pointed.

[Justice Anthony Kennedy]

My concern is that we live in an era where reasoned, thoughtful, rational, respectful discourse has been replaced by antagonistic, confrontational conversation. And I'm very worried about it. Democracy is not guaranteed to survive.

[Nina Totenberg]

And he's also worried about the growth of extreme partisanship in all branches of government, even the Court.

[Justice Anthony Kennedy]

My concern is that the Court, in its own opinions, in the way we talk about those who disagree with us, has to moderate and become much more respectful.

[Nina Totenberg]

Though Kennedy, a Reagan appointee, voted most often with the Court's conservatives, in his 30 years on the Court, he was frequently the so called swing justice whose vote was determinative in controversial cases ranging from free speech and religion to same sex marriage and abortion. His book reveals more than usual about the personalities on the court and his own internal conflicts. Starting in 1996, Kennedy wrote every decision about gay rights, culminating in 2015 when he wrote the Court's majority opinion declaring that same sex couples must be allowed to marry everywhere in the country. Here he is reading an excerpt from that opinion.

[Justice Anthony Kennedy]

No union is more profound than marriage, for it embodies the highest ideals of love, fidelity, devotion, sacrifice and family. As some of the petitioners in these cases demonstrate, their hope is not to be condemned to live in loneliness, excluded from one of civilization's oldest institutions. They ask for equal dignity in the eyes of the law. The Constitution grants them that right.

[Nina Totenberg]

In our conversation, Kennedy said that one of the most persuasive things for him in the case was that there were so many children who'd been adopted by gay parents. But because the law didn't recognize gay marriage, only one person could be the designated legal parent, leaving the other parent unable to sign school papers, make medical decisions, or sometimes even visit a child in the hospital.

[Justice Anthony Kennedy]

This was terribly demeaning to the children. How many children? There were hundreds of thousands of children of gay parents this was eye opening for me, and it was very important.

[Nina Totenberg]

Kennedy's decision in the same sex marriage case and his decision upholding a woman's right to have an abortion are exhibits A and B of his opposition to originalism, the doctrine that now dominates the Supreme Court. Six members of the current court, including two of his former law clerks, have largely embraced the idea that the Constitution should be interpreted by following its words as understood at the time it was ratified. In contrast, Kennedy says liberty must be understood over time and that interpreting the Constitution is not a matter of looking at dictionaries from the 1700s to figure out what the Founding Fathers meant. The men who wrote the Constitution, he says, were cautious enough and modest enough that they intentionally chose capacious terms that would inspire and protect freedom. Or as he put it in his same sex marriage opinion, the nature of.

[Justice Anthony Kennedy]

Injustice is that we may not always see it in our own times. The generations that wrote and ratified the Bill of rights and the 14th amendment did not presume to know the extent of freedom in all of its dimensions. And so they entrusted to future generations a charter protecting the right of all persons to enjoy liberty as we learn its meaning.

[Nina Totenberg]

That is a view that originalists fiercely dispute, at least some of the time. And it was never more apparent than in the same sex marriage cases, which caused a rupture in Kennedy's relationship with the Court's most prominent originalist, Justice Antonin Scalia. The break came over Scalia's dissenting opinion in which he wrote that if he ever were to join an opinion like Kennedy's, quote, I would hide my head in a bag. Kennedy says that while he was able to shrug off Scalia's dissent, his children and their spouses were devastated by its tone. Indeed, Kennedy says that Scalia, known to all as Nino, seemed to become more isolated at that time, rarely coming to lunch with his colleagues. And he no longer stopped by Kennedy's chambers to chat or debate a point. Months went by, and then one day In February of 2016, Scalia walked down the long corridor of the Court to Kennedy's chambers. Once there, he got to the point.

[Justice Anthony Kennedy]

He said, the language used in my dissent was intemperate and wrong, and I want to apologize. And I said, nothing is more important to me than our own friendship. And we weren't hugging people, but we gave each other a hug. And I said, nino, now you've been traveling a lot, you should take better care of yourself. And he said, tony, he said, this is my last long trip. And that was his final words to me.

[Nina Totenberg]

About a week later, Scalia died in his sleep while on that trip to Texas. As Kennedy writes in his book, if friendships are slipping away, we must renew them soon, lest times not permit us to celebrate them for long.

[Andrew Limbaugh]

NPR legal affairs correspondent Nina Totenberg Kennedy's new book is called Life, Law and Liberty. Before we go, a quick plug for our recent bonus episode, an extended interview with actress Jane Fonda about her work to help revive a McCarthy era organization dedicated to free speech. You'll find that episode just before this one. Bonus episodes of Consider this are released every other Saturday, a perk along with sponsor free listening for our NPR supporters. If that's not you, it could be and you could help power the journalism you hear on this show. Learn more at plus.NPR.org our regular weekday episodes will always remain free and available. This episode was produced by Brianna Scott and Connor Donovan with audio engineering by David Greenberg. It was edited by Anna Yukonanoff and Patrick Jaron Watananan. Our executive producer is Sam Yenigun. It's considered this from npr. I'm Andrew Limbaugh.

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