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- [00:00]
Juana Summers
Vice President Kamala Harris historic candidacy ended in defeat last week. But for some Americans, her four month bid for the presidency left a big mark.
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Tressie McMillan Cottom
Just seeing that she was able to be in a position like that is really inspiring for me and other young black women.
- [00:17]
Juana Summers
That's Charmander Jeanne Francois. She's a senior at Howard University, Harris alma mater.
- [00:23]
Tressie McMillan Cottom
She really painted a portrait that no matter what, our voices are heard, our voices matter and we're worthy to be in positions like that just is ingrained in me to keep pushing forward for things that I want to pursue in my life and my career.
- [00:39]
Juana Summers
For Jeanne Francois Harris racial identity contributed to her appeal as a candidate. That and her stance on reproductive rights. It's a sentiment echoed by many women of color who cast their ballots for Harris that they felt represented by her. Among them is Jalika Ali, a 65 year old in New York City.
- [00:58]
Jalika Ali
I really saw myself in her because I am black and Asian, South Asian, and it was time for the change. And I really thought she could be the person to get the votes to get in to unseat Trump, but apparently not.
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Juana Summers
Ali says she gravitated toward Harris because of her identity. She also believes Harris's identity cost her the election.
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Jalika Ali
Sexism and racism, that's really what it comes down to. And I don't, I don't know that this country's ready to elect a woman president of any race, to tell you the truth.
- [01:38]
Juana Summers
Ali and Jean Francois say they're disappointed by the outcome of the presidential race. And yet, looking back on the campaign, both women say they're ultimately walking away hopeful.
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Jalika Ali
She should hold her head up high. She was the first, and she would take the brunt of this loss. But history will serve her. History will show that she was the stepping stone. We will get there. I just hope that it's in my lifetime that would be the best. Like Jimmy Carter wanted to live to be 100 to vote. I'd like to live long enough to see a woman president of any race.
- [02:16]
Juana Summers
Consider this Kamala Harris candidacy was historic, but the first woman of color to lead a major party's ticket lost. What will her legacy be? From npr, I'm Juana Summers. This message comes from Carvana. Whether you need weeks to research the perfect car or know exactly what you want, Carvana makes car buying easy. Choose from Carvana's massive inventory using customizable search tools. However you buy, buy your car with Carvana.
- [02:52]
Tressie McMillan Cottom
This is Ira Glass of this American Life. Each week on our show, we choose a theme, tell different stories on that theme all right. I'm just going to stop right there. You're listening to an NPR podcast. Chances are you know our show. So instead, I'm going to tell you we've just been on a run of really good shows lately, some big, epic, emotional stories and some weird, funny stuff, too. Download us this American Life.
- [03:16]
Juana Summers
Okay. So does this sound like you you love NPR's podcasts, you wish you could get more of all your favorite shows, and you want to support NPR's mission to create a more informed public. If all that sounds appealing, then it is time to sign up for the NPR Bundle. Learn more at plus.NPR.org it's consider this from NPR. Vice President Kamala Harris did not campaign on her identity or being a first. Still, for some Americans who voted for her, what resonated most was who she is. The historic Harris campaign ended in defeat. So where does that leave her legacy? Here to answer that is Tressie McMillan Cottom. She's a sociologist and a New York Times opinion columnist. Hi there.
- [04:11]
Tressie McMillan Cottom
Hi. Pleasure to be here.
- [04:12]
Juana Summers
Tressi, if I can, I want to start with something that you wrote in the New York Times shortly after Election Day, and I'm going to quote you here. You wrote that her ascendancy to the top of her party should have felt like the realization of my childhood dreams. Instead, for weeks, I have felt isolated in my ennui. Explain what you mean by that.
- [04:31]
Tressie McMillan Cottom
Well, I, like many people, lived through the Obama election and presidency, and that set sort of a standard for me about this sense of hopefulness, especially among black Americans, about whether or not this nation could even nominate, much less elect a black president. But as a black woman, I expected to feel, if not that same sense of joyfulness at this point. We had lived through the first Trump presidency, and that sort of dimmed some of the hope and optimism. But I had some of the same questions about Kamala Harris that I had about Barack Obama. Is this the country I now live in? Win or lose, it felt like a decision about the possibility for a different type of political leadership in this country. And having gotten as close as Kamala Harris got, being the presumed even nominee of the Democratic Party felt really significant and important from an intellectual standpoint. But I really struggled with the fact that it didn't not have for me the same scale and depth of hopefulness and optimism that I had always imagined I would feel when this moment came. And I wrestled with whether or not that was about the way that she became the candidate, if it was about the context within which she became the candidate or if this said something about my relationship to this particular candidate. And I think I felt a sort of over identification with a very qualified, high profile black female leader being called in when democracy was in crisis. So if democracy is like a business, right. What we know from social science research is that women leaders are often called in to be the first woman leader when the company is in crisis. And one way to think about this election for me was that democracy was very much in crisis. I think the Harris campaign itself very often framed this election as being an election about the veracity of. And I thought, well, what a time for us to finally call a black woman up for leadership, right. When democracy itself is on the ballot. And that stripped for me some of the hopefulness that it had a certain sense of desperation. You know, one of the ways I said it to a friend was that, you know, it's hard to be excited about the reward when it comes with so much risk.
- [07:03]
Juana Summers
We know that black women have been a bedrock of the Democratic party for decades with their organizing, their leadership, fueling victory after victory. And you wrote in your piece that they have, quote, saved democracy enough times to deserve more than cosmetic diversity. What do black women deserve instead?
- [07:22]
Tressie McMillan Cottom
Black women are voters. We are constituents. We're not just soldiers in the battle for democracy, which I'm gonna tell you, I've. In this way, I'm probably typical. I'm a black woman of the American South. I don't think is any secret what probably my politics are. But I don't love this rhetoric about black women saving democracy or us relying on black women to be the canaries in the coal mine. I like to remind people that the canary in that coal mine, it dies. Yes, it is a signal to the miners, but the canary itself dies. And the sacrifice that black women have made for democratic politics and for the Democratic party, I think deserves more than a Hail Mary candidacy that is said to be, you know, this was us rewarding your loyalty. No, I think we deserve a real candidate with real institutional support who will then be held responsible for responding to black women as voters. Meaning we have more to offer this party than our identity and our commitment. We also have economic issues. We are also working class voters. We are also real Americans. We also live in rural America. That is the say we have political interests that I think the Democratic party owes us some attention to because we have been, as you point out, a bedrock of the Democratic Party's base.
- [08:51]
Juana Summers
You mentioned this idea of real institutional support being deserved, and I want to stay with that for a Second, because I'm a former political correspondent and over the years I've talked to so many black women who have either worked on campaigns or black women who have run themselves, who have reflected on the fact that they don't believe the Democratic Party specifically has adequately invested in and supported in their campaigns. And we've talked about the fact that Vice President Harris became her party's nominee in an atypical way. How much of that do you think was a factor? They raised record amounts of money. She drew these massive crowds.
- [09:27]
Tressie McMillan Cottom
I think that she was a good institutional player for an institution that has not been as good to the base that they needed to show up and support Kamala Harris. That is to say, she did her job. She raised money, as you point out, and raised a lot of money, by the way. This was a person who understood the job and I think did it at a phenomenal level of success. When you look beyond whether or not she got elected, which is, you know, has a lot of moving parts. I'm not sure, however, that the Democratic Party has repaid that favor to your point, especially to black women running down ballot races. And here's the thing about infrastructure. If you want a black woman leader, if you want a woman leader, you have to have a base of support for her, right? You don't just put her at the top and then wait for the base to find her. That person needs an infrastructure beneath her. That means down ballot races. That means an infrastructure of Democratic operatives who have bought in to the campaign and to that candidate as the future of the party. And so in some ways, having that sort of anemic black woman, institutional support in the Democratic Party weakened candidate Harris ability to mobilize the party when it became necessary to do so for her campaign. And that isn't something that's done overnight. That's not a four month campaign problem. That is a long institutional historical problem with the party.
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Juana Summers
While Harris did lose and some races further down the ballot, there were signs of some political momentum and victories for black women, including the fact that come January, the Senate will see two black women serving in the chamber together for the first time. And it made me wonder, what do you think that future black women candidates should borrow from Vice President Harris playbook? And one thing should they leave behind?
- [11:14]
Tressie McMillan Cottom
Oh, I'm thinking about this so much. So much of how I watched this campaign unfold for me was about saying, this is our first opportunity to build exactly that. A playbook. Right? There is nothing. I've been talking to historians and political scientists for the last few days. And they wanna draw these conclusions about black women presidential candidates. And I'm like, based on what? This is the only one we've. And so her campaign really was an indicator of sorts about what the voters were willing to do, what the infrastructure made possible to be done. And I think there are a couple of things. I again, understand the constraints on her ability to do so, but I continue to think that there was opportunity there to lean into the historic nature of this campaign. Yes, there was some potential downside during a conservative backlash of leaning into, quote, unquote, identity. But I think one of the things we learned from the Obama coalition is that there is a broad base of coalition support to be built that makes people feel good about doing the right thing, about finally voting for the woman candidate, about voting for a black woman candidate. And I'm not sure that subsuming the narrative about the historic nature of her race and gender helped in that regard. I think there were a lot more voters we could have brought to the table about making them feel good about supporting this candidacy, even if it was just on a diversity basis. I think it's unfortunate that diversity got such a negative reputation due to the culture wars that the right has very successfully waged, that it was so tied to the idea of being the quote, unquote, DEI candidate that I think this campaign ran a little too far from that, and there was some potential there. I think one of the things that we may get from this playbook for people who are not necessarily running for president, but for down ballot races for black women is that you can raise. I think there is a narrative out there that we only rely on or can only be relied on to do small donor donations. There is obviously, I think, some appetite there for competitive candidates and for raising money, especially, again, when they have the institutional support to do so. And so I would hope that becomes part of our playbook because it really does counter some of the common sense wisdom about black women political candidates. And then finally, I do think that there was something about how well Harris embodied presidential power during her campaign that I think can be part of the political playbook moving forward. You know, there have always been questions about whether or not, you know, women can be seen as powerful if they're wearing high heels or if they talk about foreign policy, if they'll be taken seriously, can they talk about the economy that has really infiltrated down ballot races where women are often constrained to talking about politics through the, quote, unquote, kitchen table analogies. Right. Or talking about politics that are assumed to be more associated with gender, education policy and that kind of thing. But Harris in many ways ran as an aggressive foreign policy hawk, sort of center right, and talked, I think most eloquently, actually even about foreign policy in some ways than she did about domestic policy. And I actually like that opening for black women who I just happen to think have as much to offer to politics beyond, you know, the kitchen table and quote, unquote, identity issues at the local level than we are often given credit for.
- [14:46]
Juana Summers
That is Tressie McMillan Cottom, a sociologist and an opinion columnist for the New York Times. Thank you.
- [14:53]
Tressie McMillan Cottom
Thank you.
- [14:55]
Juana Summers
This episode was produced by Katherine Fink. It was edited by Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun. It's CONSIDER THIS from npr. I'm Juana Summers. If you need a moment to catch your breath and calm your nerves, listen to the latest All Songs Considered from NPR Music. We've got an all new mix of songs to slow the blood and recalibrate your day, plus reflections on gratitude, joy and the power of kindness. Listen to new episodes of All Songs Considered every Tuesday. Wherever you get podcasts. Joe Biden's on his way out and Donald Trump's on his way back. Want to know what's happening as the presidential transition is underway? The NPR Politics Podcast has you covered with the latest news and analysis. Listen to the NPR Politics Podcast. Want to hear this podcast without sponsor breaks? Amazon prime members can listen to Consider this sponsor free through Amazon Music. Or you can also support NPR's vital journalism and get consider this plus@plus.NPR.org that's plus.NPR.org.