Kimmel cancellation renews questions about free speech

Summary

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Consider This from NPR

Episode: Kimmel Cancellation Renews Questions About Free Speech
Date: September 18, 2025
Host: Ari Shapiro
Guests: Domenico Montanaro (NPR Senior Political Editor/Correspondent), Tom Wheeler (Former FCC Chair)

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Ari Shapiro and the team dive into the cancellation of "Jimmy Kimmel Live" after controversial on-air comments about the assassination of Charlie Kirk. The suspension, prompted by threats from the FCC chairman and political pressure, has ignited national debate over free speech, government oversight of media, and the delicate intersection of politics, money, and democracy. The episode features detailed insights from Domenico Montanaro and Tom Wheeler, examining the legal, financial, and democratic implications of the FCC's actions and the Trump administration's stance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background: Kimmel’s Suspension and the Political Context

• After Jimmy Kimmel referenced the assassination of right-wing figure Charlie Kirk in his monologue and suggested the alleged shooter was a MAGA supporter, ABC suspended Kimmel indefinitely.
• FCC Chairman Brendan Carr publicly called for action against Kimmel by ABC affiliates, warning of further FCC involvement if steps were not taken.
• President Trump, aboard Air Force One, suggested more drastic measures, including potentially revoking licenses of networks airing critical coverage of him.

2. FCC’s Unprecedented Role and Political Pressure

• Domenico Montanaro outlines how Carr’s threats marked a significant departure from FCC norms, historically avoiding intervention against individual performers or companies.
  • "Carr has talked about wanting to rebalance the legacy media and have a more active FCC… Others disagree with how he’s applying that standard, though." (06:07)
• Tom Wheeler (former FCC Chair) describes the direct pressure affiliates felt:
  • "Every heartbeat of the FCC chairman is something they pay a lot of attention to… when Brendan Carr comes out and says 'we can do this two ways, the hard way or the easy way,' that's really a subtle way of sounding like some B movie actor saying, 'It’d be a terrible thing.'" (08:25)

3. Legal Limits and the First Amendment

• Wheeler emphasizes any legal action to silence Kimmel would likely fail in court under the First Amendment, but notes the chilling effect of governmental pressure:
  • "If this had gone to court, then I have absolutely no doubt that the First Amendment would have kicked in...” (09:24)
  • "It raised the dynamics of this whole thing beyond a late night comic to autocratic control of the media." (09:24)
• Shapiro poses the critical question of why, if First Amendment protection is strong, media companies capitulate to FCC or Presidential pressure. Wheeler’s answer is blunt: their futures—and lucrative mergers—are at stake.

4. Financial Motives and the Media Business

• Montanaro analyzes how business interests and political pressure are intertwined:
  • "A lot of companies are doing what they can to stay in the good graces of the Trump administration because there’s just a lot of money at stake." (06:33)
  • He notes Nexstar Media's pending merger with Tegna hinges on FCC approval—a process suddenly threatened by the controversy around Kimmel.
• Wheeler adds historical context, referencing previous instances where FCC approval hinged on settlements with the Trump administration.
  • "Brendan Carr made it clear he would not approve that merger until CBS settled with Donald Trump on the specious suit about 60 Minutes." (11:01)

5. Regulatory Standards & Political Influence

• The discussion covers the FCC’s ambiguous “public interest” standard and how it can be weaponized.
  • Wheeler: "Brendan Carr has just taken... the vagueness of that term and turned it into a tool for the Trump administration to intimidate and coerce those that they license." (11:11)
• The episode highlights a critical shift: President Trump’s executive order making the FCC subject to White House review, removing its historic independence.
  • "Last February, Donald Trump issued an executive order overruling that and saying it's no longer an independent, that it will review all of its considered actions and final actions with the White House." (12:22)

6. Consequences, Cancel Culture, and Democracy

• Wheeler characterizes the current moment as a new type of cancel culture:
  • "What we’re looking at right now, Ari, is a new iteration of the cancel culture that Trump for so long had complained about. This is Cancel Culture 2.0, where you leverage the FCC to affect what people hear." (13:18)
• He warns of broader implications for democracy if political intimidation continues:
  • "That kind of intimidation on matters protected by the First Amendment is absolutely outrageous." (14:05)
• President Obama’s response is cited:
  • "This is precisely the kind of government coercion that the First Amendment was designed to prevent. And media companies need to start standing up rather than capitulating to it." (12:46)

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Notable Quotes

• Brendan Carr (via Domenico Montanaro):
  • "We can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct, to take action, frankly, on Kimmel or, you know, there's going to be additional work for the FCC ahead." (01:12)
• President Trump (on Air Force One):
  • "I would think maybe their license should be taken away. It will be up to Brendan [Carr]." (01:48)
• Tom Wheeler:
  • "Brendan Carr has just taken... that vagueness [of ‘public interest’] and turned it into a tool for the Trump administration to intimidate and coerce those that they license." (11:11)
  • "You leverage the FCC to affect what people hear by influencing what media outlets can say." (13:18)
  • "That kind of intimidation on matters protected by the First Amendment is absolutely outrageous." (14:05)
• Ari Shapiro:
  • "Late night comedians have always criticized and mocked politicians… How important is that independence from the President and the administration?" (12:17)
• President Obama (via Wheeler):
  • "This is precisely the kind of government coercion that the First Amendment was designed to prevent. And media companies need to start standing up rather than capitulating to it." (12:46)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:25: Overview of Kimmel’s suspension, FCC reaction, and Trump’s escalating threats
• 04:21: Why Kimmel’s comments triggered Republican outrage (Montanaro)
• 05:00: FCC Chair Carr’s podcast remarks; the public interest standard weaponized
• 06:33: The intersection of media business and regulatory power (Nexstar–Tegna merger)
• 07:48: Tom Wheeler on the unprecedented nature of FCC intervention
• 09:24: First Amendment implications and autocratic threats to media
• 11:11: FCC’s duty, “public interest” vagueness, and weaponization under Trump
• 12:22: Loss of FCC independence after Trump’s executive order
• 13:18: Cancel Culture 2.0, business risks for defiant media, and the broader impact
• 14:05: Wheeler on the gravity of Trump’s license threats and the path forward for media

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Memorable Moments & Final Thoughts

• The episode draws a stark parallel between calls for accountability and veiled threats of censorship, recasting “cancel culture” as a tool of government power rather than public activism.
• Both Montanaro and Wheeler stress that while legal protections are robust, the economic and bureaucratic levers available to the executive branch can have an immediate and chilling effect on free speech and press independence.
• Throughout, the tone is urgent but analytical, with Wheeler and Montanaro pulling back the curtain on the invisible pressures shaping American media and democracy in a fraught moment.

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Summary prepared for listeners and readers seeking a rich, nuanced understanding of the Kimmel controversy, the FCC's evolving role, and the crossroads of speech, business, and democracy in contemporary America.

Transcript

[Ari Shapiro]

Before we get to today's Consider this, we've heard from listeners who say consider this has become part of their daily routine, a way to make sense of things. If that's true for you, take a couple minutes and leave us a review. It's a small thing, but it really does help people find the show. Thanks. First it was the Late show with Stephen Colbert.

[Domenico Montanaro]

You may have heard the news. Last week we learned that the Late.

[Tom Wheeler]

Show will be ending in May and.

[Ari Shapiro]

I want to Now Jimmy Kimmel Live is off the air indefinitely after ABC suspended its host. The fallout came after the comedian Jimmy Kimmel referenced Charlie Kirk's assassination during his Monday night monologue. We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them and doing everything they can to score political points from police haven't announced a motive for Kirk's killing. Kimmel's suggestion that the alleged shooter was a MAGA supporter got a stark reaction from the right. ABC's suspension came after threats that Brendan Carr, the chairman of the Federal Communications Commission, made Wednesday night on the podcast the Benny Show. It's hosted by conservative commentator Benny Johnson. Here's what Carr said.

[Domenico Montanaro]

I mean, look, we can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct, to take action, frankly on Kimmel or, you know, there's going to be additional work for the FCC ahead.

[Ari Shapiro]

In that interview, Carr said the FCC could take action against the ABC affiliates who carry Jimmy Kimmel's show. And today aboard Air Force One, President Trump suggested the possibility of going further by revoking licenses of TV networks that in his view air negative things about him.

[Tom Wheeler]

They give me only bad publicity or press.

[Domenico Montanaro]

I mean, they're getting a license.

[Tom Wheeler]

I would think maybe their license should be taken away. It will be up to Brendan Kerr.

[Ari Shapiro]

Consider the FCC is in charge of regulating broadcast media, but Kimmel's suspension raises questions about freedom of speech in the US and about the FCC's role. From NPR, I'm Ari Shapiro.

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[Ari Shapiro]

It's Consider this from NPR Comedian Jimmy Kimmel being pulled off the air has taken the conversation around freedom of speech to a new level after Charlie Kirk's assassination had already ignited that debate. This is a pivotal moment in the country with lots of important questions that center on power, money and democracy itself. I spoke about this moment with NPR senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro, and I asked him why Kimmel's comment had such a strong reaction from Republicans.

[Domenico Montanaro]

You know, after Kirk's assassination, the alleged shooter's motives were still not well known. I mean, there was discussion about the inscriptions of the bullets, the meme and gamer culture around them and how some of this may have been prevalent with some who didn't like Kirk from the right. But you know, we didn't ascribe motive because as journalists we're trying to be as cautious as possible until the facts are made clear. But that doesn't stop the Internet on either side from assuming what people want to conclude. Comedians and journalists, though of course not the same.

[Ari Shapiro]

The Federal Communications Commission has gotten involved and started the domino effect that apparently led to Kimmel being taken off the air indefinitely. According to ABC, what was the FCC's role here?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Right, really. We saw all of this start in motion after FCC Chairman Brendan Carr yesterday went on the Benny Show, a podcast hosted by Benny Johnson, a conservative right wing podcaster. Here's what he said and they have a license granted by us at the fcc. And that comes with it, an obligation to operate in the public interest. And we can get into some ways that we've been trying to reinvigorate the public interest and some changes that we've seen. But frankly, when you see stuff like this, I mean, look, we can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct, to take action, frankly, on Kimmel or, you know, there's going to be additional work for the FCC ahead. Yeah, I mean, Kimmel has a long history of just eviscerating Trump and other conservatives, and that's irritated them for years. Going after him and his show this way is similar to the playbook of operationalizing political retribution that we've seen from Trump here in his second term.

[Ari Shapiro]

Trump certainly said during the campaign that he was going to seek retribution, and he appointed a loyalist known for conservative views to run the fcc. Is it typical for the FCC to comment on individual performers or companies in this way?

[Domenico Montanaro]

Historically, it hasn't been. But Carr has talked about wanting to rebalance the legacy media and have a more active FCC to do so. He cites the public interest standard, which he says is meant to hold broadcasters accountable for news distortion and broadcast hoaxes. Others disagree with how he's applying that standard, though.

[Ari Shapiro]

I said at the top that this is about power, money, and democracy itself. Where does money factor in here?

[Domenico Montanaro]

I mean, this is a marriage of politics and money, of course. I mean, let's follow the money here a little bit, and I think things become a little clearer. Nexstar Media owns a lot of broadcast stations across the country. They are on the verge of merging with Tegna, a competitor. But there's a problem. FCC's put a limit on how wide the reach is supposed to be for local broadcasters, and with this merger, nexstar would exceed that. FCC Chairman Carr has said he's open to changing the rule and lifting the cap, calling it arcane and artificial. Though there's some question as to whether the FCC can do it on its own or, you know, if they need Congress to do so. But follow the bouncing ball here, Carr goes on Benny Johnson's podcast. Just hours later, nexstar announces that it's going to preempt Jimmy Kimmel live on all of its stations, and then Kimmel is pulled. It's not a far leap to understand that a lot of companies are doing what they can to stay in the good graces of the Trump administration because there's just a lot of money at stake.

[Ari Shapiro]

That was NPR's senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro. To better understand the FCC's role and its power in this story, I also spoke with Tom Wheeler, who led the agency under President Obama. I first asked him what his reaction was to ABC's decision to suspend Kimmel.

[Tom Wheeler]

Well, you know, my reaction was to Brendan Carr's reaction to what ABC decided and the fact that what Kimmel had said, because what Brendan did was come out and, and say to the affiliates, hey, you guys ought to do something about this. Which is a highly unusual, if not unprecedented role for the chairman of the fcc.

[Ari Shapiro]

Unusual. Unprecedented. Talk about the leverage that the FCC has over affiliates, saying not to Disney or abc, you need to do something about this, but to the affiliates specifically.

[Tom Wheeler]

It's huge because the, the affiliates are broad king on airwaves that are licensed by the fcc and therefore every heartbeat of the FCC chairman is something they pay a lot of attention to. And the shocking thing was when, when Brendan Carr comes out and says, well, we can do this two ways, the hard way or the easy way. That's really a subtle way of sounding like some B movie actor saying, it'd be a terrible thing.

[Ari Shapiro]

You know, some would argue it's not that license in, in that podcast interview, Carr said, broadcasters, quote, are running the possibility of fines or license revocations from the FCC if we continue to run content with a pattern of news distortion. Of course, Kimmel doesn't work for the news division. He's a comedian. But can the FCC fine or revoke licenses that distort news in the view of the chairman?

[Tom Wheeler]

Know that if, if this had gone to court, then I have absolutely no doubt that the First Amendment would have kicked in and there would not be authority in the statute even. But Ari, you know, there's something that's even more powerful here. It's far beyond the comments of a comic, and that is on the plane on the way back from Europe today, President Trump said that they should pull the licenses of any affiliates who dis. Who are against him, unquote. And it raised the dynamics of this whole thing beyond a late night comic to autocratic control of the media.

[Ari Shapiro]

Well, except if, as you say, the First Amendment would win in court, why is the media following what the FCC chairman or potentially the President wants?

[Tom Wheeler]

Because they. Their future is controlled. Let me just give you one specific example with there is now a merger pending before the fcc that of, of nexstar, the largest station group in the country, and Tenga, another large station group. And the FCC not only has to approve that merger, but, but they also have to change the rules. Now, let's just think back. When was the last time we saw the FCC look at a broadcast merger? Oh, it was cbs. And Brendan Carr made it clear he would not approve that merger until CBS settled with Donald Trump on the specious suit about 60 minutes.

[Ari Shapiro]

So obviously there are business interests here. But to return to Brendan Carr's complaint, does the FCC have an obligation to make sure that broadcasters are accurate?

[Tom Wheeler]

The, the job of the fcc? Of course, if there is a, a clear and misleading misrepresentation, if there are, is obscenity and things like this. But the fact of the matter is that this is a judgment call as to what is, quote, the public interest of, unquote interpretation. And Brendan Carr has just taken that, that the vagueness of that term and turned it into a tool for the Trump administration to intimidate and coerce those that they license.

[Ari Shapiro]

Late night comedians have always criticized and mocked politicians. When you were chair of the fcc, did complaints about late night comedians ever cross your radar? Did you ever consider taking action against them?

[Tom Wheeler]

You know, I don't recall any late night comedian complaints. I recall other complaints, but I always believe that the First Amendment was principle here.

[Ari Shapiro]

Did those other complaints ever come from the White House?

[Tom Wheeler]

No.

[Ari Shapiro]

How important is that? Independence from the President and the administration?

[Tom Wheeler]

It's crucial. And, and that was the way that the, that the Congress set up the FCC in 1934 to be an independent agency. But last February, Donald Trump issued an executive order overruling that and saying it's no longer an independent, that it will review all of its considered actions and final actions with the, with the White House.

[Ari Shapiro]

President Obama, former President Obama, who you served when you were chair of the FCC today, tweeted, this is precisely the kind of government coercion that the First Amendment was designed to prevent. And media companies need to start standing up rather than capitulating to it. What kind of cost might a media company pay if they were to try to defy the federal government in a situation like this? I mean, you've said you think they would win in court, but even if they do eventually reach that ultimate outcome, what price do they pay in the meantime?

[Tom Wheeler]

So it's clear that the Trump administration is a vengeance based administration and that there would be looking for opportunities to, you know, take a stick to them. You know, what we're looking at right now, Ari, is a new iteration of the cancel culture that Trump for so long had complained about. This is Cancel Culture 2.0, where you leverage the FCC to affect what people hear by influencing what media outlets can say.

[Ari Shapiro]

And do you think Trump's statement aboard Air Force One today that licenses could be revoked that cover him in what he deems an unflattering way could be the next step? Or do you think it's an idle threat?

[Tom Wheeler]

It's frightening, and he threw it to Brendan, Carr said He's a great patriot and I trust him to make the decision. But that kind of intimidation on matters protected by the First Amendment is absolutely outrageous.

[Ari Shapiro]

That was Tom Wheeler, former FCC chair and current visiting fellow at the Brookings Institution. This episode was produced by Alejandra Marquez Hanse and Mark Rivers, with audio engineering by Ted Niebain and Tiffany Veracastro. It was edited by Megan Pratz and Sarah Handel. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigun. It's consider this from NPR. I'm Ari Shapiro.

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[Ari Shapiro]

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