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Are We Doomed Podcast Narrator (3:28)

Why does AI now appear alongside nuclear war as one of humanity's biggest risks?

Maria Corina Machado (3:33)

I think it's the scale of it that makes it sound absurd.

Are We Doomed Podcast Narrator (3:36)

Episode two of Are We Doomed? Explores simple steps to get there. And we might all need to hear this.

Interviewer (3:43)

If it's going to happen, it might happen very soon.

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Are We Doomed? Understand our biggest problems and what we can do. Part of the NPR Network.

Interviewer (3:50)

Listen.

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Wherever you get your podcasts,

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It's Consider

Mary Louise Kelly (3:58)

this from npr Venezuelan opposition leader Maria Carino Machado has not been back to her country since December, when she traveled to Norway to receive her Nobel Peace Prize. A lot has changed in Venezuela since then, starting with the fact that authoritarian leader Nicolas Maduro is no longer in power. We invited Machado to NPR Studios in Washington to talk about what comes next for her and for Venezuela, also to talk about her new book, the Freedom Manifesto. You're about to hear part of our conversation. There is a lot more you can listen to or watch in the latest episode of NPR's Newsmakers, our new video podcast where you can find NPR's biggest interviews.

Interviewer (4:41)

Let's start with your plans. You have said you would like to go back to Venezuela by the end of this year. What conditions need to be in place? What needs to happen for that to be possible?

Maria Corina Machado (4:53)

Well, since the day I was able to escape my country, I said that I wanted to go back as soon as possible, but certainly I had some.

Interviewer (5:05)

You left in December to go get your Nobel Peace Prize.

Maria Corina Machado (5:07)

Exactly.

Interviewer (5:08)

And then everything changed in your country in January.

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Exactly.

Maria Corina Machado (5:10)

Exactly. But at the same time, I knew I had some objectives to accomplish. One of them is precisely being banned from living in Venezuela for over 12 years. Imagine so many people I have never met in person. I had a very long list of global leaders and Venezuelans living abroad that I wanted to meet, to talk, to organize, to align views and actions. That's what I've been doing in the last months. And I'm planning to go back. Certainly this is something that is being talked with and coordinated with the US Government.

Interviewer (5:54)

End of this year. That is still.

Maria Corina Machado (5:56)

Oh, I think it's going to be much sooner than that.

Interviewer (5:59)

Like when?

Maria Corina Machado (5:59)

Like sooner days, Weeks? No, I prefer not to say that yet because of course there are elements of logistics of security that I have to address.

Interviewer (6:12)

So, to loop back to my question, I understand you don't want to get into specifics of your security arrangements, but what conditions need to be in place for you to be able to. To set foot in Venezuela?

Maria Corina Machado (6:24)

Well, I'm sure you're aware that I've been accused of everything from terrorism to murder just because we were able to organize a society and to defeat the regime by a landslide. That's really what started this brutal wave of repression against the Venezuelan people, me included. Basically, I had threats on my life, on my family, on my friends, on my colleagues. Most of them had to flee in order to save their lives. So what we expect is that the regime understands that things have changed dramatically. And certainly the role the US Government is playing right now represents an element of pressure for the regime not to act against many of the political actors and social actors that are starting to go back to Venezuela.

Interviewer (7:25)

So you need pressure from the US and others on the current. The people currently ruling Venezuela to make sure that you will be safe to go.

Maria Corina Machado (7:32)

Absolutely.

Interviewer (7:33)

What's the first thing you'll do when you land?

Maria Corina Machado (7:36)

Oh, wow. You were the opposition.

Interviewer (7:40)

You're the opposition leader. Will you lead people into the streets in protest?

Maria Corina Machado (7:45)

I was thinking the first thing is smelling my country, touching our people, kissing the ground. No, we are the government elect, actually, not the opposition. We won an election. But having done that, and in order to facilitate and contribute to the path that President Trump, Secretary Rubio have stated, we have accepted that we should go into a new election to regenerate what. What we already did imagine with the toughest, extreme, unjust conditions we had in 2024, in which a third of the population of Venezuela who had been forced to leave were not allowed to vote. And we did win, and we prove it with almost 70% of the vote. Imagine what's going to happen with free and fair elections.

Interviewer (8:47)

What about just practically speaking? Do you have a checklist of what needs to get done? I'm thinking about things as basic but as essential as voting machines, voting rolls, electoral commission.

Maria Corina Machado (8:59)

Absolutely, we do. And regarding the technical part of the election, this is very hard for me to say, but we've turned in experts in how elections can be, you know, perverted, but we also turn ourselves into experts on how to overcome those conditions. So now we know precisely what ought to be done, and we want to turn Venezuela into a blueprint of elections that are trusted by everyone.

Interviewer (9:33)

Are you able to do any of that now? With you still outside? Do you have People on the ground who are starting to put those things in motion.

Maria Corina Machado (9:43)

Yes, yes. And not only in the ground. Venezuelans around the world. Imagine having a third of your population in all these countries in every single continent, and people are organizing so that, as I said, from a technical perspective, we believe that we could have these right elections, really transparent, done in 40 weeks. That's roughly nine months. Once you start, you know, to make the political decisions to go forward. That means that a lot, a lot of things have to be done, not only regarding the integrity of the nine months.

Interviewer (10:21)

So we're talking early 2027, do you think, is the. Is the timeline?

Maria Corina Machado (10:25)

Well, if we start now, yes, or even the end of the year. But the political decision has to be made because there are other issues, not only the technical part of it.

Interviewer (10:36)

Just to say out loud, every time I interview you, I am struck by what a tricky position you are in, what a fine line you are walking. You need the support of the United States and of President Trump. You need it so badly, you went to the White House and handed him your Nobel Peace Prize. But he has questioned your ability to lead, and he has openly supported your rivals.

Maria Corina Machado (11:03)

Well, I will go back to something I mentioned to you. I mean, President Trump is the only head of state in the world that has risked the lives of some of his citizens for the freedom of Venezuela. And this is something I will always recognize and our society is grateful for.

Interviewer (11:24)

I will close, if I may, with a more personal question, because you are a political leader. You're also a mom. You have three kids, all adults. Now, in your book, the Freedom Manifesto, you write that you feel guilty for what you have brought upon your family and that it is perhaps the most difficult burden you carry. Why?

Maria Corina Machado (11:55)

Well, I have fought with guilt all my life. I don't know if that has happened to you. You and me both, I think women in our generation, because, you know, we want it all. We want to serve our nation. We want to be good neighbors, we want to develop our careers. We want to be good sisters and daughters and friends and moms and wives. And it's hard to do it all the same.

Interviewer (12:24)

Well, and I. Most of us have not had the experience you had of sending our children to live outside our country so that they would be safe.

Maria Corina Machado (12:31)

That was the hardest moment in my life. One day, I was standing in front of the national assembly and I started denouncing, precisely, corruption and drug trafficking. And I stopped talking. I was frozen. And I only thought, my daughter, my daughter, she's driving her car from the university to her home. So I sat down, I went home and I told her, you are going, you're leaving. And she said, oh, no, mom, I won't leave you alone. And I said, yes, you are. Yes you are. You have to go. And it was the hardest day in my life because I had to choose. And I decided that in order to be a good mother and protect my children, but also to serve my country, I had to put my children in a safe place. And I'm very grateful because the US Was that place where they could study and I wasn't able to be under graduation days. I was through a screen, the only proud mom who wasn't present. And that's why I feel guilty. But at the same time, I've done it for them, for millions of children I think and love as mine as well, and because I know that they will be able to go back to a proud nation that will be an example of peace, freedom, justice and opportunities for all in the future and will never, ever again suffer under a tyranny.

Interviewer (13:57)

Maria Corinna Machado, Venezuelan political leader, author of the new book the Freedom Manifesto and Mom, proud mom, thank you very much.

Maria Corina Machado (14:05)

Very proud. Thank you.

Mary Louise Kelly (14:07)

And for more of our conversation, find NPR's Newsmakers. Wherever you get podcasts, follow or subscribe to the show on Spotify and YouTube. Wherever you watch or listen, you can also find newsmakers in the NPR app. This episode was produced by Alejandra Marquez Reinze with audio engineering by Tiffany Vero Castro, David Greenberg and Robert Rodriguez. It was edited by William Troup and Courtney Dorning. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigun. It's consider this from npr. I'm Mary Louise Kelly.

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