Miles and worlds apart: two NPR reporters on covering the war in Gaza

Summary

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Episode Overview

Title: Miles and Worlds Apart: Two NPR Reporters on Covering the War in Gaza
Date: January 24, 2026
Podcast: Consider This from NPR
Host: Sarah McCammon

This episode dives into the experiences of two NPR journalists—Daniel Estrin, based in Tel Aviv, and Anas Baba, reporting from within Gaza—as they navigate the unique challenges and dangers of covering the ongoing war in Gaza. The conversation exposes the deep reliance on local journalists, the evolving nature of their partnership, and the personal and professional costs of reporting from a war zone.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Role and Value of Local Journalists

• Establishing Partnerships:
  Daniel Estrin shares how, in 2019, he relied on recommendations to find a reliable local journalist in Gaza and was introduced to Anas Baba.

  “A mutual friend of ours told me, you really got to check out this guy named Anas. He is young, ambitious, and super talented.” — Daniel Estrin (00:27)

• Essential Support:
  Anas's work as a producer included arranging permits, navigating checkpoints, and facilitating interviews, all critical to successful foreign reporting.
• On-the-Ground Insight:

  “So the last stop is me saying welcome to Gaza to Daniel, always. And once we just, like, get into Gaza, the real work is starting.” — Anas Baba (01:05)

2. Capturing the Human Impact of Conflict

• Reporting Rhythm:
  Estrin and Baba describe their cycle of high-intensity reporting during flare-ups, followed by periods of fragile normalcy.
• Iconic Moments:
  In 2021, Anas captured a photo showing the dual perspectives of the conflict—rockets launched from Gaza and Israel's Iron Dome interceptors.

  “That photo was iconic, I do believe, because both sides of the conflict saw it as a photo that they liked.” — Anas Baba (01:43)

• Stories of Resilience:
  After a ceasefire, the reporters encountered a family committed to survival, symbolizing everyday resilience within Gaza.

  “It was a father, a mother and his two children. Very, very cute children. And they told us that we're gonna keep living.” — Anas Baba (02:12)

3. The Shattering Impact of the October 7, 2023 Escalation

• Personal Accounts:
  Both journalists share where they were and what they felt as events unfolded on October 7.

  “It was like when the hell's gates is opened… It was something that I'll never forget my life. It's a day that sticks and will never leave me.” — Anas Baba (04:33) “I remember waking up at 6:30 that morning in Tel Aviv… I ran into the safe room… and then I just remember getting straight to work reporting on an extremely, extremely terrifying, intense day.” — Daniel Estrin (05:02)

• Shock and Uncertainty:
  The reporters reflect on their ongoing surprise and sense of foreboding about the conflict’s trajectory.

  “The day still keeps surprising us, and we didn't know at that time how true that would be for the next two years.” — Daniel Estrin quoting a text exchange with Anas (06:07)

4. The War's Human Cost — and Danger for Journalists

• Scale of Destruction:
  The war has resulted in widespread devastation: destroyed infrastructure, mounting casualties, and dire shortages of essentials.
• Danger for Journalists:
  The conflict has become the deadliest on record for journalists, with over 260 Palestinian journalists killed and at least 64 directly targeted (07:01).

  “Anas is one of the few Palestinian journalists working full time since before October 7th until today with an American news outlet. We are incredibly fortunate to continue to be able to work with him because it's vital.” — Daniel Estrin (07:01)

5. Evolving Methods of Reporting

• Remote Collaboration:
  Since international journalists cannot enter Gaza, coverage relies entirely on Anas and other local reporters who remain in the Strip.

  “We work from afar, but we work together. Every day, I call Anas or text him every morning…” — Daniel Estrin (09:19)

• Intensity and Burden:

  “The amount of video and audio that Anas is collecting every day is so immense and so overwhelming and very painful and it's difficult to put it all together. But we've been going nonstop.” — Daniel Estrin (09:19)

6. The Personal Stakes and Commitment of Local Journalists

• Family History and Responsibility:
  Anas describes the generational weight of reporting from Gaza, continuing the work of his father and grandfather.

  “I'm originally a Palestinian and this conflict is 80 years old… It was the rule of Mei, the third generation, to stay here and to report of what is happening here on the ground.” — Anas Baba (08:26)

• No Way Out:
  The difference between foreign and local journalists is stark—Anas has no option to leave, his commitment and risk are total.

  “Maybe the only difference between me and Daniel, that Daniel, when things got truly, truly hard and dangerous, can drive his car maybe to Ben Gurion Airport, just show his own passport and get the ticket and fly away. I can't do that because there is no airport. There is no way out. The only thing that I can do is keep reporting non stop every single day.” — Anas Baba (10:29)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• Anas on welcoming Daniel into Gaza and beginning “the real work”:
  “So the last stop is me saying welcome to Gaza to Daniel, always. And once we just, like, get into Gaza, the real work is starting.” (01:05)

• On the dual meaning of iconic conflict photography:
  “That photo was iconic, I do believe, because both sides of the conflict saw it as a photo that they liked.” — Anas Baba (01:43)

• On the irreplaceable contribution of local journalists under fire:
  “Anas is one of the few Palestinian journalists working full time since before October 7th until today with an American news outlet. We are incredibly fortunate to continue to be able to work with him because it's vital.” — Daniel Estrin (07:01)

• On generational responsibility to report the truth from Gaza:
  “It was the rule of Mei, the third generation, to stay here and to report of what is happening here on the ground.” — Anas Baba (08:26)

• Distinction between foreign and local journalists when conflict escalates:
  “Daniel… can drive his car maybe to Ben Gurion Airport, just show his own passport and get the ticket and fly away. I can't do that because there is no airport. There is no way out.” — Anas Baba (10:29)

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Segment Timeline

| Timestamp | Segment/Topic | | ---------- | --------------------------------------------------- | | 00:00–01:14| Introduction—local journalists’ essential roles | | 01:14–02:21| Partnership history; reporting pre-2021 and iconic photo| | 02:21–02:45| Changes in reporting post-October 7, 2023 | | 04:07–05:02| Where the journalists were/felt on October 7, 2023 | | 05:52–06:28| Immediate aftermath—communication and uncertainty | | 06:28–07:01| The cost—devastation in Gaza, threat to journalists | | 07:01–07:58| The necessity of local journalists like Anas | | 08:18–08:57| Anas on why he stays in Gaza—generational story | | 09:10–09:49| How methods changed—working remotely, fast-paced | | 10:29–11:07| Anas on difference in risk and possibility of escape| | 11:07–11:16| Closing thanks |

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Concluding Message

The episode offers a raw look at war reporting: the dangers, the heavy reliance on brave local journalists like Anas Baba, and the evolving partnership amidst escalating restrictions and risk. It’s a powerful reminder of both the distance—“miles and worlds apart”—and the shared commitment to bearing witness, even as the cost becomes almost unbearable.

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Transcript

[A]

To do their jobs well, foreign correspondents rely on local journalists, people who know the streets, the politics, the language, the risks. These journalists work to identify stories, line up interviews, navigate permits and checkpoints, translate, and sometimes quite literally, get reporters where they need to go. Daniel Estrin is an international correspondent for NPR based in Tel Aviv. Back in 2019, he was trying to find someone inside Gaza to report with.

[B]

And a mutual friend of ours told me, you really got to check out this guy named Anas. He is young, ambitious, and super talented.

[A]

That journalist was Anas Bhabha. He's now NPR's reporter in Gaza. But he started out as Daniel's producer, and their relationship looked like many others in foreign reporting. Anas helped arrange permits. He knew where to go, who to talk to, how things worked on the ground. Daniel could still enter Gaza. Then he'd make the drive of roughly an hour from his home in Israel, cross the checkpoints, and Anas would meet him on the other side.

[C]

So the last stop is me saying welcome to Gaza to Daniel, always. And once we just, like, get into Gaza, the real work is starting.

[A]

They spent long days driving through the Strip, reporting on hospitals, cafes, families, stories that showed how policy and politics affected ordinary people's lives. Then came 2021. Some might remember if there was a war that year, too. And a photograph Annas took became emblematic of the war. Gaza City in the background, rockets from Gaza by Palestinian militants streaking across the night sky and Israel's Iron Dome interceptors shooting them down.

[C]

That photo was iconic, I do believe, because both sides of the conflict saw it as a photo that they liked.

[A]

Palestinians saw themselves standing up to Israel, and Israelis saw their multibillion dollar defense system working. When the fighting stopped. Daniel crossed back into Gaza on the first day of a ceasefire.

[B]

And you met me on the other side of the checkpoint. I went that very same day, and we were driving, and suddenly we saw that family all dressed in pink.

[C]

It was a father, a mother and his two children. Very, very cute children. And they told us that we're gonna keep living.

[A]

That was the rhythm of their reporting. Then Daniel in and out of Gaza. War. Then a pause, a fragile normalcy until the morning of October 7, 2023. Consider this to tell the full story of the war that followed. NPR had reporters both in Israel and the Gaza Strip reporting together, just miles but worlds apart, changing their working relationship forever.

[B]

Foreign.

[A]

From NPR, I'm Sarah McCammon.

[D]

This message comes from Wise, the app for international people. Using money around the globe, you can send, spend and receive in up to 40 currencies with only a few simple taps. Be Smart Get Wise Download the Wise app today or visit wise.com Ts and Cs apply this message comes from Mint Mobile this holiday season, stop overpaying for wireless and switch To Mint Shop 50% off unlimited [e-mail] Switch Limited Time Offer upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for 12 months. Taxes and fees extra initial plan term only above 35gb network may slow when busy capable device required availability, speed and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com this message comes from Mint.

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[A]

It's Consider this from NPR Even before this latest war in Gaza, NPR's Jerusalem based correspondent Daniel Estrin and Gaza reporter Anas Bhabha had spent years working together in challenging circumstances. Once war broke out, they had to adapt to a situation that made reporting together even more difficult. For this week's Reporter's Notebook, I asked them to take me to that specific moment where they each were on October 7th.

[C]

It was like when the hell's gates is opened and you didn't know that this is the doom day. Too many. Like we're talking about thousands of rockets just like being launched from Gaza. I still remember that day was something that no one can even imagine could happen ever. It was a shock. It was something that I'll never forget my life. It's a day that sticks and will never leave me.

[B]

I remember waking up at 6:30 that morning in Tel Aviv. I just happened to wake up. It was a Saturday morning. It was supposed to be a quiet holiday. Saw a text saying that sirens were going off in southern Israel and then sirens were going off in central Israel and I ran into the safe room. Many apartments in Israel have safe rooms for when rockets are flying and we heard the air raid siren and the booms of the Iron Dome intercepting and then I just remember getting straight to work reporting on an extremely, extremely terrifying, intense day.

[C]

The only thing that we were waiting with was what exactly is going to be the Israeli response to this? Literally we were expecting the worst, but we, we were not expecting anything, even 1% of what Israel did.

[B]

I'm just scrolling through our texts from October 7, 2023. We were texting all day long, exchanging information and at 11:25pm you texted me. The day still keeps surprising us, and we didn't know at that time how true that would be for the next two years.

[A]

Those two years brought a war that has left almost all of Gaza destroyed and severe restrictions on aid that choked off fuel, food and medicine for much of the population. Entire families killed, neighborhoods reduced to rubble and displacement again and again. It's also become the deadliest conflict on record for journalists anywhere in the world. The Committee to Protect Journalists has documented more than 260 Palestinian journalists killed in Gaza by the Israeli military, and the group has concluded that at least 64 of them were directly targeted.

[B]

Anas is one of the few Palestinian journalists working full time since before October 7th until today with an American news outlet. We are incredibly fortunate to continue to be able to work with him because it's vital. I can't enter Gaza and no international journalist can. It's been that way for the last two years and counting. And you know, Sarah, the reporting on this war, you face a lot of pressures from all sides, and you cover things that authorities on all sides don't want you to cover. And we've covered it all. We have. For instance, we've documented the mass killing of an extended family in Gaza. More than 100 people spanning multiple generations killed in an Israeli strike. We've also documented some rare protests inside Gaza calling for an end to the war, protesting Hamas voices critical of Hamas's decision to launch the war.

[A]

Anas, why do you stay in Gaza and what does it mean to you to be telling the story from there?

[C]

I'm originally a Palestinian and this conflict is 80 years old. My grandfather was living in Al Lud. It's now an Israeli city. He evacuated aloud coming to Gaza and he died here. My father, after that, he's a journalist working with the agency France Press. He spent most of his life reporting on the Israeli occupation and after that on the Israelis taken out of Gaza. And after that, Hamas ruling Gaza and after that, the coup that happens here. And once the 2023 or 7 October war took place. It was the rule of Mei, the third generation, to stay here and to report of what is happening here on the ground.

[A]

How has October 7th in its aftermath changed the way that the two of you do your work and the way that you work together.

[B]

It's changed everything. I mean, we work from afar, but we work together. Every day. I call Anas or text him every morning, and if it's not me, then it's our colleague, Aya Batraoui. In Dubai or somebody else on our team. We're in constant contact and we're asking what's going on today? What are your plans today? What are you hearing? Sometimes it's Anas, there's some breaking news. Can you run out and collect some sound? And he'll say, oh, I've already done that all night long. I've recorded the sounds of Israeli bombardment in the middle of the night. And we rush to get that on the radio for the morning broadcast. And frankly, Sarah, the amount of video and audio that Anas is collecting every day is so immense and so overwhelming and very painful and it's difficult to put it all together. But we've been going nonstop.

[C]

Going back to your question, Sarah, maybe as a frontline journalist who's working on a conflict zone for almost 10 years, maybe the only difference between me and Daniel, that Daniel, when things got truly, truly hard and dangerous, can drive his car maybe to Ben Gurion Airport, just show his own passport and get the ticket and fly away. I can't do that because there is no airport. There is no way out. The only thing that I can do is keep reporting non stop every single day.

[A]

Daniel Estrin is a correspondent in Tel Aviv. Anas Baba is a reporter for NPR based in Gaza. Thanks so much to both of you for your reporting and for your time.

[B]

Thank you, guys. Thank you.

[A]

This episode was produced by Leena Muhammad. It was edited by Adam Raney and James Heider. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigun.

[D]

Foreign.

[A]

It's consider this from NPR. I'm Sarah McCammon.

[D]

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[E]

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