NPR takes Trump to court

Summary

NPR Takes Trump to Court: A Comprehensive Summary

Podcast Information:

• Title: Consider This from NPR
• Host/Author: NPR
• Episode: NPR Takes Trump to Court
• Release Date: May 27, 2025

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1. Introduction

In the episode titled "NPR Takes Trump to Court," NPR delves into the escalating conflict between public media and the Trump administration. The episode provides an in-depth analysis of the recent legal actions taken by NPR in response to an executive order aimed at defunding public broadcasters like NPR and PBS. Hosted by Mary Louise Kelly, the discussion includes insights from NPR media correspondent David Folkenflik and an exclusive interview with NPR President and CEO Kathryn Maher.

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2. House Hearing Accusations

The episode opens with NPR being under scrutiny in political arenas. At a House hearing in March, Republican Congressman James Comer of Kentucky expressed strong opposition to federal funding for public radio.

• James Comer (00:02): "I've lost confidence in public radio. I don't think, Madam Chair, they should get a penny of federal funds."

The hearing, titled "Anti-American Airwaves: Holding the Heads of NPR and PBS Accountable," saw Republicans accuse NPR of liberal bias and criticize CEO Kathryn Maher's past social media activity.

• Marjorie Taylor Greene (01:00): "From Georgia, the 77 million Americans who voted for President Trump, someone you called a deranged racist sociopath."

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3. NPR's Response and Internal Reforms

In response to the accusations, NPR CEO Kathryn Maher defended the organization's journalistic integrity while acknowledging past missteps.

• Kathryn Maher (01:13): "I do want to say that NPR acknowledges that we were mistaken in failing to cover the Hunter Biden laptop story more aggressively and sooner."

Maher highlighted the implementation of new initiatives to ensure balanced journalism, including hiring additional editors to incorporate diverse viewpoints.

• Kathryn Maher (01:46): "We are making sure that we have more points of view reflected in every story."

These reforms followed internal critiques, including an essay by a senior editor alleging liberal bias, which led to his resignation.

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4. The Executive Order: Defunding Public Media

Amidst the political backlash, the White House acted swiftly by issuing an executive order aimed at terminating federal funding for NPR and PBS.

• Mary Louise Kelly (02:13): "Trump signed an executive order this month seeking to end federal funding to NPR and PBS."

In retaliation, NPR and three Colorado Public Radio stations filed a lawsuit challenging the legality of the executive order.

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5. Legal Battle: Grounds for the Lawsuit

NPR and the involved Colorado stations initiated legal action based on two main arguments:

1. Separation of Powers Violation: The executive order oversteps presidential authority by attempting to control funding, which is traditionally within Congress's purview.

2. First Amendment Rights: The order infringes upon NPR's constitutional rights by penalizing the organization for its editorial choices.

• David Folkenflik (03:51): "The president is trying to usurp congressional power... This is a violation of NPR's free speech protections in the Constitution."

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6. Involvement of Colorado Public Radio Stations

Three Colorado Public Radio stations joined NPR in the lawsuit to emphasize the broader impact on local communities that rely on federal funding.

• David Folkenflik (05:09): "Each says they have a lot at stake, that federal funding isn't the majority of their funding, but it's a lifeline to help them keep afloat."

These stations highlight the essential role federal funds play in sustaining their operations and providing vital news and cultural coverage.

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7. White House's Stance

The White House has defended the executive order, asserting it as a legitimate effort to eliminate perceived bias in public media.

• Harrison Fields, White House Spokesperson (13:44): "The president was elected with a mandate to ensure efficient use of taxpayer dollars, and he will continue to use his lawful authority to achieve that objective."

Fields accused the Corporation for Public Broadcasting (CPB) of creating media that supports a particular political party, thereby justifying the defunding measures.

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8. Broader Context: Assault on Media

The executive order is part of a larger pattern of actions perceived as attacks on the media by the Trump administration. This includes:

• FCC Investigations: Targeting corporate underwriting practices.

• Congressional Pressure: Allies of the President pushing for the elimination of all public media funding.

• Corporate Responses: The CPB has already sued the President over attempts to remove board members, citing overreach.

• David Folkenflik (06:29): "It's part of a larger, essentially assault on the standing and financial grounding of both public media and the media at large."

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9. NPR's Defense and Future Operations

During an exclusive interview, Kathryn Maher articulated NPR's stance on the lawsuit, emphasizing the organization's commitment to editorial independence despite the political pressures.

• Kathryn Maher (07:58): "NPR is a private organization, and we have the right as a media organization to make our own editorial choices about what it is that we cover and how we cover it."

Maher refuted concerns about potential changes in NPR’s reporting style, assuring listeners that the organization would remain fair, responsible, and nonpartisan.

• Kathryn Maher (11:05): "We have to defend our editorial integrity and the integrity of those rights."

She also highlighted ongoing discussions with other media leaders, underscoring a collective sense of an existential threat to press freedom.

• Kathryn Maher (12:41): "We're feeling not just the importance of the moment in terms of NPR or another media company, but really sort of the existential moment for what is it that we're doing to serve the American public right now?"

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10. Implications for Free Press and Democracy

The confrontation between NPR and the Trump administration signals a critical moment for media independence in the United States. The lawsuit not only challenges the executive order but also sets a precedent for how public media can defend its right to unbiased reporting against political interference.

• Mary Louise Kelly (09:21): "Free speech, association, freedom of the press. When we see those rights infringed upon, we have an obligation to challenge them."

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11. Conclusion

The episode "NPR Takes Trump to Court" provides a thorough examination of the ongoing struggle between public media and political authority. Through detailed reporting and firsthand accounts from NPR leadership, the podcast underscores the significance of defending editorial independence and the broader implications for democracy and free press in America.

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Notable Quotes:

• James Comer (00:02): "I've lost confidence in public radio. I don't think, Madam Chair, they should get a penny of federal funds."

• Marjorie Taylor Greene (01:00): "From Georgia, the 77 million Americans who voted for President Trump, someone you called a deranged racist sociopath."

• Kathryn Maher (07:58): "NPR is a private organization, and we have the right as a media organization to make our own editorial choices about what it is that we cover and how we cover it."

• David Folkenflik (03:51): "The president is trying to usurp congressional power... This is a violation of NPR's free speech protections in the Constitution."

• Kathryn Maher (12:41): "We're feeling not just the importance of the moment in terms of NPR or another media company, but really sort of the existential moment for what is it that we're doing to serve the American public right now."

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This summary encapsulates the key discussions, arguments, and perspectives presented in the episode, providing a clear and comprehensive overview for listeners and non-listeners alike.

Transcript

[Mary Louise Kelly]

NPR has been in the news lately.

[James Comer]

I've lost confidence in public radio. I don't think, Madam Chair, they should get a penny of federal funds.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

That's Republican Congressman James Comer of Kentucky at a House hearing back in March. The title of that hearing, anti American Airwaves holding the Heads of NPR and PBS Accountable. Npr, of course, is the news outlet that makes this podcast a reminder here about how we cover our own organization. David Folkenflick, our media reporter as as his editors and other journalists like me working on stories about NPR all operate without involvement from corporate officials or news execs. At that March hearing, Republicans accused NPR of a liberal bias and attacked social media posts that NPR CEO Kathryn Maher made before she joined npr.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

Let me inform you that your federal funding is also paid for by the other half of the country.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

That is Republican Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

From Georgia, the 77 million Americans who voted for President Trump, someone you called a deranged racist sociopath.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Maher defended NPR's work. She also expressed regret for those tweets and for some of NPR's past news coverage.

[Kathryn Maher]

I do want to say that NPR acknowledges that we were mistaken in failing to cover the Hunter Biden laptop story more aggressively and sooner.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

And she pointed to new initiatives aimed at ensuring fair journalism. These changes came to the newsroom after one of our senior editors wrote an essay last year alleging liberal bias at npr. He has since resigned. Maher said NPR has sought to beef.

[Kathryn Maher]

Up our editorial practices, bringing in more editors to make sure that we have more points of view reflected in every story.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Throughout the hearing, Republicans called for cutting or eliminating federal funding for public media. Greene was unequivocal.

[Marjorie Taylor Greene]

After listening to what we've heard today, we will be calling for the complete and total defund and dismantling of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Consider this the White House didn't wait for Congress. Trump signed an executive order this month seeking to end federal funding to NPR and pbs. Now NPR and some member stations are suing from npr. Mary I'm Mary Louise Kelly.

[Ann Marie Baldonado]

This is Fresh AIR contributor Ann Marie Baldonado. I talked with actor Cole Escola about their hit Broadway play, O. Mary. Cole plays an unhinged alcoholic Mary Todd Lincoln, who's an aspiring cabaret performer. If that makes no sense, that's part of the point. You can find my interview on the Fresh AIR podcast.

[Tanya Moseley]

I'm Tanya Moseley, co host of Fresh air. At a time of sound bites and short attention spans, our show is all about the deep dive. We do long form interviews with people behind the best in film, books, tv, music and journalism. Here our guests open up about their process and their lives in ways you've never heard before. Listen to the FRESH AIR podcast from NPR and whyy.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

It's Consider this from npr. The lawsuit was filed this morning by NPR and three Colorado Public Radio stations. We're going to start with the details of that suit and what prompted it. And for that I am joined by NPR media correspondent David Folkenflik. Hey, David.

[David Folkenflik]

Hey.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

On what grounds are NPR and these local stations suing?

[David Folkenflik]

So there was this executive order that the president put out on May 1 and then was accompanied by a memo the next day in which essentially he said the coverage on NPR and PBS was biased and that he was acting to ensure that that would not be subsidized by federal taxpayer money. And the accompanying material made clear that he thought they were biased against the right, that they were woke, they were left wing propaganda. Choose any epithet that you are or denigration that you want that's popular these days in his circles. NPR and the stations are making two arguments in the court filings fundamentally. One is that he's trying to the president is trying to usurp congressional power and authority to pass laws to set budgets, to determine where money should be spent and how to even set certain kinds of protections for the corporation for Public Broadcasting and public broadcasters in law, the corporation being how money is funneled to public broadcasters like NPR stations. The second and in some ways more fundamental element is that NPR is arguing this is a violation of NPR's free speech protections in the Constitution, that by grounding his executive order in the accusation of bias, he's saying he doesn't like that speech. Those aren't grounds he can act is their argument.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

I mentioned there are three stations, all Colorado stations, that have joined NPR in this suit. What is their role here?

[David Folkenflik]

So in a sense, they're very representative. Our CEO, Catherine Marr, put out a call and said who'd be interested in joining three stations from Colorado? Each joined one with Colorado Public Radio, effectively a statewide network. One, Aspen Public Radio, reaches predominantly a rural audience. And one, KSUT was founded by the Native American Ute tribe some decades ago, now serves four federally recognized tribes in the Four Corners area of the American Southwest. Each says they have a lot at stake, that federal funding isn't the majority of their funding, but it's a lifeline to help them keep afloat, to get yes, NPR programs, but also do important coverage of news and culture that's vital to their listenership.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

There okay, so this is an effort to make clear what the stakes are for local audiences, local communities. The White House has responded. What is it saying?

[David Folkenflik]

So a spokesperson told me this morning that the president is acting within his lawful authority to ensure the taxpayer dollars don't go towards funding bias. P is not part of this lawsuit, but tells me today it's weighing its options. And interestingly, the Corporation of Public Broadcasting itself, which technically a private corporation, is not suing over this, but has already sued the president over his efforts to fire three of their five board members. They say he doesn't have the authority to do that.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Give us the broader context here. The Trump executive order is part of a broader attack on public media, on media writ large. Where do things stand?

[David Folkenflik]

Well, there's no money that's been frozen yet by the Corporation of Public Broadcasting. They say he just doesn't have the standing or power to do that. We'll see what a judge says. The Federal Communications Commission is investigating the corporate underwriting spots, and there's been, of course, a call from the president's allies in Congress to eliminate all funding for public media. And as. As you say, it's part of a larger, essentially assault on the standing and financial grounding of both public media and the media at large.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

NPR media correspondent David Folkenflik. Thank you, David.

[Tanya Moseley]

You.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Now, as we noted at the top, when NPR is in the news, we report on ourselves as we would any other organization. So we invited NPR President and CEO Catherine Marr to walk downstairs from her office here at headquarters to Studio 31 to take our questions. Katherine, welcome.

[Kathryn Maher]

Lovely to be here.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

In the interest of transparency, I want to note we asked to interview you because you're a stakeholder in this news story. You don't know what I'm about to ask. You had no input into these questions.

[Kathryn Maher]

That's right.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Okay, so to the questions, the lawsuit cites NPR's First Amendment right, quote, to be free from government attempts to control private speech, as well as retaliation aimed at punishing and chilling protected speech. End quote. Can you explain in plain English what that means with the thrust of this lawsuit is.

[Kathryn Maher]

So NPR is a private organization, and we have the right as a media organization to make our own editorial choices about what it is that we cover and how we cover it. And what we found in the executive order was that the order discusses the need to end federal funding based on the accusation that we are not presenting fair, unbiased news. So from our perspective, what that means is that the order implies that NPR needs to change its editorial Posture if we are to receive federal funding. It's very clear from the Public Broadcasting act that public media is meant to be an independent source of information. And in fact, it is protected in the statute that established the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. We believe that this is an infringement on NPR's First Amendment rights, but it is also an infringement on those rights of our station, both their editorial First Amendment rights and their rights to associate with NPR if they are unable to use their funds to choose to air our programming.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

So the argument, as I understand what you're saying, is that npr, like any other news organization in the United States, is free to choose what it covers, how it covers it, what language we use to do so.

[Kathryn Maher]

That's correct. And even though we receive federal funding, we are still protected by those same rights.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

There's a line that jumped out at me that I marked in the lawsuit, and I'll quote it. It is not always obvious when the government has acted with a retaliatory purp in violation of the First Amendment, but this wolf comes as a wolf.

[Kathryn Maher]

Antonin Scalia. That's a great line.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

The late conservative Supreme Court Justice Scalia. What does it mean here?

[Kathryn Maher]

In this instance, it is evident from the President's executive order, as well as statements released by the White House and prior statements by the President, that we are being punished for our editorial choices.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

What about pbs? Because the executive order targeted funding to NPR and pbs. Why is PBS not so suing alongside npr?

[Kathryn Maher]

Well, PBS is a separate organization. We know from their statement when the executive order came out that they similarly find this order to be unlawful.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Do you worry about further retaliation? We're witnessing with Harvard what happens when an institution decides to stand up and fight back.

[Kathryn Maher]

We definitely thought about what the consequences might be when we move forward to file the suit. And I should say that we are not choosing to do this out of politics. We are choosing to do this as a matter of necessity and principle. All of our that we enjoy in this democracy flow from the First Amendment. Freedom of speech, association, freedom of the press. When we see those rights infringed upon, we have an obligation to challenge them. And that's what's at stake here. Retaliation is something we all think about, and yet the principle of what we do and how we do it, we have to defend our editorial integrity and the integrity of those rights.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

For people listening, will NPR sound any different as this plays out?

[Kathryn Maher]

No, I don't believe so. The entire point of going forward with this litigation is to protect our editorial independence. And as you started this segment by saying there is a firewall between the newsroom and management such as myself. I believe that the way that we do our work and the way that we are successful is by pursuing journalism that is excellent. And so I don't think we'll sound different. I think we'll sound exactly as we are, fair, responsible, nonpartisan, and seeking the facts.

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Last thing, Catherine Marr, the backdrop here is, of course, bigger than npr. It's bigger than public broadcasting. We are witnessing a wider assault by the Trump administration on a free press. Are you speaking with leaders of other news organizations about how to navigate this moment? Are you getting support from other news organizations?

[Kathryn Maher]

Yeah, I've had a number of conversations with leaders of larger media organizations even than npr, and I do believe that many of us feel as though this is a very difficult moment for this profession, also a difficult moment for our role as the press in democracy. And I think that that is the, you know, without sounding grandiose, I think that's what animates many people who step into newsroom roles, leadership roles at media organizations. And so we're feeling not just the importance of the moment in terms of oper of an NPR or another media company, but really sort of the existential moment for what is it that we're doing to serve the American public right now?

[Mary Louise Kelly]

Thank you. Thank you. That's Catherine Marr, NPR's CEO and president. And NPR did reach out to the White House for comment on the lawsuit. Here is what we heard back today from White House spokesperson Harrison Fields. The Corporation for Public Broadcasting CPB, is creating media to support a particular political party on the taxpayer's dime. The president is exercising his lawful authority to limit funding to NPR and PBS. Mr. Fields continues, quote, the president was elected with a mandate to ensure efficient use of taxpayer dollars, and he will continue to use his lawful authority to achieve that objective. This episode was produced by Matt Ozug and Connor Donovan. It was edited by Patrick Jaran Watanaunan, Courtney Dorning, Emily Copper and Vicki Walton James. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun. It's consider this from npr. I'm Mary Louise Kelly.

[Harrison Fields]

Shortwave thinks of science as an invisible force showing up in your everyday life, powering the food you eat, the medicine you use, the tech in your pocket. Science is approachable because it's already part of your life. Come explore these connections on the Shortwave podcast from npr.

[James Comer]

Imagine, if you will, a show from NPR that's not like npr, a show that focuses not on the important, but the stupid, which features stories about people smuggling animals in their pants, incompetent criminals and ridiculous science studies and call it Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me because the good names were taken. Listen to NPR's Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me. Yes, that is what it is called. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kathryn Maher]

Want to.

[David Folkenflik]

Hear this podcast without sponsor breaks?

[Kathryn Maher]

Amazon prime members can listen to Consider this sponsor free through Amazon Music.