Over tea, a deal with Damascus and a possible turning point for Middle East diplomacy

Summary

Consider This from NPR

Episode: Over tea, a deal with Damascus and a possible turning point for Middle East diplomacy
Release Date: May 18, 2025
Host: Scott Detrow
Co-Host: Tanya Moseley

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Introduction: U.S. Presidential International Visits

In this episode, Scott Detrow and Tanya Moseley delve into President Donald Trump's pivotal visit to the Middle East, marking a significant shift in U.S. diplomacy in the region. Breaking with a 50-year tradition where U.S. presidents typically initiate their first international trips to Canada, Mexico, or the United Kingdom, Trump chose Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, setting the stage for high-stakes negotiations and strategic alliances.

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Trump's Middle East Diplomacy: Deals and Sanctions

Timestamp: [00:23]
Scott Detrow outlines the breadth of Trump's diplomatic engagements during his trip:

• Saudi Arabia agreed to invest a staggering $600 billion in the United States.
• Qatar placed a substantial order for Boeing passenger jets.
• UAE committed to a $200 billion deal with the U.S.

While these figures highlight ambitious business ventures, the specifics remain somewhat unclear. However, the most groundbreaking development emerged from Trump’s unexpected diplomatic maneuver regarding Syria.

Timestamp: [02:40]
Trump announced his intention to lift sanctions on Syria, a move that had been pending for over two decades. "The US will lift sanctions on Syria following the fall of the Assad regime late last year," Trump declared, receiving a standing ovation and sparking celebrations in Damascus. Despite this optimistic portrayal, the final decision rests with Congress.

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Historic Meeting Over Tea: U.S. and Syrian Leaders Engage

Timestamp: [04:02]
For the first time in 25 years, U.S. and Syrian leaders met in Damascus:

• Interim Syrian President Ahmed Al Shara and President Donald Trump discussed lifting sanctions and the potential normalization of relations with Israel.
• Trump emphasized three main objectives: the removal of foreign terrorists from Syria, combating ISIS resurgence, and diplomatic recognition of Israel.

Timestamp: [04:38]
Tanya Moseley highlights the significance of this meeting:
"President Ahmed Al Shara is a man who once had a $10 million bounty on his head... shaking his hand is just remarkable."

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Implications for Syria

Timestamp: [05:10]
The potential lifting of sanctions could be transformative for Syria, enabling reconstruction and economic recovery. Tanya describes the dire conditions in Damascus post-Assad, noting crumbling infrastructure and economic hardships. Al Shara now faces the challenge of stabilizing Syria and fostering regional peace.

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Israeli Response and Regional Reactions

Timestamp: [06:06]
In Israel, the response to Trump's announcements was mixed:

• Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reportedly urged Trump against lifting sanctions.
• Despite ongoing military actions in Syria, including the seizure and bombing of Syrian territories, Syrian officials expressed a desire for peace and normalization with Israel.

Timestamp: [07:44]
The conversation shifts to the Abraham Accords, which normalized relations between Israel and several Arab nations. The inclusion of Syria in these accords would be historic, but experts caution that substantial conditions must be met.

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Expert Insights: Feasibility and Future Prospects

Timestamp: [08:19]
Abdullah Al Ghadawi, a Syrian analyst, suggests that while the political will exists within Syria, significant challenges remain:

• Economic stabilization is crucial before normalization can proceed.
• Security concerns and regional dynamics must be addressed to facilitate lasting peace.

Timestamp: [10:00]
Thomas Warrick from the Atlantic Council emphasizes that Trump's actions are deeply personal and tied to his legacy. The potential for receiving a Nobel Prize for peacemaking underscores the high stakes involved.

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Conclusion: A Possible Turning Point?

The episode concludes by weighing the potential impacts of Trump's diplomatic efforts:

• Normalization with Syria could lead to enhanced regional stability and economic growth.
• The success of these initiatives hinges on Congressional approval and Syria's ability to meet critical conditions.
• The meeting between Trump and Al Shara symbolizes a possible new era in Middle East diplomacy, though skeptics remain cautious about the promises made.

Timestamp: [10:47]
Tanya Moseley reflects on Trump's ambitions:
"He really wants [the Nobel Prize]."

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Notable Quotes

• Scott Detrow ([00:00]): "Over the past half century, US Presidents have made their first international visits to one of three countries Canada, Mexico or the United Kingdom."
• Tanya Moseley ([04:38]): "President Ahmed Al Shara is a man who once had a $10 million bounty on his head."
• Thomas Warrick ([10:15]): "All of this was very much on Trump."

---

Production Credits

• Produced by: Avery Keatley
• Edited by: Carrie Khan and Sarah Robbins
• Executive Producer: Sammy Yenigit

---

This episode of Consider This provides a comprehensive exploration of a potentially transformative moment in Middle Eastern diplomacy, highlighting the complexities and high aspirations of U.S. foreign policy under President Trump.

Transcript

[Scott Detrow]

Over the past half century, US Presidents have made their first international visits to one of three countries Canada, Mexico or the United Kingdom, traveled to London with President Carter this past weekend and met with his counterpart in the British government.

[Tanya Moseley]

President George W. Bush met with Mexico's President Vicente Foxx at the Mexican president's ranch last week.

[Scott Detrow]

We are welcoming a new day in.

[Tanya Moseley]

The relationship between America and Mexico.

[Scott Detrow]

The visit to Ottawa was Mr. Obama's first foreign trip as president. As neighbors, we are so closely linked that sometimes we may have a tendency to take our relationship for granted. Only one president in the past 50 years has broken with that tradition. President Trump is in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. This is the first stop on his first trip overseas as president. In 2017, President Trump made Saudi Arabia his first international trip, and he followed suit this year on his first major diplomatic swing of his second term. This past week, Trump met with leaders in Saudi Arabia, Qatar and the uae. His arrival was greeted with fanfare across the region. There were motorcades featuring Teslas, long processions of Arabian horses and camels, traditional dances and musical performances. During Trump's first visit as president in 2017, his focus was mostly on religious tension in the region, but between Israel and its Muslim majority neighbors. But this time it was all business. According to the White House, Saudi Arabia agreed to invest $600 billion in the United States. Qatar placed a huge order for Boeing passenger jets, and the White house says the UAE agreed to a $200 billion deal with the U.S. though the figures and the finer details of all of these deals are still murky. But the biggest announcement of Trump's trip was a bit of surprise deal making. I will be ordering the cessation of sanctions against SY in order to give them a chance at greatness after more than 20 years. Trump said the US will lift sanctions on Syria following the fall of the Assad regime late last year. The announcement earned him a standing ovation, and Syrians celebrated in the streets of Damascus, though it's Congress that would have final say on whether or not those sanctions are actually lifted. Trump also met with interim Syrian President Ahmed Al Shara. According to Trump, both parties signaled their willingness not only for peace between Israel and Syria, but for normalization between the two neighbors who have warred on and off for decades. Consider this President Trump's trip to the Middle east was full of glitz, glam, high stakes business deals and surprising diplomatic moves. Could this moment be a critical turning point for Middle east peace? And can Trump actually deliver on all of these promises? From npr I'M Scott Detrow.

[Tanya Moseley]

I'm Tanya Moseley, co host of FRESH air. At a time of sound bites and short attention spans, our show is all about the deep dive. We do long form interviews with people behind the best in film, books, tv, music and journalism. Here, our guests open up about their process and their lives in ways you've never heard before. Listen to the FRESH AIR podcast from NPR and whyy. Conductor Robert Franz says a good melody.

[Scott Detrow]

Captures our attention and that it moves you through time.

[Tanya Moseley]

Music is architecture in time. If you engage in the moment with what you're listening to, you do lose a sense of of the time around.

[Scott Detrow]

You, how we experience time.

[Tanya Moseley]

That's on the TED radio hour from NPR.

[Scott Detrow]

It's consider this from NPR. Last week, for the first time in 25 years, the leaders of the United States and Syria met over tea. Interim Syrian President Schirra and President Trump talked about his announcement that America would soon lift sanctions. They also discussed the possibility that Syria could recognize Israel as a sovereign state. But how did this all go down in Israel, the other side of the peace equation? NPR's Hadil Al Shalji is in Tel Aviv and joins us now to explain. Thanks for joining us. Of course, this was a surprise meeting. It was on the sidelines of Trump's trip. What all happened?

[Tanya Moseley]

So, Scott, can we actually just take a minute? First, President Ahmed Al Shadra is a man who once had a $10 million bounty on his head. You the US used to say that this guy was a terrorist, and now the president of the United States is shaking his hand. So that this meeting even happened is just remarkable. So when they met, the White House said that Trump urged Shaft to do three main things, get rid of all, quote, foreign terrorists from Syria, help the US Stamp out any resurgence of isis, and to diplomatically recognize Israel. And after that, Trump announced that he vowed to lift the sanctions.

[Scott Detrow]

I mean, like we said before, that would ultimately come down to Congress. But still, it's a remarkable statement from an American president. If they were lifting, lifted, what exactly would that mean for Syria?

[Tanya Moseley]

I mean, Syria could just start to rebuild again. You know, those sanctions were seriously crippling and lasted more than two decades. And you know, when I drove into Damascus a couple of days after Assad fell in December, I could really see the effects of the sanctions. The buildings are falling apart. So many cars are ancient because parts are unavailable. You know, we'd pay for coffee with these huge wads of cash because the currency meant nothing. So getting sanctions lifted was a huge win for Shara and one thing off his to do list, he has to prove to the world that his fighting days are over and that he can make Syria a stable part of the region. And that means also making peace with its neighbor, Israel.

[Scott Detrow]

And Israel is a country that is deeply invested in this as well. How is the response in Israel to these statements from Trump?

[Tanya Moseley]

Well, Israel was kind of stunned when they heard that Trump vowed to lift the sanctions. Israeli media was reporting that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was urging Trump not to. You see, Israel's line all along has been that shout out and his people are terrorists and that Israel must defend itself from them. Immediately after the fall of Assad in December, Israeli forces seized a buffer zone between the two countries that was set up in 1974. And then it also was bombing hundreds of military targets inside Syria. Lately, Israel has also been expanding past that buffer zone further into Syria and continuing its bombing campaign in and around Damascus. But, you know, with all of that, Syria is still saying it wants peace with Israel. Shada has said it publicly many times. And, you know, just this past Wednesday, Syrian official spokesperson Ali Rifa. I spoke to Khan News, Israel's public media network. Now, first of all, just the fact that a Syrian government official spoke to Israeli media is incredible. You know, it would have been unthinkable just six months ago. But if I said that Israel should retreat from Syrian territory and the buffer zone, but. But that it's ready for peace.

[Scott Detrow]

Well, when we talk about things that, that President Trump is promising, it's important to put in the context that over the past decade, there have been so many big promises that would be groundbreaking that just never materialized. But still, what he's talking about in this meeting is a really big deal. He's talking about full normalization here.

[Tanya Moseley]

I mean. Yeah, exactly. I mean, Trump said he told Shara in the meeting, I hope you'll join the Abraham Accords when Syria is ready. And according to Trump, Shera replied, yes. Now, it's one thing, like you said, to make peace, but to go full blown normal with Israel and sign these accords, that would make some serious history.

[Scott Detrow]

Can you step back and remind us of what the Abraham Accords are?

[Tanya Moseley]

Sure. So the Abraham Accords are these bilateral agreements normalizing relations between Arab countries and Israel, and they're all mediated by the United States. So far, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Sudan and Morocco have all signed the agreements. And Saudi Arabia is close to being the fifth under the agreement. They all recognize Israel as a sovereign nation. There are diplomatic ties, flights between the countries and, of course, these major business deals.

[Scott Detrow]

How likely do you think this is to happen? What needs to happen between now and these big steps, given the long history between Syria and Israel?

[Tanya Moseley]

Yeah, I mean, all of this is really just talk right now. It's remarkable talk, but it's talk. And if it was going to happen, Syria would have conditions. First, a big one is for Israel to retreat from Syrian land. They'll also want to discuss Gaza and the possibility of a Palestinian state. Abdullah Al Ghadawi is a Syrian analyst and journalist. He says at least the political will for Syria to sign the Abraham Accords is there. So Ghadawi says, first Syria has to prove itself and create the stable economy. Then the government can move forward with such a monumental move, like normalizing ties with Israel. So if this is going to happen, it's going to take a long time.

[Scott Detrow]

I mean, Israel, it seems like, would really benefit from this. Is the country saying it's on board?

[Tanya Moseley]

Well, on peace with Syria? Officially, there's no comment yet from Israel, but Shara did confirm that there have been indirect media mediated talks with Israel recently to discuss security. You know, there are members in the Israeli cabinet who still see Shara as a terrorist, but there are others who are being more pragmatic. You know, they say we're entering this new era of the Middle East. You know, Saudi Arabia possibly normalizing with Israel, the fall of the Assad regime. So, and they also lately have been feeling like they've been sidelined by Trump and they want back in. And so many say that this could be a way to do that. Also, peace between the two countries would mean Israel could secure its border against a once sworn enemy and perhaps avoid another attack on its land, like on October 7, 2023. It would also mean that the route of weapons from Iran to Hezbollah through Syria would be cut off.

[Scott Detrow]

I mean, that that would be quite a different Middle East. Is it fair to say that this meeting between Trump and Shira kick started all of this?

[Tanya Moseley]

I mean, look, there are all these lucrative deals, weapons sales and contracts, but, you know, for Trump, it's also about his legacy. I spoke to Middle east scholar Thomas Warrick from the Atlantic council in Washington, D.C. and he said all of this was very much on Trump.

[Scott Detrow]

The leaders who made peace between Israel and Egypt won the Nobel Prize. Everyone realizes the Nobel Committee would undoubtedly recognize the leaders who made peace between Israel and Syria. So this is very much in the cards.

[Tanya Moseley]

So, look, yes, it's all talk right now, but Trump has long been obsessed with winning this Nobel Prize. You know, he even brought it up last February when he told Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in the Oval Office that he deserved it.

[Scott Detrow]

I feel like I remember during one of his campaigns, crowds chanting no bell. No bell during his rallies. It's been something that's long in his mind.

[Tanya Moseley]

He really wants it.

[Scott Detrow]

That was NPR's Hadil Al Shalchi in Tel Aviv. Thank you so much.

[Tanya Moseley]

You're welcome.

[Scott Detrow]

This episode was produced by Avery Keatley. It was edited by Carrie Khan and Sarah Robbins. Our executive producer is Sammy Yenigit. It's considered this from npr. I'm Scott Detrow.

[Tanya Moseley]

Politics is a lot these days. I'm Sarah McCammon, a co host of the NPR Politics Podcast. And I'll be the first to tell you, what happens in Washington definitely demands some decoding. That's why our show makes politics as easy as possible to wrap your head around. Join us as we make politics make sense on the NPR Politics podcast, available wherever you get your podcasts.

[Scott Detrow]

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[Scott Detrow]

So you know, listen to the Planet Money podcast from npr. Want to hear this podcast without sponsor breaks? Amazon prime members can listen to Consider this sponsor free through Amazon Music, or you can also support NPR's vital journalism and get consider this [e-mail] that's plus.NPR.org.