President Trump is fighting homelessness. Some worry his approach hurts veterans.

Summary

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Consider This from NPR

Episode: President Trump is fighting homelessness. Some worry his approach hurts veterans.

Air Date: June 17, 2026

Host: Scott Detrow

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Overview

This episode examines the Trump administration's controversial approach to homelessness, particularly as it relates to U.S. military veterans. President Trump has signed an executive order implementing sweeping changes that shift away from the previously popular "Housing First" model, instead favoring increased institutionalization and possible involuntary guardianships for homeless individuals—including veterans. The episode follows outreach workers on the ground in Long Beach, California, and features reactions and concerns from veteran advocates as well as government officials.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Scope of Homelessness Among Veterans

• Nearly 750,000 people are homeless in the United States, including over 30,000 veterans—though the number has declined in the past decade.
  • [00:00, 02:22]
• The administration’s goal: decrease those numbers dramatically via executive action.

2. Policy Shift: From Housing First to Institutional Care

• Prior policies emphasized "Housing First"—prioritizing stable housing before addressing other challenges.
  • "The new policy reverses putting people in housing first." – Mike Townsend, [00:23]
• President Trump's executive order leans toward placing unhoused individuals, including veterans, in institutional care—potentially against their will.
  • [00:34, 05:19]

3. Veterans’ Advocates: Building Trust Not Coercion

• Outreach workers emphasize relationship-building over forced treatment:
  • “Rather than make it something traumatic where we're forcing you into it, let outreach workers like us build the relationship.” – Pedro Harigi, [00:46]
• Building trust can take months or even years, but is critical to helping veterans transition off the street.
  • “We build relationships and then we use whatever we can to get the veteran the help he needs.” – Pedro Harigi, [05:05]

4. On-the-Ground: Long Beach Outreach Ride-Along

• Reported by Quill Lawrence, the episode documents the challenges and successes of direct outreach.
• Veronica Hood and Pedro Harigi, both veterans and US Vets outreach workers, search for Curtis Irvin, an 87-year-old Navy veteran living in his truck:
  • “We're looking for an 87 year old vet living in his truck. What's your guess about how long he's been on the street?” – Quill Lawrence, [03:55]
  • “I think it's been at least 20 years... after he got his divorce and he lost his housing, it's just not been consistent housing since then.” – Pedro Harigi, [04:06]
• They discuss the barriers veterans face—pride, fear of being a burden, distrust of the system:
  • “I think he might think he'd be a burden on people. So he really just wants to do it on his own.” – Veronica Hood, [04:40]

5. Curtis Irvin’s Story

• Curtis Irvin, Navy veteran, recounts his life living in his truck and bouncing between hospitals:
  • “Right now I’m in the truck for the last two, three years. I’ve been dancing from hospital to hospital because I hurt my back and my hip. And I finally got out because they tried to keep me.” – Curtis Irvin, [08:26]
• Rapport with outreach workers leads him to agree to seek help:
  • “And tomorrow she's gonna follow me, you’re gonna follow in the truck, and you guys are gonna meet me at the welcome center. We're gonna park it there, and you're gonna go to the hospital.” – Veronica Hood, [08:56]
• Update: Curtis keeps his word, comes in the next day, and is finally in housing after years unsheltered.
  • “I called to ask, and Curtis Ervin came in the next day, and he's now in housing for the first time in who knows how many years.” – Quill Lawrence, [09:55]

6. Controversy Over Involuntary Guardianships & Safe Harbor Proposal

• NPR obtained a leaked proposal, Safe Harbor, which would allow for institutionalization of homeless veterans with limited capacity.
  • [05:19]
• VA Secretary Doug Collins denies that the VA intends to forcibly institutionalize homeless veterans, saying the DOJ agreement only concerns veterans in hospitals without representation:
  • “I wanted to puke. I’ve got veterans who are sitting in hospitals who can’t make competent choices for themselves to get better care in the next level care. We’re helping them do that.” – Doug Collins, [06:43]
• Representative Mark Takano and advocates dispute this, citing cases where VA seeks to put homeless vets under guardianship and fears over loss of rights.
  • [07:09]

7. Advocates’ Caution Against Coercion

• Both veterans and advocates point out the trauma and risks of forced treatment:
  • “As you saw with Irvin, it could be both beneficial or it could be extremely traumatic,” – Veronica Hood, [09:37]
  • “Rather than make it something traumatic where we're forcing you into it, let outreach workers like us build the relationship. Now he's saying, yeah, I'm gonna meet you guys tomorrow and we're gonna go.” – Pedro Harigi, [09:44]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Policy Shift:

  • “The new policy reverses putting people in housing first.” – Mike Townsend, [00:23]

• On Building Trust:

  • “We build relationships and then we use whatever we can to get the veteran the help he needs.” – Pedro Harigi, [05:05]

• Doug Collins’ Strong Reaction to Criticism:

  • “When it came out that we were attacking homeless and going after homeless, I wanted to puke.” – Doug Collins, [06:43]

• Curtis Irvin’s Humor About His Beard:

  • “If I get rid of this beard I… I never want a beard this long, but it keeps the young women away from me.” – Curtis Irvin, [08:08]

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Important Timestamps

• 00:00–00:46: Introduction & scope of homelessness among veterans
• 02:22–06:02: Field report with outreach workers in Long Beach, CA
• 05:19–07:27: Details on Trump’s executive order, Safe Harbor proposal, and reactions
• 07:32–09:14: Conversation with Curtis Irvin & agreed plan to seek help
• 09:26–09:55: Reflections on balancing support with veterans’ autonomy; Irvin’s success story

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Episode Takeaways

• Trump’s new executive order is a radical departure from recent federal policy, raising alarm among advocates about veterans’ rights and potential trauma from forced treatment.
• On-the-ground outreach, patience, and relationship-building remain crucial to ending veteran homelessness—countering the notion that coercion is effective.
• The episode spotlights both the vulnerability and resilience of veterans like Curtis Irvin and the deep care outreach workers provide. The story underscores the importance of autonomy in care, echoing advocates’ opposition to forced institutionalization.

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Transcript

[Scott Detrow]

It's consider this, where every day we go deep on one big news story today, how the Trump administration is addressing homelessness among veterans. Nearly 750,000 people are homeless in the United States, including more than 30,000 military veterans. That's according to the most recent government data. President Trump wants to see those numbers come down and signed an executive order to make that happen.

[Mike Townsend]

The Trump administration is changing federal policy when it comes to handling people who are homeless and living on the streets or in encampments. The new policy reverses putting people in housing first.

[Scott Detrow]

Trump's approach favors placing homeless veterans under involuntary or institutional care, like a guardianship, against their will. But advocates for homeless vets worry what that could mean for the people they serve.

[Pedro Harigi]

Rather than make it something traumatic where we're forcing you into it, let outreach workers like us build the relationship.

[Scott Detrow]

Consider this the Trump administration issued an aggressive executive order targeting homeless people. Advocates fear what that will mean for homeless veterans. From npr, I'm Scott Detrow.

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[Quill Lawrence]

This is Eric Glass on this American Life. One thing we like is a good mystery sometimes about really big things.

[Scott Detrow]

But most times the little mysteries are the best.

[Quill Lawrence]

Our lost and found is currently filled with pants.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

I don't know.

[Scott Detrow]

I've never seen this happen.

[Veronica Hood]

This is true.

[Scott Detrow]

This is true. Mysteries of every size each week.

[Quill Lawrence]

This American Life. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Veronica Hood]

Foreign.

[Scott Detrow]

It's consider this from NPR. More than 30,000 U.S. military veterans are homeless, though that number has gone down in the past decade, according to the latest government data. The Trump administration has promised new housing for vets. But President Trump also issued an executive order that aggressively targets homeless people, and veterans advocates fear that includes vets appears. Quill Lawrence rode along with some street outreach workers in Long Beach, California, and sent us this report.

[Quill Lawrence]

Veronica Hood with the group US Vets is loading up with hygiene kits and some hot meals, key tools for doing outreach to homeless vets.

[Veronica Hood]

I'm so sorry.

[Quill Lawrence]

The truck stereo starts blaring.

[Veronica Hood]

My Phone automatically connects.

[Quill Lawrence]

Yeah, yeah.

[Veronica Hood]

Wow.

[Quill Lawrence]

Old school. Flock of Seagulls.

[Veronica Hood]

Pedro's like, turn this off.

[Quill Lawrence]

Make it stop. That's Pedro Harigi, her partner today.

[Pedro Harigi]

My name is Pedro Harigi. I serve two tours in Iraq.

[Quill Lawrence]

They're both veterans with years of military service between them and at this point, about as many years doing street outreach.

[Veronica Hood]

So the first veteran we're gonna go meet, his name is Curtis.

[Pedro Harigi]

Curtis.

[Quill Lawrence]

And they have a formula, a list of known homeless vets by name and a philosophy called Housing first, which where they try to get the vet indoors and then after that tackle whatever other problems he or she has.

[Veronica Hood]

And without sharing too much information. That's his first name. 87 year old man.

[Doug Collins]

Yep.

[Veronica Hood]

Navy veteran.

[Quill Lawrence]

Okay. And 87, wow.

[Veronica Hood]

Yes.

[Quill Lawrence]

You heard that right. We're looking for an 87 year old vet living in his truck. What's your guess about how long he's been on the street?

[Veronica Hood]

It's hard to say. Cause he gives us different dates.

[Pedro Harigi]

Yeah, I think it's been at least 20 years. I don't think. I think that after he got his divorce and he lost his housing, it's just not been consistent housing since then.

[Quill Lawrence]

What's he driving around?

[Veronica Hood]

It's a Dodge truck, maroon color. I can't. I don't know. That's where he sleeps or that's his whole livelihood. He switches around. So we might have to search for him a bit.

[Quill Lawrence]

Us vets, the group they work with has a bed lined up for him. And it doesn't sound hard, right, to convince an 87 year old man that even temporary housing is better than living in his truck. But he's reluctant.

[Veronica Hood]

I think he might think he'd be a burden on people. So he really just wants to do it on his own.

[Pedro Harigi]

And what, proud man or vet wants to be a burden on anybody? Right.

[Quill Lawrence]

Hari and Hood say it can take months or a year of dropping by with coffee or a hot meal to get from hostility to. To the trust that will lure a veteran off the street. So you guys are like these experts in convincing people to let you.

[Pedro Harigi]

Yes, we're experts in building relationships. We build relationships and then we use whatever we can to get the veteran the help he needs.

[Veronica Hood]

You know, it's the same thing, like how I would want Pedro to be treated. I'm sure how he would want me to be treated.

[Quill Lawrence]

And here's the issue that they're talking around. Maybe to avoid the politics. President Trump made an executive order last year titled Ending Crime and Disorder on America's Streets. It leans heavily toward institutionalizing homeless people against their will. This winter, NPR obtained a proposal following up on the executive order that would include veterans in that plan. It's called Safe harbor. Then in March, the VA put out a memorandum of understanding with the Justice Department about state court guardianships for veterans.

[Doug Collins]

We have veterans, not homeless, just veterans who are in our facilities. They have no family.

[Quill Lawrence]

That's VA Secretary Doug Collins speaking at the National Coalition for Homeless Veterans annual conference last month.

[Doug Collins]

They have no representation and they really are not in a position to actually take, make competent choices for their own health care.

[Quill Lawrence]

Collins rejected the idea that VA is going to start bringing homeless veterans into treatment against their will. He said the deal with the DOJ is just for vets stranded in VA hospitals.

[Doug Collins]

The court will find somebody in the community, not a VA employee, not a VA attorney, will then represent that veteran with respect to their medical well being, moving them along, getting the health care that they need.

[Quill Lawrence]

Collins says Safe harbor, still just a proposal was leaked. And he accused the lead Democrat on the House Veterans Affairs Committee, Mark Takano, of distorting it.

[Doug Collins]

And somebody in our building leaked it to the Hill. And guess what? Representative Decano happily put out information. It wasn't correct, but when it came out that we were attacking homeless and going after homeless, I wanted to puke. I've got veterans who are sitting in hospitals who can't make competent choices for themselves to get better care in the next level care. We're helping them do that. The attorney general agreed with us on this.

[Quill Lawrence]

Takano told NPR he doesn't believe the VA secretary's claim that safe harbor is just a proposal. Takano says his staff have compiled lists of cases where VA is asking courts to put homeless veterans under guardianship and strip them of their rights. Several veterans advocate groups have expressed similar concerns.

[Veronica Hood]

Well, are you guys ready?

[Curtis Irvin]

Yeah.

[Veronica Hood]

Okay. I'm going to ask him if it's okay.

[Quill Lawrence]

Back in Long beach, our two outreach workers have found Curtis Irvin. He's sitting in his pickup, which is pretty full of stuff. He's got a beard gone mostly white and hair sticking out under a worn Oakland Raiders cap. He's happy to see them.

[Curtis Irvin]

I was in engineering.

[Quill Lawrence]

Irvin served in the Navy just after the Korean War.

[Curtis Irvin]

I was an Engine 1 diesel mechanic on the ship. That means you. Everything in engineering.

[Quill Lawrence]

What ship were you on?

[Curtis Irvin]

The last ship I was aboard was USS Bainbridge, nuclear powered destroyer.

[Quill Lawrence]

Wow. So what year were you born?

[Curtis Irvin]

1938.

[Quill Lawrence]

My goodness, you look good.

[Curtis Irvin]

I've been trying. Wow. And if I get rid of this beard I. I keep telling myself I want to be better because I never want a beard this long, but it keep the young women away from me.

[Quill Lawrence]

Well, that's. That's the main purpose of a beard.

[Curtis Irvin]

Yeah.

[Quill Lawrence]

Do you mostly stay in your truck?

[Curtis Irvin]

Right now I'm in the truck for the last two, three years. I've been dancing from hospital to hospital because I hurt my back and my hip. And I finally got out because they tried to keep me.

[Quill Lawrence]

He says he's been bouncing between hospitals for years, that and his truck. And he honestly can't remember the last time he had a home. But Veronica Hood seems to have built a rapport. And Irvin says he'll be here tomorrow to go with her to the hospital and then get a roof over his head.

[Veronica Hood]

Okay. And tomorrow she's gonna follow me, you're gonna follow in the truck, and you guys are gonna meet me at the welcome center. We're gonna park it there, and you're gonna go to the hospital.

[Curtis Irvin]

Okay. Sound good?

[Veronica Hood]

Okay, I'll see you tomorrow.

[Curtis Irvin]

Okay. Right here, right here.

[It's Been a Minute Podcast Announcer]

Okay.

[Quill Lawrence]

Hey, it was great to meet you.

[Veronica Hood]

All right.

[Quill Lawrence]

Good luck tomorrow.

[Curtis Irvin]

Okay.

[Quill Lawrence]

All right. See you later. Thank you.

[Scott Detrow]

Wow.

[Veronica Hood]

That's.

[Pedro Harigi]

He's. He's been homeless for a long time, but he's new to this area, right?

[Quill Lawrence]

Oh, yeah. Driving back. Hood and Harigi say they know some homeless people are a danger to themselves and maybe others. But for the most part, they wouldn't want to see vets forced into treatment.

[Veronica Hood]

As you saw with urban, it could be both beneficial or it could be extremely traumatic,

[Pedro Harigi]

rather than make it something traumatic where we're forced to forcing you into it. Let outreach workers like us build the relationship. Now he's saying, yeah, I'm gonna meet you guys tomorrow and we're gonna go.

[Quill Lawrence]

I called to ask, and Curtis Ervin came in the next day, and he's now in housing for the first time in who knows how many years. Quill Lawrence, NPR News, Long Beach, California.

[Scott Detrow]

This episode was produced by Tyler Bartlem and Katherine Fink. It was edited by Andrew Sussman and Tinbit Armyas. Our interim executive producer is Courtney Dornick. It's Consider this from npr. I'm Scott Detrow.

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[Pedro Harigi]

Who?

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