Reporting on abuse by federal judges means cracking open a culture of fear

Summary

Summary of "Reporting on abuse by federal judges means cracking open a culture of fear" – Consider This from NPR

Release Date: June 7, 2025

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of NPR's Consider This, host Scott Detrow delves into the intricate and often concealed world of the federal judiciary. The episode, titled "Reporting on abuse by federal judges means cracking open a culture of fear," spotlights journalist Carrie Johnson's investigative reporting on the power dynamics and abuses within federal courts. Through in-depth discussions and poignant storytelling, the episode sheds light on the pervasive issues of harassment, bullying, and discrimination faced by law clerks under the authority of federal judges.

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Carrie Johnson and Her Investigation

Carrie Johnson's Expertise Carrie Johnson is a seasoned journalist with an extensive background in covering the American justice system. Her career spans roles at the Legal Times (1996), the Washington Post (a decade), and 15 years as NPR's justice correspondent. Despite her experience, Johnson acknowledges the challenges in exposing the closed and insular nature of the federal judiciary.

"I've been doing this a long time, and these conversations are among the most sensitive I've ever had."
— Carrie Johnson [00:23]

Focus of the Investigation Over the past year and a half, Johnson has been investigating the intricate power dynamics between federal judges and their staff, with a particular emphasis on law clerks. Her research uncovers how judges wield significant control over clerks' professional and personal lives, creating an environment ripe for abuse.

"These judges are basically in control of the clerks' lives... they're supposed to be like lifelong mentors... That's the best of times."
— Carrie Johnson [00:35]

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Findings: Abuses and Culture of Fear

Types of Abuse Reported Johnson's investigation reveals a troubling pattern of misconduct among federal judges, including harassment, bullying, sexual harassment, discrimination, and racially insensitive remarks. One law clerk from Alaska describes an environment where judges are omnipresent forces in their professional lives.

"The judge was the HR Department. The judge was my boss. The judge was a colleague. The judge was everything. He had all the power."
— Carrie Johnson [01:11]

Escalation to Sexual Harassment A former law clerk recounts how inappropriate behavior from a judge quickly escalated into sexual harassment and assault, highlighting the severe nature of the abuses.

"It started immediately, the inappropriate conversations... about the judge's personal relationships, about sexual relationships."
— Carrie Johnson [01:21]

Widespread Secrecy and Fear Despite over 50 current and former law clerks participating in interviews, the majority expressed fear and reluctance to speak out publicly. The pervasive culture of secrecy within federal courts significantly deters whistleblowers from reporting misconduct.

"The overwhelming majority of people with whom I spoke said, I need to be off the record. I'm so afraid."
— Carrie Johnson [02:04]

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Challenges in Reporting: Using Anonymous Sources and Voice Actors

Difficulty in Securing On-Record Interviews Johnson faced immense challenges in getting sources to speak on the record due to the fear of retaliation and the potential impact on their careers. Most participants preferred to remain anonymous, making it difficult to publish their testimonies openly.

"Do you want to talk on background?... Do you want to be totally off the record?... The overwhelming majority... I'm so afraid."
— Carrie Johnson [05:15]

Innovative Use of Voice Actors To authentically convey the experiences of the victims while protecting their identities, Johnson employed voice actors to replicate the stories verbatim. This approach allowed the emotional weight and gravity of the testimonies to be shared without compromising the safety of the sources.

"We used voice actors to basically say the same words verbatim with a sense of the emotion... what they experienced."
— Carrie Johnson [09:20]

Impact of This Approach This method not only preserved the anonymity of the victims but also resonated with others, encouraging more individuals to come forward and share their experiences, albeit still on background.

"I've heard from more people who have felt more willing to talk, at least on background, because... they felt the care with which we approach these issues."
— Carrie Johnson [09:51]

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Impact and Reactions

Response from Advocacy Groups Gabe Roth, executive director of Fix the Court, comments on the broader implications of Johnson's findings. He references a survey indicating that while most federal court staffers reported no wrongdoing, fewer than half believe there is encouragement to report misconduct, highlighting systemic fear of retaliation.

"Fewer than half of respondents believe workers are encouraged to report misconduct. People are still scared about retaliation."
— Gabe Roth [02:52]

Federal Courts' Internal Stance Since the initial report in March, Johnson notes that federal courts have claimed to implement improvements since the MeToo movement. However, the internal mechanisms for addressing complaints remain untrusted by court staff, as many fear that their grievances will not lead to meaningful action.

"The internal system of the judiciary is basically what these people have to rely on if they have a problem. And overwhelmingly, they don't trust it."
— Carrie Johnson [10:37]

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Current Status and Conclusions

Ongoing Investigation and Future Reporting Following the initial report, Johnson continued to receive tips and prepare subsequent stories, indicating a sustained issue within the federal judiciary. The lack of trust in internal judicial systems persists, emphasizing the need for external accountability and oversight.

"We got a lot of new tips, talked to a lot of new people, prepared another story running next week."
— Carrie Johnson [10:37]

Systemic Problems Across the Judiciary Johnson emphasizes that the problems are not confined to any specific group of judges. Abuses span across ages, genders, political appointments, and backgrounds, pointing to a systemic issue rooted in the significant power and lifetime tenure granted to federal judges.

"The source of the problem here appears to be that human beings are flawed. And when you give people that much power over everybody... flawed people can sometimes take advantage of that power."
— Carrie Johnson [12:36]

Final Reflections The episode concludes by reinforcing the critical role of journalists like Johnson in uncovering hidden abuses and the importance of maintaining accountability within powerful institutions like the federal judiciary.

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Notable Quotes

• "These conversations are among the most sensitive I've ever had." — Carrie Johnson [00:23]
• "The judge was everything. He had all the power." — Carrie Johnson [01:11]
• "This was people who had basically raised their hands and agreed to talk with us and then got really nervous." — Carrie Johnson [07:04]
• "We tried to reflect these people's experience and share it with the world." — Carrie Johnson [09:51]
• "Human beings are flawed. And when you give people that much power... flawed people can sometimes take advantage of that power." — Carrie Johnson [12:36]

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Conclusion

This episode of Consider This brings to the forefront the hidden struggles within the federal judiciary, highlighting the courage of journalists like Carrie Johnson in breaking the culture of fear. By uncovering these deep-seated issues, the podcast underscores the necessity for systemic reforms and greater transparency to ensure accountability and protect those in vulnerable positions within the legal system.

Transcript

[Scott Detrow]

Carrie Johnson knows the American justice system inside and out. Her very first job in journalism was at the Legal Times in 1996, then a decade at the Washington Post, and then 15 years as NPR's justice correspondent, decades covering the closed world of the federal judiciary. But even for a seasoned pro, trying to crack open that world can be tricky.

[Carrie Johnson]

I've been doing this a long time, and these conversations are among the most sensitive I've ever had.

[Scott Detrow]

For the past year and a half, Kerry has been investigating the power dynamics between federal judges and their staff, in particular their clerks.

[Carrie Johnson]

These judges are basically in control of the clerks lives, both during the point of the clerkship and then almost forever after because they're like a major reference anytime somebody wants another job in the legal industry. And they're supposed to be in the best of circumstances. They're supposed to be like lifelong mentors giving you advice about how much to work, the kinds of jobs to take, when to dial back, when to pay attention to your family. That's the best of times.

[Scott Detrow]

At worst, Kerry found a troubling pattern. Judges who harass, bully, or control their law clerks, often with little oversight or scrutiny.

[Carrie Johnson]

The judge was the HR Department. The judge was my boss. The judge was a colleague. The judge was everything. He had all the power.

[Scott Detrow]

This is one former law clerk who worked for a federal judge in Alaska a few years ago.

[Carrie Johnson]

It started immediately, the inappropriate conversations. There was a lot of talk, you know, about the judge's personal relationships, about sexual relationships.

[Scott Detrow]

That inappropriate behavior escalated into sexual harassment, and she alleges assault. Other clerks reported bullying, discrimination, or racially problematic comments from judges. And yet a culture of secrecy made many of these sources afraid to speak out. That voice you just heard wasn't actually the real voice of the law clerk from Alaska, though they are her words verbatim. We're using a voice actor because she was too afraid to talk into a microphone. How many former law clerks did you talk to for these stories?

[Carrie Johnson]

More than 50 current and former law clerks to federal judges and some other people who currently work or used to work in other jobs in the federal courts.

[Scott Detrow]

And of that, more than 50, how many agreed to go on the record in one way or another?

[Carrie Johnson]

Two or three?

[Scott Detrow]

Consider this. Federal judges are appointed for life. They operate with little outside scrutiny or oversight. And a culture of secrecy in federal courts can deter whistleblowers from speaking out. So today for our weekly Reporter's Notebook series, Carrie Johnson takes us inside her investigation, the challenge of using anonymous sources to bring accountability to the courts. From npr, I'm Scott Detrow this message.

[Gabe Roth]

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[Scott Detrow]

Message comes from Viking committed to exploring the world in comfort. Journey through the heart of Europe on an elegant Viking longship with thoughtful service, destination focused dining and cultural enrichment on board and on shore. And every Viking voyage is all inclusive with no children and no casinos. Discover [e-mail] it's consider this from NPR Federal courts are currently at the epicenter of the legal fight over President Donald Trump's authority. Constitutional challenges to his executive orders and actions often first end up in front of one of the several hundred federal judges across the country. You need them to be as good as they can possibly be in a situation where they are sort of a focal point of a major national crisis and the bulwark of our democracy. So they need to get their affairs in order. This is Gabe Roth, executive director of Fix the Court, a group that fights for more accountability in federal courts. Earlier this year, a survey of federal court staffers suggested the vast majority had experienced no wrongdoing on the job. And yet another part of the survey was more troubling. Fewer than half of respondents believe workers are encouraged to report misconduct. People are still scared about retaliation. They're scared that if they report harassment or discrimination or other wrongful conduct that they're going to be retaliated against. This is exactly what Carrie Johnson found as she began to report on the power dynamics between federal judges and their law clerks. Almost none wanted to go on the record. So I wanted to talk with Kerry about how she wrestled with such a challenging story and what it told her about the inner workings of the federal judiciary.

[Carrie Johnson]

We started by asking people to share their experience. Reach out to us via email, and I went back and I reached Back out to, you know, dozens and dozens and dozens of people. And to start the conversation with them, I would say, do you think you want to talk on the record? Which to me means I'd use your name, use the information. Maybe we can go on tape sometime. Do you want to talk on background? Which would mean I would take the information, but I wouldn't use your name in any way or identifying characteristic. Or do you want to be totally off the record? Like, I'm going to take this information, but I really can't do anything with it. And the overwhelming majority of people with whom I spoke said, I need to be off the record. I'm so afraid. And they were so afraid when they were in the jobs. They were so afraid even years after they had these jobs. And so what happened was I wound up spending, I don't know, hundreds of hours talking to people and hearing about some of their most painful experiences. I cannot tell you how many of these people cried, men and women. And at the end I would ask them, do you think you might consider going on background with us eventually so I could share at least some of this information? And in a bunch of cases, some of them finally agreed to do that. But it was hard going.

[Scott Detrow]

So let's just talk for a moment about that period. When you are a reporter and you're trying to get somebody to go on the record or go on background, there's different extreme ends of this, right? And you are on this extreme end of like the most sensitive thing where you're trying to be really careful for their benefit and for your event. There's this other extreme where you're like, hey man, this story is airing in an hour. Do you want to comment or not? Because we're still doing it, right? When you're talking to people who professionally live in the world of news, maybe they've been sued, maybe there's some sort of controversy they're involved in, you have the facts anyway and you're just like, I need to know, right? And that's a very clear cut thing where it's like, it's transactional, there's a deadline.

[Carrie Johnson]

This is not that this was a different circumstance. This was people who had basically raised their hands and agreed to talk with us and then got really nervous about it in a lot of respects. And you know, they told us things ranging from experiences of sexual assault, people who had been surveilled or had papers thrown at them by their boss, to more insidious, like being compelled to drink on the job or drink with other Judges, or basically judges exerting control over where these people worked years after the clerkships ended. And so it was very sensitive for them. And I felt the need to honor and respect that at the same time. These are all lawyers, right? So they're extremely risk averse. They're very careful in their language. And I had to kind of manage that situation too.

[Scott Detrow]

What, in a situation like that do you feel like is your obligation to explain to somebody what it means to be part of a radio store? Like what it means to them, to their lives, to their career?

[Carrie Johnson]

I think this is hugely important. And it's different than most of the other kind of reporting that I do for, you know, a long time now, decades and decades, I've worked in Washington, in institutions where people have generally been confirmed by the U.S. senate and understand what the media does and have interacted with the media.

[Scott Detrow]

They're public figures.

[Carrie Johnson]

They're public figures, or at least quasi public figures. Right. They're people inside the Justice Department, the FBI, the Marshals Service, the courts, whatever.

[Scott Detrow]

And they generally know the rules and they know the trade offs.

[Carrie Johnson]

Absolutely, absolutely. And these are people. Most of the clerks I spoke with had maybe never before talked with a reporter and certainly not talked out of school as they thought in this way. Many of these people still talked about their judge, and that's what they said. Well, my judge. My judge put his hand on my knee. Oh, my goodness. And it was extra important for me to take care with them and to listen to them for as long as they wanted to talk, really, before even broaching the idea of whether they would talk on tape for the radio.

[Scott Detrow]

Let's get to that point then. You have now gotten enough people to talk to you on background. But we're radio reporters, we do broadcast stories. And you did something really interesting to get around that hurdle. You actually used voice actors.

[Carrie Johnson]

We did. We asked people if they would be comfortable with us recording the sound of their voice. We wouldn't use it on the radio or for broadcast, but we would find actors to basically say the same words verbatim with a sense of the emotion and a sense of, you know, what they brought to the table in terms of their voice and what they experienced.

[Scott Detrow]

This is a true compliment. You're kind of a crusty old school reporter.

[Carrie Johnson]

You know, I plead guilty.

[Scott Detrow]

Yeah, compliment. How did you feel about that approach?

[Carrie Johnson]

I felt that it was important to reflect some of the experiences of the people with whom I spoke because a lot of bad behavior is going on. Not every judge, maybe not even most judges, but the power imbalance here is so great that I felt committed to the idea that we try to reflect these people's experience and share it with the world. And in fact, since our first story ran, I've heard from more people who have felt more willing to talk, at least on background, because they've something they heard in that first story really struck a nerve with them. And also, I think they got a sense of the care with which we approach these issues.

[Scott Detrow]

Take us up to speed on what's happened since the story first came out in March. Then, like you said, you got a lot of new tips.

[Carrie Johnson]

We got a lot of new tips, talked to a lot of new people, prepared another story running next week. And since that time, the federal courts. The federal courts basically say they've done a lot since the MeToo movement to improve the internal systems, because basically the courts police themselves, okay? So if you have a complaint, you really can't sue, generally speaking, because the federal civil rights law at issue here doesn't apply to the federal courts. It's a different branch of government. And so the internal system of the judiciary is basically what these people have to rely on if they have a problem. And overwhelmingly, they don't trust it. They don't trust it because some judge down the hallway or some judge in the next building over might be hearing their complaint, and they're worried that they can't stay anonymous and that nothing really is gonna happen to the jud engaged in bad behavior or bullying.

[Scott Detrow]

You know, one of the things I sometimes think about as we talk about the federal courts is that it's always interesting to me that when a ruling comes out, it's framed as a federal judge ruled. And it's almost like the individual doesn't matter. It's the power of that position. A federal judge who oversees a federal courthouse has made a decision, and that's what matters. This is an example that, in fact, it often does matter who the specific people are in those roles.

[Carrie Johnson]

Well, you know, the interesting thing about this project is I heard complaints about all kinds of judges. Young judges and old judges, male judges and female judges, judges who are appointed by Democratic presidents, judges who are appointed by Republican presidents. And so I don't think we can say that any particular characteristic or group of characteristics is like, really the source of the problem here. The source of the problem here appears to be that human beings are flawed. And when you give people that much power over everybody in their chambers and lifetime tenure, flawed people can sometimes take advantage of that power.

[Scott Detrow]

That was NPR justice correspondent Carrie Johnson. This episode was produced by Monika Estatieva and Noah Caldwell. It was edited by Barry Hardyman and Adam Rainey. Our executive producer is Sami Yenigun. It's Consider this from npr. I'm Scott Detrow.

[Gabe Roth]

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