Sen. Graham's death shocked Washington. What will be his legacy?

Summary

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Consider This from NPR

Episode Title: Sen. Graham's death shocked Washington. What will be his legacy?
Date: July 12, 2026
Host: Don Gonyea
Guest: Jeff Flake, Former U.S. Senator (Arizona)
Duration: ~15 minutes

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Overview

This episode of "Consider This" from NPR dives into the sudden passing of South Carolina Republican Senator Lindsey Graham, examining the political legacy he leaves behind. Renowned for his transformation from a bipartisan dealmaker to a close confidant of Donald Trump, Graham's career spanned pivotal moments in American politics. Host Don Gonyea is joined by former colleague Senator Jeff Flake for a candid conversation, exploring Graham’s personality, shifting alliances, key Senate moments, and enduring impact on U.S. policy—particularly foreign affairs and judicial confirmation battles.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Graham's Personality and Senate Presence

• Anecdotes Illustrating His Character
  • Don Gonyea shares a personal story highlighting Graham's humor and sociability:

    “He was late. He was really late. And when he eventually arrived, he started saying, I apologize… he cuts me off and he goes, I apologize for not bringing liquor.” (03:34)

  • Jeff Flake adds:

    “It was endlessly hilarious when you're around Lindsay. And… he was always looking for people to have dinner with. Lindsay was always up for a dinner date. And he was just endlessly fun.” (04:09)

Lindsey Graham: Pre- and Post-Trump Era

• Navigating Political Transformation
  • Graham’s ability to adapt was a hallmark. Flake quotes former Senator Dirksen:

    “Everett Dirksen once said, 'I'm a man of unbending and fixed principles, the first of which is to be flexible at all times.' And that was Lindsey.” (05:06)

  • Once a “very big critic of President Trump,” Graham later “found a way to accommodate that,” actively seeking to influence Trump’s decisions:

    “He always wanted to be in the middle of it, and he always was.” (05:32)

The Trump Alignment Split

• Different Choices, Continued Friendship
  • Flake describes their divergent paths:

    “I certainly couldn't countenance being with the man and voting with him… But some chose to try to influence him. Lindsey was one of those, and I'm not going to fault that.” (06:01)

  • Though it "cost" Flake his Senate seat, he and Graham maintained mutual appreciation:

    “He knew where I was and he appreciated that. And I knew where he was and I appreciated that as well… we were still friends to the end.” (09:34)

Judiciary Committee and Kavanaugh Confirmation

• A Famous Senate Flashpoint
  • Graham’s fierce defense of Kavanaugh stands out:

    “That's when he, Senator Graham, excoriated the Democrats… he was justified in that anger.” (07:01)

  • Despite public clashes, Graham and Flake found agreement behind closed doors:

    “As soon as I called for that [FBI] investigation… he came to me that night and said, 'this is the best thing to do. You did the right thing.'” (07:51)

  • Flake observes:

    “He could be very passionate, but be accommodating. And that's why he was such an effective legislator… he was an old time pol.” (07:54)

Graham’s Bipartisanship

• Support Across Party Lines
  • Flake notes Graham’s willingness to back Democratic nominees:

    “He had voted for President Obama's nominees to the court and for ambassadorships for cabinet positions. And he was very bipartisan in that way, in a way that he felt the Democrats weren't.” (07:54)

Foreign Policy and Graham’s Hawkishness

• Noted for International Advocacy
  • Graham’s global impact, including NATO and the Ukraine conflict, is highlighted:

    “He supported military intervention in many places around the world… most recently that included support for the war with Iran… he pushed Trump on financial and military support for Ukraine.” (08:27)

  • Flake’s memory from Turkey:

    “One of my real allies at that time was Lindsey Graham… Lindsey was as good as anybody at working those deals and working that issue.” (08:57)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Donald Trump (on Graham):

  “He was like a member of the family to me... he had a unique ability. He was able to deal with Democrats and Republicans.” (00:54)

• Jeff Flake (Graham’s old-school flexibility):

  “Everett Dirksen once said, ‘I'm a man of unbending and fixed principles, the first of which is to be flexible at all times.’ And that was Lindsey.” (05:06)

• On Kavanaugh Hearings:

  “He could be very passionate, but be accommodating. And that's why he was such an effective legislator, I should say.” (07:54)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00: Introduction and Graham's biography
• 00:54: Trump on Graham's ability to bridge divides
• 03:33: Jeff Flake joins; opening personal stories
• 05:06: Flake on Graham’s adaptability pre- and post-Trump
• 06:37: Deep dive on the Judiciary Committee and Kavanaugh
• 08:27: Graham's foreign policy impact
• 09:34: Discussion of Flake and Graham’s differing paths regarding Trump
• 10:04: Episode closes with reflections on Graham's legacy

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Tone and Takeaways

The conversation is warm, personal, and introspective—marked by respect for Graham’s complicated place in GOP politics and his rare blend of combativeness and camaraderie. The episode underscores his role as a bridge between eras and factions, an “old-time pol” whose personal charm and flexibility left a mingled legacy of controversy and effectiveness.

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Summary

Sen. Lindsey Graham’s career embodied the complexities of modern American politics: fiercely partisan yet quirkily sociable; critical of Trump, then a close adviser; passionate in public fights but flexible and forgiving in private. As tributes and analyses of his legacy pour in, former colleagues like Jeff Flake recall both the laughs and battles, showing why Graham remained a perennial focus in Washington to the very end.

Transcript

[Don Gonyea]

It's consider this where every day we go deep on one big news story. Today, the nation continues to react to the unexpected death of South Carolina Republican Senator Lindsey Graham. He died this weekend at 71 years of age of what his office described as a brief and sudden illness. Graham was a veteran politician, a dealmaker and military hawk. He's always been a staunch Republican, but in his early years he was also known for occasionally crossing the aisle. He vocally opposed President Trump's first run for office in 2015, only to become one of Trump's closest allies on Capitol Hill after Trump's victory. Trump spoke to NBC's Meet the Press on Sunday about the late senator.

[Donald Trump]

He was like a member of the family to me. It's very tough, actually. It's amazing, Mr. President. He was such an advocate. He was, you know, if he wanted to get something and, you know, he had a unique ability. He was able to deal with Democrats and Republicans. If I had a problem, a real problem, I wouldn't often ask. But if I had a problem with a Democrat, he could work it out.

[Don Gonyea]

Consider this. Lindsey Graham was a Republican of two eras, one before and the other after Donald Trump. How did he find a place for himself in both worlds? From npr, I'm Don Gonyea.

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[Don Gonyea]

It's Consider this from n. In addition to his long and storied career in the Senate, Senator Lindsey Graham also tried his hand once at a run for the Oval Office a little over a decade ago. In 2015, I spoke with Graham just before he launched a short lived campaign for president.

[Donald Trump]

I've got people who are fans, I got people who are critics, and I got people who say, I think I know him, but I really don't know him.

[Don Gonyea]

We're joined now by someone who really did know him, one of Senator Graham's former colleagues, Jeff Flake. And he was a Republican senator from Arizona. From 2013 to 2019, they served on the Senate Judiciary Committee together. Welcome, Senator.

[Jeff Flake]

Hey, thanks for having me on.

[Don Gonyea]

So I have a memory of my first meeting with Senator Graham. It was that interview from 2015 in Iowa. He was late. He was. He was really late. And when he eventually arrived, he started saying, I apologize, I apologize. And just as I was about to say, it's okay, we're used to that, he cuts me off and he goes, I apologize for not bringing liquor. And to me, that kind of encapsulates kind of who he was. Do you have a story like that?

[Jeff Flake]

Oh, he was funny. I got to know him first. Our lockers were next to each other in the House gym just before he got elected to the Senate. It was endlessly hilarious when you're around Lindsay. And he didn't have any family in town. He had a small family, just a sister that he raised, basically, and nobody in Washington. And he was always looking for people to have dinner with. Lindsay was always up for a dinner date. And he was just endlessly fun. Whether it's on codells overseas or on the Senate floor, just anywhere, he was fun.

[Don Gonyea]

Well, like everyone in politics these days, Lindsey Graham had a career that could be marked by before President Trump and after President Trump. He was initially very critical of Trump and then became a close ally. Tell me what those two eras looked like for Senator Graham.

[Jeff Flake]

Yeah, well, he always reminded me of, you know, the old time senators. Everett Dirksen once said, I'm a man of unbending and fixed principles, the first of which is to be flexible at all times. And that was Lindsey. Lindsey certainly was a very big critic of President Trump. He was one of my partners on the immigration reform, the Gang of Eight. When President Trump came along, he found a way to accommodate that. But always trying to influence President Trump in certain ways, and he certainly did. But Lindsey wanted to be in the middle of it, and he always was. And in many ways, in terms of our alliances abroad and what America should look like, he certainly moved in the right direction.

[Don Gonyea]

Republicans had a choice on Trump. When Trump became president, he made one decision, you made another. Talk about that.

[Jeff Flake]

Well, I certainly couldn't countenance being with the man and voting with him and supporting some of his policies and condoning some of his behavior. But some chose to try to Influence him. Lindsey was one of those, and I'm not going to fault that. And I think he did have influence. I worked with him in the Senate before and after I worked with him when I was ambassador. He would often call, and he was always pushing the right direction there. So I think that he chose to try to have influence where he could, and I'm glad that some people did.

[Don Gonyea]

You served with Senator Graham on the Senate Judiciary Committee, perhaps most famously during the confirmation hearing of Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh, who faced sexual misconduct allegations at the time. Senator Graham vociferously defended Justice Kavanaugh in those hearings. What do you remember seated near him in that committee chamber?

[Jeff Flake]

I remember that well, that's when he, Senator Graham, excoriated the Democrats for coming forward with this allegation when they knew of it before, and he was justified in that anger. I felt strongly that we needed an FBI investigation. I thought that whether or not Judge Kavanaugh moved on to become Justice Kavanaugh, it was the right thing to do. Senator Graham disagreed with me vehemently, and some of his comments toward Republicans were directed at me. As soon as I called for that investigation, we agreed to it. He came to me that night and said, this is the best thing to do. You did the right thing.

[Don Gonyea]

So he attacked you in the actual hearing.

[Jeff Flake]

He did.

[Don Gonyea]

But then afterward, you found common ground. He came around to where you were.

[Jeff Flake]

Yeah. In fact, we had dinner that night. And he said, this is the best thing. You did the right thing. After he had excoriated me in the committee and in private in the anteroom. But that was Lindsay. He could be very passionate, but be accommodating. And that's why he was such an effective legislator, I should say. I mean, Lindsey, like I said, he was an old time poll. He had voted for President Obama's nominees to the court and for ambassadorships for cabinet positions. And he was very bipartisan in that way, in a way that he felt the Democrats weren't. On that day.

[Don Gonyea]

Lindsey Graham did support American allies. He was very proud of that. He was very vocal about that. He supported military intervention in many places around the world during his time in office. Most recently that included support for the war with Iran. And we should note that he pushed Trump on financial and military support for Ukraine. Do you have a memory of him that really encapsulates how he thought of foreign policy?

[Jeff Flake]

Yes. When I was In Turkey, about 18 months of my time there were spent trying to get Sweden into NATO over Turkey's objection. And one of my real allies at that time was Lindsey Graham, because there were things that that Turkey wanted from the United States Congress. And Lindsey was as good as anybody at working those deals and working that issue.

[Don Gonyea]

Did you ever really confront your differences over Trump? He became an inside advisor to Trump and the rise of Trump, but I think it's fair to say, cost you your career in the Senate.

[Jeff Flake]

Oh, we talked about it. He knew where I was and he appreciated that. And I knew where he was and I appreciated that as well. So we, we, we were still friends to the end, and I, I just knew that he was always trying to move the country in the right direction. So, yeah, we, we talked about it, but remained very good friends throughout.

[Don Gonyea]

Jeff Flake is a former U.S. senator for Arizona. Senator, thank you.

[Jeff Flake]

Thank you.

[Don Gonyea]

This episode was produced by Henry Larson with audio engineering by Peter Elena. Our director is Megan Lim. It was edited by Michael Levitt. Our interim executive producer is Courtney Dornick. It's consider this from npr.

[Jeff Flake]

Don.

[Don Gonyea]

I'm don gonyea.

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